goldenarms

And now, I feel I must be the voice of dissention.

A few things I did notice from this exhaustive read are as follows:
 

-They are looked down by their fathers

Actually, that's not accurate. Sasuke certainly felt like his father looked down upon him, but it was more that he was living in Itachi's shadow. Privately, he told his wife how highly he thought of Sasuke.
 

Coincident? NOPE! There are TOO MANY similiarities to be called “just coincident!”

Rule #39 - There is no such thing as a coincidence.

Of course, you can also make an argument that it's because of their similarities that they could never be a couple. Similariies are great, but you also need differences to be your own person as well.
 

Sasuke said that he likes girl with long hair, while Sakura or Karin both don’t have that kind of hair most of the time. Making SasuSaku or SasuKarin canon would diminish canon traits of Sasuke. That means the “canon ending” itself is OOC!

...where did that ever come up in the manga? I'm pretty certain Sasuke never once talked about anything he did like. Of course, if Sasuke did have preferences about girls, it wouldn't have came out till the end, anyway. And, to be honest, this feels like a pretty shallow reason to disqualify anyone, especially, given the very serious nature of Sasuke, which, I feel, would be OOC if he actually made that a point of contention.

Oh, and one other thing: Hinata didn't have long hair when Sasuke was still in Konoha. And she likely won't keep it, either, after kids, so...
 

She Has The Best Genes Available

This entire section has me a bit concerned, just because it would suggest he's not actually marrying for love, but for genetic compatibility, which would basically make his wife little more than a breeder. In which case, wouldn't it be best to remain single and seduce as many girls as possible?

Also, another thing to consider -- if Sasuke were seeking to restore his clan, messing with any woman from the Hyuga bloodline would be a bad decision, since it appears their genes are stronger than the Uchiha -- every Hyuga as far as we know is born with the Byakugan (save Naruto's kids, but they're a special case), while the Sharingan isn't anywhere near as reliable, and, if the legend is to believed, the Sharingan is an offshoot of the Byakugan, which means there's a really good chance that the Byakugan gene would overwrite the Sharingan, and effectively end the lineage (yes, I know Masashi Kishimoto made a comment that a Hyuga/Uchiha child would have one eye of each in an interview, but I'm positing this from the character's POV -- they don't know unless there was a previous case). In face of those thoughts, it would be better for him to choose a girl that doesn't show any dominant traits or possesses a bloodlines power.

Extra note: Sakura is not clanless; the circle on her back is her clan symbol; her parents are most certainly ninja, based on Shikamaru's talk about why they, the Konoha 12, had to end Sasuke's life in-house instead of letting someone else do the deed. Just because no one talks about her family doesn't mean she's not from a clan; there's buttloads of Sarutobi, but no one talks about them.
 

She is Submissive and Needs Protection

...I'm honestly not even certain how to address this. Sasuke did take offense to whoever decided it was a good idea to beat up Sakura in the Forest of Death, but would he want a girl that is weak and passive? Not if he's looking for a strong family. Genetics are good, but character is even more important. And, in spite of how she behaves with Sasuke, Sakura has some spunk when she's being herself, so I'd imagine Sasuke would want a woman who can be a spitfire and handle herself. Which is most certainly not Hinata.
 

She Has Never Been Hurt By Him

She has never been in a position for him to hurt her, so this isn't an advantage.
 

SasuSaku is the definition of worst abusive couple ever in anime and manga history.

Worse than Saito/Louise? I really doubt it. And that's just the first one I thought of.
 

She Considered Him As Close Friend

She called him “Sasuke-kun” both in canon and filler (movie) so she thought of him as a close one. You can see it in Juubi war arcs and movie “Bonds”. Japanese people are so polite, they won’t add “kun” to a stranger’s name.  Besides, Uchiha and Hyuga were actually neighbours in Konoha so it is impossible to not meet or at least know each other.

Hinata and Sasuke were classmates, so I think -kun suffix is okay in that respect, though I haven't seen said movie so I have no idea of what context it takes place in.
 

Sasuke and Hinata are like yin and yang. Sasuke represents darkness and Hinata represents light.

No. They're not. If anything, they're both very Yin-state; Sasuke flounders in hatred and revenge, while Hinata retires in pessimism and self-loathing.  The only way those two are going is down, down, down. Naruto did not call Hinata the weirdo/dark child because of her sunny personality, you know.
 

Even Hinata’s appearance in chapter 700 seemed like Mikoto while Sakura looked like Kushina (remember that “find a girl like me” phase from Kushina?).

I remember the "find a girl like me" request from Kushina. I also remember how Naruto resisted replying one way or the other to that request, even in his own mind, whereas he had replied to everything else, no matter how mundane it was. Personally, I believe Naruto was dodging the question because he didn't think he'd ever find a girl to marry, since he realized that he would never occupy that part of Sakura's heart.
 

3. In “Road to Ninja”, Charasuke (Sasuke) was interested in Hinata also had his heart beat faster. Since Hinata in RTN still loved Menma (Naruto), maybe the real Sasuke’s feelings was also similiar with his counterpart? (Sasuke and Hinata have so many similiarities in real world, right?)

Having not seen the movie, but fragments and the manga prequel, I'm fairly certain that Playboy Sasuke was just a figment of Naruto's imagination reshaping his peers and has no actual connection to the real Sasuke in any way, shape, or form. Besides, that kind of guy would hit on anyone that was hot, so...
 

From those observations, according to common and canon senses, SasuHina should be canon.

I'll be frank -- a lot of these observations are either weak or flawed, and show little to no connection for a relationship to grow upon. I'm not picking on your love for SasuHina; I got a mad-on for NaruIno and NaruTayu, and have written about lesser shippings like GaaraKin, but at the same time, I'm okay with them not being "canon." It's just that certain pairings have more potential in drama/comedy or have a certain naturalness about them that cannot be explained (ShinoHana, for example), and it fun to experiment with how things could have been if there was just this one minor tweak.

So enjoy your shipping. My request is that we be more honest with the characters and their settings. The quickest way to ruin any shipping is to over-romanticize the characters and making them OOC. Well, that and writing stories that destroy suspension of disbelief, like this one fanfic synopsis of an ANBU Naruto... at the age of two! Or writing a story that makes the scenario you want to achieve completely impossible and/or insane.
 

So, years later, apparently Hinata’s marriage is failing and that is the time where Sasuke comes in. She realizes about Sasuke’s feelings as the time goes by and slowly fall for him. They divorce/separate with current partners and get married.

...like this. This would be a lot better if you weren't wishing for someone's marriage to end so your prefered ship can hook up. It's heinous because breakups suck. Broken marriages suck about a thousand times worse, and quadruple that pain and suffering for every child caught in between. We're talking extreme emotional baggage for months, at the least and anyone who preys upon such a situation has no heart. I'm talking sociopaths type behavior here. That's not where you want your ship to be, believe that.
 

I know there will be someone who won’t be happy with this post or this pairing, but at least SasuHina is healthy relationships, unlike SasuSaku with its brutal development. Sasuke never laid his finger towards Hinata.

Which doesn't mean that he wouldn't hurt or abuse her. Pre-Naruto, Hinata was brutally torn apart every day, just by her father's responses, and it doesn't help that Sasuke embodies every last one of Hiashi's traits -- cold, distant, harsh, fixated on the clan, sees her as useless (and he will, just as surely as he saw Sakura, Naruto, and even Kakashi as "useless"). And that's something that's getting overlooked. For all the points for SasuHina, there are also a number of bad points that would make such a relationship extremely trying, primarily because of one thing that absolutely cannot be present if you were to go for it on a character perspective -- Naruto. Some of the talking points for SasuHina are only because of Naruto's influence, which cannot be permitted since that would automatically gravitate Hinata towards him instead. Also, when one of your shipping mates leaves the village for a number of years at the most crucial time, those seeds have got to have been planted already; it's a very small window in which to get the ball rolling or it'll never manage, again, because of the personalities of the characters involved. Without any establishment, Hinata would never even dream of chasing after Sasuke, and he would likewise chalk her up to being successfully severed and won't give her another thought.

It's a very volatile mix, to be certain. Not impossible from a fanfiction standpoint, but you really have to know how to handle the situations, and not simply handwave things to make square pegs fit round holes.

 

Like I've been through SNS posts, and if you even attempt to put NS on a pedestal to SNS, you're homophobic, support manipulative abuse, and even to as far as supporting genocide (like my bad Sasuke isn't that likable of a character). You don't know how many NS blogs I left because they decided to become an SNS supporter. I've even seen pro NH/SS join SNS. 

Genocide? lolwut Support manipulative abuse? I've "read" a SNS fic that had Sasuke effectively raping Naruto in every room of the Academy. One of the comments of this fic was, literally: "Yeah! That's the Sasuke we know and love!" and that's just one of many supporting the story, general consensus being "That ain't rape; that's just surprise buttsecks you didn't know you wanted."

 I had so wanted to take that story and CTRL+H out Naruto's name, replaced it with, say, Hinata, post the link to the original story, and see how well they carried that tune. But anyway...

If you're feeling brave, ask a SNS shipper why don't they just genderbend one of the characters. Just make certain it's not a board you really like visiting, though, when you do this.

Earlier tonight, a friend of mine linked me to a tumblr post that turns out to be a very interesting read. 

 

http://milliekou.tum...archer-nenilein

 

 

What are your thoughts?

Rosie, the person behind fandomsandfeminism, is such a tool and a product of the Regressive Left, it's horrifying. Her profile is littered with popular SJW material like "cis" and personal gender profiles, and the fact that she has a piece of paper saying that she's qualified to teach people things terrifies me to no end. I wouldn't trust her to raise a plant, let alone another human being that might end up just as dumb as her.

What kills me is that in her profile, she states that minority representation is important, and yet, she blatantly ignores the Japanese and how their culture works because she has this sparkly agenda disguised as a presentation about how Japan needs feminism and the models of anime/manga they should be following. Which, our local Japanese person had stated before deleting her profile, were explicitly the antithesis of her feminist rant and baldly showed just how idiotic and culturally blind she is. I swear, her denseness and insensitivity is so great, her head probably has its own gravitational field by now.

Basically. With characters that aren't explicitly spelled out, you do have to make some inferences about certain things, based on what is shown. Of course, this does lead to everyone having their own interpretations of what is "the truth" within the story.

It's not that she was completely desperate for him, it was just a spur of the moment thing, she was afraid for Naruto but as well of never get to reveal her feelings

'Bout the rest of your post , well turns out I completely agree with you, Sakura had to have something besides her romance plot line that would estabilish her as MC
I mean even if she began as an ordinary fangirl with the right development she could turn out to be someone extraordinary at the end

It's quite a shame that it looks like you're leaving, it's always nice to discuss different opinions as long as everything remains civil : D
And don't worry I doubt our discussion bugged someone, This forum has seen worse, believe me

To be honest, I believe Hinata's selfishness stems from the fact that she wanted to protect Naruto from Pain (see what Masashi did there?), which meant turning her back on the warnings from her own protection detail to stay out of the fight. Considering she even has protection detail is indicative of her return to good standing within the Hyuga (where before Hiashi bluntly said Hinata was "superflurous" while she was just outside the room), and as such, the clan cares more about her continued survival above all for whatever reason. In that regard, she was being "selfish" for letting her desire to protect Naruto overrule even her father's concerns.

As for her confession, I don't think it was meant to be a romantic one. Sure, she said "I love you" but she only spoke of it because of Naruto's comments: "What are you talking about?! What are you doing out here?! It's dangerous!!" So, after a beat panel, she gives him the answer. To me, just having a beat panel erases the idea that her whole plan was to go out and confess; she clearly had to think on it for a few seconds before (or even if) she said anything. It was just her out there with a stupid, selfish desire to protect Naruto that was  going to get her killed instead of staying safe and remain out of the conflict like everyone else would have wanted her. If her confession was the only reason for her to be out there, I don't think she would have ever set foot towards helping anyone; it just goes against the nature of a self-centered person.

And, if I was leaving the board, I wouldn't have came back the first time. To be frank, though, I probably shouldn't be on the net very much in the first place and instead dedicate my time to my own creations so that people can sit around on forums and argue over who's going to end up with my MC. But... well, life is simple, but we tend to complicate it a lot.

 

 

You gave a legal definition of the US legal system...so does Naruto live in the US? 

I gave ou the dictionary the definition, a universal definition. Please, you really tried to make a point with that?

 

I will answer the rest later, have to sleep

...wut? Did you just seriously say that? Did you just seriously used a dictionary term that's taken from the US dictionary, coined by a US public in the 1991, to try and shut down that argument?

Are you so hard-up to be right? To somehow convince me that "Of course, Hinata is a stalker; are you blind?" that you'll grab for any shred of discord that goes against your system of belief?

I think you seriously need to re-examine this argument and decide if it's really about the facts or is your bias against Hinata getting the better of you. As of now, I do not feel the need to try and explain this any further; if you want to disavow the complexities of stalking, even when I've pointed such things out, that's on you.

 

Not really, after she rejects him he never actually forces himself into her. Insisting on them being an item is not a harassment situation, it was brough upon in one situation I can remeber and it wasn't even him who brought  it uo, it was Konohamaru anf then he got too embarassed to deny

 

Konohamaru asked Naruto if Sakura was his girlfriend. Naruto instantly chuckled and said, "Heh, you brats are pretty sharp." And Sakura megaton punched Naruto before she knew how to do it properly.

Naruto was not "too embarrassed." He was quite proud that someone else thought they were an item.

Really you don't even sound as a NS fan. calling Naruto's baheacior as harassment is the same thing as saying Sakura's attitude towards him later on was "abusive", as in makes completely no sense

 

Absurd, isn't it? Of course, seeing how you're so willing to live by the definition of stalking, I figure you're also willing to live by the definition of harass.

 

harass

verb ha·rass \hə-ˈras; ˈher-əs, ˈha-rəs\

: to annoy or bother (someone) in a constant or repeated way

And no matter how you spin it, Naruto has annoyed and bothered Sakura repeatedly with his "Hey, you wanna go on a date?" knowing full and well that she likes someone else. Even if said guy shoots her down when she does it to him. :)

Of course if we take that with the retcons of the last, those actions make Naruto a scumbag because he considered Sakura a prize ( makes 0 sense LOL) , but not a harasser

Huh, I didn't realize Naruto has such an intimate, dedicated romantic relationship that he only made with Sakura and then threw it all away because he was forever gaming her. "Oh, Sakura. If only there was someone out there who loved you."

Oh, wait, they never had that. Therefore, calling Naruto a scumbag because he didn't really love Sakura or something seems pretty farfetched to me when they weren't in some hot and heavy relationship, or on the verge of getting married or something. Put down the Haterade and drink some water to cleanse your system.

No, but If you kept doing that repeatedly and with the specific intention of seeing the same person train again and again , then yes you're a stalker, a relatively harmless one but a stalker nonetheless

Possibly, but without proof of multiple, intentional visitations, it's just dry conjecture.

Hinata was not relevant so that's why her life and actions isn't really showed in detail beyond her backstory and the fact she spent time observing Naruto during part 1. There is nothing wrong on relying on hints, they remain to be true to the story even if Kishimoto himself tries to recon then like he did to NS, I mean, NS development is still there for everybody to see, the fact that it was ultimately retconed makes no sense upon further analysis, it's basically the same thing on the hints to the fact that Hinata had stalker like actions while she was observing Naruto training

 

Hints aren't facts, though; they're interpretations we make based on what we see and hear. And because of that, sometimes we read too deeply into something that isn't necessarily a hint, seeking out a personal meaning to what was just a lazy offhand comment. The only time hints have to be good is in a murder-mystery story because we're seeking to figure out who is the criminal, and certain clues will inevitably give the suspect away. Of course, that also means being on the lookout for red herrings and misdirections.

So, yeah, sometimes, you need something a bit more concrete to work with because ultimately, everything is smoke and mirrors without proof of existence.

What is this hospital scene you speak of? This never happened...it's the one from the fillers?

It was brought up at the end of Part 1. Neji asks why isn't Hinata going to see Naruto off, since it was his last day in the village before his training trip with Jiraiya. Kiba and Shino show up to tell Neji that Hinata did try to visit Naruto in the hospital, only to faint seeing him so bandaged up, and as a result, could not bring herself to face him directly due to shame. It's also the only time we see Hinata hiding behind something to watch Naruto -- but, as it was explained, it was because she was still mortified for her actions at the hospital.

 

It's the same with Hinata, she had no ill intention towards Naruto ( even if she knew his pain and did nothing for him ), she just kept watching him because it gave her strenght, but tha's stalking nonetheless

Again, conjecture. Since you yourself pointed out that Hinata was not relevant, we don't know anything about her aside from her family problems. So we can't say with absolute conviction that Hinata was running off at every single opportunity to spy on Naruto; you can believe that, if you want to, but be aware that there is no proof of such stalker behavior. What we do know is, at worst, she would secretly sneak glimpses of Naruto in the classroom as Sakura stated, and one flashback panel that shows Hinata looking in on Naruto as he was doing push-ups. Because I was wondering how many flashback panels there were, I reread Chapter 437, and I discovered this.

There are only two panels: one of Hinata in the forest crying/being depressed, and the next has her looking in on Naruto in the forest as he's training. I don't know how they animated this scene, but without some other context in play, I read it as one scene: Hinata being this close to giving up altogether, and, on her way home, she happens upon Naruto, and out of curiosity (if she was spying on him, I would think she would be trying much harder to not be seen instead of leaning out so much) she keeps quiet and watches what he's doing, trying to figure out why is he working so hard, even when he's a known failure. There are no scenes or indications this was an every day thing for Hinata, and the panels shown suggest that, yes, this was entirely coincidental. Therefore, based on that, it's impossible for Hinata know anything about Naruto's life, how lonely he was and whatnot, because she didn't turn him into a hobby. She gained strength from his never give up attitude, but that didn't make him her sole reason for living.

Now I never said she was trying to score "brownie point", even because she went there knowing she would proibably die, so yeah it was a YOLO moment, she was afraid of the outcome of the fight being in Pein's favor and never getting the chance to ever confess, so she did it, it's not demeaning or disrespect in any manner. It's a fact

So, what page does Hinata, or anyone related to the situation, says or thinks, "Oh, man, this is bad. If I don't confess my true feelings to Naruto now, I'll never get to say them!"? Because I'm very interested in reading your copy of the manga and see how it's so damn different from my copy of the manga.

Until those pages come up, I'm just going to state that, again, huge disservice to Hinata's character. Part of the reason why I listed Hinata's confession as a holy kitten moment is because the shy girl normally doesn't break from her role. Even if the hero is like missing all his limbs, the shy girl will remain the shy girl, while the heroine comes out swinging for the fences to cement her feelings for the main hero, and Naruto is one of the very few series I can think of that openly defied this.

Well that makes sense, she copied Naruto's nindo after all. However this doesn't change that it was a selfish and a YOLO moment, her main reason to go there was confessing because she was afraid of never being able to do so because of the supposed outcome. 

You can also spin this to the fact that she never really trusted Naruto's own abilities, specially his new ones, this becoms evident during the Sasuke hunt arc during the part 2, so she was understandably afraid of what would and could happen .

Somehow, I don't understand your line of thinking.  Trust in Naruto's abilities and let him be taken away and killed, and acting against that trust means she has no faith in Naruto's abilities? What happened to things like, being concerned, standing up for your friends, and all that other stuff we do that marks us as human beings?

In case you hadn't realized it at the time, Naruto had no more moves left to play. That was made abundantly clear the first moment Pain put Naruto down with the chakra stake through his hands. His sticking more chakra stakes into various points of his body to render him totally immobile was him just being a prick to show his total dominance over Naruto. That's about as game over as you can get. If you're still chanting "have faith in him!" you're as dumb as Goku when he was letting his own son suffer against Cell. At some point, you have to use your brain and determine the situation instead of blindly relying on faith alone to pull you through.

And speaking of which, what is it with this "Hinata only jumped out because she wanted to confess" stuff? Sure, she said she was being selfish, but damn, I think you're taking it way too far. Is there something wrong with her standing up for Naruto in his darkest hour? Is it somehow possible for Hinata to step up to a guy she realistically can't be expected to beat for reasons like, oh, I dunno, to actually save Naruto's life if at all possible? Sure, if Hinata thinks protecting Naruto with her life is selfish, well, damn I guess Naruto will have to live with her selfishness. If Sakura were to have done it, would you be saying, "Oh, she only stepped up to Pain because she just wanted to confess to Naruto"? Because somehow, I highly doubt we would be having this conversation.

 

I think it's pretty obvious she didn't really had the time to keep up her old stalking schedule after they graduated to genin. However not only Sakura, but flashbacks and Hinata herself have hints that point to the fact that Hinata stalked Naruto during their time at the academy, and as I said even if retconed such hints can't be dismissed or changed,
 

Again, I think you're a little too invested over this concept of Hinata "stalking" Naruto. Re-reading the relevant parts, at best, you can only presume the possibility of Hinata spying on Naruto. From what's shown, though, there's nothing to give that theory any weight.

Not going to lie. Sounds like whining to me for much of it. "I WANT MORE SUIGETSU, and it totally sucked you skip his fights! And you skip Kakashi's rampaging for Darui and his fight! BOOOOORING! He's a loser that don't have any importance, and I want more Suigetsu! You suck, making Naruto into a Shojo! A pox on your house for shipping NaruHina, and I hope you get raped by a pack of rabid Hyugas! Love Suigetsu"

Seriously, I had to make myself read it twice, as the first time, I started skimming after your "Have you forgot what it's like to be a Shounen reader?" line. If you were Masashi Kishimoto, knowing full and well you get rude letters from disgruntled fans, would you bother reading it in full?

Try something like this:

"Hey, I'm a huge Suigetsu fan. I love _____. It was disappointing to not see him fight _____. Will we ever see Suigetsu fighting ____, even if in flashback only? I feel it would be very amazing to see in action.

 

Some things have bothering me, though. The manga seemed to have changed drastically over time. Certain themes, like younger generation surpassing the older one, seem to not hold much meaning, given the monsters that the older generation were. What it your intention to make the previous Kages so overpowering as to bring about despair in the people fighting them unless they, too, were overpowering?

 

I also wonder at the choice for The Last being a romantic movie for Naruto. Is romance that important to Naruto's character, even moreso than learning about his family roots?, or was he satisfied after meeting his mother and father? While on the subject, Sakura does not seem to hold a romantic place in Naruto's heart because ______. It felt like the reason was out of place in contrast to the manga, where Naruto would constantly ask Sakura out on dates and hardly spent any time with Hinata. Were there secret hints placed in the series to understate Naruto's feelings in this manner? And more to the point, how does Naruto not understand Hinata's feelings for the past two years, given the number of times she risked her own life for him?

 

In any case, I hope you have lots of success with your future works, and thank you for both reading this letter and writing this series.

 

Sincerely, _________."

 

I mean, chances of getting read and answered are pretty slim as it is; why reduce your chances to near zero with a letter that's more about everything Masashi did wrong in your opinion, than being pleasant and direct in things that do bother you? No explaining why you're upset, just ask the question, and be pleasant the whole letter through. Well wishes on future successes, and the like.

If you can't bring yourself to be a decent human being to someone you don't even know, you might be better off not writing anything until you can.

 

I don't think the kidnapping incident had anything to do with her shy personality (it was never addressed as such) , and Hanabi was brought up in the same manner and behaved differently. I take it you agree with my point that even if Sakura had Hinata's backdstory her personality wouldn't turn out exactly like Hinata's personality was

Sakura's personality wouldn't turn out exactly like Hinata's because Sakura is not Hinata. However, I can say with some certainty that they would be similar, particularly if she was bereft of Ino's presence. It's less likely if Ino's her friend, but that wouldn't completely obliterate the shy, retiring, pessimistic personality; it would simply be expressed in a different manner -- for example, she's high-strung and manic most of the time, but when the pressure's on, she falls apart like a house of cards in March winds.

No matter how you slice it, though, a Sakura with a Hinata background would most assuredly not turn out the way Sakura has. You can take that as a good thing, or a bad thing.

 

Ans this is Kishi main mistake. Sakura's a main character she should've been treated as such.

True. Of course, when developing her, Sakura's entire point was about "pursuing a selfish love" which he thought was "pretty realistic."* So, in short, she was meant to be pretty shallow and Sasuke-centric from the get-go, and the development Masashi gave her reflected that.

* Taken from his notes in the collections, so Kishi-haters can go, "That could be true."

Now I disagree with your point about Hinata. We didn't had that many insights on her. Just a little bit in the chuunin exam and then we got she saying she would get stronger too by the end of part 1 (like Sakura)

Come part 2 and Hinata is basically a flanderized aspect of what she was in part 1, not only she was more Naruto-driven than ever but she becomes essentially a pairing fodder. It was different than a character like Juvia from FT, Juvia is Gray- driven but that's treated as comedy, we had enough focus on Juvia to show that she cares for all her guildmates too, however with Hinata we have her being treated as a complete pairing fodder due to lack of focus on her character outside of "Naruto-kun" and the fandom loving her for it somehow

You can also argue Sakura herself was nothing more than pairing fodder. Team 7's VAs themselves even stated that Masashi told them upon their first meeting that SasuSaku was a lock. Yes, that includes Naruto's VA.

That said, I find it strange people say Hinata was Naruto-driven, as if she only wanted to be stronger because she was seeking his approval. Seriously, Hinata flat-out didn't like herself -- it was only because of Naruto being, well, Naruto, that she was able to take her first steps into becoming someone she could like. If her sole existence was only to gain Naruto's approval, she wouldn't have hid from him in Part 2; in fact, dare I say it, she might have taken cues from Sakura's pursuit of Sasuke, and then we'd have a stalker on our hands.*

Sure, Hinata's development is largely influenced by Naruto, but that doesn't mean that she did things because all she cared about was Naruto approving of her. She wanted to make her own path, be a person that she could face in the mirror and say, at the very least, "I don't dislike you." It just so happens that the guy that influenced her so strongly, and the guy that she likes are the same person.

* Anyone that says Hinata is a stalker or that she actively stalks Naruto knows nothing about stalkers and stalking.

 

Yep, it's a good backstory, too bad that it didn't really worked in Hinata's case thanks to the author, it basically didn't matter after part 1 and then later it was retconned

 

Nevertheless I don't think that being brought up in such circunstamces would cause someone to be shy and timid, each person is a different person, it's the same with characters. Look at Hanabi in early part 1, she was brought up in the same environment of Hinata and she was still different from her sister

That's because Hanabi is different from Hinata -- younger, and having a personality that is different from the older sister, as well as not having been the target of a kidnapping plot that resulted in the sacrificial death of her uncle.

 

Possibly, but this isn't really of any concern. Kishi could give Orochimaru, Kisame or Hidan that backstory for all I care. It isn't about how she could have turned out, but what Kishi could've done with her character. Here, I'm claiming that if Sakura were to have that backstory, the people who hated her character since the beginning might not have ended up hating her since her backstory would be a lot more sympathetic. This in turn may have prevented her from plummeting on the popularity polls.

I understand that point, but at the same time, I'm saying that the inclusion of such a backstory would fundamentally change Sakrua's character into something that is more sympathetic. Making her a kitten, and then handwaving it by saying, "Oh, she has really strict parents" does nothing to garner sympathy if her character does not reflect this. It's like all those fanfics that make Naruto uberly smart and powerful in the beginning, but STILL ends up on the same team as Sasuke and Sakura because reasons.

It might be weird to say change the ending pairing because that's only a small part of the bigger picture, but I too hate that Sakura's development was simplified to - when she's with Naruto=Awesome, strong, selfless, confident, opinionated etc..

and with Sasuke= Everything but. In many ways the opposite.

 

SS always put Sakura in a bad light, and NS put her in a good light. I think it's a shame, even tho it's one of the main reasons I prefer ns over ss. An example is how she went delivering a war speech to the whole shinobi army, and telling Naruto to treat her like the strong woman she is, to pleading Sasuke to give her a place in his heart, and not being able to speak properly with him after the war. Her development should've been done chronologically, not back and forth based on what boy she interacts with.

To be fair, it's sort of how people work in real life. Some folks build you up, while others, you leave yourself wide open to. And, sure, on a head level, Naruto would be a better person for Sakura to be involved with romantically, but on the heart level, she's totally devoted to Sasuke. It's why she couldn't bring herself to stab him in the back, no matter how much she knew he needed to be put down in order to be saved -- her heart would not permit it.

 

You know, fans got really biased against her in the beginning not bc she didn't fought at all but because it took Sakura quite some time to recognize her weakness. KIshi took too much time to introduce her resolve and then after her fight in the forest of death and against Ino he just forgot it

 

For example just look at what he did with Naruto, in his first "fight " against the demon brothers he was pathetic and needed to be saved by Sasuke, in his "fight "against Zabuza he developed, shoowed resolve and saved Kakashi.

If anything, this would be the major issue with Sakura. She's clearly the weakest out of her her team, but she does nothing to actually address this weakness until the end of Part One. Instead, she's more about having a date with Sasuke, even after he scolded her quite harshly in Chapter 3.

In short, she doesn't learn from her mistakes until it's too late, and it's hard to like someone that's unwilling to really help themselves. For all the complaints about Hinata, she was, at least, willing to improve herself or die trying (like, literally).

What are some things Kishi could've done to keep Sakura popular and not allow her to lose her status to Hinata (besides getting rid of Hinata of course)?

What are some of the things Masashi could have done to make Sakura popular and be viable as a main character? Understand why Sakura isn't popular in the first place and work on the things that he could change, and not worry over the things he can't.

How much of that he could influence, I don't know, but Sakura's popularity as a main character took near unrecoverable hits with less than 107 chapters under the series belt. 14th is NOT popular, particularly if you're supposed to be one of the MAIN CHARACTERS. And worse, this is AFTER we have revealed stuff about Sakura, demonstrated her kind and caring nature, her ingenuity at work, and her similarities to Naruto. All that stuff out about Sakura, and the readers prefered, in order, a sadistic super pervert (Jiraiya, 10th - 503 votes), a super-androgynous character that died like 80 chapters ago (Haku, 11th - 434 votes), a picture of an unnamed Hokage (The Fourth Hokage/Minato, 12th - 402 votes), and the clear-cut mustache-twirling heel for Naruto to righteously thwart (Neji, 13th - 396 votes) over one of our MAIN characters (Sakura, 14th - 359 votes).

At this point, who gives a flying fig about Hinata's popularity? The trouble spot is Sakura and her consistent low showings in the character polls, given her status as a main character. First seven polls, she comes in 5th, 14th, 9th, 10th, 8th, 12th, and 12th (tying with SAI, whom I understand to be pretty unpopular character in Japan -- NOT good). Even more damning -- after the second character poll, the less there is of Sakura in the manga, the higher her positioning is. Whenever she becomes more relevant, and gets more screentime, though...

As one saying goes, "Once is a coincidence; twice is a pattern."

If I was penning Naruto, and Sakura was ever meant to be his love interest, I sure as hell would be reconsidering that plan, let me tell you, because those polls, with the first six appearing to have been taken yearly, tells me that the readers don't like Sakura very much. Not as a main character, at any rate.

So, how does one change all that? Personally, I don't think you could, given the reader response. Not without starting over. Sakura got power-ups galore -- readers don't seem to care. Sakura's "confession" pissed off pretty much everyone, so romance redirection isn't likely going to win them over, either. And while you can drag a horse to water, you can't make him drink, so shoving her into the faces of a readership that doesn't seem to care about her is likely going to make them even more resistant, and Lord knows, no one wants to drive off their reading base.

So, my answer is... rewrite her entirely. The Sakura developed is not going to magically become well-loved if you gave her cool powers, or if she gives birth to all one thousand of Naruto's babies, or if the series was retitled SAKURA. Her character is faulty, and while some would say it's because of her Sasuke-centric feelings (which, given how she and Sasuke came about, is fairly justified), I would say it's because she doesn't have a future she identifies with that also ties into being a main character like everyone else. Naruto dreams of becoming Hokage so people will give him proper recognition; Sasuke dreams of killing his brother and restoring his family line; Sakura dreams of Sasuke and... that's about it. A main character absolutely needs a driving goal, force, or objective that propels him or her forward, a task that the character must absolutely do and succeed at or die trying, and that's something Sakura is wholly without.

By the time she does get one, it's already too late to utilize it properly -- we just wasted 270+ chapters of development, and now, it's going to be a tougher sell getting people to like the NEW and IMPROVED Sakura with so much baggage attached to her current character.

So, instead, she would need to start with some kind of driving goal that makes her a main character -- for example, let's say Sakura wants to be a ninja rock star. =BAM= Now the world is going to open up for our intrepid wannabe future ninja rock star. The obstacles she'll face, the tasks she'll have to overcome, the roles she'll assume, the people that'll cheer her on as well as those she'll have to battle in order to bring about her own dream, presuming that she CAN bring about those dreams. Everything that will culminate into answering the one question that we MUST know -- does she succeed, or does she fail? How does it go for our main charactetr and her dream?

In the end, I can but theorize why the Japanese readers aren't down with Sakura. In my opinion, though, Sakura doesn't have something to make her interesting, and that something is a dream to follow, a passion and dedication to something that not easy to obtain. Beccause of that lack of a dream, it's going to much harder for readers to sympathize with her than say Hinata, a introvert, timid girl who might as well be invisble to the guy she likes but dreams of someday being strong and courageous enough (and worthy in some cases) to walk beside that guy. Or Shikamaru, a slacker who dreams of having a peaceful, boring life, a dream which eventually gets dashed in favor of a dream where he serves as protector of Konoha's future, the children of both his sensei and his own.

Resolution : naruto confess & sakura reject him, both of them realize that they are better to be friend. Good for naruto & sakura. You don't need to make naruto cry like a b*tch because sakura rejection. What happen in the last is erasing naruto feeling. It inderectly tell the audience that boy feeling is not important and to make Hinata as naruto first love thus avoiding that Hinata is a silver medal argument.

Kill : naruto said he doesn't love her anymore in sakura confession or when he talk about his massage or when minato ask sakura if she's his girlfriend.

I want a proper closure, it will show that kishi give a kitten about his own manga since he promise us a proper conclusion.

This is something I don't get. I hear some people demanding "closure" to Naruto and Sakura, wanting Naruto to finally confess his feelings and whatnot, and I feel we've already gotten all that much, much earlier -- when Sakura "confessed" to Naruto and the subsequent development with Sasuke-Danzo and the re-meeting of Team 7. I felt that summed up everything we need to know about the future of Naruto and Sakura's relationship -- they'll be friends and teammates forever, but love is pretty much a dead topic as long as there is still hope for Sasuke.

Feel free to get your anti-Sasuke pitchforks and firebrands.

l was joking. Tbh I didn't even get that mad at that part because the damage was already done, l think the absolute worst part is still Naruto not understanding Hinata's confession. This one l think l'll never get over.

I feel people don't quite understand how can such an empathic man like Naruto completely miss on Hinata's confession.

In my experience, it's simple -- he simply did not believe her to feel true romantic love towards him.

That's easy to understand when you consider Naruto grew up without love for nearly all of his life. The fact that he didn't turn out sociopathic like Gaara is a miracle in and of itself, but at the same time, Naruto spends a lot of his time trying to figure out relationships and feelings using others as stand-ins for the things he doesn't have himself -- Iruka as his father, Jiraiya as a grandfather, Sasuke as his brother, etc. When it comes to romatic relationships, Naruto doesn't have many basis to compare to, and the only one that might have helped him is Sakura towards Sasuke, which pretty much the worst one he could use to decipher Hinata due to the fact that Hinata is pretty much the exact opposite of her. And, since Hinata apparently never followed up on her confession after Naruto defeated Pain (understandable, since Sakura has long since been the girl Naruto has been vocal about since 12), it's little wonder how Naruto could come to the decision that Hinata's feelings towards him might not have been in the romantic sense but something along the lines of "liking ramen."

Pretty classic case of "Extroverts failing to understand how introverts think and feel."

 

OP hasn't appeared again to discuss what he wanted to discuss so Idk

I'm here. Had to sleep, work, stuff like that.

And, man, there's a good amount of stuff here. I'm going to read through everything first before I post some of the things I want to talk about. I definitely got a few questions in mind, and I'm shaping those out on a separate txt file. Forum posting isn't like TFF, so I have to approach this differently.

Goldenarms, here. I write fanfics, create art pieces, and sometimes even do "storytelling" using images. Outside of that, I'm not entirely certain what else to add here... even less so, given certain events in the last six months. As they say, I'm not here to troll, so I suppose whatever the people want to know, they can ask me about.