24 replies to this topic

[rikakim94]

This is something that bothers me a lot in a good way and a bad way since i see tons of tons of people complaining about cliche's.

The common cliche's i see people whine about is the happy ending cliche,Mainxmain pair always happening and in anime several shonen cliches people don't like hero always winning, getting random power ups, using the power of friendship and love to defeat the enemies.  

 

I could understand why some start to complain about cliche's it can get tiring to see the same old cliche's happen over and over again until it gets predictable. But trying to avoid all cliches altogether and trying to do something unique with it seems like a difficult task you could still run into cliche's or you might not be successful by trying to do something entirely new.  Another thing that kinda urks me is when people/writer or director avoid popular tropes/cliche they claim what they did to be unique or never done before, when in reality there could be other cliche's they ran into instead.

 

Another thing i would like to ask is have you ever seen an author,creator,writer and director complain about a cliche they don't like and try to avoid it?

[Phantom_999]

Taiora. That is all. Even though Mattora is JUST as cliche

Edited by Phantom_999, 24 February 2015 - 06:55 PM.

[rikakim94]

Taiora. That is all. Even though Mattora is JUST as cliche

 

Yeah the director from digimon is the only director i know that complains about popular cliches in general. So you find the threesome to be a cliche too can you give mores examples?

 

I just found that kishi's favorite film is 500 days of summer avoids popular romance cliche's to. But Im not sure what the director of that film opinion is with cliche's.

Edited by rikakim94, 25 February 2015 - 01:51 AM.

[rocci]

I never watch that movie, but I think the movie it self is a cliche.

[rikakim94]

I never watch that movie, but I think the movie it self is a cliche.

 

Why do you think its a cliche i never watched it but i read reviews saying it avoids certain romance cliche's.

[rocci]

 
Why do you think its a cliche i never watched it but i read reviews saying it avoids certain romance cliche's.

I only see it from Wikipedia. ^^
Kind of like the terminal, but in terminal the protagonist doesn't meet another love interest at the end of movie.

[rikakim94]

Any other opinions anyone?

[Phantom_999]

Not at the moment sorry O__O I'll let you know if I find anything else

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Clichés are everywhere. Pretty much everything has been done somewhere, by someone. In my opinion, clichés are unavoidable and the only thing that matters is execution. You could have the most unique, original sounding idea that no one's ever seen before and it could still suck because the execution is no good. I get rather tired of hearing complaints of "I don't like that, it's cliché". What isn't cliché these days? It's not what matters in determining whether something is good or bad anyway, only how it's handled and presented to readers/audiences and in the end it's still going to be subjective.  

[Lid]

Clichés are everywhere. Pretty much everything has been done somewhere, by someone. In my opinion, clichés are unavoidable and the only thing that matters is execution. You could have the most unique, original sounding idea that no one's ever seen before and it could still suck because the execution is no good. I get rather tired of hearing complaints of "I don't like that, it's cliché". What isn't cliché these days? It's not what matters in determining whether something is good or bad anyway, only how it's handled and presented to readers/audiences and in the end it's still going to be subjective.  

 

Neko-Chan nailed it. It all comes down to the execution. 

 

There are so many cliches that are seen across all media, movies, books, you name it. It happens, the question is what was the effort put behind it.

 

A movie for example that has great acting, direction, set design, etc., will likely be able to get away with some cliche qualities because what goes on around the cliches are still charming and engaging.

 

I won't lie, as a film critic, I love being able to see fresh, new and innovative ideas on screen. However, I can still enjoy a film, say a sports movie, for example, that often have many cliches as long as it was executed well.

[trang95]

Clichés are everywhere. Pretty much everything has been done somewhere, by someone. In my opinion, clichés are unavoidable and the only thing that matters is execution. You could have the most unique, original sounding idea that no one's ever seen before and it could still suck because the execution is no good. I get rather tired of hearing complaints of "I don't like that, it's cliché". What isn't cliché these days? It's not what matters in determining whether something is good or bad anyway, only how it's handled and presented to readers/audiences and in the end it's still going to be subjective.  

You are taking the words out of my mouth.

I am annoyed a lot when people are complaining about cliches. I've grown up with some stereotypical themes and personalities in mangas, and never felt the need to constantly search for something completely original each and every time. I feel safe when I encounter series that have some clichee things going on.

I am quite disappointed for instance when I am recommending an awesome anime such as Code Geass to others, and others feel the mecha genre is too "cliche" sounding. Of course, it's another story, if you don't like mecha in general, like me. You've seen Code Geass: Is the mecha strong in there? No.

What it all boils down to is execution. Even Nanatsu no Taizai that is the definition of originality when it comes to its cast, has some horrible themes going on in there and a rather disappointing female lead.

[rikakim94]

Clichés are everywhere. Pretty much everything has been done somewhere, by someone. In my opinion, clichés are unavoidable and the only thing that matters is execution. You could have the most unique, original sounding idea that no one's ever seen before and it could still suck because the execution is no good. I get rather tired of hearing complaints of "I don't like that, it's cliché". What isn't cliché these days? It's not what matters in determining whether something is good or bad anyway, only how it's handled and presented to readers/audiences and in the end it's still going to be subjective.  

 

 

 

Neko-Chan nailed it. It all comes down to the execution. 

 

There are so many cliches that are seen across all media, movies, books, you name it. It happens, the question is what was the effort put behind it.

 

A movie for example that has great acting, direction, set design, etc., will likely be able to get away with some cliche qualities because what goes on around the cliches are still charming and engaging.

 

I won't lie, as a film critic, I love being able to see fresh, new and innovative ideas on screen. However, I can still enjoy a film, say a sports movie, for example, that often have many cliches as long as it was executed well.

 

 

You are taking the words out of my mouth.

I am annoyed a lot when people are complaining about cliches. I've grown up with some stereotypical themes and personalities in mangas, and never felt the need to constantly search for something completely original each and every time. I feel safe when I encounter series that have some clichee things going on.

I am quite disappointed for instance when I am recommending an awesome anime such as Code Geass to others, and others feel the mecha genre is too "cliche" sounding. Of course, it's another story, if you don't like mecha in general, like me. You've seen Code Geass: Is the mecha strong in there? No.

What it all boils down to is execution. Even Nanatsu no Taizai that is the definition of originality when it comes to its cast, has some horrible themes going on in there and a rather disappointing female lead.

 

I find this opinion to be refreshing for once theres way to many people who think breaking few cilches equals to uniqueness which is not entirely true you could still run into other cilche's that other people might find to be tiring.

 

What do you guys think when people counter whatever you guys just say by toning down cliche's can be more refreshing?

 

As for a creator/author complaining about cilche's I think i found one in a video game called final fantasy tactics advance in that game the Mc and the female character do not have any romacetic interest in one another they just stay as friends. In a way it avoids mainxmain cilche. I have a strange feeling the director might have thought mainxmain is an over done cliche or somthing Also the main character  is not a typical stereotype of a shonen genre.

Edited by rikakim94, 16 March 2015 - 01:15 AM.

[Phantom_999]

Do you know what is stupid about people complaining about the main x main couple or shipping, calling it cliche? Is that for the most part the main x main makes the most sense. They have the most screen time, the most opportunities to develop their relationship and seem the most believable to to have a romance blossom between them. since only a select few characters can get focus in a story at any given time why not? You don't like the main x main route? then you have to make sure that the intended partner gets enough of relationship development with the main character 9s0. Anything less is bulls**t pathetic as we can all attest to.

Edited by Phantom_999, 16 March 2015 - 02:08 PM.

[EmperorZeo]

It really depends on the cliche and if it works for the story. That's what people tend to forget about cliches, is that the reason that they cliches in the first place is because they work and as a result the are frequently used. Cliches should stop being used when they no longer work, or do not work well within context of the story. As long as a cliche is executed well and meshes well with the content of the story, its use really isn't a problem. 

[BakeNeko-Chan]

 

 

 

 

 

I find this opinion to be refreshing for once theres way to many people who think breaking few cilches equals to uniqueness which is not entirely true you could still run into other cilche's that other people might find to be tiring.

 

What do you guys think when people counter whatever you guys just say by toning down cliche's can be more refreshing?

 

As for a creator/author complaining about cilche's I think i found one in a video game called final fantasy tactics advance in that game the Mc and the female character do not have any romacetic interest in one another they just stay as friends. In a way it avoids mainxmain cilche. I have a strange feeling the director might have thought mainxmain is an over done cliche or somthing Also the main character  is not a typical stereotype of a shonen genre.

 

It really strongly depends on the story. Using love triangles as an example, obviously it's a very widespread cliché, and not one I particularly care for. I believe you posted something -- though I can't remember which thread -- about how love triangle can sort of break out of the usual straight line formula (A likes C, B likes A) and turn it on it's head by making it a real triangle (A likes C, C likes B, B likes A or something like that). Depending on the story, context, and execution, this kind of breaking of an established cliché can work, or may not. Some people may love it for being 'original' and some may hate it as an old cliché trying to pass itself off as something new. 

 

The successful use of clichés are extremely subjective to readers/audiences and the writer just has to decide for themselves if the cliché makes sense for the characters and the story they want to tell. I think it's important for writers to make themselves aware of the kinds of clichés they are likely to run into for whatever genre or demographic they are writing for, and then think on how they may or may not want to use them. The key is not to avoid all possible clichés, because again, that's impossible, but to just be careful how they are used.   

[rikakim94]

Whats your opinion on people who whine about how it would be better if nobody gets paired up with anyone? because men and women should be just friends for once.

[rikakim94]

Do you know what is stupid about people complaining about the main x main couple or shipping, calling it cliche? Is that for the most part the main x main makes the most sense. They have the most screen time, the most opportunities to develop their relationship and seem the most believable to to have a romance blossom between them. since only a select few characters can get focus in a story at any given time why not? You don't like the main x main route? then you have to make sure that the intended partner gets enough of relationship development with the main character 9s0. Anything less is bulls**t pathetic as we can all attest to.

 

I guess some people get tried of seeing the the same old cilche's being used over and over till the point its get predictable. Maybe to them they thinks its unique to pair couple thats not the to lead characters And i don't think they care much for the amount of screentime the two main leads get as long as its not the mainxmain cilche they find it refreshing.

 

I have one taiora fan that disagreed that sorato is breaking all cilche because it dosen't pair the two lead characters.

Heres her argument

 

Wait wait wait…SORATO has never been done before?!Sorato?? 

Oh right because the normal, average, feminine, girl-next-door good girl main heroine who is so easy for the female audience to relate to…and the most popular, prettiest, pretty to the point of beingmodel-likemale character with an angst-ridden past, who ALSO falls into the “fierce” “manly” “stoic” “brooding” “bad boy” category for many who don’t look too deeply into him (and I know for a fact most of the fangirls irl who are into Zuko, Sasuke, Mako and Edward Cullen types also love this character, unfortunately for him because he falls so nicely into that cliche for them)ALSO is a rockstar, is vaguely hipster-ish, has a ton of adoring fangirls but of course only has eyes for one girl, the main heroine…

this is sooo new and unique…because a boy like that magically being interested in a girl like that with no development, in a way that would be so easy for the average young female viewer to use the girl as a self-insert even is sooo realistic and one of a kind…I mean it’s not like practicallyevery shoujo, YA novel, self-insert fanfiction and poorly written romance novel spanning the decadesdon’t rely on such tropes 

[rikakim94]

Ok whats your opinion on people complaining about how how all romance is cliched therefore men and women should just stay friends for once? 

[Aizen-Sama]

There's a difference between a cliche and something that makes sense.  I don't support cliches but I do support things that MAKE SENSE.  If the thing that makes sense happens to fall into the cliche category, oh well, if it doesn't, good.

An example is Taiora.  People says it's "cliche" because it's main guy & main girl but those are not the reasons why I support Taoira. (though it's a pro because we get to see their interactions more)  I ship Tai & Sora because they're close friends, have chemistry, and are hinted to have romantic feelings for eachother.  Are those not valid enough reasons to ship a couple?

These anti-taoiras seem to forget that Matt/Sora ALSO falls into the "cliche" category since it's about the girl falling for the rival, bad boy + love interest, so they need to shut the kitten up about this "cliche" bullsh*t.  It's a cheap excuse to deride pairings they don't like since they can't come up with actual valid arguments against them.

"Cliche" is not even a valid argument, it's completely subjective, based on opinion, and does not prove or disprove the evidence of a couple!! 

 

Ok whats your opinion on people complaining about how how all romance is cliched therefore men and women should just stay friends for once? 

 

So pro-creation is all a complete "cliche" therefore we should all either turn gay or asexual and go extinct?  (though these cliche-f*cktards will probably say being gay is a "cliche" if enough of us do it)  Whoever said that is a complete dumbass; yes, men & women CAN be friends & I support beautiful platonic relationships between the sexes but does that mean romance doesn't exist between OTHER men & women?  No, it doesn't, especially when there is ACTUAL EVIDENCE that they like eachother that way!!  (Tai being sad that Sora went for Matt; Sora trying to hide the cookies she made for Matt from Tai; are these the behaviors of two people who see eachother as "only friends"?)

These "cliche"-yappers are also hypocrites because they're only using the term for their own benefit; why can't Matt and Sora just "stay friends", why is it only Taiora that gets the platonic stamp even though there is actual evidence that their feelings are not platonic? 

* There are stories where I DO support boys and girls just being friends, like in Digimon Tamers with Takato & Rika.  There is very little evidence that they even like eachother that way and their personalities aren't very compatible.  I support Takato x Jeri yet some people think that pairing is a cliche because it's about a boy crushing on his classmate.     Jeri is not even a main character yet some people still think her & Takato are a "cliche" couple!  You get it now?  Cliche is just an insult from shippers to deride couples they dislike, usually because the romance formula is overused.  The term can apply to anything and does not prove or disprove the evidence of romance.

I'd rather support a "cliche" couple that makes sense, rather than an "uncliche" crack couple that doesn't make sense.

[rikakim94]

Does anyone feel lonely when you ship an underrated mainxmain pairing? Like most mainxmain pairings get criticism for being overdone or being to obivious Sometimes it gets lonely to ship them when almost everyone hates/dislikes them for that reasons.        

Edited by rikakim94, 26 April 2015 - 06:26 AM.