14 replies to this topic

[Jirucchi]

Okay, so I has gotten into some debates lately (I got pissed alot, and always trying to ignore them, but in the end, I got my butt dragged into the debates by myself ._. ), and I just want to hear your opinion(s) about this 'opinion' of NH fans.

I told him (my debate opponent) that Naruto won't easily give up on Sakura and throw away all his hard works and sacrifices to get Sakura, just because Hinata's confession.

And he replied with,

I do think he would throw it away if he got to know her better, he's been chasing this emo kid for so long just to make her happy,and all that hard work is already getting trashed away every second that she still loves Sasuke.
And hell if you asked Naruto about all the times he's saved her, he probably be like,"I was just doing what I do." or he could be hurt if all his sacrifice went to hell, how do we know.

We were talking about RTN (Road to Ninja) before that RTN is full with NS moments, and I told him that if MK doesn't want NS to get any development anymore and if he'll put NH in the end, he wouldn't put Sakura joined Naruto to genjutsu world, there. Because it'd looks like he wants to trolling us, NS fans.

Then he replied with,

........................................She's the second most important character on the show, she's the female lead, Naruto by himself wouldn't have been as fun, and who wants to see a extremely nice Sakura, which would be creepy. Also I think it would've been a plot hole just for Sakura not to understand Naruto's pain since she was in the same position.

Most of the time I'm quite enjoying the debates since it makes us have more faith in NS, and getting more sure that it'll happen. But once they start being annoying, it really lure out our 'madness' xD

Btw, tell me if I post this thread in the wrong section o-o

[GlucoseGlutton]

Umm I'm not much of a debater so I don't know if I'll much of a help but even if that's the case why weren't there
any Naruhina moments in the whole movie? If Hinata is going to get with Naruto in the end per say wouldn't Kishi have at least put in one or two Naruhina moments in the movie? Instead we have him carying Sakura bridal style for example and if not that we have Kushina saying that he acts "good" in front of the hero's child (Sakura) but the only times Hinata is even in the movie he doesn't even really talk to her. When she threatens Sakura he pushes them apart and runs off with Sakura. Hope that helped

The Narusaku debate thread might also help

Edited by Bubbleyum, 20 August 2012 - 03:08 AM.

[Jirucchi]

Ooh! Now that you are talking about Kushina, it sure reminds me that NS moments there, are similar to MinaKushi moments xD And true about no 'real' NH moments there. That really helps me! I won't remember about that bridal style if you didn't mention it Thank you very much

Is it fine if I post this on NS debate thread too? I mean, I thought they are only talking about reasons why we don't really like other pairing or why we love NS xD;

[TheClover]

Well firstly, yeah, you posted in the right place, but as @Bubbleyum said, it might help you more if you put this in the debate thread.

I do think he would throw it away if he got to know her better, he's been chasing this emo kid for so long just to make her happy,and all that hard work is already getting trashed away every second that she still loves Sasuke.
And hell if you asked Naruto about all the times he's saved her, he probably be like,"I was just doing what I do." or he could be hurt if all his sacrifice went to hell, how do we know.

Urgh. The first part looks so wrong. "He would throw it away if he got to know her better"? Is this person serious? How much more can Naruto get to know her? He understands her pain and suffering so well that he selflessly tosses away his own feelings to see her smile. How could you love a person more if you no longer care whether they return your feelings or not, as long as they're happy?

It's most certainly not getting trashed away. Sakura acknowledged everything that he's doing for her. To relieve him of his burden, she tried to get him to come back and give up on Sasuke by confessing. Then Sakura tried to kill Sasuke herself to get all the suffering over with, despite more pain that it could cause afterwards. And if that person points out that she couldn't kill him, you should ask them how they'd feel if they had to kill their first love. I don't understand how attempting to kill Sasuke for the sake of Naruto puts Sasuke higher up on the pedestal.

I personally don't think she's "in love" with Sasuke anymore...more like slowly getting over him, realizing that he isn't the same person that she used to know. Even she understands that he's become a lost cause. It's really only Naruto now who believes in him, is what I think.

I'm not sure what they're trying to point out about RTN...but I'll try to help as best as I can anyway. The point of the genjutsu world is that it's superficial. It's supposed to represent a perfect life, which isn't realistic. So in my opinion, by throwing NH and SS in there, he's kinda trolling the fans right there...kinda like saying, "Are you crazy enough to believe in this?" So having Naruto and Sakura in the real world is like a slap in the face to them.

I hope I addressed your points well enough.

[GlucoseGlutton]

Ooh! Now that you are talking about Kushina, it sure reminds me that NS moments there, are similar to MinaKushi moments xD And true about no 'real' NH moments there. That really helps me! I won't remember about that bridal style if you didn't mention it Thank you very much

Is it fine if I post this on NS debate thread too? I mean, I thought they are only talking about reasons why we don't really like other pairing or why we love NS xD;

Yup . But I think @DemonicxWings argument is much better haha it makes mine look pretty half a**ed. You're welcome though

Edited by Bubbleyum, 20 August 2012 - 04:36 AM.

[Phantom_999]

Err..... Okay here's the deal. This Is an NS section of the forum so I suppose it should be moved to some where else like Naruto general, maybe. and Second for fair warning the thread is NOT going to bash NH fans. we are merely observing their arguments and discuss why it would or would not work out, nothing more. There will be no saying that they are idiots and the like, or posting anything that would cause major upset. Even if you know the rules lets try to keep this peaceful okay? So anyways he thinks that Naruto will toss his feelings aside for Sakura and move on to Hinata if he got to know her better? Gee, almost 600 chapters, two anime series, and several whole movies ( that are not Canon) and he's still no closer to understanding Hinata anymore than he ever was. I WONDER WHY?? Hmm. Now how many times have they been on the same panel in the entirety of the manga thus far? reading.... reading.... reading.... can someone answer please.

Edited by Phantom_999, 20 August 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[Jirucchi]

Well firstly, yeah, you posted in the right place, but as @Bubbleyum said, it might help you more if you put this in the debate thread.

Urgh. The first part looks so wrong. "He would throw it away if he got to know her better"? Is this person serious? How much more can Naruto get to know her? He understands her pain and suffering so well that he selflessly tosses away his own feelings to see her smile. How could you love a person more if you no longer care whether they return your feelings or not, as long as they're happy?

It's most certainly not getting trashed away. Sakura acknowledged everything that he's doing for her. To relieve him of his burden, she tried to get him to come back and give up on Sasuke by confessing. Then Sakura tried to kill Sasuke herself to get all the suffering over with, despite more pain that it could cause afterwards. And if that person points out that she couldn't kill him, you should ask them how they'd feel if they had to kill their first love. I don't understand how attempting to kill Sasuke for the sake of Naruto puts Sasuke higher up on the pedestal.

I personally don't think she's "in love" with Sasuke anymore...more like slowly getting over him, realizing that he isn't the same person that she used to know. Even she understands that he's become a lost cause. It's really only Naruto now who believes in him, is what I think.

I'm not sure what they're trying to point out about RTN...but I'll try to help as best as I can anyway. The point of the genjutsu world is that it's superficial. It's supposed to represent a perfect life, which isn't realistic. So in my opinion, by throwing NH and SS in there, he's kinda trolling the fans right there...kinda like saying, "Are you crazy enough to believe in this?" So having Naruto and Sakura in the real world is like a slap in the face to them.

I hope I addressed your points well enough.

I think the 'her' that he was talking about is Hinata, because like what you said, the first part would look so wrong if the 'her' that he was talking about is Sakura. And yeah, I think the same too. Sakura might still thinking about Sasuke sometime, but her love isn't as big and as much as before anymore. And about that RTN thingy, Lol xD But honestly I feel sorry about HN & SS fans since they think that RTN must have alot of HN and SS scene, yet what happened was totally the opposites. And thank you very much too for everything you've said! I quote some of your sentences too on my debate xD

Err..... Okay here's the deal. This Is an NS section of the forum so I suppose it should be moved to some where else like Naruto general, maybe. and Second for fair warning the thread is NOT going to bash NH fans. we are merely observing their arguments and discuss why it would or would not work out, nothing more. There will be no saying that they are idiots and the like, or posting anything that would cause major upset. Even if you know the rules lets try to keep this peaceful okay? So anyways he thinks that Naruto will toss his feelings aside for Sakura and move on to Hinata if he got to know her better? Gee, almost 600 chapters, two anime series, and several whole movies ( that are not Canon) and he's still no closer to understanding Hinata anymore than he ever was. I WONDER WHY?? Hmm. Now how many tomes have the been on the same panel in the entirety of the manga thus far? reading.... reading.... reading.... can someone answer please.

:O I put this in the wrong section? I saw some people posted things like this too in this section, so I thought this is the right section ;~; Should I really move this thread? I don't know how to do that, btw xD;

And don't worry, I never bashing on HN or other pairing no matter how mad/ frustrated I am with them Yeah, he also said something like "Also Naruto and Sakura can change any minute, Naruto could fall for Hinata instead of Sakura". He isn't wrong at all that there might be still a chance that Naruto could starts loving Hinata (even if only 1-2% -shrugs-), but saying that Naruto and Sakura can change any minute is just impossibru (I mean, after all that development and hard times they went through together, how is it possible?)

And yeah, like what you said, they don't have much scene of them being together. And it's weird honestly, how some of them also took the fillers as hints, yet when NS fans do something like that they say something like "fillers do not count" xD; Thank you very much too, anyway for your opinions! xD

@Bubbleyum:
No, yours is great too xD It also saves my time from thinking Lol


Btw, is the spoiler code not working anymore here? o-o

[tricksie]

Err..... Okay here's the deal. This Is an NS section of the forum so I suppose it should be moved to some where else like Naruto general, maybe. and Second for fair warning the thread is NOT going to bash NH fans. we are merely observing their arguments and discuss why it would or would not work out, nothing more. There will be no saying that they are idiots and the like, or posting anything that would cause major upset. Even if you know the rules lets try to keep this peaceful okay?

Yep, Phantom's exactly right. Generally we try to stay away from repeating arguments from other forums just to reignite old fires. If the topic is worth discussing, then it's ok. But it's a no-no to jump on a bashing bandwagon, of characters or people from other threads. As Phantom said, just stick to arguing about their arguments, and everything should be fine!

(And yeah, a better place to start with debateable NS questions would be in the debate thread. But for right now we'll the threads unmerged.)

Oh and welcome aboard Jirucchi!

[Phantom_999]

Congrats for your Promotion to ANBU tricksie !!!^_^ Oh and here's a a question that would cause some REAL head scratching for NH. WHY hasn't Naruto asked Hinata out on a date yet??? :3 Seems strange that a Guy who is not the shy type would not ask Hinata out if He had ANY feelings for her since he always wants to go out with Sakura. and if they say that Naruto's feelings will change you can hit it home by asking "then why is their no indication of his changing feelings?" That is only viable if he's shows surest proof that he has given up on Sakura and even a typical shonen romance manga will at least show that a guy is interested in a girl and gradually improve their relationship yet Naruto hasn't done that with Hinata. Hope that helps

Edited by Phantom_999, 20 August 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[Gravenimage]

Congrats for your Promotion to ANBU tricksie !!!^_^ Oh and here's a a question that would cause some REAL head scratching for NH. WHY hasn't Naruto asked Hinata out on a date yet??? :3 Seems strange that a Guy who is not the shy type would not ask Hinata out if He had ANY feelings for her since he always wants to go out with Sakura. and if they say that Naruto's feelings will change you can hit it home by asking "then why is their no indication of his changing feelings?" That is only viable if he's shows surest proof that he has given up on Sakura and even a typical shonen romance manga will at least show that a guy is interested in a girl and gradually improve their relationship yet Naruto hasn't done that with Hinata. Hope that helps

Hm...interesting question with an obvious answer. Because correct me if I'm wrong hasn't Kishi showed to the reader that he's been in love with Sakura since ch 3? He introduced her as" as pretty girl I really like". Honestly Kishi has probably gone tire of showing the obvious that Naruto will always love Sakura and not Hinata.

[redragon88]

........................................She's the second most important character on the show, she's the female lead, Naruto by himself wouldn't have been as fun, and who wants to see a extremely nice Sakura, which would be creepy. Also I think it would've been a plot hole just for Sakura not to understand Naruto's pain since she was in the same position.

Kishi didn't choose Sakura as a main lead in the movie just because she's a main character, she chose her because he wanted Sakura to be the girl to experience this along with Naruto.

If the female role was just for the sake of having someone normal besides Naruto in the AU world the Kishi could've created a random princess character to star alongside Naruto. But that wasn't the case because Kishi is truly fond of the relationship Naruto and Sakura share, therefore wanted the duo to experience this crisis together.

Additionally, if Kishi wasn't interested in a potential future relationship between them then he wouldn't have:

- Made Naruto act happy at the beginning because he thought they were going on a date.
- Made Minato and Kushina tease Naruto about his relationship with Sakura.
- Made Naruto rescue Sakura in a similar manner to which Minato rescued Kushina when she got captured the day Naruto was born. Bridal style parallel.
- Made Naruto ask Sakura for another date immediately after the got back to the real world. (the guy works fast )
- Made Sakura tell Naruto, in reply to the previous, that they just came back from the longest date ever. So she wants the whole ordeal to be seen as a date.

Kishi didn't have to include any of those scene for the movie to remain the same, but he chose to because he is fond of the ever growing relationship Naruto and Sakura share.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Kishi didn't choose Sakura as a main lead in the movie just because she's a main character, she chose her because he wanted Sakura to be the girl to experience this along with Naruto.

If the female role was just for the sake of having someone normal besides Naruto in the AU world the Kishi could've created a random princess character to star alongside Naruto. But that wasn't the case because Kishi is truly fond of the relationship Naruto and Sakura share, therefore wanted the duo to experience this crisis together.

Additionally, if Kishi wasn't interested in a potential future relationship between them then he wouldn't have:

- Made Naruto act happy at the beginning because he thought they were going on a date.
- Made Minato and Kushina tease Naruto about his relationship with Sakura.
- Made Naruto rescue Sakura in a similar manner to which Minato rescued Kushina when she got captured the day Naruto was born. Bridal style parallel.
- Made Naruto ask Sakura for another date immediately after the got back to the real world. (the guy works fast )
- Made Sakura tell Naruto, in reply to the previous, that they just came back from the longest date ever. So she wants the whole ordeal to be seen as a date.

Kishi didn't have to include any of those scene for the movie to remain the same, but he chose to because he is fond of the ever growing relationship Naruto and Sakura share.

This.

You can't really say because of their main character status. Remember, it can easily work with AU! Sakura, but no, he place the real Sakura in the AU. It's no brainer that out of all K11, Sakura understands Naruto the most. His goal to be Hokage, his friendship with Sasuke, his feelings as a "weapon," his feelings in general (not liking Sai at first, his pain), and so much more. She went through a lot with him. Kishi knows her character the most, so Kishi is fond of it and thus, continues to develop her understanding Naruto by being him in terms of loneliness.

For anti, Kishi could have easily done NH in there as well as SS being "healthy," but he chose to do nothing about NH and squash SS further. If he only make NS the healthiest of them all, then that would mean he is fond of this pairing the most and most likely an endgame pairing. I recently realized that there are manga/anime, especially Shounen, that only ends with one pairing, while the rest are "You decide". For example, FMA only has one confirmed pairing. The other ones you can say they are, but there's no written stone, so you can only say they are or not. That said NaruSaku can be the one that's confirmed in the end while the rest are "you decide."

[TheClover]

I think the 'her' that he was talking about is Hinata, because like what you said, the first part would look so wrong if the 'her' that he was talking about is Sakura. And yeah, I think the same too. Sakura might still thinking about Sasuke sometime, but her love isn't as big and as much as before anymore. And about that RTN thingy, Lol xD But honestly I feel sorry about HN & SS fans since they think that RTN must have alot of HN and SS scene, yet what happened was totally the opposites. And thank you very much too for everything you've said! I quote some of your sentences too on my debate xD

Ah, OK, I get it now. And you're very welcome! I'm honored.

Yeah, he also said something like "Also Naruto and Sakura can change any minute, Naruto could fall for Hinata instead of Sakura". He isn't wrong at all that there might be still a chance that Naruto could starts loving Hinata (even if only 1-2% -shrugs-), but saying that Naruto and Sakura can change any minute is just impossibru (I mean, after all that development and hard times they went through together, how is it possible?)

It's not completely impossible; I guess Kishi could do a 180 if he really wanted to, but at this point, when we're this deep into the story, it doesn't seem very likely. Plus, if he wanted him to fall for Hinata, I think he would've started some two-sided development by now. But then what would be the point of all the NS chemistry we've seen?

[Jirucchi]

Yep, Phantom's exactly right. Generally we try to stay away from repeating arguments from other forums just to reignite old fires. If the topic is worth discussing, then it's ok. But it's a no-no to jump on a bashing bandwagon, of characters or people from other threads. As Phantom said, just stick to arguing about their arguments, and everything should be fine!

(And yeah, a better place to start with debateable NS questions would be in the debate thread. But for right now we'll the threads unmerged.)

Oh and welcome aboard Jirucchi!

:O I'm sorry, because I saw some people were also post this kind of thread in this section, so I thought that this is the right section :l Should I move or delete this thread? But Idk how btw xD; Maybe you can explain it to me if I really have to do that. And as I said before, I'll never bash on other pairings/ chars no matter how frustrate I am Anyway thank you and nice to meet you!

@Phantom_999; @Gravenimage; @Kim :
He hasn't tried to give any proof telling us that Naruto is confused about his feelings, though, but he said that later he'll post his thoughts about Sakura and NS without facts just opinion (honestly I don't really understand about that part). Imo, about Naruto's feeling towards Hinata, it's true that he might considering Hinata's feelings, but I think the 'considering' here is more like "How should I answer Hinata's confession without hurting her feelings?". And like what you people said, it must be hard to think that Naruto will easily love Hinata after loving Sakura for a long time.

@redragon88; @NaruSaku4Life3g :
I'm totally agree with everything you said. (and I was so excited anyway when I knew MinaKushi are teasing Naruto about Sakura ). It's kinda biased if he said Sakura was there just to fill the 'hole' of the plot. But if you are talking about how Shounen manga mostly ends, some of them (HN fans) say that DragonBall didn't end with GokuxBulma while they both are the main hero and heroine. And they also said that afterall, MK was influenced by Akira Toriyama's DB, and who knows that the way AT put the ending also influences MK (that's what most of them said. I myself don't believe that MK will do the same way AT put the pairing for the ending, though. Because if he really does that, then he's not really creative :l I mean, MK himself said that he wants to make a manga that can influences the next generation mangaka too, and I don't think he'll repeat the same way that the previous mangaka did.)

Ah, OK, I get it now. And you're very welcome! I'm honored.

It's not completely impossible; I guess Kishi could do a 180 if he really wanted to, but at this point, when we're this deep into the story, it doesn't seem very likely. Plus, if he wanted him to fall for Hinata, I think he would've started some two-sided development by now. But then what would be the point of all the NS chemistry we've seen?

Yeah, that's why I said, that if MK will put NH in the end, what's all those developments and strong bonds Sakura and Naruto have for, if in the end it's just for a "best-friend relationships". And it'd seems as if MK is trolling us. But if he really will do that (wanted Naruto to fall for Hinata), it's too sudden and hard to believe (at least for me). I'll just hope that he isn't trying to troll us with all those facts, hints, and RTN stuffs xD