23 replies to this topic

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Most of us already saw Kishimoto's recent interview. That he had only focused on NaruSaku to deliberately mislead the fanbase into thinking it was canon while NaruHina had been planned in the early stages. Making himself look like an a**hole who loves playing with his fans and ruining his credibility, but I digress.

 

Do you guys think he's telling the truth? NaruSaku was never planned, even the MinaKushi parallel was just toying with us? I don't know what to think anymore, but I just know it does look like he's lying. No writer goes through all that just to surprise his fans at the sake of his writing and it's incredibly cruel to the readers.

 

I just knew if it is true, then Kishimoto is a complete a**hole and should never be taken seriously again.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 07 December 2014 - 03:52 AM.

[ThroughWithLove]

It's canon. No amount of moronic or deceitful backpedaling explanations from the author himself will change that. We all know how the story was supposed to end even if the author doesn't.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 07 December 2014 - 04:03 AM.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

I believe he's lying to save his face.

[RedFaction]

He's lying to himself, and I hate people who lie to themselves.

[ThroughWithLove]

He's lying to himself, and I hate people who lie to themselves.

 

Incidentally, if we are to believe the author, Naruto lied to himself throughout the entire manga, making him the biggest hypocrite in the series.

[Miss Soupy]

He's grasping for straws it seems like. You don't develop your 'red-herring' to the point the actual intended pairing has nothing to stand on in comparison XD

[trang95]

Liar, Liar, Liar

[Saku-chan]

Kishimoto is saying these things in order to counter claims that NH is indeed out of nowhere. If he were to admit that NH was decided recently, it would lose value to NH shippers who are the only people defending this piece of garbage. He doesn't want to alienate the only people he's got left. Who knows who actually decided on this ending anyway? Was it Kishi? Was it Shueisha? Was it Studio Pierro? We may never know. Kishi may be under contractual obligation to sell this movie and the ending. Or he might be a huge sellout. All we can do is voice our displeasure, refuse to support Part 3, and wait for an explanation in the same vein of Toriyama when he admitted to breaking up Bulma and Yamcha to piss off fans so he could end DBZ.

[trang95]

Kishimoto is saying these things in order to counter claims that NH is indeed out of nowhere. If he were to admit that NH was decided recently, it would lose value to NH shippers who are the only people defending this piece of garbage. He doesn't want to alienate the only people he's got left. Who knows who actually decided on this ending anyway? Was it Kishi? Was it Shueisha? Was it Studio Pierro? We may never know. Kishi may be under contractual obligation to sell this movie and the ending. Or he might be a huge sellout. All we can do is voice our displeasure, refuse to support Part 3, and wait for an explanation in the same vein of Toriyama when he admitted to breaking up Bulma and Yamcha to piss off fans so he could end DBZ.

How many years did fans have to wait to find this out?

[alexander]

Kishimoto is saying these things in order to counter claims that NH is indeed out of nowhere. If he were to admit that NH was decided recently, it would lose value to NH shippers who are the only people defending this piece of garbage. He doesn't want to alienate the only people he's got left. Who knows who actually decided on this ending anyway? Was it Kishi? Was it Shueisha? Was it Studio Pierro? We may never know. Kishi may be under contractual obligation to sell this movie and the ending. Or he might be a huge sellout. All we can do is voice our displeasure, refuse to support Part 3, and wait for an explanation in the same vein of Toriyama when he admitted to breaking up Bulma and Yamcha to piss off fans so he could end DBZ.

 

Didn't that backfired however? I remember something like the fandom actually liking the idea of Bulma and Vegeta. I guess Yamcha wasn't very popular? Personally, I think it's an crazy mix of everything. Kishi being an sell out and the publishers caring more about money then actual integrity to the storyline. It's just like Mass effect 3 ending again. They made an million excuses to explain that abomination but the fandom knew better. 

[tricksie]

The only red herring was Kishimoto being a good writer. 

[Namaenash]

The only red herring was Kishimoto being a good writer. 

 

^ This is probably the best comment I've seen in a while now :) kudos Miss Tricksie...

 

Funny how it turns out... For sure, this author can exclude me from supporting all his future works.

[trang95]

The only red herring was Kishimoto being a good writer. 

best comment in a while ^_^

short and to the point

[Nostradamus]

No it's not a red-herring. A red-herring does not go on for 15 years, 698 chapters and if the info that we learned today 699 chapters and actually a movie.

It's just him either trying to justify this catastrophically bad decision he made or someone else made it for him, or he's trying to make sure the movie and upcoming part 3 will fail maybe it's his revenge because what happened. Truth is probably we'll never know.

[rocci]

What is red herring?

[Nostradamus]

What is red herring?

From wikipedia "The idiom "red herring" is used to refer to something that misleads or distracts from the relevant or important issue.^[1] It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or characters towards a false conclusion. A red herring might be intentionally used, such as in mystery fiction or as part of a rhetorical strategy (e.g. in politics), or it could be inadvertently used during argumentation."

 

Basically it's tricking the reader into believing one thing when in reality it's something else.

But when you do a red herring you don't do it for the entire storyline. What you do is create one or two moments.

[Iwantbuns]

I don't know anymore. He's just too contradicting to the point, that I can't even....

[Rakshas]

Yeah, like others said, I'm not sure it can even qualify as a red herring even if that's what he intended it to be.  Kishimoto admits he is bad at romance.  So he pretty much leaves it out for the main character and his true love interest, then develops a budding love between Naruto and Sakura as a red herring?  That is completely asinine.  Maybe Kishimoto was able to write NaruSaku because he was intending it to be fake, the problem is it ended up being far to substantial for NaruHina to have a legit leg to stand on.  Regardless of what his original intentions were, Naruto and Sakura had chemistry.  If a couple has chemistry, development, and makes sense, you don't just throw it away for a terrible and  undeveloped side character pair EVEN IF that's what you planned on in the first place.  Why?  Because it's bad writing.  It really leaves a bad taste in my mouth either way.  The shallow nature of NaruHina kind of makes me want to vomit.

 

But I will say this.  I have disliked Naruto intensely since the hyperventilating scene in LOI.  I began to dislike it since the nature training arc.  I have a feeling Naruto started going downhill since part II where Kishimoto may have started having more free reign in his work.  Part I may have been good because of influence from the editors.  Here is the deal, from my point of view  Kishimoto had a decent concept to start with, and his editors helped him immensely in his creation of what would be a pretty good part I.  Kishimoto is not a good writer, the editors are.  The less influence they have, the worse his work becomes.  I only continued reading the series because I thought NaruSaku was an interesting pair and I wanted to see how it would be resolved.  Anyway, that's my take on it.

 

On a side note, I hope this same thing doesn't happen in Bleach, where the main pairing that's basically written as soul mates (with a bond far stronger than NaruSaku IMO) also gets thrown in the trash.  (Sorry if you like IchiHime XD).

Edited by Rakshas, 07 December 2014 - 07:39 PM.

[KnS]

I've been pretty quiet lately, mainly because I can't seem to find the right words to express my reaction to what's happened, and every time I've tried I get a headache.  

 

But I can say that this entire fiasco reminds me of a scene from Lethal Weapon, in which Martin Riggs (played by Mel Gibson) explains his situation.  Please pardon the language.

Hey, look friend, let's just cut the sh*t. Now we both know why I was transferred. Everybody thinks I'm suicidal, in which case I'm f*cked and nobody wants to work with me.  Or they think I'm faking to draw a psycho pension, in which case I'm f*cked and nobody wants to work with me.  Basically, I'm f*cked.

 

^ This is Kishimoto now.  At least it should be.  Either he wrote NS and then betrayed it for some reason, in which case he is screwed, or he was using NS as a diversion thinking it would somehow make NH more powerful at the end, in which case he is screwed.  Either way, he's screwed.

 

As many others have said, right now it is impossible for us to know exactly how this disaster came about or which of the PR damage control stories is the truth.  We may find out later, we may not.  

 

My question is.... Who cares?  Personally, I have lost all respect for the purveyors of this garbage, and don't feel the least bit guilty or "delusional" for choosing to ignore it in favor of NS. 

 

I am beyond pissed that Kishimoto stooped to assassinating Naruto's character -- making him into some kind of jerk who only played at loving Sakura -- and then stuck him with a weak, ridiculous, selfish girl who -- despite getting an entire movie devoted to her -- never grew any stronger, never grew any more aware of anything beyond the Naruto-obsessed bubble in which she insulated herself, and who failed completely to become a self-sufficient person with a focus on anything besides her own feelings.

 

Absolutely EVERYTHING in the manga that made any sense at all was ultimately sacrificed in a pathetic and unsuccessful attempt to make Hinata a character of substance or even matter at all.

 

It sickens me on every level.

 

You know, I had thought Twilight: Breaking Wind Dawn was the most poorly conceived and written piece of contrived garbage that could be foisted onto a paying fanbase.  But this crap from Kishimoto, SP, SJ, et al., is worse.

 

NS has become a matter of principle for me now.  Both Naruto and Sakura deserved better mates and better, brighter, happier, more meaningful futures than they got. Kishimoto might not care about them, but I still do.

[ThroughWithLove]

Yeah, like others said, I'm not sure it can even qualify as a red herring even if that's what he intended it to be.  Kishimoto admits he is bad at romance.  So he pretty much leaves it out for the main character and his true love interest, then develops a budding love between Naruto and Sakura as a red herring?  That is completely asinine.  Maybe Kishimoto was able to write NaruSaku because he was intending it to be fake, the problem is it ended up being far to substantial for NaruHina to have a legit leg to stand on.  Regardless of what his original intentions were, Naruto and Sakura had chemistry.  If a couple has chemistry, development, and makes sense, you don't just throw it away for a terrible and  undeveloped side character pair EVEN IF that's what you planned on in the first place.  Why?  Because it's bad writing.  It really leaves a bad taste in my mouth either way.  The shallow nature of NaruHina kind of makes me want to vomit.

 

But I will say this.  I have disliked Naruto intensely since the hyperventilating scene in LOI.  I began to dislike it since the nature training arc.  I have a feeling Naruto started going downhill since part II where Kishimoto may have started having more free reign in his work.  Part I may have been good because of influence from the editors.  Here is the deal, from my point of view  Kishimoto had a decent concept to start with, and his editors helped him immensely in his creation of what would be a pretty good part I.  Kishimoto is not a good writer, the editors are.  The less influence they have, the worse his work becomes.  I only continued reading the series because I thought NaruSaku was an interesting pair and I wanted to see how it would be resolved.  Anyway, that's my take on it.

 

 

This on SO MANY LEVELS. Somewhere in part 2, Naruto's character began getting derailed as his DEMENTED OBSESSION with Sasuke had hit ridiculous levels. It's bad enough that he nearly let Sasuke kill him when they met again in Orochimaru's hideout (completely idiotic and OOC IMO), but when I saw that crap during the LOI arc where he started talking about him and Sasuke having to die together, I couldn't believe what I was reading. I was even more flabbergastered that Sakura didn't call him out on the stupidity there was in this kind of thinking; instead, she just rolled with it. Seriously, how the hell would he be keeping his promise to Sakura by willingly dying with Sasuke?

 

For a long time, I had thought his obsession with Sasuke was fueled by his love for Sakura and that honestly would've been the best explanation. But then they toss this (and the POAL) out of the window when Naruto says he mainly wants to bring Sasuke back for himself. Honestly, when I saw him say this as well as hyperventilate over Sasuke afterwards, I should've known the POAL would not receive any attention in the ending. In hindsight, this was Kishi's way of retconning sweeping it under the rug. Saving Sasuke went from 'saving a friend and doing anything to make the woman you love happy' to 'over-the-top homoerotic undertones (most blatant in chapter 698).' The latter has more fuel than ever now that we know that Naruto only feigned interest in Sakura in the first place just to get closer to Sasuke.   Oh yeah, adult Naruto is a depressed alcoholic facebook obsessed bastard alright! But not because he didn't get the girl of his dreams, but he can't be with his man, incidentally, the true protagonist of this manga!

 

 

On a side note, I hope this same thing doesn't happen in Bleach, where the main pairing that's basically written as soul mates (with a bond far stronger than NaruSaku IMO) also gets thrown in the trash.  (Sorry if you like IchiHime XD).

 

 

I used to care about Bleach pairings, but all of that went out of the window as Bleach slowly turned into this . . . this . . . I don't even know what to call Bleach right now. Hell, for the past dozen chapters, I've simply read the first and last pages of the chapter. That's how little substance there is these days. I did ship Ichime incidentally and would maintain that up until the Grimmjaw rematch (the peak of Bleach), that looked like the most logical pairing. But yeah, these days, I don't give a f-ck. Hell, wouldn't phase me if Ichigo and Yorouchi got together.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 07 December 2014 - 10:13 PM.