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Don't Blame Kishi


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#1 Win-chan

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 07:23 PM

Edit: blame him. Blame that freaking mofo until the end of time. He deserves nothing but utmost disrespect for not only ruining his characters but for being a sexist pig who only knows how to degrade women. I'm too lazy to edit the rest of this, but know that I know Kishi sucks.

Now before you get annoyed, I am NOT a crap-author apologist. I believe whole-heartedly that it is not an author's right to do whatever they want with their story and that even if they make something happen, that doesn't automatically make it realistic. Now that being said, please proceed to the rest of the post :)
 
I actually believe that Kishimoto was forced into this and that he wasn't happy about it. Because SasuSaku was the most popular pairing in Japan and some people got set on making a Naruto spin-off, they decided to make Kishimoto change it to SasuSaku so more of their fans would stay for the spin-off. I mean, we're living proof of that, right? Look at us. Most of us, myself included, are shunning the spin-off. We're not going to read it. So, if the most popular ship is SasuSaku and they make NaruSaku happen, then they just alienated the majority of their fans. Not good for money. Obvious solution? Make the more popular ship happen, and we've got a bigger audience for the spin-off.
 
Why do I think this? Because NaruSaku was the one with all the build-up. I believe that as recently as 663, where Sakura's love for Naruto and Karin's love for Sasuke (which love we know to be romantic) was paralleled, Kishimoto was planning on making NaruSaku canon. We have confirmation straight from Minato that NaruSaku is a parallel of MinaKushi. Can't get much blunter than that! What other proof do I have that Kishimoto wasn't happy about this?
 
For starters, he gave NaruHina/SasuSaku little to NO closure. SasuSaku had like a page or two, where he poked her forehead (romantiku~! If anything that points to more of a brother/sister relationship since the only other person who did that to him was his BIG BROTHER) and NaruHina had one panel. Then they were all married with babies. However, even after they were married, he gave us absolutely no interaction between the two couples. In addition, he never actually killed off NaruSaku, because Naruto didn't actually ever say to Sakura he was moving on, and she never actually rejected him. They just married different people (who didn't have any interaction). IF he were happy with this and planning on it, I think he would give us more. But to me, it almost seems like "I'm being forced to make these people end up together but I'm not happy about it, so I'm just going to not show any interaction between them. And I'm not going to officially kill off NaruSaku." 
 
Secondly, he didn't actually draw the epilogue. His assistants did. You'd think that if a mangaka loved their work that they would want to finish it himself, right?! That screams to me that he was forced into something he didn't want and instead of going along with it, stubbornly said, "Fine, you guys can crap on my story if you want, but I'M not going along with it." I know if I wrote something for fifteen years, I'D wanna finish it out. If people took it from me and ruined it, though, then maybe I wouldn't. In addition, there's his involvement in "The Last" movie, which will allegedly expand upon the NaruHina romance. Who knows how involved Kishimoto was in this movie. He created all the designs (and again made Sakura look more like Kushina), but he's not going to be animating it or who even knows how much he'll be involved in the storyline. I just know that up until this point, he hasn't been too involved in the creation of filler movies. It appears that he's just handed his manga over and is trying to wash his hands of the end.
 
Then there's the case of interesting little Salad Uchiha, who is an Uchiha with glasses, when neither one of her parents even HAVE glasses. I think that there are only three characters in the whole story who even wear glasses: Kabuto, Karin, and that weird girl who vibed Shikamaru. It seems supremely random that a child of Sakura and Sasuke, both of whom do NOT have glasses, would have a child with glasses, ESPECIALLY since most of the other children were obviously spitting images of their parents, attaining very conspicuous traits from them. SO WHY would he randomly change that and throw glasses on a SasuSaku kid, which makes even less sense genetically than Sai's kid having blonde hair? My theory (I don't care if it's conspiracy) is that Kishimoto already had in his mind, and probably on sketches, designs from NS and SK kids. He was planning on canonizing them. Then, when he was forced to make this stupid ending, instead of creating a new SasuSaku child, he sneakily threw in the design he already had for the SasuKarin child, either for himself or hoping that his fans would be able to pick up on it. I mean, look at them. (I tried to post the pictures but I caaaan't D:)
 
Her glasses are even red, like Karin's hair. I'm just saying, that's very STRANGE.
 
Now finally, let's move onto the SasuSaku and NaruHina families. They sure seem happy, right? With Sasuke leaving all the time and with Naruto always being gone at meetings so that he can't even spend time with his own son? Maybe Kishimoto's trying to tell us something with that, too. That they aren't happy because their families aren't what their families are supposed to be. Hm, hm, hmm... I don't know guys, I just know things are FISHY, to put it mildly. But I'm starting to think that maybe we shouldn't blame Kishi. Maybe it wasn't his fault. Maybe his editors and assistants forced him to change his manga so drastically that in the end, he couldn't even draw the last chapter himself. For me, Naruto ended in 698, because I think that's where Kis. You know how he said that he's known where Naruto was going to end since he began the story? Well I'm POSITIVE that's what he was talking about - the final battle with Naruto and Sasuke, with both of them losing their arms and Sasuke changing, etc. Not the shipping. 
 
In all actuality, I'm starting to feel sorry for Kishi, because he was made to botch his story and now everyone is calling him the worst storyteller ever, but in reality... it wasn't his fault.
 
All right, conspiracy theory over.

Edited by Win-chan, 21 November 2014 - 12:00 AM.

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#2 Fenris

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 07:26 PM

I already think its his editors, too, and he pushed NS for as long as he could. Even the DB says Naruto loves Sakura.

 

Plus there was that weird panel with Saladface saying to Sakura "About Bolt... he resembles me" then Sakura going SHHAAANAAARO. Makes me think that Naruto and Sakura boned on the side.

 

Lol. 

 

Screwed up, inconsistent ending.


Edited by Fenris, 07 November 2014 - 07:26 PM.

 
 
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#3 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 07:48 PM

I don't think it was about the money. I hate to say it, but this was Kishi's decision through and through. Keep in mind tht the last movie was full of NaruSaku moments and the highest highest grossing Naruto movie ever.

 

To put it franky, NaruSaku does not lose money; it does the opposite. We can try and blame the editors, SP or the rabid fans, but at the end of the day, this was Kishi's intentional decision. Therefore, I blame him full and through.


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#4 8Hogake

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 08:17 PM

I blame him.



#5 Nate River

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 08:37 PM

I blame him.


As do I.

I don't think he's the only one with his fingers on this, but he's a part of it.

#6 Narufan85

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 09:13 PM

As do I.

I don't think he's the only one with his fingers on this, but he's a part of it.

 

Even if he got pressure from the editors, he should have enough conviction in his vision for the story to say "NO!"



#7 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 09:28 PM

Once again I'm gonna borrow a quote from the Nostalgia Critic

"But Seuss got popular because he wrote what he wanted to see. Not what focused groups wanted to see."


I bet Seuss had editors telling him what to write that Seuss didn't like and Seuss said "No." That's what Kishi should've done.

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#8 Atheck

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 10:05 PM

Secondly, he didn't actually draw the epilogue. His assistants did. 

 

 

I have heard this allegation arise in several different rants now. But is there any evidence to show that Kishi did actually hand off the reigns of his brainchild's ending to editors/assistants to draw? I want there to be substantial proof that truly isn't what Kishi intended for his series. 



#9 Win-chan

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 10:34 PM

At this point, we don't have any proof of what Kishi intended. We just have logic, and honestly, with all the pieces, this is the only thing that makes sense to me. You can call Kishi a sell-out (and he probably is) but the truth is, we have no idea what the stakes were. We have no idea what concessions writers have to make in order to get their work past the editors. We can say that we would never cave in, and that's a nice thought in theory, but the fact is, we have no idea what it's like. All I know is that if I were Kishimoto, and I were forced to ruin my story, that I would be extremely upset. So, looking at it through that lens, I can't bring myself to hate him. 

 

On the other hand, if it turns out he just sucks, then we can all take pleasure in hating him. 


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#10 MolinMondo

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 10:36 PM

Naruto is his manga, he is to blame. Simply put, he's a sell out, whatever respect I had for his writing talent went down the drain, as did Naruto and Sakura's development.

 

Whether or not his editors pressured him into a bad ending is irrelevant in my understanding. It's all about integrity, I have no doubt in my mind that the NS fandom and Kishimoto himself were standing on the very same ship, he just didn't follow through, and now look what we have.


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#11 questdrivencollie

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 10:37 PM

The only people I actually hate are bullies...and according to my beliefs, we aren't supposed to hate them, either.

 

So I don't hate Kishimoto. I can't hate someone over something like this, that doesn't really hurt anybody. I'm just disappointed, is all. 


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#12 Nate River

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 10:53 PM

Even if he got pressure from the editors, he should have enough conviction in his vision for the story to say "NO!"


I don't know how easy that is, however, I can only go with what we have and his name is attached to it. I don't doubt others are involved, but I have trouble believing it's all their fault.

EDIT: I don't hate Kishimoto. I just think his writing (at least from Team Not Seven on) isn't very good.

#13 nikki1314

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 11:01 PM

Ha Imagine this:

 

Interviewer: So for the Last Question Kishi, What Prompted you to finish with SS/NH?

 

Kishi: I never intended to, BELIEVE IT. * Walks Out.

 

ROFL! :P


-Naruto ending gets released- 

Kishi: Honey, I’m home! 

His wife:

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#14 Shadow1275

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 11:03 PM

He doesn't get a pass for this. As the creator he has full control over any sort of character decisions. Some ppl say he received death threats but giving into them only serves to enhance the problem. If fans think that they have to send death threats in order to get the ending they want then what is the point of calling a work your own? Fans will continue to send threats bc it gets them what they want.

 

As for Kishi wanting to shock ppl, twists are fine. But twists only work when they are also supported and developed by evidence within the story, that is what makes them effective. However a twist without support feels like a desperate excuse for writing and just out of place.

 

Kishimoto is not the only person to blame, but he is the capital offender and has no excuse


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#15 Kurama

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 11:05 PM

As do I.

I don't think he's the only one with his fingers on this, but he's a part of it.

 

 

 

Even if he got pressure from the editors, he should have enough conviction in his vision for the story to say "NO!"

 

 

Once again I'm gonna borrow a quote from the Nostalgia Critic

"But Seuss got popular because he wrote what he wanted to see. Not what focused groups wanted to see."


I bet Seuss had editors telling him what to write that Seuss didn't like and Seuss said "No." That's what Kishi should've done.

 

 

My thoughts exactly.



#16 Pix

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 11:06 PM

Nah I blame him. Think about it. 

 

Regardless of the ships, he completely degraded Sakura back to part 1 (maybe even worse). He never showed the ending to team Taka. He let his assistants make Naruto somewhat of an abusive parent. He also let them make Sakura a housewife. And he put Sasuke and Sakura in a bad situation. And he never punished Sasuke for what he's done.

 

He let his editors walk all over his manga. It's never about the money. Never. When creating a story, no matter how much you may lose, you always create it for the sake of art, from beginning to the end. Money has no morality. Money has no feelings. Money can't tell your story. 

 

But he let it happened. And now he just lost half of his entire fanbase. So there you go. His fault.


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#17 mone_

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 11:21 PM

Very great points. But damn, I think he was not FORCED, he was PERSUADED. For money. Which is really sad.



#18 Broken Figurine

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 11:49 PM

My friend who isn't part of this site also told me that it was his assistant who wrote the ending--and that was where I first heard it from. I want to know where this information is coming from, too.  I was also considering under what circumstances would it make sense to go with NaruHina/SasuSaku and it came to my mind that maybe it was so that people would support the spin-off. I don't know how the numbers work or what the editor's viewpoints are to support it. If the ending was written by an assistant, I too would have to question WHY that is so. Why wouldn't an author write his own ending? I understand a chapter here or there if things are going on, but to not personally write the conclusion of your own story? 

 

There were a lot of ideas in the story that I disliked but I could live with, but an unsatisfying conclusion is missing what all the other instances had, which is hope for better writing. I had such high hopes that at the very least, after everything, I could see my favourite characters being handled well. After all the mess of destiny and conflict, I was hoping for a happy ending but this is... You're right, that it feels oddly cliched in the whole married with children, but has this really strange undertone. It was rushed, it was weird, and it gave us a lot of information but telling us nothing important. I don't know. I don't HATE Kishimoto, but I'm disappointed. He gave us something good and threw it away. It's frustrating and sad. I want to understand why, but I can't see it. This epilogue is so stupid XD



#19 sakuraharunorealfan

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 11:57 PM

um well i wear glasses and none of my family does which includes mom and dad they dont have them but i do....so.............


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#20 Win-chan

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 12:11 AM

But you also don't have the sharingan ;)


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