This topic is locked
Well since the 631 stuff came, it caused quite a ruckus among those who are against NS or just Sakura. All I can say though is something interesting caught my eye, it was not the reponses, rather its how some of the arguements among the anti-ns crowd are actually able to be counter argued or contradict the arguements of others within the same fanbase. I've always looked for reasons towards why some people advocate certain stuff for their pairings, and yes it has ranged from believeable to outright insane, but compared to 615, there was a lot of rational explaination on both sides, there were some logical explainations on the NH side that did make some sense but still some of those fans admitted that some other stuff had to be addressed such as Naruto's feelings for Sakura or Hinata, showing if he even stopped loving her.
Now just a few weeks ago, some theories like Sakura getting a power up or Minato meeting her would have seemed like an insane dream, other fandoms would laugh at us cause well, to the majority of the fandom, its okay for our pairing to be treated like crap. Rather than look into stuff or reasons for Sakura's, role, its easier to just bash her for every little thing. Hinata and her fanbase are perfect, nothing can ever prove them wrong. Everything they ever said was right. 
Okay sarcism aside, what I am speaking of is, 631 hit such a point in haters, to me, there is just a level of inconsistency to even try and find stuff which is believeable now. Don't get me wrong, NS is not canon yet, I have listened to some counter arguements, but compared to 615, that amount of rationality just went down a lot. Only real counter arguement to this I heard was, "Hinata may have overheard Naruto and Minato, this may impact her, maybe she will asert herself." This was said by a nice rational NH fan I sometimes talk to elsewhere, basically one who acknoledges the flaws and hurdles of their character and the stuff by the manga and only by the manga, she was the type of fan who said, "Yeah when it comes to NH I use the manga pain, not what was in ep 166 as much as I loved it."
Now this is what I mean, pre-631 everyone in both camps when it came to Kushina said, ohh she must mean Hinata, or funny how all this stuff will happen. What did Kushina say on the night she died with Minato? She told Naruto to find a dream, save his money, be careful of Jiriaya, get lots of sleep, take baths, eat his veggies, get friends (a few), follow the shinobi vices, and finally yes, Find a girl like Kushina. So what happened? He got a dream, to be hokage, he saves his money, he was careful and had to put up with Jiriaya, gets too much sleep, enjoys baths, promised to start eating veggies, made many friends, and followed the shinobi vices. Everything check and accounted for. Wait, save the girl like Kushina, well Minato said "She is similar to Kushina." Kushina could only have used like in the term similarity. What words relate to similarity? Familier and Resemblance. All these terms relate to the context in which Minato used in many manga sites for this translation. He thought Sakura was like Kushina.
Now this is where I find something very very funny, for the other bases of us always being wrong, I have never seen bigger divides between arguements in one fanbase that just continues to be twisted among itself. What I mean is, pre-631, all camps said this basically, "Kushina is referring to (Insert girl of fanbase) obviously, her words mattered." Basically we said Sakura, others said Hinata. Now this is where so many divides start, there are as I said many, many arguements that always go against NS, but never before have I seen so many arguements that counter themselves or can just be turned back in the same way, here are a few I mean:
1. Pre-631, Kushinas words mattered, now with 631 the anti-NS fanbases are saying it does not matter.
-So Kushinas words are of no importance because of Minato? Others say Minato got it wrong, it would change with Kushina, okay so please tell me why this late with a battle against the ten tailed demon god beast, should Kushina be revived to correct this? Who else listened to the final words of Kushina aside from Minato? Was Kurama listening before he was crammed into Naruto? Was Hiruzen within enough range to hear this? Well if Kurama actually gave a dam what she said, maybe he can advocate this but Minato is the only one making this connection now huh?
2. Minato's words are wrong, wait till he sees Hinata:
-So Minato does not know what he is talking about? This brings me back to another point, not everything is said for the characters to figure out, some dialouge is meant for the reader to interpret. Basically, what Kushina said, Minato is advocating in other words, hint, hint, maybe Sakura has something with Naruto later on, maybe.
3. Minato was dead for 16 years, he knows nothing about his own son.
-This is a good one, some arguements here say wait till he sees Hinata, hey guess what? This arguement contradicts itself, if he does not know Naruto, how can he know Hinata?
-Others use this to say, he met Naruto in the pain arc, he saw Hinata "die" by pain and how much it ment to Naruto. Funny if Minato was aware of all this, wouldn't he be aware of his own son's feelings for both Sakura and Hinata? Minato can only have been assumed to resurface in a short time, not have been present within Naruto's mind all his life. Minato said it himself, he was set to reappear within Naruto's phsyce if the 8th tail was unleashed, basically as a reset button for the seal putting it back at max power.
4. Kurama supports NH
-How does Kurama support NH? Its true Kurama knows Naruto the best, he is literally inside him. He never makes any mention of anyone aside from Naruto, his parents, Madara, and the Sage of 6 paths. Heck he has met very few people personally aside from Kakashi, Bee, Guy, Sasuke, and Obito. In 615 he only advoacted upon the speech of sacrfice hinata told him. How about this? What if Kurama himself made a remark about Sakura? In fact if he knows about how Naruto felt about Sasuke then its safe to assume he knows about how exactly Naruto feels about other people, this includes Sakura and Hinata and how Naruto himself feels about them. Just Kurama has not said anything yet.
5. The Sakura-Kushina parallel was said to cut out the possibilty of NS, showing that its a kushina-kushina.
-God I love this arguement, how about this, arguements from before said Minato was wrong and did not count, while others said that Hinata is still like Minato and Naruto is like Kushina, okay again, which are we in the other camps supposed to listen too? If Minato is wrong or hated in the anti-ns group now treated as a traitor, how can you simlutaneously use the Hinata-Minato arguement?
I can make a simple counter arguement to this: Haters of NS, you said Kushina's words mattered and now they don't your group is always right to us, "poor delusional NS fans" so who should we believe? You said Minato's words don't matter yet others in your crowd say they do saying its still in effect so who is right? You can't use both, you cannot be right and wrong at the same time, that canels out the purpose of this stuff. Here is a better answer: Kushina said find a girl like your mother, not a girl like your father. So in effect, going on either one, who does Hinata equal to you brillant scholars of everything Naruto? Nh still becomes a Kushina-Kushina just like NS as you claim, Hinata cannot be like Kushina and Minato at the same time, Naruto cannot be like Kushina and Minato at the same time.
How about this too: NaruHina is just a Naruto-Naruto relationship, Hinata idolizes Naruto right? When you idolize someone, you want to be like them, Hinata wants to be like Naruto, therefore if NS is a Kushina-Kushina then NH is a Naruto-Naruto.
6. 631 was anti-NS, it proves Naruto and Sakura would have a bad relationship together.
-How was it anti-NS? Please, you need more than Minato's Sakura-Kushina relation, some of you say his words invoke Kushina Kushina, others say it does not matter, so who is right in your case?
-What was so "bad" about the Naruto-Sakura interaction here? Some people claim its just comic but still, Kishi put that Minato-seeing Sakura-thinking of Kushina stuff there now didn't he?
7. How can Naruto do that to Hinata after 615? He is a jerk!
-Heres something good, you cannot have your pairing come true if you have a lot of anger at one of the two required for it now can you? Many are complaining about how Naruto just friendzoned her, at this point doesn't Hinata deserve someone better then? Someone who would not constantly forget her? Look at it this way, Sakura would suffer by your logic to someone as forgetful as Naruto if she had a relation with him. Otherwise Naruto and Hinata are both equally jerks, Naruto for friendzoning Hinata like this and Hinata for seemingly glossing over Neji's death.
8. Naruto stopped loving Sakura since 469 he said it
-Ah the old land of iron confession, again don't know why people constantly forget this but Sakura tried to confess to Naruto as a means to scarfice her own desries and make amends for the promise she put on him. She did it not out of love, but for his own wellbeing, as Sai even said after 469, he said, "She was thinking of your feelings." Sakura was ready to have Naruto hate her, if it meant at least freeing him from the promise which could have been a potential death sentince.
9. NS is just a red herring, as of 631 it still is, face it.
-Dear lord, this old claim, let me again for the 50th freaking time say this simple arguement: If NS is just humor, a joke, and a misleading claim, why and just why should Kishi have even bothered using it so much to make it nothing, rather than build NH more? Its like you want to compete 2 houses, you focus on one (NS) a lot and another one much less (NH) then you just for whatever reason break down the (NS) one for nothing, all that time wasted and you only have a small house (NH) left, so in the grand scheme of things, after all that time, what would be the point, I mean why not just bother building the smaller house more rather than putting so much effort in the larger one which was just destoryed for no reason or purpose?
10. Naruto loves Hinata and Sakura will never turn away from Sasuke:
- Possibly the biggest arguement full of so many holes, its not even funny, please explain, when did Naruto ever say he was into Hinata? When did he ever just outright doubt his feelings for Sakura? Why would kish bring a deep reason for his relation like Sakura in chapter 457 and just break something like that so soon only 12 chapters later? What sense does that even mean? All we got for Naruto and Hinata's relation between pain and 615 was some quick tiny flashback of what she did in the pain arc, yet still nothing, now 615 came and went, so how exactly in these 2 events is Naruto suddenly going to change his merits?
Its true there was some confusion between this after the land of iron because Naruto never said he was over Sakura, but as of 631, he calls Sakura his girlfriend, and just to say this, Kishi could have just made Naruto say no, but hey to all the geniuses against NS, its to just mislead us again or just fanservice, but if Naruto really had strong feelings for hinata, woundn't this count as him being unfaithful to his own feelings for Hinata then? You don't have a crush on someone and say someone else is your girlfriend, woundn't this still make Hinata think Naruto has feelings for Sakura? Too many holes.
Also for Sakura, what rule or law in this universe ever said she could not turn away from Sasuke? Sasuke still gives no dam, he isnt going to suddenly turn and "return" Sakura's love, you realize how stupid for the story that would be? What is to honestly say Sakura cannot turn to loving Naruto? I mean Naruto changes all those around him, yet its ironic that the 2 goals he has for the 2 most important people to him, have not come, those 2 people are Sasuke and Sakura, he wants acknolwdgement from Sasuke and love from Sakura. It seems that for many haters, they expect the ending to be Naruto get Sasuke back, just hurls him on Sakura, then goes to do stuff with Hinata, thats it. Seriously, if NS is a big red herring, why all these scenes of intense deep stuff between NS and hardly any of these big emotional scenes for NH?
The worst part is, there are hundreds of more arguements out there and its getting impossible to know which are logical to which are just plain desperate.
Haters, I don't know whats going on, but for NS, our ship has been struck 3 times, (469, 540, and 615) apparently we are just zombies and always wrong as you claim, so guide us, but we are lost and have no idea which of these theories or claims to follow, when a fanbase is contradicting itself, its making more holes in its ship than the intial event that caused it.This is what is going on with 631 and the haters of NS, who is right when there are so many reasons against it, those arguements counter themselves.
Haters, I ship NS, but hey me and the rest, because your logic is never wrong and our ship is dead, we need guidance, but who should we follow when there are so many holes in your own ships?
Okay again ending the sarcasim, but seriously, haters, you need to do better than this, that simple Sakura-Kushina stuff, it put in such a divide, who has the right reasons? Some say Kushina is not a matter, others say she is. There are just too many holes in your own thoughts right now. NS is not canon, but for one simple remark to do this, its only showing how flawed things can become when your "perfect and spot on claims" are losing viabiity to that.
I can tell you something you may want to for once, consider from the "terribble and worthless NS fanbase" our ship was hit 3 times, we dealt with it. Its still alive no matter what you believe, its not by just what the manga shows, its how your own arguements can be easily countered or contradict others. An arguement can answer or counter another arguement, and you guys are doing that plenty. So as a NS fan i offer this advice, perhaps many of you are expecting too much, setting expectations so high that you hope they come but they don't. We had a few hopes for Sakura these past few years, look what happens, bam bam bam, chapters 469, 540, and 615. Yet they all turned out fine and ours is still here. Just weeks ago, stuff like what we predicted with Sakura would be laughed at and just insulted everywhere but now look, its there. Minato made a parallel link to Sakura and Kushina, Sakura got a powerup. Its now the time to fight the ten tails, its team 7's time. This means the main cast, Naruto, Sakura, Sasuke, and Kakashi. Not team 7 plus Hinata, she had her time. Maybe until haters keep their expectations within realistic proportions, then perhaps things will sound more reaosnable, but as of right now, the anti-ns crowd, these arguements are full of so many holes, its just at this point, who can we even listen to when NS haters are contradicting other NS haters?
But hey, I'm a NS fan, we are always wrong as you claim, so until more comes in the manga, I'm waiting to see a logical one rather than let your own reasons tear yourselves apart.
