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[Paradox Jast]

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I've kept a passing interest in this, mostly through others, though I'll admit I've pirated things to 'demo' them before purchasing the full thing. It doesn't just have to do with pirating though, a lot of this has to deal with P2P in general. The copyright enforcers (most notably the IFPI, RIAA, MPAA) have been trying to totally curb the use of P2P. Not just for the use of pirates, but by potentially cutting off internet access for offenders.

In essence, if they catch you watching something that is copyrighted, or transferring a file that is copyrighted, they can cut off your internets after three strikes. It doesn't matter if say... you have roomates, and one of them is a pirate but you're totally legit. You lose your connection just the same.

I know that most people these days are familiar with The Pirate Bay. Well the four guys that run it went to court, and were found guilty. The interesting thing is, that the head judge on the case was 'corrupt' as his interests were in line with those of the copyright industry. There is another link on the site I linked to above that has more details about the case (it's actually linked within the article).

Now as a result of that guilty verdict, something like 60% of all young adults between 18 and 30 are now members of the Pirate Party in Sweden. Nearly 50k people. That's enough to be the third largest party in the entire country. I think to be the 2nd, they need 70k. It's still a rather impressive number for a party that is only 3 years old.

In essence, I think their purpose is to promote more freedom on the internet, while various companies are wasting a lot of money trying to stop something that isn't going to. Piracy on the internet isn't what a lot of people seem to think it is. The true definition of piracy is making a profit from nothing - something that isn't yours. What we see from P2P and torrents is generally better referred to as 'leeching', at least from my point of view. Why? It's not always a lost sale. I'm not afraid to admit that I'm a leecher, pirate, whatever you want to call me. However- if I like something, be it a game, music, or whatever, I ALWAYS buy it. If you don't believe me I keep all my receipts in my gmail account and can prove it. Or better yet, show you a screenshot of all my accounts at Steam, GamersGate, Impulse, Direct2Drive, GoodOldGames, etc.

Even manga. Sure it helps that I work at a bookstore, but I own entire series now. I support the things I like.


Anyway, if they do get into the EU Parliament, and their movement starts spreading (freedom of information) then I wonder what that means for places like the US, where lobbyists from places like the RIAA have a stranglehold on our government.


On a side note, I think this is my longest post. Ever. It isn't even about Naruto. Oops?


Edit: Adding a link to an article about piracy, related to a game that some of you may or may not have heard of, called Demigod. I bought that game (didn't even pirate it) because I support Stardock's stance. I realize that many people have many, many differing views on piracy/leeching (again, call it what you will), but this offers an interesting perspective. Stardock CEO speaks on Demigod vs Piracy

Edited by Paradox Jast, 30 April 2009 - 09:40 PM.

[dl316bh]

In essence, I think their purpose is to promote more freedom on the internet

You're kidding right? There's too much freedom as it is. You can pretty much do anything you want on the internet and you will not be penalized. There were a bunch of people who watched a man commit suicide through a vidcam in a chatroom once; they were ****ing egging him on. Human beings who could smile at you on the street and have a pleasant conversation with, walking away thinking they were decent. The internet has really become a guilt free way to steal and unleash everyones inner scumbag. It's nice to think we as humans are better than that, but the truth of the matter is that we're not. If people can steal something and get away with it, most of them are damn sure going to do it. In the current economic climate we're in? Oh hell yeah.

Think about it; piracy has been around since way before the internet became public. People were modding consoles and selling pirated copies long before the internet became a big deal and a good deal of them were getting away with it. The companies didn't like this at all, but it was not as big a deal back then; though if you were pirating you needed to watch your back because the FBI didn't fool around. In those days stealing through these methods left a trail that they could find. The internet simply eliminated the physical aspect to the crime, which is part of why it's become almost impossible to stop through any current methods.

Now? It's widespread. P2P has become a method to get what you want entertainment-wise without having to pay. It's part of peoples grand sense of self entitlement; things should either be how they want it or they should be able to enjoy something even if they can't afford it. That's not how life works, but people who have grown up with the internet and such don't give a damn. They have a way to do it without prying eyes who can send them to jail over it. Cue industries losing a lot of money. The main reason people don't want restrictions on this sort of thing is for one reason, no matter how much most of them deny it; the free ride would end because the law would finally have caught up with the internet.

The problem is that people don't have much of a code of ethics. I'm personally fine with downloading old stuff. Let's face it, technology and time marches on. A lot of games are left in the dust and are nearly impossible to find. Not everything is sold forever. In some ways, the internet helps preserve history in that way. But that's a different story entirely. Brand spanking new movies and games are put up for download before they even leave theaters or shelves. Everyone thinks "oh, it's not that big a deal; I'm just one person, it won't make a difference". Everyone desperately tries to believe that in just about any case where they can do the right thing; it's called rationalization.

Things will never become as restricted as companies would like. This three strikes thing you mentioned? Never happen. There'd be no way to do it and there are too many ways to kill such a proposal before it even got before a judge. But I do believe that P2P needs to be curbed badly. It really is nothing more than stealing; the only difference is that there are no security guards to catch you and haul you away to jail.

Also, what to call this whole thing are technicalities that are mostly splitting hairs. Pirates, leechers; it's still stealing. There are no consequences; all that does is bring out the worst in us.

However- if I like something, be it a game, music, or whatever, I ALWAYS buy it.

Most people who say that on the internet are liars, but I'm going to take you at your word because I really do want to believe you.

Edited by dl316bh, 01 May 2009 - 01:16 AM.

[Paradox Jast]

Hm, some of what I said may have seemed to come across as sort of promoting piracy. I didn't intend it to be that way. Reading back over my post, I also probably should have remained more on topic in regards to the article I posted. Oh well.

I should also change what I meant by 'freedom on the internet' more or less over to 'adjusting distribution methods'. Copyright is both the number one protector for 'intellectual property', but also inhibits distribution of said property because of the manner of surveillance and distribution types needed. So I think their aims can more accurately be described as finding ways to promote P2P (or bittorrent, more specifically) while making distribution legit, cheaper, and faster.

Then another problem arises, specifically with the distributor. Do you worry about another middleman or do it yourself? I've read many horror stories about iTunes, many of which come from the artists themselves. I think Brad Wardell, the CEO for Stardock, had a few things to say here in reference to piracy and gaming. (mostly the first half of the article) I think it affects the other industries as well, and his statement/argument makes sense. (I purchased and own Demigod, btw... didn't even pirate it.) I figured I could take some screenshots to prove it, but then when I was resizing the image in Photoshop... it clicked. Anyone could just say 'Photoshopped'. So I'm kinda stuck on the 'how do I prove it?' part. I have the email confirming purchase, but unless you bought the game, you could say I'm lying too.

In regards to games, old games especially, I've been helping with a few of my game buddies to promote the site Good Old Games. I hadn't seen the site linked here in the game section, but was thinking about doing it. My only deterrent, if you could call it that, was that people here seem to be predominately console based gamers, so I didn't know if anyone would really care.

Annnnnyway, the main point I had originally tried to make was that there is a political party called the Pirate Party and it's proving to be mega successful so far in Sweden. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

[dl316bh]

To be honest, I myself probably came off a bit harshly. Honestly, I don't see torrenting as a bad thing. Like I said, I don't have problems in particular with downloading old games and stuff like that. It really does push a button or two in me, however, whenever I realize that brand spanking new movies or video games are torrented and subsequently downloaded. That's just so horribly, horribly wrong and it does affect more than some people are willing to admit; development studios are finding themselves in a position right now where every copy sold counts and some are even closing down.

The fact that the Pirates Bay guys champion that sort of behavior leaves me with no sympathy for them or anyone else who willingly partakes in stealing new things through the internet.

So I think their aims can more accurately be described as finding ways to promote P2P (or bittorrent, more specifically) while making distribution legit, cheaper, and faster.

A lot of companies seem to be trying to make an honest effort to break into that sort of thing. Video games have lately had things like Direct 2 Drive and the highly successful Steam. The music industry has also been giving an honest shot at it. Comic book publishers have been giving it thought too, despite not yet having come up with a real distribution model.

The hitch seems to be coming up with a decent way to do it. In the case of movies, they can't just forgo the theater to have it streamable at home. That'd likely put theaters out of business. Comic books have a similar problem. It's all rather complicated, it seems.

In regards to games, old games especially, I've been helping with a few of my game buddies to promote the site Good Old Games

I like that site quite a bit. I'm a bit in the dark about how it operates though. Such as if it has deals with the developers so that the devs get a cut, even if they ARE older games.

I have the email confirming purchase, but unless you bought the game, you could say I'm lying too.

Like I said, I'm taking you at your word and not accusing. I was just pointing out that a lot of people say that on the internet and most of them are lying.

Edited by dl316bh, 01 May 2009 - 03:36 AM.

[krisk]

To be honest, I myself probably came off a bit harshly. Honestly, I don't see torrenting as a bad thing. Like I said, I don't have problems in particular with downloading old games and stuff like that. It really does push a button or two in me, however, whenever I realize that brand spanking new movies or video games are torrented and subsequently downloaded. That's just so horribly, horribly wrong and it does affect more than some people are willing to admit; development studios are finding themselves in a position right now where every copy sold counts and some are even closing down.

Tbh here too, I was thinking if you'd been personally screwed by people who do this stuff excessively XD As if you work for a company out there somewhere, and you were here scaring off P2P users or something haha.

And to what you said, I agree, but to an extent. Personally, I much prefer to see a movie that's rich in animation/effects, movies that should be seen on the big screen ON the big screen. I just feel weird watching something that's made me buzz with excitement and anxiousness on a tiny laptop screen. It ruins the whole experience. That's why I stick to paying for a ticket I think is worthy of the 8 bucks I have to shell out.

But more recently, movies I pass watching in the theater, come later on DVD.. and I can't help but to watch that online. When I know the quality is almost perfect, the opportunity is really hard to pass by. And I say this with renting in mind. I'm not a big DVD buyer, so the next best thing is renting-- and recently that has just been horrible for me. BB here is charging ridiculous prices and frankly, I'm tired of having to pay 10 bucks for a week of having a movie when I'm just going to use ONE night to watch it. AND late fees?! Jeeeeeeeeez no thx.

Though that's the only time I do that stuff. Circumstances play a huge role for me here, so I can't seem to feel guilty at all XD Also, animu is something I'd rather not go out searching and paying for (especially without having seen it first; money wasted is always a downer) DVDs when I could just download available ones online. That and I hate dub, so pffff XD

Then comes music-- I admit, I feel somewhat guilty whilst using my p2p program, but I figure 'hey someone's payed for it!' That way it's not as bad, yeah? Lols oh and I'm prone to liking mixes moreso than full albums. So eh, I guess it's personal again.

Ehhh anyway, I don't exactly rave around having parties that I'm stealing hard-earned entertainment like this, but at the same time, I'd prefer it to stay this way.

I guess it's just me not having any experience in working for a corporation running on the public's money XD Or maybe keeping up with pop culture and knowing that people who work in A-List production are doing well, even with all this pirating being done (said lightly though XD).

[dl316bh]

Tbh here too, I was thinking if you'd been personally screwed by people who do this stuff excessively XD As if you work for a company out there somewhere, and you were here scaring off P2P users or something haha.

Nah. Trust me, if that were what I were doing, I'd have far better targets than a fandom forum in a corner of the internet. XD

I've seen and heard some horror stories about creators of things getting screwed over by this sort of thing. One comic creator I've heard of actually had a comic made that barely broke even, only to find that it was online on a P2P program and had a number of downloads equal to around quadruple what the comic itself sold. This is a guy who does truly work for a living and did get screwed over. Then there are game companies going out of business these days partly because they are lucky to make their money back despite the amount of gamers always increasing. I really, truly do not believe it's simply coincidence that several of these downward sales trends suddenly cropped up as high speed downloading and P2P programs became popular.

I have no real horse in this race, though I do hope to be a published author at some point. It simply honestly, truly bothers me. It's kind of an morals and ethics sort of thing.

But more recently, movies I pass watching in the theater, come later on DVD.. and I can't help but to watch that online. When I know the quality is almost perfect, the opportunity is really hard to pass by. And I say this with renting in mind

It's not a big deal to me once it is out of theaters. Most I see, however, carry an attitude like they're entitled to these things and that the very idea that they and their "free" internet should be cracked down upon is ludicrous. It's a frightening trend that seems only to increase as the ease of illegally downloading things increases proportionally. Those are the people that bother me, the ones who try to rationalize rampant thievery and believe they've done nothing wrong; checking something online every now and then is something anyone can hardly be criticized for, however. It's when it becomes a great amount that it's a big problem, of which it's been getting bigger.

BB here is charging ridiculous prices and frankly, I'm tired of having to pay 10 bucks for a week of having a movie when I'm just going to use ONE night to watch it. AND late fees?! Jeeeeeeeeez no thx.

Go to Blockbuster Online. They have a service you can sign up for where you'll be sent three films at a time, no limit on how many you can rent in a month, no late fee's and you're charged monthly. I've been using it for about a year and I've had no problems with it. It's helped me catch up my movie watching, in fact.

Edited by dl316bh, 01 May 2009 - 07:19 AM.

[krisk]

I've seen and heard some horror stories about creators of things getting screwed over by this sort of thing. One comic creator I've heard of actually had a comic made that barely broke even, only to find that it was online on a P2P program and had a number of downloads equal to around quadruple what the comic itself sold. This is a guy who does truly work for a living and did get screwed over. Then there are game companies going out of business these days partly because they are lucky to make their money back despite the amount of gamers always increasing. I really, truly do not believe it's simply coincidence that several of these downward sales trends suddenly cropped up as high speed downloading and P2P programs became popular.

I have no real horse in this race, though I do hope to be a published author at some point. It simply honestly, truly bothers me. It's kind of an morals and ethics sort of thing.

Ohh ouch :( sounds really tough, especially when it's dealing with upcoming producers such as this guy you're mentioning. Those who're still trying to make a name for themselves without the boost of having a corporation nametag to wave around...

Yea, I completely agree. I really don't plan on going into a wide distribution type of profession like the kind being discussed either, but I still feel squicked by the idea of getting what you want, without giving anything, at someone else's expense. :/

It's when it becomes a great amount that it's a big problem, of which it's been getting bigger.

Hnn, like an addiction I'd figure. While other addictions don't harm others but yourself, excessive piracy harms people you don't even know. What's worse, the rates at how many people it's affecting is much worse too.

Btw, I think I should state for you, mister secret government agent here I don't use torrents at all. XD NOT because I'm too lazy to download the plug-ins/players that go with it of course.. ONLY because it's just... it's wrong. Yeeeeah. XD

Go to Blockbuster Online. They have a service you can sign up for where you'll be sent three films at a time, no limit on how many you can rent in a month, no late fee's and you're charged monthly. I've been using it for about a year and I've had no problems with it. It's helped me catch up my movie watching, in fact.

Yeah! We had that for abit, but then my schedule filled up too much to continuously request movies. And that's what bugged me about the online Free Pass-- I was getting charged for months when I hardly had time to watch movies D:

Although, summer's coming up and that's leaving me with alot more time slots. So maybe I should think about getting back into it! BB and maybe even GameFly too. XD

[dl316bh]

Hnn, like an addiction I'd figure.

That's arguably the most accurate description of the trend I've seen. In some ways, it is something like an addiction. Once some people realize they can enjoy stuff for free, with little to no restrictions, are they really going to want to go back to actually paying? Nope. So they download more and more and more...

for you, mister secret government agent here

Oh man Krisk, I wish. Getting a hefty government salary? Hell yes, where do I sign up? XD

Although, summer's coming up and that's leaving me with alot more time slots. So maybe I should think about getting back into it! BB and maybe even GameFly too. XD

It's definitely a good way to pass the hot summer days away. Some days it's nice to just relax and watch a couple action movies with huge explosions on rentals that came in the mail. No hassle, no fuss, just men with bigger arms than I'll ever have and guns to match all creating havoc and explosions and usually getting the girl.

Gamefly's been pretty much the same for me. I've actually been catching up on games I've missed as well. I only got an X-Box 360 recently, so there's been some catching up to do. Usually once I finish a game I tend to review it on my blog for fun; helps keep the writing skills sharp.

Edited by dl316bh, 01 May 2009 - 07:55 AM.

[Codus N]

Being honest, piracy is a bad thing but it is actually good for people who live in developing countries, & besides shouldn't everyone have an equal chance to know something cool? & plus, if there's high demand for something the providers will eventually buy it, therefore, they will still get some money (although I'm not so sure about this one)

[Sir Whirly]

Considering I am a bit socialist, share everything with everyone.

[Yakatsu]

VIKING PIRATES?!

IN MY EU PARLIAMENT?!

HECK YES, but seriously. It's not their fault. It IS a P-2-P server. They should be after the guys like RIP , the biggest ISO ripping group of the internet. Those are the ones who put stuff in their torrenting servers....or both. If they want to end this.

[True]

Well the times sure have changed now with the rise of the internet. It seems almost everyone has the ability to pirate since its quite an easy process. I remember before the use of the internet I would have my PS2 mod-chipped which allowed me to play games from foreign countries. Games that I could purchase for 1/8 of what they were selling in the United States. Same went for movies which I have albums full of. Nowadays not so much. Can't be bothered with opening up my 360 and adding firmware to it. I'm not much of a PC gamer (though if/when I decide to upgrade my laptop then we'll see) so I don't torrent games unless I'm feeling nostalgic and want to play an old one (and I'd still purchase those that offer multiplayer). Not a big movie buff so I don't collect DVDS, instead use Netflix which is only $9.99 a month.

The two things I do tend to pirate are music and anime. Music because instead of paying $1 for a song that I'll most likely not listen to after a while I can download it in less than one minute. Anime because the box sets are ridiculously priced. I was at Sun Coast and most of the complete box set were going anywhere from $50-100 for only 13-26 episodes. Definitely not something I would purchase. For me it basically comes down to opportunity cost. Would I really pay over a thousand dollars for my music collection when I listen to only about 10% of it? Would I really buy anime box sets when I can just torrent full HD versions and watch them on my television with the use of an S-video cable? If an easy viable option presents it self why not take it?

I can see why people get upset about piracy from a creative perspective since they feel they aren't being adequately respected for something they've created. However, admittedly its hard for me to share that perspective since I've never been in that sort of predicament nor while I hold a career that requires me to get an income from my creative works (in banking we steal from you). Piracy is not a good thing. I don't condone it nor do I believe my actions are acceptable. I would however say piracy is not stealing. Stealing means something is missing for someone else afterward; that's not the case in 'illegal copying of files'. The only thing you actually do is cheat the copyright holder out of his or her right to demand a fee for the usage of said material (which is still a bad thing).

I don't believe piracy is killing any industries. The X-men origins movie that was leaked and said to be terrible? It grossed over $85 million on opening weekend. Record companies would lose money on the albums that are pirated, but the artists themselves make barely anything on their actual CD's and get most of their money from touring and concerts. The video game companies have seen a continuous growth in profits and are up around 43% from 2007 (I heard this on NPR, but I can provide a source if need be). Anime studios make most of their money from DVDS and whatever anime that gets put out is determined by what the current taste of otakus are, but you can still easily find something to your liking.

With the trend of the internet becoming more important and integral into peoples lives, I also feel that industries should adapt to this and accommodate their market by making their products available by those means. People will still continue to buy things that they enjoy. Holding a physical copy of something that you've come to like gives an inner satisfaction to most of us, so I doubt that piracy will have any real major affect over consumer spending.

[dl316bh]

I would however say piracy is not stealing.

Stealing is, and I quote, "to take without right with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully". That's a dictionary definition. Sorry, but piracy is stealing no matter how you spin it. Just because the physical aspect of the crime is lost with the internet and said files does not make it any less so. People just fool themselves into believing such so they don't have to face the fact that what they're doing is wrong; that's called rationalization.

All the splitting hairs and arguing of semantics in the world doesn't change that.

The X-men origins movie that was leaked and said to be terrible? It grossed over $85 million on opening weekend.

That was going to be successful no matter what the hell happened. Hugh Jackman as Wolverine practically guaranteed the film was going to gross a great deal. This is the fourth film in a very successful franchise, despite the quality of the films being an entirely different matter, that people associate with that title character. Many other movies don't have the luxury of that sort of draw. Also, it still cost them sales anyways, even if this particular case wasn't enough to be horribly damaging.

Whether they deserve that money is another story, but that's just my hatred of Fox talking.

Edited by dl316bh, 08 May 2009 - 12:00 AM.

[Yakatsu]

Stealing is, and I quote, "to take without right with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully". That's a dictionary definition.

Even Oxford's greatest dictionary misspelled and MISINTERPRETED the word Phoenix.

Calling it Pheonix, a bush.
--------------------------------

Here's the catch.

I don't make one million dollars. I don't drive a new car every year. I barely have money in the end of the month.

And YOU want ME to spend my money on things that nowadays aren't really worth half the price-tag?

You can add a definition to stealing.

" Making people pay riches for a thing that isn't really worth that much. "

You can try and spin that , Morality! I know I'm a criminal. Doesn't stop me from living life , normally. It's not stealing if your not caught. Period.

BTW.

I'm downloading a french movie for my friend. TEE. FREAKING. HEE.

Edited by Yakatsu, 08 May 2009 - 12:25 AM.

[dl316bh]

I don't make one million dollars. I don't drive a new car every year. I barely have money in the end of the month.

That's nice; welcome to the club. I live in the same dreary, sad, pathetic monetary existence. That's not an excuse.

And YOU want ME to spend my money on things that nowadays aren't really worth half the price-tag?

That's how it works, sorry to tell you. Just because something is out there, made, does not mean you are entitled to it without paying for it. That's not the way it works. To think otherwise is childish, selfish self entitlement. If you can't afford it, you don't get it.

You can add a definition to stealing.

" Making people pay riches for a thing that isn't really worth that much. "

Hey, that's when you do what normal people do and not buy it. That doesn't mean you're fully entitled to take it anyways. You can spin words all you want, it doesn't make what you do any less deplorable or dispicable.

It's not stealing if your not caught. Period.

How cute. More rationalization. That's the kind of excuse I'd expect out of a teenager trying to explain away stealing from a neighbor.

But hey, if you happen to be robbed when you're out one day and the person manages to get away, you be sure and remember that when you call the police. I suppose to you murder also isn't murder if you aren't caught, judging by the way you look at things.

BTW.

I'm downloading a french movie for my friend. TEE. FREAKING. HEE.

Aww, aren't you just adorable with your immaturity? That's okay. It's not like I expected better.

Edited by dl316bh, 08 May 2009 - 01:11 AM.

[Yakatsu]

I'm laughing to myself.

You don't make it a question of law or moral. You're just some guy who's proud of his clean slate so much that feels the need to bring me down, because I'm a criminal. Well your right. Wait up let me slap a cat-eye mask and a stripped shirt and you can wear the blue helmet with the star on the middle.

After all, I am a selfish , no-good teenager with no sense of morality. And also a hypocrite. Man, I turn myself in officer. Let me delete everything I've 'stolen' and I shall live a life of pride, Sir!

[dl316bh]

Good for you. I'm laughing to myself too. You amuse me greatly.

You're just some guy who's proud of his clean slate so much that feels the need to bring me down, because I'm a criminal.

How nice of you to make it about you. Maybe you'd like to re-read the thread. I didn't say word one to you until you came in here and felt the need to blab about what you do and then subsequently try and justify it. I don't feel the need to bring anyone down because I can't make you feel what isn't in your heart. You're going to do what you're going to do.

That doesn't mean I'm not going to tell it like it is. If you can't handle that, it's not my problem.

After all, I am a selfish , no-good teenager with no sense of morality. And also a hypocrite.

Like I said, you amuse me. I actually expected you to twist some of my examples around to suit you.

Edited by dl316bh, 08 May 2009 - 01:23 AM.

[Yakatsu]

I'm glad that I amuse you such!

Ouch, touché my good friend. Touché.

Let me hang my head of defeat. Also I'm glad I draw out such inspectorate minds into discussion threads. Yes...

I dunno about not handling your post, but let's leave that to sometime else. In depth , like you said,

«You're going to do what you're going to do.»

Yes, my good man/woman. I couldn't handle the harsh reality of your post, I'll be honest!! I type these words with a sobbing face...and a sniffing voice. Pity oh me. Pity me.

Edited by Yakatsu, 08 May 2009 - 01:43 AM.

[dl316bh]

Thanks again for the laughs.

Yes, my good man/woman.

Man.

I wish more forums had those gender tags. They come in handy.

[darthv3ggie]

Why would someone argue piracy? It's completely pointless. I pirate software, and I believe it's wrong to do so without strict guidelines. It's wrong to steal things when you can simply pay for them. I, however, am a software enthusiast and am in a financial bind, being a minor with parents who have average income jobs. It doesn't justify the fact that I'm obtaining software that can be bought without paying; but the difference between most pirates and myself is that I actually give my thoughts on the software all over the internet. One way or another, in a good or bad opinion, other people are learning of the software and therefore going to check it out for themselves. So the developers gain from it in at least one respect. Piracy, in my opinion, is wrong unless you have absolutely no other way to obtain the software and if you still benefit the developers.

I'm not bothered by The Pirate Bay boys getting busted. They were cocky and flamboyant in their piracy, so they got in trouble. I don't see why you would so openly advertise the fact that you're hosting a piracy supporting website, sharing illegally obtained material, and acting as if you're proud of it? You might as well ask to be arrested...