99 replies to this topic

[goldenarms]

Ever since I discovered this site late last year, I've been noticing... a lot of people have been knocking back the Haterade since the ending came out and things did not end with Naruto and Sakura getting together. Bakamoto this, "Hope SP burns" that, "Naruto is a scumbag," kittening Hinata, quitting Naruto FOREVER, and on and on and on.

 

Understood already, I get that. However, I want to hear more from the NaruSaku moderates, the folks that might have been disappointed things didn't end NaruSaku, but they're cool about it, or even happy it didn't end NaruSaku due to certain things that they wanted addressed first before that Ship came in. So, are there any folks on here that would self-identify as a Moderate Shipper? I want to know what they feel, are they keeping up with the spin-offs, tracking the interviews, etc.? Because I really want to have some discussions about some things, but obviously I'm a bit hestitant with the tone of the current postings here.

[rocci]

What do you want to discuss?

[TouKen4Life3g]

The name may not help, but I do put story first and foremost than my own personal preference. I only ship it because the story once said so. I don't ship crack pairing, though I have no problem with people doing so.

So what is it you want to discuss as Rocci has asked?

[Nar123]

I can help

 

I put the story first always, that's the main reason I am mad with this ending

Well truth to be told I was mad since these last arcs, they were all terrible

[Phantom_999]

What I am upset about is how badly the story and characters were tarnished to make NH happen not that NS didn't happen. The story was utterly ruined, and no NS was just the final nail in the coffin. I'm sure many would not have minded NH happening if they were developed properly, but instead we had the character development of Naruto and Sakura destroyed for NH to happen and the movie was just a Hinata fest fan service for those in love with her cow-sized kittens. All character had to be shoved back and erased from screen time to make her shine.

So no I'm not upset about NS, I'm upset by how low the story had to sink to make NH happen

Edited by Phantom_999, 10 April 2015 - 05:34 PM.

[harry4e]

There is nothing for the NS moderates to be happy about, with the way it ended. Most of us are not as pissed because NS didn't happen, but the matter in which the other two pairings happened, how the very core of two of our favourite charactors were ruined to make the two possible. We saw 15 years of progress and charactor growth of Sakura destroyed and her taken back to her 12 year old vain fangirl schoolgirl from chapter 3. And Naruto to become a scumbag who never loved Sakura at all, he was just someone who chased Sakura for nine odd years because he was competing against Sasuke.

 

The entire fabric of the manga got destroyed with the ending, even more so with the movie, you cannot like NS as a pairing and like the manga, Kishi and SP made sure of that, they couldn't make SS and NH look convincing so they destroyed NS to make the other two look good, we've had a movie, and multiple books and all we've seen is that the only reason Naruto loves Hinata is because of the Genjutsu, her actions in the manga did not matter, the spoilers from the latest Sakura book went and destroyed her charactor further making her look more pathetic, and again gave the the SS fans no reason why their pairing exists. I actually liked Hinata before the movie, but her actions in the movie just proved to us how vain she is, how she was more bothered about getting her feelings across to Naruto than saving her sister, then she got made into a heroine, dispite never beating any enemy or showing the type of growth Sakura had...Apparently a girl who was born with good genes and abilities but with a confidence issue is a better heroine than a girl born with intelligence and no special ability who rose from the rank and proved what hard work can get you.

 

Tell me what is there for any NS fan after the end? Their friendship has been destroyed, their feelings for each other were dismissed. And let's be honest you can't be a moderate NS fan if you take your time to become a member of this site, and post regularly, you are more than a moderate fan, if you are a moderate fan, you'd have a few posts here and there, and you would have left the forum by now because the manga left nothing for you to care for the pairing for anymore, you never cared for the pairing enough to continue to support it, you've accepted the fact that the ending is correct and that NS were just us being delusional.

 

Allot of us are keeping up with the movie news, the manga news and interviews etc, and everything that comes out just makes us dispise the ending further, I think many of us have a small inclin of hope that they'll turn things around, and we'll see the reason for the ending and spin off was more than just a way to milk the Naruto cow further, but every single piece of news, every novel released, every interview just reconfirms that they are nothing more than greedy cash grabs.

Edited by harry4e, 07 April 2015 - 03:26 PM.

[Don'tMindME]

I saw the The Last. It was good for a Naruto movie (that's not saying much). I fully expect many hate filled responses. 

[Namikaze Clan]

I saw the The Last. It was good for a Naruto movie (that's not saying much). I fully expect many hate filled responses.

I know the majority of naruto movies arent that good. But what's offensive about the last is that it retcons previous events and facts and dismisses the NS bond as a result of rivalry. It painta hinata as a person who has supported Naruto from the beginning. But in reality she just stood by as he was abused without reaching out towards him. It is a travesty not only against NS, but the series as a whole. You don't have to be a shipper to see what is wrong with this film.

Edited by Namikaze Clan, 07 April 2015 - 05:15 PM.

[sushi.]

I know the majority of naruto movies arent that good. But what's offensive about the last is that it retcons previous events and facts and dismisses the NS bond as a result of rivalry. It painta hinata as a person who has supported Naruto from the beginning. But in reality she just stood by as he was abused without reaching out towards him. It is a travesty not only against NS, but the series as a whole. You don't have to be a shipper to see what is wrong with this film.

++It's supposed to be 699.5, yet is filled with anything but answers. We don't need to take the other movies seriously, (rtn did fill in some gaps tho).

 

No one should be happy about this ending, it was bad for every fan out there.

[Don'tMindME]

I know the majority of naruto movies are bad. But what's offensive about the last is that it retcons previous events and facts and dismisses the NS bond as a result of rivalry. It is a travesty not only against NS, but the series as a whole.

One line. The line about Naruto liking Sakura because of Sasuke. It's not even completely false, it just doesn't do their relationship justice to try and explain it like that. But's its  still only one line and it wasn't really any emphasis put into it. I'm not going to hate an entire movie because of one line.  

 

I gave up on Narusaku actually happening since the pain arc. Especially after sakura's fail fession. It was pretty obvious that Kishi wanted to go in another direction and I never cared too much about shipping that much. I don't really see where these retcons people keep talking about are.

[Nar123]

I saw the The Last. It was good for a Naruto movie (that's not saying much). I fully expect many hate filled responses. 

 

Unbiased view:

 

The Last as a standalone is just a mixed bag, it has some cheesy romantic scenes and some uninteristing action scenes but still manages to give it some kind of  plot to the movie ( even if its a stupid one), the soundtrack and the animation (as much as I didn't liked Naruto's new design tho)  are also pretty good but the villain is basically there to act as Bowser from Super Mario

 

 

The Last main problem however is that it's canon and it is supposed to be part of the manga storyline

 

@Namikaze clan already completed what I had to say

 

 

I know the majority of naruto movies arent that good. But what's offensive about the last is that it retcons previous events and facts and dismisses the NS bond as a result of rivalry. It paints hinata as a person who has supported Naruto from the beginning. But in reality she just stood by as he was abused without reaching out towards him. It is a travesty not only against NS, but the series as a whole. You don't have to be a shipper to see what is wrong with this film.

 

Besides this, it also retcons Naruto's emotional knowledge and Sakura pro-activity towards women indepedency. Also makes Naruto's character terribly OOC during the aftermath of "Hinata's betrayal"

Edited by Nar123, 07 April 2015 - 05:30 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

So what is the purpose here?

[Nar123]

One line. The line about Naruto liking Sakura because of Sasuke. It's not even completely false, it just doesn't do their relationship justice to try and explain it like that. But's its  still only one line and it wasn't really any emphasis put into it. I'm not going to hate an entire movie because of one line.  

 

I gave up on Narusaku actually happening since the pain arc. Especially after sakura's fail fession. It was pretty obvious that Kishi wanted to go in another direction and I never cared too much about shipping that much. I don't really see where these retcons people keep talking about are.

 

I already answered them

 

But here I go again

- The line of rivalry destroys Naruto's character and actually makes Sakura's horrible and heartless statement on chapter 3 a true statement

- Naruto's emotional capacity

-Makes MC OOC

- Hinata going back on her development foreshadowed on the story 

-Sakura going back on her dev. even more than she already did (encouraging Naruto to "protect" Hinata, when in the story not being protected by her teammates was her huge aspiration, this essentially means the directors prefered her as a cupid rather than remaining true to her character) 

- Destiny plot point corrupted even further 

 

 

It's not even completely false

 

?

 

 It is

Naruto never liked Sakura due to rivalry, this would imply that he was selfish regarding her and this goes against their whole relationship during the manga

Edited by Nar123, 07 April 2015 - 05:32 PM.

[luffyq1]

So what is the purpose here?

[Nar123]

So what is the purpose here?

 

OP hasn't appeared again to discuss what he wanted to discuss so Idk

[Broken Figurine]

I think the OP doesn't so much agree with the tone and hate that is rather apparent every since the (justified) disappointment of the ending. They said 

 

Ever since I discovered this site late last year, I've been noticing... a lot of people have been knocking back the Haterade since the ending came out and things did not end with Naruto and Sakura getting together. Bakamoto this, "Hope SP burns" that, "Naruto is a scumbag," kittening Hinata, quitting Naruto FOREVER, and on and on and on.

 

Understood already, I get that. However, I want to hear more from the NaruSaku moderates, the folks that might have been disappointed things didn't end NaruSaku, but they're cool about it, or even happy it didn't end NaruSaku due to certain things that they wanted addressed first before that Ship came in. So, are there any folks on here that would self-identify as a Moderate Shipper? I want to know what they feel, are they keeping up with the spin-offs, tracking the interviews, etc.? Because I really want to have some discussions about some things, but obviously I'm a bit hestitant with the tone of the current postings here.

 

I'm interested in seeing what that discussion is--and I think it's fair of the OP to not be dismissed by a tone of "whatever, everything sucks--Kishimoto sucks, everything's ruined" which I think is the fear if they open up with a serious intent to talk about something. 

[Don'tMindME]

 

I already answered them

 

But here I go again

- The line of rivalry destroys Naruto's character and actually makes Sakura's horrible and heartless statement on chapter 3 a true statement

- Naruto's emotional capacity

-Makes MC OOC

- Hinata going back on her development foreshadowed on the story 

-Sakura going back on her dev. even more than she already did (encouraging Naruto to "protect" Hinata, when in the story not being protected by her teammates was her huge aspiration, this essentially means the directors prefered her as a cupid rather than remaining true to her character) 

- Destiny plot point corrupted even further 

 

 

?

 

 It is

Naruto never liked Sakura due to rivalry, this would imply that he was selfish regarding her and this goes against their whole relationship during the manga

You are just saying exactly what everyone says without any context. What destroys Naruto's character, how is he OOC, what is hinata's forshadowing? You are stating results, but I don't understand how you are getting to them. 

Edited by Don'tMindME, 07 April 2015 - 05:38 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

For the record, it's not like everything in Naruto apparently suck. But the moments of morals and/or build ups are negated so....

[Nar123]

You are just saying exactly what everyone says without any context. What destroys Naruto's character, how is he OOC, what is hinata's forshadowing? You are stating results, but I don't understand how you are getting to them. 

 

I will give you context then

 

+Naruto's character, emotional knowledge is a known factor that he has, it's present durign the whole manga, he is in touch with his emotions and empathizes easily with people, that's one thing that made him different to other shonen protagonists like Goku 

 

If you want proof, just look at Naruto's confrontation with Zabuza at the bridge, or with Gaara, or with Sasuke, or with Sakura during the POAL, his confrontation with Dark Naruto.

 

During the last this was just completely forgotten/ erased and they made Naruto's emotional knowledge that of a small kid, all of this because they had to find a excuse as to why did Naruto didn't addressed Hinata's blatant confession, the best way they could find was to make him an emotional retard that confused her love to love for food. This is a retcon that damaged one of the MC main characteristcs.

 

+How he is OOC?

Its simple, after Hinata is taken (and after a brief confrontation), Naruto simply gives up, he gives up on everything, the world, his friends, everything and all of this because he was down because Hinata basically rejected him

 

Now don't get me wrong, the error isn't on Naruto giving up per see,the error is on why he gave up like that, the excuse was too weak. A IC Naruto would do everything to go after Hinata and demand explanation like he did with Sasuke, not once he actually gave up on Sasuke not even during the times Sasuke was actually crazy 

 

That's why this scene makes him OOC and the japanes began to call him scumbag.

 

+ Hinata going back on her development

 

We all know HInata is pretty much a static character, her only development in part 2 is bound to Naruto, which is a shame. However the worst thing is that even this little development she had was screwed upon

 

Remember that at war arc she said she would begin to walk close to him and things like that, here she vowed she would stand by his side? Well in the movie mainly at the beginning what we saw was just the pitful Hinata from the beginning of part 2, incapable of handling herself around Naruto and going against her hinted foreshadowing

 

 

+Corrupted plot theme

You didn't ask me for this one but I will detail it anyway

The destiny plot theme was introduced in part 1 in the Neji vs Hinata fight, then it was corrupted in part 2 with all the chosen one, reincarnation BS. The last hurt this even more by making Hinata "the byakugan princess", the one destined to end Toneri's lame ambitions

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

I will give you context then

 

+Naruto's character, emotional knowledge is a known factor that he has, it's present durign the whole manga, he is in touch with his emotions and empathizes easily with people, that's one thing that made him different to other shonen protagonists like Goku 

 

If you want proof, just look at Naruto's confrontation with Zabuza at the bridge, or with Gaara, or with Sasuke, or with Sakura during the POAL, his confrontation with Dark Naruto.

 

During the last this was just completely forgotten/ erased and they made Naruto's emotional knowledge that of a small kid, all of this because they had to find a excuse as to why did Naruto didn't addressed Hinata's blatant confession, the best way they could find was to make him an emotional retard that confused her love to love for food. This is a retcon that damaged one of the MC main characteristcs.

 

+How he is OOC?

Its simple, after Hinata is taken (and after a brief confrontation), Naruto simply gives up, he gives up on everything, the world, his friends, everything and all of this because he was down because Hinata basically rejected him

 

Now don't get me wrong, the error isn't on Naruto giving up per see,the error is on why he gave up like that, the excuse was too weak. A IC Naruto would do everything to go after Hinata and demand explanation like he did with Sasuke, not once he actually gave up on Sasuke not even during the times Sasuke was actually crazy 

 

That's why this scene makes him OOC and the japanes began to call him scumbag.

 

+ Hinata going back on her development

 

We all know HInata is pretty much a static character, her only development in part 2 is bound to Naruto, which is a shame. However the worst thing is that even this little development she had was screwed upon

 

Remember that at war arc she said she would begin to walk close to him and things like that, here she vowed she would stand by his side? Well in the movie mainly at the beginning what we saw was just the pitful Hinata from the beginning of part 2, incapable of handling herself around Naruto and going against her hinted foreshadowing

 

 

+Corrupted plot theme

You didn't ask me for this one but I will detail it anyway

The destiny plot theme was introduced in part 1 in the Neji vs Hinata fight, then it was corrupted in part 2 with all the chosen one, reincarnation BS. The last hurt this even more by making Hinata "the byakugan princess", the one destined to end Toneri's lame ambitions

 

Once again, Nar, you sure know whatcha mean!