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kage'e shoujo

Member Since 16 Dec 2008
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In Topic: *The* Bleach Discussion Thread

08 April 2009 - 04:13 PM

Thanks for that well-thought out post, Miss Soupy! I'll post a few thoughts on some of the things you posted when I have more time. Right now, I'm just "whaaaat theee heeeell?" regarding this latest chapter and need all the brain cells I can spare.

AND I have seen that poster True! Matsumoto! Damn, that hint of garter just... sfdjskfjapisfh!

In Topic: Kakashi Gaiden

05 April 2009 - 06:19 AM

FINALLY. MINATO WILL BE ANIMATED!

And I've always liked to see how they voice Team Minato, hehe. I wonder if animation will make Obito more like Naruto or not.

Thanks for the info, Ani!

In Topic: *The* Bleach Discussion Thread

05 April 2009 - 06:17 AM

Sorry, Miss Soupy, this got long. Spoiler-tag so it doesn't affect normal manga discussions. happy.gif

QUOTE (Miss Soupy @ Apr 5 2009, 02:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not sure if Ishida really knew Ulquiorra was dead or not.

This isn't my computer, so I can't dig up the other translations I've found. MangaHelper's Cnet translates Ishida's line as this, though:

QUOTE
Ishida: ...That's enough. // ...Kurosaki.
[TN: The correct response is to go completely psycho and slice Ishida in half too. For the luls.]
Ishida: You've won this battle. // He may be an enemy... / ...but that is no reason to carve up his corpse... // You can stop now... // Kurosaki...

To Ishida, Ulquiorra was already dead. He probably didn't know that Ulquiorra had high regenerating capabilities (which is just weird, he saw him regenerate an arm in seconds, after all), probably didn't hear Ulquiorra tell Ichigo the only way to kill him and didn't know that as uncontrollable as Ichigo currently is, he still pretty much has a goal and that's killing Ulquiorra. Ishida saw the corpse-looking Ulquiorra and came to his own conclusions that Ichigo raising his sword is "carving up his corpse" instead of what we readers saw as the completion of the job. Ichigo, who is uncontrollable and had a goal to complete, probably saw Ishida as an obstacle to his job completion and did what he did.

It's true that Ryuuken told Ishida the way to properly kill a Hollow, but... Ishida's one of my favorites and all (the humans are my favorites), but Kubo seriously messed his characterization up, so if he somehow forgot this little info, I wouldn't be surprised. His interaction with Mayuri in HM... Man, was I cringing.

QUOTE
Ichigo has yet to kill any of the arrancar he has fought, and yet he still is able to advance.

But those cases are different from Ulquiorra because they don't have high regeneration capabilities. All Ichigo needed to do was beat them to a pulp, make sure they're so thoroughly beaten they won't get up any time soon and move forward. They're not a threat anymore. Ulquiorra is different because every time Ulquiorra is beaten, he regenerates and IS able to fight back, as this current chapter has shown us. Being merciful, letting the enemy live, would be stupid because letting Ulquiorra live means letting him regenerate to be a threat again. Unlike the others, Ulquiorra can fight and fight and fight, which is why killing is the way if they want to get away from him.

QUOTE
I don't see Ichigo being too kind-hearted, but rather that he has had a bad idea of the powerful levels of the espada. He was constantly trying to hold himself back, because he thought them weaker than they actually were, and I think lack of understanding of this power difference has been his downfall more than anything.

I'm pretty sure Ichigo knows exactly how powerful the Arrancar/Espada are. HM-Ichigo is different from SS-Ichigo when he was still cocky and thought he could seriously beat Byakuya just because he has an unusual reiatsu power level. He saw how powerful Grimmjow was, what Yammy and Ulquiorra were capable of, and considering his last moments before leaving for HM, he knows how much of a suicidal mission it was. He doesn't look like a man underestimating his opponents at all.

His constant holding back has always read as pacing to me and not underestimation. And given how he was all, "I'll beat GJ, Ulquiorra and Aizen and bring everyone back with me!" speech, it makes sense. He knows the odds because he's done it before at SS. And unlike SS, there is a slim-to-none chance of HM-dwellers rallying to his cause. He needs all the energy he can and going all out every chance he has is not the way to do that.

Considering the fact that there are no breaks, I'd say it hasn't been a day since they entered HM. Orihime's been there for about two or three days and she's already suffered that much torture and went through a dozen emotional roller coasters. Ichigo might be a spirit but that doesn't mean he doesn't get tired. And he's fought so many already.

QUOTE
Well, I feel Orihime needs to be redeemed because of always using Ichigo as a crutch. Going by the sins theme, I'd say Orihime is Sloth. I know a lot of people are pretty annoyed by her behavior. But she is just doing what Ichigo always told her to do: believe in him, that he will win and save everyone. (I still REALLY want her to do something, please Kubo DX )

With her lines this chapter, ("Why did I rely completely on Kurosaki-kun?"), I'm positive we'll be seeing something from her soon. smile.gif Those are usually the cues, after all. Women in really shounen manga have the tendency to always be below the men in power-level, but with a dialogue like that, I'm hoping for more action too. And this is a woman with Universe-breaking powers. I'm really excited about it.

I can't see Orihime as Sloth, though, because she has been consistently trying to improve herself, which doesn't really fit the Sloth theme at all. I really don't see how she's been inactive in HM either because she's doing what she's capable of during the times when she can do something. She's crippled by her self-esteem issues to the point that she was surprised her friends came for her to Las Noches. And just as she started to hope that they can help her, that they came because they cared for her, she felt them go down one-by-one with Ulquiorra pushing that it's her fault they're dead (even as she helplessly says they're not dead). It's just a whole arc of breaking her so I can't see how she needs to be redeemed for that.

I really can't remember her using Ichigo as a crutch either. Would you mind pointing out examples?

QUOTE
Ulquiorra has changed since his first encounter where he thought everyone was trash. After only a few words with Orihime, he called her a strong woman. I think this battle has gone beyond just fighting because Aizen says so. Aizen told him to protect Las Noches, and he has done more damage to it than anything else.

Really? Hmm... I can't see it. Would you mind explaining how he's changed? From his words against Ichigo, it seems to me he's still bigoted against humans. He constantly reminded Ichigo how he was just human, how a human can't do this, can't beat that, etc., etc. After calling Orihime a strong woman, he then proceeded to try to completely break her, torturing her mentally and emotionally using her weaknesses and her friends. Damage to Las Noches fighting Ichigo is still protecting Las Noches because he's defending it from an enemy. So, essentially, he's still following Aizen's orders.

QUOTE
He could have killed Ichigo in the beginning, but he toyed with him for a long time, demanding to know why it was he kept fighting. Ulquiorra is curious about them, but he hides it in his comments that no human can equal a hollow.

Toying with, demanding answers... these are exactly what he's been doing to Orihime ever since she entered his charge. From what I've seen, this is how Ulquiorra operates. He acts exactly like a bigot who knows nothing about the people he's bigoted against. He is curious but I don't think he's hiding them in his comments because his discussions with Orihime and Ichigo are full of questions already. He's openly showing his curiosity to the point of being mean regarding Orihime and her friends, constantly asking her how she thinks, being frustrated because he can't understand Ichigo's way of thinking, his consistent drive to fight even in a losing battle.

QUOTE
But Ichigo has somehow bridged the gap between them and came out stronger. Ulquiorra has no choice but to admit defeat. He gives up and even tells Ichigo to go ahead and kill him. He is an arrancar, what else would he expect but death, but he even agrees that Ichigo's actions are so hollow-like, showing no mercy.

I think it's strange that in one moment Ulquiorra seems to want to die, and in the next he uses his power to regenerate himself. It feels like to me it's not for himself, hopefully it will be cleared up.

Given that Ulquiorra thinks humans are trash and his tendency for vanity, I'm thinking his acceptance of Ichigo's hollow-like mercilessness is more for his benefit than Ichigo (apart from the textual confirmation that Ichigo's hollow has overtaken him). Ulquiorra's pretty proud. He was all, "I am the only Espada with this second transformation," and yet he was still beaten by a human. Human-turned-Hollow, but still someone who identifies as a human which is practically the same. His dialogue that Ichigo kill him sounds like a demand and considering how it echoed GJ's, I'm thinking that for his benefit than Ichigo's, too.

Demanding he be killed then changing his mind isn't really all that uncommon, though. Every one has self-preservation instincts. He saw a chance and decided to take a hit. Now, we'll see if having on less horn will affect Ichigo or not.

In Topic: *The* Bleach Discussion Thread

04 April 2009 - 01:54 PM

QUOTE (Miss Soupy @ Apr 4 2009, 05:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To go on and kill him after the fact is NOT like Ichigo at all, and Ishida knows that the real Ichigo would have had restraint.

Actually, after reading more specific translations, Ishida wasn't trying to stop Ichigo from killing Ulquiorra at all. Ishida thought Ulquiorra was already dead (he used the word corpse) and thought Ichigo using a sword against a dead enemy was out of line.

Not killing enemies, having mercy towards enemies, being friends with enemies are common shounen tropes, but if there's one thing the whole HM-arc has been doing to Ichigo, it's to show him that his method of being too kind-hearted in battle is a drawback, especially when most of his enemies won't hesitate a millisecond to completely obliterate him.

With Ulquiorra's extreme powers of regeneration, the only method to be free of him is to kill him. Even Ishida understood this. Unfortunately, he was not aware of Ulquiorra's regeneration capabilities and became an unwilling target of the uncontrolled Ichigo.

QUOTE
I think what Kubo has set up here is 3 of his characters needing redemption: Ulquiorra, Ichigo, and Orihime.

I'm interested to know what you think Orihime needs to be redeemed for. Ulquiorra is obvious—what hasn't he done that doesn't need redemption, and Ichigo with his rampage is a given. Orihime's sin is too vague for me. Pushing Ichigo to turn Hollow?

QUOTE
I'd really like to know the reason Ulquiorra decided to intervene, if either he saw an opening and took it, or he was paying Ishida back, or perhaps reacting to Orihime's pleading, I'm not sure.

I'm leaning on the former. He considers humans trash, I don't think he was paying Ishida back for anything, and he's shown more emotion in regards to Ichigo than his entire time with Orihime. He's just been beaten by trash, his defeat spells his inability to follow Aizen's command (and considering his loyalty, that's probably something), and there is a prime opening presented to him when his opponent turned his back and focused on someone else. It fits his character more, I think.

In Topic: Naruto 442

03 April 2009 - 02:14 PM

I'm not gonna touch your comments on Hinata because we see her too differently to come to a discussion but being insecure doesn't really equate to being useless. Hinata's problem, besides the timidity ingrained within her by the societal expectations her rank and status suffocated her with, was her tendency to give up, which she's been striving to change from the moment we see her. Sakura, ever since, has been as determined and stubborn as Naruto. Therein lies the difference.

QUOTE (Sakura Blossoms @ Apr 3 2009, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then I think that I'm giving Kishimoto way more credit where Sakura's character is concerned then, because I want to believe that he has given her a strong core of belief in herself, and won't make her feel like a completely insecure, useless person to Naruto.

Again, let me just say: insecure != useless. It doesn't really go hand in hand with not having a core of belief in themselves either. I mean, Naruto? Naruto's a pretty insecure person himself. I doubt you can say he has a lack of belief in himself, don't you?

Being insecure means a person lacks confidence in certain areas of themselves. For Sakura, it used to be different things (her forehead, being inferior to Ino, not being able to help Sasuke pre-timeskip). Right now, it's that her capacity to help Naruto is limited. Inner Sakura should have been enough to let us know that Sakura has confidence in other areas that she knows she excels at. Her control, her intelligence. She works hard for these things and she's proud of what she accomplishes. Unlike Hinata who used to give up a lot, Sakura is exactly like Naruto in that she works harder on what she knows she's bad at. So I don't really see why her current sense of low self-worth is a bad thing when it's often been the prelude to great things from her.