18 replies to this topic

[Nostradamus]

Well well here we go again. Another rant.

Now in case you haven't read or don't know where to find the rest of my rants, you can find them here:

 

Rant 1: http://chatte-georgi...e-wise-narusaku  Thanks to the lovely Chatte for posting my rant on her tumblr page. Keep in mind if you decide to read my first rant, that my grammar wasn't really that good back then. There are a lot of things I would like to change in it, but it's been posted for years. And a big chunk of it I wrote in a couple of hours and didn't actually check to see what I wrote.

Rant 2: http://www.narusaku....showtopic=13158 Thanks to the mods here for not deleting that one.

Rant 3: http://www.narusaku....showtopic=13492

 

 

I cannot believe I’m actually doing this. My fourth rant. Now I’ve read a lot of strange arguments, like Sakura really loves Sasuke because she tried to kill him and that is true love, Naruto was joking about Sakura being his girlfriend because chapter 632, Naruto hasn’t rejected Hinata therefore NH canon, Hinata has the same nindo as Naruto therefore it means that Hinata will be with Naruto and other stuff that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Now I’ve covered some most of these arguments in my previous rants, however I’m going to cover them again but this time I’m going to make them easier to understand because it seems that people either didn’t understood what I wrote or just didn’t read them.

 

Ok so let’s start with Sakura’s confession towards Naruto and the aftermath, even though I already covered this in my first rant. So we all know that Sakura went to Naruto confessed her love for him and after a couple of chapters Sai came and told Naruto the “truth” which was that Sakura plans to kill Sasuke because she “loves” him. But was that really her plan? Did she really want to kill Sasuke because she loves him? Well let’s find out shall we.

 

Now in order to do this we need to back in time a bit. To be more precise when Sai told Sakura that Naruto truly loves her and Sakura’s decision after that. You see in that moment she had two choices Sasuke or Naruto. She was literally at a crossroad and she had to decide whose side is she on. Sasuke’s side or Naruto’s side, left or right, on or off, 1 or 0. That’s it, there was no in between. And what do we see Sakura doing next? She goes to Naruto. Now here is where the argument that Sakura loves Sasuke so much and she wants to kill him because she doesn’t want to see him go into the darkness further, completely and utterly fails.

If Sakura’s plan was to kill Sasuke because she loves him, then why does she go to Naruto first? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Let’s say Naruto accepted Sakura’s confession and agreed to go to the village with her. Then how was she going to kill Sasuke? If she was going to the village with Naruto. It doesn’t make any sense Sakura’s actions contradict the argument.

 

If Sakura really wanted to kill Sasuke because she loves him so much she would’ve found a way to go to Sasuke in the first place and not Naruto.

 

Moving on to what Sai said in chapter 474 because he was the one that said Sakura loves Sasuke and wants to kill him. But is that really correct? I don’t know, let’s find out.  So taking a look at this chapter we find out that Kakashi is actually the one that says Sakura is going to kill Sasuke. Sai only thinks that is what she is going to do. Naruto is the one that says that Sakura loves Sasuke so much and she would never to that. And then Sai intervenes with “It’s because she loves him that she wants to do this bla bla bla” so in reality Sai’s statement is based on what Naruto says. And as we found out later on Naruto was stuck in the past and probably still is. Also just because Naruto says that Sakura loves Sasuke, doesn’t mean it’s true. It’s just Naruto being fixated with that. Yet another argument that completely and utterly fails.

 

Let’s move on to one of my favorite arguments. Naruto was joking about Sakura being his girlfriend because of what he said in chapter 632. Oh boy. In case you don’t know what Naruto said here is what he said “I’ll never never turn on Sakura-chan again…She’ll pulverize me!” so I’m going to honest with you this argument is stupid. Whoever came up with this, needs to get their cranium checked.

How can you say that the girlfriend comment is nullified because of 632?

Now in case you haven’t noticed this moment in 632 is done to further reinforce the parallel between Sakura and Kushina that was made in 631. It’s almost the exact face Naruto made when he meet his mother.

 

Moving on to the next argument. Naruto hasn’t rejected Hinata therefore NH is canon or still has a chance. While it’s true Naruto hasn’t rejected Hinata, you guys failed to see why he never rejected her.

 

You see if Naruto flat out rejected Hinata, that would be one of the dumbest moves he ever made. Actually it would one of the dumbest moves Kishimoto could ever make. It would be equivalent of Kishimoto taking a shotgun and then shooting himself in the foot. No writer in his right mind would ever do that. What a writer does is keep the drama going for as long as he/she can keep it. For example I don’t know how many of you read books, so I’m going to use an example that any of you can relate to. I want you guys to go to your TV and turn it on, find a TV show that has a love story in it. And then look at it. In it you’ll find the classical love story between a guy and a girl, but the writers never put the two of them together from day one. What they’ll do is insert some “love interests” in the show, to keep the drama going. And towards the end of the show the writers finally make the guy and the girl end up together.

 

And this is valid for any story regardless if it’s in a book or TV show or a manga or even a video game. Remember the media in which the story is delivered is irrelevant, what matters is the story.

The only time when a writer will put characters together in the beginning or middle of the story is when the romance plot is irreverent.

 

This is what Kishimoto is doing, he’s keep the drama going for a long as he can possible keep it. Imagine the drama as a rubber band. If you stretch that rubber band it will eventually break. However if you know the breaking point, you can stretch it and stretch it and stretch it until you reach that point and when you reached that point you let it go. That’s what Kishimoto is doing he’s stretching the drama until the very end of the story, possible the very last chapter.

 

This is why Kishimoto never made Naruto reject Hinata. In order to continue the drama going, to keep us guessing if Naruto will end up with Sakura or Hinata.

However throughout the story he gave a lot of hints, telling us what pairing will be the end game.

Now I’m sorry for saying this, but a lot of you are incapable of seeing these hints or just choose to ignore them.

 

This is what Hinata really is a “love interest” however Kishimoto failed with her in that department big time. You see Kishimoto created two love triangles.

You see in a love triangle, you have well three characters. A male character and two female characters or a female character and two male characters. And within these love triangles the characters are interested with one another. Take the first one for example; the male character will be interested in both female characters while the female characters will be interested in the male character. But he will only truly love one of them.

 

Now let’s take a look at the love triangles in Naruto.

The first one is the one between Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke, while the second one is Naruto, Sakura and Hinata.

In the first one Naruto loves Sakura; Sakura “loves” Sasuke; and well Sasuke doesn’t care.

In the second one Naruto loves Sakura; Sakura loves Naruto; and Hinata “loves” Naruto.

Now I’m going to say something that a lot of you won’t agree with me at all. Hinata doesn’t really love Naruto, and Sakura doesn’t really love Sasuke. I’m going to let that sink in for a moment.

……………………………………………………………………….

Has it sunken in yet? Good.

 

Yes you heard me right. Hinata doesn’t really love Naruto, and Sakura doesn’t really love Sasuke.

 

And I know you’re going to say “Well Nostradamus, you’re wrong because both girls confessed their love to the boys and it was the most beautiful thing in the world. Didn’t you see how broken Sakura was when Sasuke was about to leave. And Hinata’s confession towards Naruto is ever greater because she protected him and that proves just how much she loves him.” While you’re correct both girls confessed their love towards the boys. At the same time both girls are confusing what they feel as being true love.

 

Take an honest look at Hinata. Throughout the storyline we’ve seen the same feelings coming from her. And those feelings are hero worshipping and admiration. I said this so many times, that Naruto is Hinata’s Superman. Hinata was inspired by Naruto, he was the one that indirectly pushed her forward, he was the one indirectly that gave her strength. And because of these things, Hinata “developed feelings” for him. Hinata is nothing more than a fangirl. Hinata is Naruto’s fangirl. She thinks she loves him but in reality she doesn’t. She’s a confused girl.

 

Something similar can be said about Sakura. Sakura never truly loved Sasuke. She was just a fangirl. Sasuke was the cool guy that everyone girl wanted. With Sakura it’s a bit more complicated but I went in more details in my first rant, check it out if you want to know.

Kishimoto didn’t really create two love triangles. He created what I like to call half love triangles.

 

In the first one Naruto loves Sakura; Sakura was Sasuke fangirl, Sakura eventually feel for Naruto; and Sasuke doesn’t show any interest in Sakura, actually in any girl.

In the second one Naruto loves Sakura; Sakura loves Naruto; Hinata worships Naruto; and Naruto views Hinata as a friend.

 

This is why Kishi failed with Hinata in the “love interest” department. Because Naruto never had a moment, where he sees Hinata as more than a friend. And the fact that Hinata doesn’t really love Naruto.

Kishimoto failed with his love triangles. Because he never created true love triangles to beginning with.

 

Moving on to another favorite argument that I’ve seen. Which is Hinata has the same nindo as Naruto. “To never give up” and therefore it must mean that NH is going to happen because she never gives up.

Oh boy. There’re two things wrong with that statement. First one is Hinata is a side character, and second one it seems most of you have no clue what it means to “never give up”.

 

Let me explain to you what to “never give up” means. It means you’re going to try to do something and possibly fail and then instead of “giving up” you try again. Probably you’re going to fail again and then you try again and again and again until you succeed. That’s what to “never give up” means. It means you try something over and over until it finally works/get it right.

 

Let me give you an example; let’s say you want to lose weight. You go to the gym, you run, exercise and you eat less. And you do this over and over until you lose weight, simple.

What you don’t do is go to the gym, exercise a bit and then go home and eat like a pig and say you’re never going to give up on losing weight and then you don’t even bother exercising anymore. Because that’s not how it works.

 

This is really the message that Kishimoto is trying to send to the audience. We try to do something and if we fail, we get up and try again. However this doesn’t mean we should take this as “religion” and apply it to everything in our lives and exaggerate with it. We have to be realistic about it.

 

Now here’s why this principle doesn’t apply to Hinata. Like I said she’s a side character and let’s be honest, what she wants doesn’t matter. But the real reason this doesn’t apply to her is because she never even tried. There was no trying to beginning with. She just came out of the blue with “I love you” in chapter 437. And I know we saw moments before that told us the viewers that Hinata is in “love” with Naruto. But in the Naruto universe she did nothing about it. And I’m sure you’re going to say “Well what about chapter 98?” again take an honest look at it. Naruto just happened to bump into Hinata. She wasn’t there because she actually wanted to talk to Naruto, to encourage him. In this entire storyline Hinata couldn’t be bothered with Naruto. She never tried to ease his pain, she never tried to be there for him, she never tried to help Naruto in achieving his dream, she never tried to help Naruto with Sasuke and list just goes on and on.

 

Let’s take a look at another argument. The parallel between Kushina and Sakura. Now I’m sure you all know that Kushina told Naruto to find a girl like her. Before chapter 631, there were a lot of people that kept arguing that Hinata is like Kushina, and Sakura is nothing alike and therefore NH is going to happen because it’s a parallel to Minato and Kushina. After that chapter things changed, the people that were saying Hinata is like Kushina started to say that Naruto is actually like Kushina, and therefore NS doesn’t make any sense and therefore NH canon. Oh boy.

 

Let me make this perfectly clear for all of you. Naruto is a combination between Minato and Kushina; he has traits from both of them. Just like you, yes you, have traits from both of your parents. The parallel between Kushina and Sakura that was confirmed by Minato himself still stands strong. No matter how many times someone compares Naruto to either Minato or Kushina.

 

Also something that I want to mention. The parallel between Kushina and Sakura is partially wrong. You see Sakura is not like Kushina. Kushina is like Sakura. And that’s because Kishi created Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke first, after that he created characters that are similar to those three. Characters like Tsunade, Orochimaru, Madara, Minato, Kushina, Rin, Obito etc. these characters are actually based on the original three. It’s just a small detail.

 

Oh I almost forgot one thing I want to mention about Hinata and the whole “to never give up”. In chapter 662 we saw both girls rushing towards Naruto. Here’s the thing with Hinata, she ran towards Naruto and I have no clue how, she smacked her face into the ground and guess what she does. She asks Neji to protect Naruto, while remaining on the ground. Where did her nindo go? You know the one that she stole from Naruto word for word. She asks a dead guy to protect Naruto, and then she just even try to get up. So much for Hinata never giving up.

 

Shall we take a look at another argument? Let’s do it. Recently we saw Madara finally creating his dream world. And within this dream world, we saw the dreams of a couple of people. We saw Hinata sitting on a bench together with Naruto in a romantic way. I’ve seen a lot of people using this as proof that NH is going to happen. Now I’m sorry for bursting your bubble but that’s not going to happen. It seems a lot of you missed something crucial from that chapter. Almost all of those dreams are impossible or implausible. For example Kiba being Hokage, impossible. Lee defeating Naruto and Neji, and winning Sakura’s love, impossible. And the list goes on. None of those dreams are possible or plausible. What that chapter actually shows is that NH is never going to happen in the real world. Since I’m talking about this chapter, there’s something else I want to mention. In this chapter we see again just how selfish Hinata really is. We see that she only cares about what she wants and doesn’t care what Naruto wants at all. And there’s a good reason I say this. Take a look at Tsunade’s dream, we see her and Dan together, and Dan’s the Hokage (remember Dan wanted to be Hokage). Now take a look at Hinata’s dream, do you see Naruto as the Hokage? No of course not, because she just care about his dreams.

It’s always about want she wants.

 

Another argument that I’ve heard is Naruto would be such a jerk if he doesn’t love Hinata back. What about Hinata’s feelings? Well I’m sorry to say this but I don’t know if you’ve noticed this but Naruto and Sakura don’t care about Hinata or her feelings. Two examples in chapter 450 Sakura hugs Naruto in a romantic way right in front of Hinata, after Sakura herself discovered that Hinata has feelings for Naruto. Sakura doesn’t care about Hinata. Another example chapter 631 Naruto himself calls Sakura his girlfriend, and Hinata is literally three meters from them. Naruto doesn’t care about Hinata’s feelings.

 

In the end there are two things I want to mention, well actually three.

 

First of all, do not think for a second that Kishi can’t and won’t end the story with whatever pairing he wants. He is the writer and can do anything with his story. However that being said, he’s been giving us hints that basically tells us exactly what the end pairing is going to be. And I know a lot of you won’t be happy to hear this, but the end pairing is Naruto and Sakura.

 

Secondly the fact of the matter is this. Naruhina and Sasusaku have always been fanfiction pairings. These are pairings that the fans can enjoy. They can make their own story, post it on the internet, and do whatever they want. The fans can write their own story and have the characters act the way they want. But at the end of the day Naruhina and Sasusaku are fanfiction pairings. Something the fans can have fun with.

 

And last but not least, but probably the most important one. Don’t stop listening to what other people say, hell don’t even listen to me. But listen to the next part, read the manga because that’s Kishi’s story. Read it by buying the volumes or read it online whatever it’s your choice. But read it and when you do read it, forget that you like Naruhina or Narusaku or Hinata or Sasuke or any character. Read it for what the story really is. Only then you’ll understand what’s really going on, you’ll see the retcons, you’ll see what character is development and what character isn’t etc. Only then you’ll realize.

 

And for God’s sake, stop mixing the anime with the manga. Stop saying that Kishi is the created of the anime as well. He’s the writer of the Naruto manga, the anime is a done by someone else.

The anime is an adaptation of the manga.

[Iwantbuns]

*applause* I couldn't have said it any better myself 

[Illnevergiveup3]

Bravo .

[Nostradamus]

*applause* I couldn't have said it any better myself 

Bravo .

Thank You.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Thank You.

you Austrailian ?

[Nostradamus]

you Austrailian ?

No, that's not even close. What gave you the impression that I'm Australian?

[Illnevergiveup3]

No, that's not even close. What gave you the impression that I'm Australian?

cause I seen you use the word mate a lot ...

[Iwantbuns]

cause I seen you use the word mate a lot ...

 

That doesn't necessarily make someone Australian... XD

[Illnevergiveup3]

 
That doesn't necessarily make someone Australian... XD

sorry if I sound like I'm using stereotypes , but I associate the word mate with Australians .

[narusaku256]

No, that's not even close. What gave you the impression that I'm Australian?

He's an assassin and belongs to the free mason community...

[Nate River]

I cannot believe I’m actually doing this. My fourth rant. Now I’ve read a lot of strange arguments, like Sakura really loves Sasuke because she tried to kill him and that is true love, Naruto was joking about Sakura being his girlfriend because chapter 632, Naruto hasn’t rejected Hinata therefore NH canon, Hinata has the same nindo as Naruto therefore it means that Hinata will be with Naruto and other stuff that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Now I’ve covered some most of these arguments in my previous rants, however I’m going to cover them again but this time I’m going to make them easier to understand because it seems that people either didn’t understood what I wrote or just didn’t read them.

Calling it a joke is meant to undermine the veracity of it, so I'd demand them to explain how that is so. The big trouble with this is NS trouble with 540, he could joke about Hinata or anyone else, but he doesn't. Why mention Sakura at all? He could mention anyone or no one. So what's the motivation for saying her? The best I can come up with is jerk her chain for it's own sake, not something he does to her.
 

Let’s move on to one of my favorite arguments. Naruto was joking about Sakura being his girlfriend because of what he said in chapter 632. Oh boy. In case you don’t know what Naruto said here is what he said “I’ll never never turn on Sakura-chan again…She’ll pulverize me!” so I’m going to honest with you this argument is stupid. Whoever came up with this, needs to get their cranium checked.
How can you say that the girlfriend comment is nullified because of 632?

This is ad hominem attack. Personally, I wouldn't use it. It comes down too, if Hinata is his love interest why not say so?
 

Now in case you haven’t noticed this moment in 632 is done to further reinforce the parallel between Sakura and Kushina that was made in 631. It’s almost the exact face Naruto made when he meet his mother.

The only parallel that is less subtle is Minato-Naruto. To me, this is the most damning. His relationship with Sakura is designed to mirror Minato/Kushina. Kishimoto makes no attempt to hide this. Even Kushina's appearance is close to Sakura. He made longer and darker hair, tweaked the background a tad and bamo! new character.

As I keep saying, I've gotten kicks to the nuts that were more subtle.
 

Moving on to the next argument. Naruto hasn’t rejected Hinata therefore NH is canon or still has a chance. While it’s true Naruto hasn’t rejected Hinata, you guys failed to see why he never rejected her.

Naruto's considered dense and a knucklehead for a reason. For me, I'd have to be convinced he truly understands what Hinata feels for him. The confession is all there is and he should know it from that, but it's far from obvious that he actually does. If he doesn't then you never even get this far. There'd, in his mind, be nothing to reject.
 

You see if Naruto flat out rejected Hinata, that would be one of the dumbest moves he ever made. Actually it would one of the dumbest moves Kishimoto could ever make. It would be equivalent of Kishimoto taking a shotgun and then shooting himself in the foot. No writer in his right mind would ever do that. What a writer does is keep the drama going for as long as he/she can keep it. For example I don’t know how many of you read books, so I’m going to use an example that any of you can relate to. I want you guys to go to your TV and turn it on, find a TV show that has a love story in it. And then look at it. In it you’ll find the classical love story between a guy and a girl, but the writers never put the two of them together from day one. What they’ll do is insert some “love interests” in the show, to keep the drama going. And towards the end of the show the writers finally make the guy and the girl end up together.

I don't know about a writer, not a publisher or editor that's a different story. Yes, you'd want to milk it but not at the expense of characters or the story, and I think, you can argue Kishimoto has reached that point.
 
 

Now I’m going to say something that a lot of you won’t agree with me at all. Hinata doesn’t really love Naruto, and Sakura doesn’t really love Sasuke. I’m going to let that sink in for a moment.

I'm willing to say at this point, I think she does. It just doesn't matter. I have found it strange though, that given that this is case, why her goals/desires are always defined a step down from an actual relationship. It's always things that can be achieved whether or not the enter in a romantic relationship.
 

Take an honest look at Hinata. Throughout the storyline we’ve seen the same feelings coming from her. And those feelings are hero worshipping and admiration. I said this so many times, that Naruto is Hinata’s Superman. Hinata was inspired by Naruto, he was the one that indirectly pushed her forward, he was the one indirectly that gave her strength. And because of these things, Hinata “developed feelings” for him. Hinata is nothing more than a fangirl. Hinata is Naruto’s fangirl. She thinks she loves him but in reality she doesn’t. She’s a confused girl.

I have a hard time looking at her IS dream and seeing it as just admiration and hero worship.
 

This is why Kishi failed with Hinata in the “love interest” department. Because Naruto never had a moment, where he sees Hinata as more than a friend. And the fact that Hinata doesn’t really love Naruto.
Kishimoto failed with his love triangles. Because he never created true love triangles to beginning with.

Yeah, and that's still an ongoing problem. I'll worry about NH when Naruto shows reciprocation. He never does.
 

Moving on to another favorite argument that I’ve seen. Which is Hinata has the same nindo as Naruto. “To never give up” and therefore it must mean that NH is going to happen because she never gives up.
Oh boy. There’re two things wrong with that statement. First one is Hinata is a side character, and second one it seems most of you have no clue what it means to “never give up”.
 
Let me explain to you what to “never give up” means. It means you’re going to try to do something and possibly fail and then instead of “giving up” you try again. Probably you’re going to fail again and then you try again and again and again until you succeed. That’s what to “never give up” means. It means you try something over and over until it finally works/get it right.

Given everything we have at this point, I'd ask so what if they have the same nindo? She borrowed it from hms and his character has moved far beyond that ideal at this point. I'd expect them to have the same nindo given where I think she got it.
 

Now here’s why this principle doesn’t apply to Hinata. Like I said she’s a side character and let’s be honest, what she wants doesn’t matter. But the real reason this doesn’t apply to her is because she never even tried. There was no trying to beginning with. She just came out of the blue with “I love you” in chapter 437. And I know we saw moments before that told us the viewers that Hinata is in “love” with Naruto. But in the Naruto universe she did nothing about it. And I’m sure you’re going to say “Well what about chapter 98?” again take an honest look at it. Naruto just happened to bump into Hinata. She wasn’t there because she actually wanted to talk to Naruto, to encourage him. In this entire storyline Hinata couldn’t be bothered with Naruto. She never tried to ease his pain, she never tried to be there for him, she never tried to help Naruto in achieving his dream, she never tried to help Naruto with Sasuke and list just goes on and on.

I think such things are why being shy is a character flaw, but I can't read that she "couldn't be bothered" because it makes it sound like she doesn't care when her problem is either she can't see it because (in part 1) she really doesn't know anything about him (my theory) or if she does she lacks the courage to do so.
 

Let’s take a look at another argument. The parallel between Kushina and Sakura. Now I’m sure you all know that Kushina told Naruto to find a girl like her. Before chapter 631, there were a lot of people that kept arguing that Hinata is like Kushina, and Sakura is nothing alike and therefore NH is going to happen because it’s a parallel to Minato and Kushina. After that chapter things changed, the people that were saying Hinata is like Kushina started to say that Naruto is actually like Kushina, and therefore NS doesn’t make any sense and therefore NH canon. Oh boy.

Yeah, that's a real hard one to take seriously.
 
 

Shall we take a look at another argument? Let’s do it. Recently we saw Madara finally creating his dream world. And within this dream world, we saw the dreams of a couple of people. We saw Hinata sitting on a bench together with Naruto in a romantic way. I’ve seen a lot of people using this as proof that NH is going to happen. Now I’m sorry for bursting your bubble but that’s not going to happen. It seems a lot of you missed something crucial from that chapter. Almost all of those dreams are impossible or implausible. For example Kiba being Hokage, impossible. Lee defeating Naruto and Neji, and winning Sakura’s love, impossible. And the list goes on. None of those dreams are possible or plausible. What that chapter actually shows is that NH is never going to happen in the real world. Since I’m talking about this chapter, there’s something else I want to mention. In this chapter we see again just how selfish Hinata really is. We see that she only cares about what she wants and doesn’t care what Naruto wants at all. And there’s a good reason I say this. Take a look at Tsunade’s dream, we see her and Dan together, and Dan’s the Hokage (remember Dan wanted to be Hokage). Now take a look at Hinata’s dream, do you see Naruto as the Hokage? No of course not, because she just care about his dreams.
It’s always about want she wants.

This simplest answer is that all it is is what it shows. It's her deep seated desire. I think it's a reach to say that it shows that its impossible just because other dreams are, but it's equally a reach to say it's proof of anything other than it is her personal deep seated desire.
 

Another argument that I’ve heard is Naruto would be such a jerk if he doesn’t love Hinata back. What about Hinata’s feelings? Well I’m sorry to say this but I don’t know if you’ve noticed this but Naruto and Sakura don’t care about Hinata or her feelings. Two examples in chapter 450 Sakura hugs Naruto in a romantic way right in front of Hinata, after Sakura herself discovered that Hinata has feelings for Naruto. Sakura doesn’t care about Hinata. Another example chapter 631 Naruto himself calls Sakura his girlfriend, and Hinata is literally three meters from them. Naruto doesn’t care about Hinata’s feelings.

I hate this. This rational is why people hate the nice guy trope. (a) He's an a**hole if he gets with Hinata and doesn't love her. (b) This is arguing that Hinata is owed Naruto's love and Sakura is owed Sasuke. In inverse of the nice guy trope and it sucks for the same reason. It'd also be bad writing to make call so people don't have to feel bad. I honestly don't think Hinata will be all that broken up about it and Sasuke won't care at all.

Uh, they care about Hinata. I can't make the reach that her hugging Naruto in Hinata's is meant to send a signal to the audience about how much they don't care about her or her feelings. You read to deep into this stuff.

[Illnevergiveup3]

He's an assassin and belongs to the free mason community...

who ?

[narusaku256]

who ?

Nostradamus

[dylanrivers10000]

remarkable

[Uzumaki9000]

You are right my friend. I've read all of your rants and you seem like one of the smartest Naruto/NaruSaku fan because you read the manga carefully and you used your brain to bring great thoughts of the chapters.

[Nostradamus]

First of all really sorry for the late reply. I was on vacation and I couldn't write a proper comment from where I was. The previous comments that I wrote in the last 3 weeks were done from a netbook with a qwertz layout which is stupid and horrible. I swear I needed 5 minutes before writing something.

However I did say I will reply so yeah here it is.

 

@Nate River

Calling it a joke is meant to undermine the veracity of it, so I'd demand them to explain how that is so. The big trouble with this is NS trouble with 540, he could joke about Hinata or anyone else, but he doesn't. Why mention Sakura at all? He could mention anyone or no one. So what's the motivation for saying her? The best I can come up with is jerk her chain for it's own sake, not something he does to her.

Personally I don't have a problem with 540. I see it was just another moment done for drama purposes.

As for why Naruto mentioned Sakura in 631, well that I don't know because Naruto saying that Sakura is his girlfriend or that he views her as his girlfriend is yet another giveaway to the end pairing. Again not a strong point for Kishi because once again he's way to obvious.

 

This is ad hominem attack. Personally, I wouldn't use it. It comes down too, if Hinata is his love interest why not say so?

To be honest I'm not really sure what you meant.
 

The only parallel that is less subtle is Minato-Naruto. To me, this is the most damning. His relationship with Sakura is designed to mirror Minato/Kushina. Kishimoto makes no attempt to hide this. Even Kushina's appearance is close to Sakura. He made longer and darker hair, tweaked the background a tad and bamo! new character.

As I keep saying, I've gotten kicks to the nuts that were more subtle.

 

When I saw Kushina for the first time, for a moment I was like "Wow that's Sakura from the future".

Kishi basically took Sakura's design and modify her a bit and we got Kushina.

 

 

Naruto's considered dense and a knucklehead for a reason. For me, I'd have to be convinced he truly understands what Hinata feels for him. The confession is all there is and he should know it from that, but it's far from obvious that he actually does. If he doesn't then you never even get this far. There'd, in his mind, be nothing to reject.

 

While that's true Naruto is dense and a knucklehead, even he should understand Hinata's feelings.

Now if does or doesn't is actually debatable.

 

 

I don't know about a writer, not a publisher or editor that's a different story. Yes, you'd want to milk it but not at the expense of characters or the story, and I think, you can argue Kishimoto has reached that point.

This is next part is not really for you, it's for everyone.

I've seen a couple of comments throughout the years that Kishi doesn't really know about the pairing wars and he's just doing his job.

Well I have to disagree with that statement. Do not think for one second that Kishi or his team or the people they're working for don't know about the pairing wars. That they don't know some fans like Naruto and Sakura together or Naruto and Hinata etc.

They know this and they're going to milk it until there's nothing left even it means destroying characters or the stroyline along the way.
 

 

I'm willing to say at this point, I think she does. It just doesn't matter. I have found it strange though, that given that this is case, why her goals/desires are always defined a step down from an actual relationship. It's always things that can be achieved whether or not the enter in a romantic relationship.

 

Agree to disagree. I still say she doesn't really love him and will maintain that until the very end.

As for the rest, I believe it's done to show the readers that Hinata is not really romantically in love with Naruto.

He just inspired her and now she sees him as a hero that can do no wrong. And what she wants is to walk with him.
 

 

I have a hard time looking at her IS dream and seeing it as just admiration and hero worship.

OK granted her dream shows more that admiration but I still maintain that she's a confused girl.

 

 

Yeah, and that's still an ongoing problem. I'll worry about NH when Naruto shows reciprocation. He never does.

 

Yeah he never did and most likely never will. So there's nothing to worry about.

 

Given everything we have at this point, I'd ask so what if they have the same nindo? She borrowed it from hms and his character has moved far beyond that ideal at this point. I'd expect them to have the same nindo given where I think she got it.

 

This argument that Hinata has the same nindo as Naruto, doesn't mean anything.

It's one of the most annoying arguments.

 

 

I think such things are why being shy is a character flaw, but I can't read that she "couldn't be bothered" because it makes it sound like she doesn't care when her problem is either she can't see it because (in part 1) she really doesn't know anything about him (my theory) or if she does she lacks the courage to do so.

I did write that in a way that made Hinata look like a horrible person. But the fact of the matter is that we never really saw Hinata caring about Naruto when he actually needed someone by his side. The closest we got was in part 1 when she gave him that cream. Apart from that I'm really struggling to think of another moment she helped him and doesn't say something about walking with him or other nonsense. Or the classical "Naruto-Kun".

 

 

Yeah, that's a real hard one to take seriously.

I can't take any argument that the NH fanbase makes seriously. I just can't. The more I read their arguments the more I think they're smoking something pretty powerful when reading the story.

 

 

This simplest answer is that all it is is what it shows. It's her deep seated desire. I think it's a reach to say that it shows that its impossible just because other dreams are, but it's equally a reach to say it's proof of anything other than it is her personal deep seated desire.

 

It may be her desire but it's still doesn't change the fact that those dreams are impossible and improbable.

 

 

I hate this. This rational is why people hate the nice guy trope. (a) He's an a**hole if he gets with Hinata and doesn't love her. (b) This is arguing that Hinata is owed Naruto's love and Sakura is owed Sasuke. In inverse of the nice guy trope and it sucks for the same reason. It'd also be bad writing to make call so people don't have to feel bad. I honestly don't think Hinata will be all that broken up about it and Sasuke won't care at all.

Uh, they care about Hinata. I can't make the reach that her hugging Naruto in Hinata's is meant to send a signal to the audience about how much they don't care about her or her feelings. You read to deep into this stuff.

Maybe, maybe not.

However now I realize that what I wrote it doesn't properly explain what I wanted to say.

When I said Sakura hugging Naruto in front of Hinata was done to show us that Sakura doesn't care about Hinata. What I actually meant was that Sakura doesn't really care if Hinata has feeling for Naruto as well. That's she's not going to stay idle and let Hinata have him just because she understood that Hinata loves Naruto. Even if she knows Hinata's feelings for Naruto; Sakura is going to "fight" for Naruto.

 

 

 

 

He's an assassin and belongs to the free mason community...

 

 

remarkable

 

In what way?

You are right my friend. I've read all of your rants and you seem like one of the smartest Naruto/NaruSaku fan because you read the manga carefully and you used your brain to bring great thoughts of the chapters.

Thanks.

Personally I don't see myself as the one of the smartest Naruto/Narusaku fans.

I see myself as someone who tries to understand things and make sense of them and not follow the rest.

Edited by Nostradamus, 06 August 2014 - 11:42 PM.

[BlazingDynamo]

Well well here we go again. Another rant.

Now in case you haven't read or don't know where to find the rest of my rants, you can find them here:

 

Rant 1: http://chatte-georgi...e-wise-narusaku  Thanks to the lovely Chatte for posting my rant on her tumblr page. Keep in mind if you decide to read my first rant, that my grammar wasn't really that good back then. There are a lot of things I would like to change in it, but it's been posted for years. And a big chunk of it I wrote in a couple of hours and didn't actually check to see what I wrote.

Rant 2: http://www.narusaku....showtopic=13158 Thanks to the mods here for not deleting that one.

Rant 3: http://www.narusaku....showtopic=13492

 

 

I cannot believe I’m actually doing this. My fourth rant. Now I’ve read a lot of strange arguments, like Sakura really loves Sasuke because she tried to kill him and that is true love, Naruto was joking about Sakura being his girlfriend because chapter 632, Naruto hasn’t rejected Hinata therefore NH canon, Hinata has the same nindo as Naruto therefore it means that Hinata will be with Naruto and other stuff that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Now I’ve covered some most of these arguments in my previous rants, however I’m going to cover them again but this time I’m going to make them easier to understand because it seems that people either didn’t understood what I wrote or just didn’t read them.

 

Ok so let’s start with Sakura’s confession towards Naruto and the aftermath, even though I already covered this in my first rant. So we all know that Sakura went to Naruto confessed her love for him and after a couple of chapters Sai came and told Naruto the “truth” which was that Sakura plans to kill Sasuke because she “loves” him. But was that really her plan? Did she really want to kill Sasuke because she loves him? Well let’s find out shall we.

 

Now in order to do this we need to back in time a bit. To be more precise when Sai told Sakura that Naruto truly loves her and Sakura’s decision after that. You see in that moment she had two choices Sasuke or Naruto. She was literally at a crossroad and she had to decide whose side is she on. Sasuke’s side or Naruto’s side, left or right, on or off, 1 or 0. That’s it, there was no in between. And what do we see Sakura doing next? She goes to Naruto. Now here is where the argument that Sakura loves Sasuke so much and she wants to kill him because she doesn’t want to see him go into the darkness further, completely and utterly fails.

If Sakura’s plan was to kill Sasuke because she loves him, then why does she go to Naruto first? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Let’s say Naruto accepted Sakura’s confession and agreed to go to the village with her. Then how was she going to kill Sasuke? If she was going to the village with Naruto. It doesn’t make any sense Sakura’s actions contradict the argument.

 

If Sakura really wanted to kill Sasuke because she loves him so much she would’ve found a way to go to Sasuke in the first place and not Naruto.

 

Moving on to what Sai said in chapter 474 because he was the one that said Sakura loves Sasuke and wants to kill him. But is that really correct? I don’t know, let’s find out.  So taking a look at this chapter we find out that Kakashi is actually the one that says Sakura is going to kill Sasuke. Sai only thinks that is what she is going to do. Naruto is the one that says that Sakura loves Sasuke so much and she would never to that. And then Sai intervenes with “It’s because she loves him that she wants to do this bla bla bla” so in reality Sai’s statement is based on what Naruto says. And as we found out later on Naruto was stuck in the past and probably still is. Also just because Naruto says that Sakura loves Sasuke, doesn’t mean it’s true. It’s just Naruto being fixated with that. Yet another argument that completely and utterly fails.

 

Let’s move on to one of my favorite arguments. Naruto was joking about Sakura being his girlfriend because of what he said in chapter 632. Oh boy. In case you don’t know what Naruto said here is what he said “I’ll never never turn on Sakura-chan again…She’ll pulverize me!” so I’m going to honest with you this argument is stupid. Whoever came up with this, needs to get their cranium checked.

How can you say that the girlfriend comment is nullified because of 632?

Now in case you haven’t noticed this moment in 632 is done to further reinforce the parallel between Sakura and Kushina that was made in 631. It’s almost the exact face Naruto made when he meet his mother.

 

Moving on to the next argument. Naruto hasn’t rejected Hinata therefore NH is canon or still has a chance. While it’s true Naruto hasn’t rejected Hinata, you guys failed to see why he never rejected her.

 

You see if Naruto flat out rejected Hinata, that would be one of the dumbest moves he ever made. Actually it would one of the dumbest moves Kishimoto could ever make. It would be equivalent of Kishimoto taking a shotgun and then shooting himself in the foot. No writer in his right mind would ever do that. What a writer does is keep the drama going for as long as he/she can keep it. For example I don’t know how many of you read books, so I’m going to use an example that any of you can relate to. I want you guys to go to your TV and turn it on, find a TV show that has a love story in it. And then look at it. In it you’ll find the classical love story between a guy and a girl, but the writers never put the two of them together from day one. What they’ll do is insert some “love interests” in the show, to keep the drama going. And towards the end of the show the writers finally make the guy and the girl end up together.

 

And this is valid for any story regardless if it’s in a book or TV show or a manga or even a video game. Remember the media in which the story is delivered is irrelevant, what matters is the story.

The only time when a writer will put characters together in the beginning or middle of the story is when the romance plot is irreverent.

 

This is what Kishimoto is doing, he’s keep the drama going for a long as he can possible keep it. Imagine the drama as a rubber band. If you stretch that rubber band it will eventually break. However if you know the breaking point, you can stretch it and stretch it and stretch it until you reach that point and when you reached that point you let it go. That’s what Kishimoto is doing he’s stretching the drama until the very end of the story, possible the very last chapter.

 

This is why Kishimoto never made Naruto reject Hinata. In order to continue the drama going, to keep us guessing if Naruto will end up with Sakura or Hinata.

However throughout the story he gave a lot of hints, telling us what pairing will be the end game.

Now I’m sorry for saying this, but a lot of you are incapable of seeing these hints or just choose to ignore them.

 

This is what Hinata really is a “love interest” however Kishimoto failed with her in that department big time. You see Kishimoto created two love triangles.

You see in a love triangle, you have well three characters. A male character and two female characters or a female character and two male characters. And within these love triangles the characters are interested with one another. Take the first one for example; the male character will be interested in both female characters while the female characters will be interested in the male character. But he will only truly love one of them.

 

Now let’s take a look at the love triangles in Naruto.

The first one is the one between Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke, while the second one is Naruto, Sakura and Hinata.

In the first one Naruto loves Sakura; Sakura “loves” Sasuke; and well Sasuke doesn’t care.

In the second one Naruto loves Sakura; Sakura loves Naruto; and Hinata “loves” Naruto.

Now I’m going to say something that a lot of you won’t agree with me at all. Hinata doesn’t really love Naruto, and Sakura doesn’t really love Sasuke. I’m going to let that sink in for a moment.

……………………………………………………………………….

Has it sunken in yet? Good.

 

Yes you heard me right. Hinata doesn’t really love Naruto, and Sakura doesn’t really love Sasuke.

 

And I know you’re going to say “Well Nostradamus, you’re wrong because both girls confessed their love to the boys and it was the most beautiful thing in the world. Didn’t you see how broken Sakura was when Sasuke was about to leave. And Hinata’s confession towards Naruto is ever greater because she protected him and that proves just how much she loves him.” While you’re correct both girls confessed their love towards the boys. At the same time both girls are confusing what they feel as being true love.

 

Take an honest look at Hinata. Throughout the storyline we’ve seen the same feelings coming from her. And those feelings are hero worshipping and admiration. I said this so many times, that Naruto is Hinata’s Superman. Hinata was inspired by Naruto, he was the one that indirectly pushed her forward, he was the one indirectly that gave her strength. And because of these things, Hinata “developed feelings” for him. Hinata is nothing more than a fangirl. Hinata is Naruto’s fangirl. She thinks she loves him but in reality she doesn’t. She’s a confused girl.

 

Something similar can be said about Sakura. Sakura never truly loved Sasuke. She was just a fangirl. Sasuke was the cool guy that everyone girl wanted. With Sakura it’s a bit more complicated but I went in more details in my first rant, check it out if you want to know.

Kishimoto didn’t really create two love triangles. He created what I like to call half love triangles.

 

In the first one Naruto loves Sakura; Sakura was Sasuke fangirl, Sakura eventually feel for Naruto; and Sasuke doesn’t show any interest in Sakura, actually in any girl.

In the second one Naruto loves Sakura; Sakura loves Naruto; Hinata worships Naruto; and Naruto views Hinata as a friend.

 

This is why Kishi failed with Hinata in the “love interest” department. Because Naruto never had a moment, where he sees Hinata as more than a friend. And the fact that Hinata doesn’t really love Naruto.

Kishimoto failed with his love triangles. Because he never created true love triangles to beginning with.

 

Moving on to another favorite argument that I’ve seen. Which is Hinata has the same nindo as Naruto. “To never give up” and therefore it must mean that NH is going to happen because she never gives up.

Oh boy. There’re two things wrong with that statement. First one is Hinata is a side character, and second one it seems most of you have no clue what it means to “never give up”.

 

Let me explain to you what to “never give up” means. It means you’re going to try to do something and possibly fail and then instead of “giving up” you try again. Probably you’re going to fail again and then you try again and again and again until you succeed. That’s what to “never give up” means. It means you try something over and over until it finally works/get it right.

 

Let me give you an example; let’s say you want to lose weight. You go to the gym, you run, exercise and you eat less. And you do this over and over until you lose weight, simple.

What you don’t do is go to the gym, exercise a bit and then go home and eat like a pig and say you’re never going to give up on losing weight and then you don’t even bother exercising anymore. Because that’s not how it works.

 

This is really the message that Kishimoto is trying to send to the audience. We try to do something and if we fail, we get up and try again. However this doesn’t mean we should take this as “religion” and apply it to everything in our lives and exaggerate with it. We have to be realistic about it.

 

Now here’s why this principle doesn’t apply to Hinata. Like I said she’s a side character and let’s be honest, what she wants doesn’t matter. But the real reason this doesn’t apply to her is because she never even tried. There was no trying to beginning with. She just came out of the blue with “I love you” in chapter 437. And I know we saw moments before that told us the viewers that Hinata is in “love” with Naruto. But in the Naruto universe she did nothing about it. And I’m sure you’re going to say “Well what about chapter 98?” again take an honest look at it. Naruto just happened to bump into Hinata. She wasn’t there because she actually wanted to talk to Naruto, to encourage him. In this entire storyline Hinata couldn’t be bothered with Naruto. She never tried to ease his pain, she never tried to be there for him, she never tried to help Naruto in achieving his dream, she never tried to help Naruto with Sasuke and list just goes on and on.

 

Let’s take a look at another argument. The parallel between Kushina and Sakura. Now I’m sure you all know that Kushina told Naruto to find a girl like her. Before chapter 631, there were a lot of people that kept arguing that Hinata is like Kushina, and Sakura is nothing alike and therefore NH is going to happen because it’s a parallel to Minato and Kushina. After that chapter things changed, the people that were saying Hinata is like Kushina started to say that Naruto is actually like Kushina, and therefore NS doesn’t make any sense and therefore NH canon. Oh boy.

 

Let me make this perfectly clear for all of you. Naruto is a combination between Minato and Kushina; he has traits from both of them. Just like you, yes you, have traits from both of your parents. The parallel between Kushina and Sakura that was confirmed by Minato himself still stands strong. No matter how many times someone compares Naruto to either Minato or Kushina.

 

Also something that I want to mention. The parallel between Kushina and Sakura is partially wrong. You see Sakura is not like Kushina. Kushina is like Sakura. And that’s because Kishi created Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke first, after that he created characters that are similar to those three. Characters like Tsunade, Orochimaru, Madara, Minato, Kushina, Rin, Obito etc. these characters are actually based on the original three. It’s just a small detail.

 

Oh I almost forgot one thing I want to mention about Hinata and the whole “to never give up”. In chapter 662 we saw both girls rushing towards Naruto. Here’s the thing with Hinata, she ran towards Naruto and I have no clue how, she smacked her face into the ground and guess what she does. She asks Neji to protect Naruto, while remaining on the ground. Where did her nindo go? You know the one that she stole from Naruto word for word. She asks a dead guy to protect Naruto, and then she just even try to get up. So much for Hinata never giving up.

 

Shall we take a look at another argument? Let’s do it. Recently we saw Madara finally creating his dream world. And within this dream world, we saw the dreams of a couple of people. We saw Hinata sitting on a bench together with Naruto in a romantic way. I’ve seen a lot of people using this as proof that NH is going to happen. Now I’m sorry for bursting your bubble but that’s not going to happen. It seems a lot of you missed something crucial from that chapter. Almost all of those dreams are impossible or implausible. For example Kiba being Hokage, impossible. Lee defeating Naruto and Neji, and winning Sakura’s love, impossible. And the list goes on. None of those dreams are possible or plausible. What that chapter actually shows is that NH is never going to happen in the real world. Since I’m talking about this chapter, there’s something else I want to mention. In this chapter we see again just how selfish Hinata really is. We see that she only cares about what she wants and doesn’t care what Naruto wants at all. And there’s a good reason I say this. Take a look at Tsunade’s dream, we see her and Dan together, and Dan’s the Hokage (remember Dan wanted to be Hokage). Now take a look at Hinata’s dream, do you see Naruto as the Hokage? No of course not, because she just care about his dreams.

It’s always about want she wants.

 

Another argument that I’ve heard is Naruto would be such a jerk if he doesn’t love Hinata back. What about Hinata’s feelings? Well I’m sorry to say this but I don’t know if you’ve noticed this but Naruto and Sakura don’t care about Hinata or her feelings. Two examples in chapter 450 Sakura hugs Naruto in a romantic way right in front of Hinata, after Sakura herself discovered that Hinata has feelings for Naruto. Sakura doesn’t care about Hinata. Another example chapter 631 Naruto himself calls Sakura his girlfriend, and Hinata is literally three meters from them. Naruto doesn’t care about Hinata’s feelings.

 

In the end there are two things I want to mention, well actually three.

 

First of all, do not think for a second that Kishi can’t and won’t end the story with whatever pairing he wants. He is the writer and can do anything with his story. However that being said, he’s been giving us hints that basically tells us exactly what the end pairing is going to be. And I know a lot of you won’t be happy to hear this, but the end pairing is Naruto and Sakura.

 

Secondly the fact of the matter is this. Naruhina and Sasusaku have always been fanfiction pairings. These are pairings that the fans can enjoy. They can make their own story, post it on the internet, and do whatever they want. The fans can write their own story and have the characters act the way they want. But at the end of the day Naruhina and Sasusaku are fanfiction pairings. Something the fans can have fun with.

 

And last but not least, but probably the most important one. Don’t stop listening to what other people say, hell don’t even listen to me. But listen to the next part, read the manga because that’s Kishi’s story. Read it by buying the volumes or read it online whatever it’s your choice. But read it and when you do read it, forget that you like Naruhina or Narusaku or Hinata or Sasuke or any character. Read it for what the story really is. Only then you’ll understand what’s really going on, you’ll see the retcons, you’ll see what character is development and what character isn’t etc. Only then you’ll realize.

 

And for God’s sake, stop mixing the anime with the manga. Stop saying that Kishi is the created of the anime as well. He’s the writer of the Naruto manga, the anime is a done by someone else.

The anime is an adaptation of the manga.

There's no point in arguing against NH and SS fans if they take their pairings too seriously basically its like 2 vs 1 pairing

Edited by BlazingDynamo, 07 August 2014 - 01:08 AM.

[Nostradamus]

There's no point in arguing against NH and SS fans if they take their pairings too seriously basically its like 2 vs 1 pairing

I stopped debating with them along time ago. I just write these rants post them and let the hate begin.

I do read what they have to say but I won't respond to them. However I will respond to the NS fans.

[BlazingDynamo]

I stopped debating with them along time ago. I just write these rants post them and let the hate begin.

I do read what they have to say but I won't respond to them. However I will respond to the NS fans.

Well that's good their always assuming which is why they think their better than us.