41 replies to this topic

[redragon88]

I'm curious to the opinion you guys have of his progress in the story.

 

In one hand there's a lot of hate towards him ever since the reveal of the masked man, but on the other we have to remember that this is the main antagonist (besides Sasuke) that Kishi has been building up ever since the creation of Kakashi Gaiden.

 

Is the amount of hate given to him fair or an overreaction? Could part of the hate simply come from the bitterness of being proven wrong? From what I hear people got really aggressive when claiming Tobi was not Obito, so after the reveal they might've taken it too hard, and thus prefer to unfairly criticize Obito to make themselves feel better.

 

Maybe since Obito is clearly a parallel to Naruto there was a too high expectation for his start of dakrness, but it being thanks to Rin's death might show how Obito in reality wasn't up to Naruto's standards of endurance. Despite the parallel Obito proves to be a lesser man thanks to the path he chose, and that's what will ultimately change with his redemption. If Obito gets redeemed he'll finally achieve Naruto's level of emotional fortitude.

 

From what I gather the moment Rin dies and he brings carnage to the mist ninja he concluded that the real world is a living hell and will just continue on and on forever if left alone. Therefore he seeks to change it with the moon's eye plan since he refuses to just go on living in hell.

 

While Obito does think his actions will bring happiness to everyone left to experience the illusion he's ultimately doing it for himself because the current world makes him sick. He seeks a world where he can be happy, and is unapologetic for his crimes maybe because he views the people wanting to preserve "Hell" as obstacles that needed to be put down.

 

Do I sympathize with his desire to see Rin once again? Yes

Do I sympathize with how he's chosen to view the world and his bonds? No

 

And I think that's how Kishi really intended it to be.

[rocci]

Obito is what would happen to naruto if you kill sakura :)

[redragon88]

Obito is what would happen to naruto if you kill sakura :)

 

Isn't it the point that Naruto wouldn't choose that path? The same way he chose not to kill Nagato?

[rocci]

It's true naruto will never took that path. But it's interesting to see because sakura always safe. And naruto rarely see her hurt be it mentally or physically

[Hanabi]

I just find Obito's reason "Rinrinrin" for killing his entire family, the whole of konoha too weak. But I do like kid Obito, because kid Obito is just like Naruto. He's even sweeter than Naruto that he bought flowers for Rin when he thought Rin asked him for a date.

[That Uchiha]

I have a love hate relationship with his character. I like him as an antagonist and all, he's bad ass and I just love him. But I just can't forget everything he's done so far. He is the cause of Sasuke, Naruto's, and pretty much everyone's problems. He even made Minato blame himself for everything. Ugh and his motivation, all for one girl, really? Rin died so he had to ruin everyone else's lives. That makes me hate him. I will forever love/hate Obito.

[redragon88]

The problem is that you guys seem to confuse his motivations somewhat.

 

He's not doing evil things out of bitterness of losing Rin, he's doing it to fulfill his own desires to find happiness. Obito is not like Sasuke, he's not looking for revenge, he's looking to live in a world that would give him eternal bliss.

 

His motivations are still very selfish and his actions are horrible, that's true, but I want people to have a clearer picture of the situation.

 

Obito seems to treat Rin's death as a wake up call from foolishly believing in hope. As if he was in hell all along but only after Rin was killed before his very eyes was when he finally understood it.

[Codus N]

I'm curious to the opinion you guys have of his progress in the story.

 

In one hand there's a lot of hate towards him ever since the reveal of the masked man, but on the other we have to remember that this is the main antagonist (besides Sasuke) that Kishi has been building up ever since the creation of Kakashi Gaiden.

 

Is the amount of hate given to him fair or an overreaction? Could part of the hate simply come from the bitterness of being proven wrong? From what I hear people got really aggressive when claiming Tobi was not Obito, so after the reveal they might've taken it too hard, and thus prefer to unfairly criticize Obito to make themselves feel better.

 

Maybe since Obito is clearly a parallel to Naruto there was a too high expectation for his start of dakrness, but it being thanks to Rin's death might show how Obito in reality wasn't up to Naruto's standards of endurance. Despite the parallel Obito proves to be a lesser man thanks to the path he chose, and that's what will ultimately change with his redemption. If Obito gets redeemed he'll finally achieve Naruto's level of emotional fortitude.

 

From what I gather the moment Rin dies and he brings carnage to the mist ninja he concluded that the real world is a living hell and will just continue on and on forever if left alone. Therefore he seeks to change it with the moon's eye plan since he refuses to just go on living in hell.

 

While Obito does think his actions will bring happiness to everyone left to experience the illusion he's ultimately doing it for himself because the current world makes him sick. He seeks a world where he can be happy, and is unapologetic for his crimes maybe because he views the people wanting to preserve "Hell" as obstacles that needed to be put down.

 

Do I sympathize with his desire to see Rin once again? Yes

Do I sympathize with how he's chosen to view the world and his bonds? No

 

And I think that's how Kishi really intended it to be.

 

First of all, I'd like to address the Anti-Tobito theorists. Ok, seriously. Did anyone not see it coming from a mile away? I have to facepalm everytime I saw someone saying if Kishi proved the Tobito theory true, the manga would suck and it's bad storytelling and an asspull yadda, yadda. Seriously? To be honest, I saw the Tobito thing as one of the best things that happened in the manga. Why? because it directly triggered a certain underdeveloped character's development. Fans had been begging for it, and now they don't want it? Hypocrites.

 

The moment Kishi revealed there would be a huge spotlight for Kakashi somewhere down in the future (waayyy back in 2008) I knew instantly Tobi had to be Obito. Because anyone with half a brain would know that if Kakashi were to get development, Obito has to be the trigger because Kakashi's present self was shaped by Obito himself.    

 

What I love about Obito is how I have a love/hate relationship with him. I love him for how this deranged psychopath will not back down from anything. Not even the freakin' Juubi can make him submit. What I also love is how twisted he is, standing on top of people's sufferings all so he could achieve his selfish happiness. And yet, the last one is also what I hate about him as well. Funny, isn't it?

 

Also, Obito's reasoning for doing all this.... I honestly am annoyed at how people say Obito's reasoning for all of this is lame and how he's a loser not meant to be sympathized. Why, you ask? because these people don't know it's like to lose your loved ones. I can't say that for myself, either but however I can empathize with Obito. If you push someone enough, they will snap. There are lots of cases like that in the world. Nagato lost his best friend and went off the deep end as well, so why can't this be applied to Obito? I'm seeing double standards here.

 

That said though, I really hate how 619 cheapened Obito's reasoning. It's one of the worst chapters ever IMO. But I wouldn't be surprised if Obito is aware of it and doesn't care because of his belief that genetics doesn't shape who you are, it's how you shape your character itself. That, and genetics is a bunch of flawed reasoning to explain what people can't explain (in his opinion).      

[mmrc27]

personally, i really do like obito even though he did all those evil stuffs. maybe he's too broken, confused and hatred somehow eats him so he's like that. i kinda feel for him.

[Awes9]

The most terrible villain I have ever seen, for me he is just pathetic, I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but when his whole motivation for doing most of what he's doing is Rin I just can't.  Half his body is crushed think about Rin, Rin died world = hell,  kill his family try to kill his sensei all because Rin, Madara tries to control him think about Rin, Juubi is taking over more Rin. All I see is Rin, Rin and more Rin. Doesn't this dude have a family ? if at least Kishi fleshed his character more to explain why he's so obsessed with Rin over anything else but we didn't get any of that he looks so one dimensional it's really pathetic. Also why is Rin so important when she is nothing more than a plot device ? I can't feel Obito's suffering because I honestly don't care about Rin at all and Kishi has done nothing to make me care about her.

While Obito being Tobi is a great idea because a dark Naruto would make a great FV and tie well into the plot, the main themes of the manga and that his goal is sound his motivation is just plain terrible and that's very generous.  Nothing can explain for me the 180° Obito's character did, it absolutely makes no sense.

[Dkey]

But Obito is just like any other villain in the story. Everyone lost someone and wants to change the world by force.

 

Obito wants Rin to be alive again.

[Awes9]

But Obito is just like any other villain in the story. Everyone lost someone and wants to change the world by force.
 
Obito wants Rin to be alive again.

Nagato was living in a village which was constantly at war, his parents were killed right before his eyes, he becomes friends with Yahiko and Konan trains with Jiraya, creates Akatsuki with Yahiko to bring change but then loses it when Yahiko dies. Yahiko's death was the straw that broke the camel back that's why I can perfectly understand where Nagato comes from. Obito on the other hand it is all about Rin Rin Rin, I don't remember Nagato angsting every seconds about Yahiko, his background story is believable and explains his mindset, many events shaped him Yahiko's death being the detonator. Even his goal was better, Nagzto wanted real change whereas Obito wants to see Rin, a girl we know absolutely nothing about and who is nothing more than a plot device, because he can't accept her death, that's sincerely pathetic. Obito's flashback and 180° is pure nonsense especially when we look at other character's background, and the stupid explanation about the sharingan won't change my opinion on this matter.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Meh, I still don't like the fact that Tobi is Obito.  I kinda liked the fact that I thought of Tobi as the personification of the Shinobi Cycle of Hatred.  Thus, I thought that his mask isn't to cover up his identity, but that he HAD no identity, just a symbol, a walking Idea. Kinda like the emphasis on masks and symbols in the Dark Knight Saga.

 

I would've liked it if Tobi also turned out to be an unknown victim of said cycle of hatred.  A villager whose home was caught in the crossfire during one of the Shinobi Wars, a no-name grunt ninja, embittered by the constant wars by the huge clans and Hidden Villages, an orphan like Nagato, Yahiko, and Konan, etc. who rose from a nobody to nightmare because of the violence.  In this way, we would've seen that the violence affects everyone, not just the Uchihas, Senjus, Hyuugas, etc.

 

Hell, considering Tobi's propensity for manipulation, there's still a very small possibility that he's just using Obito's body and memories to manipulate everyone (this situation's probably highly unlikely, to the point of impossibility, given what we've seen, but it would've been interesting).

[Codus N]

And yet, if things went down like that, we would've never gotten Kakashi's development. Seriously, do the fans really want Kakashi's development or not? pick one. I'll admit though, that the above would've been interesting. But I'd rather pick Obito over a no-name if in the end we get some badly-needed Kakashi development. 

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I like Obito, but thank god he's not the last villain, he loved Rin and she died because he swore that he would protect her, i mean looking at Naruto, Neji died and he almost give up, but what if instead of Neji it was Sakura, we dont know how he would react to this.

I mean Naruto was proved on any possible field, but never was tested on his heart which is where hurt the most.

I'll only judge Obito if Naruto got tested on this matter.

[rocci]

@darkrest
That's why in chapter 599 I jump in joy knowing naruto love will use as the tnj bullet. And yes sakura always save, I don't know for the next chapter.

[Lid]

I don't like Obito, which is sad because I used to.

 

Obito was a great character originally, back in Kakashi Gaiden, he gave Kakashi a real meaning of what it's like to be a ninja.

 

Obito had such a strong resolve and belief in what it meant to be a ninja and be part of a team. Seeing him snap the way he did, not trying to really seek answers, just completely going off the deep end, it didn't feel natural. I just don't really buy into the idea.

 

I agree with the statements that Nagato was handled better.

[Derock]

Meh, I still don't like the fact that Tobi is Obito.  I kinda liked the fact that I thought of Tobi as the personification of the Shinobi Cycle of Hatred.  Thus, I thought that his mask isn't to cover up his identity, but that he HAD no identity, just a symbol, a walking Idea. Kinda like the emphasis on masks and symbols in the Dark Knight Saga.

 

I would've liked it if Tobi also turned out to be an unknown victim of said cycle of hatred.  A villager whose home was caught in the crossfire during one of the Shinobi Wars, a no-name grunt ninja, embittered by the constant wars by the huge clans and Hidden Villages, an orphan like Nagato, Yahiko, and Konan, etc. who rose from a nobody to nightmare because of the violence.  In this way, we would've seen that the violence affects everyone, not just the Uchihas, Senjus, Hyuugas, etc.

 

Hell, considering Tobi's propensity for manipulation, there's still a very small possibility that he's just using Obito's body and memories to manipulate everyone (this situation's probably highly unlikely, to the point of impossibility, given what we've seen, but it would've been interesting).

 

I'm the same way as you. I rather liked if Tobi was someone else, as an immortal Madara like Obito claimed to be back when we first saw Pain and Konan. Go figure we now have Madara as an Edo Tensei?

 

But I liked your idea of Tobi better, shadow. That gives him more of interesting villian, instead of sudden "resurrection".

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

I'm the same way as you. I rather liked if Tobi was someone else, as an immortal Madara like Obito claimed to be back when we first saw Pain and Konan. Go figure we now have Madara as an Edo Tensei?

 

But I liked your idea of Tobi better, shadow. That gives him more of interesting villian, instead of sudden "resurrection".

Despite we would never know about Obito's past and how Rin died.

Tobi had to be Obito because it had to give a conclusion to Kakashi's character and  resolution to his former team.

The linking of kakashi's team to Team 7 and explaining how Naruto Sakura and Sasuke ended up being on the same team, and real reason why Kakashi chose Sasuke to be his student.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 29 August 2013 - 06:44 PM.

[Inferno180]

Really torn on it, I mean he was mysterious as Tobi but Kishi mislead everyone to think he was Madara. I didn't pay attention to the who is tobi theories back in the day.

 

Obito himself, well as a villain I'm kinda torn between good villain as a powerhouse and counterpart of Naruto for his morals and actions. On the other side just outright kinda pathetic in the long run, I mean his pain originated over losing Rin. I mean he does say he is doing his actions for more than just Rin but we still see Rin in his thoughts a lot, I mean a lot. Yeah he lost hope but seriously, one deal in life is, its just not fair, you gotta deal with life. Obito just went insane all ways to being a villain. He has absolute power now, is practically invulnerable (not even Naruto and maybe not even Hashirama can crank out enough Sage jutsu to harm him without risk of dying). He has all the power but none of the backbone to make an appealing villain. In Avatar the last airbender, Azula was practically a good villain, manipulative, sadistic, calm, intelligent, brings others down on their flaws, she was practically a b**** but she was a B**** we loved. Best part is she was technically never beaten in a head on fight, she just broken down mentally and Zuko was evened out with her, she only tricked Zuko and ended up being trapped by Katara. Azula was a good villain. Otherwise for Naruto, Madara is good because least he is just a villain who is evil for the sake of power and others abandoning him. He didn't even ever care for Obito trying to force him to use Rinne Tensei and even had a back up plan like a good villain in case of associate betrayal. Thats good planning.