75 replies to this topic

[Tiller]

Do you guys think that Sasuke should have died at the end as a punishment for his crimes, or do you think he should have survived in order to repent?

Sasuke should have been put down like Old Yeller. Honestly that's how the entire tale should have ended, and how it was heading once until the whole "Land of Iron" bs.

 

But Sasuke is an Uchiha he can't be "Evil" he's to "pure". This story should have been about Naruto learning what it actually meant to become a Hokage like figure, a man who puts the needs and desires of his village even above his own personal feelings. His father sacrificed himself, his wife, and put a monster inside his child in order to bring peace to the village. Naruto fainted and acted like he had a heart attack over the very notion of having to kill Sasuke if it came to that.

 

Which it should have. Sasuke has no reason to want to return to the village like nothing has happened. He showed no love of anyone there after he left, and he attempted to kill and mentally tortured the woman he supposedly "loved", well also trying to kill the man who he supposedly considered to be just like his brother Itachi (that stupid scene alone makes you realize how stupid this story became in the end). But since Sasuke couldn't punch Naruto hard enough to kill him he had to "submit", and we then learn that his "true"    character was never really shown. Surprise he always loved Sakura!   Surprise he thought Naruto was better then him, and Naruto reminded him of Itachi!   Surprise he never really hated the village!   The Uchiha just love people to much!

 

For this story to have been done right, Sasuke should have fallen completely to his selfish want for revenge, to the point where that unhealthy obsession consumed his soul. He was willing to enslave and kill millions who had nothing to do with his families downfall. Naruto should have had to face the reality that the real world and real leadership requires people to stand up for what they know in the heart is true, and the conflict should have come from these two men and their conflicting views of life and humanity.

 

Instead we got two guys who really love each other and just can't bring themselves to kill the other one off... oh and yeah "peace" was obtained by another bad guy who got the nations of the known world to align against him... cause we all know world history has shown that once nations become allies together they never turn against each other.

 

Oh but don't worry in the end Sakura and Hinata got the kitten they were always suppose to according to Kishimoto aka "Japan's Shakespeare". So yeah great story Kisimoto!!!

[Tiller]

 

 

Not his dead family? Not Itachi?

 

Anyway, that's really besides the point. The point death is not a punishment in this series. 

Which is incredibly stupid with a series about war, genocide, children soldiers, and even a plan that takes away man's free will.

 

Who was the real bad guy in the series according to Kishimoto? Zetsu for wanting to bring his "mom" back to life? If so then Kishimoto's image of "evil" is the over protectiveness of a mother... since Zetsu was created by Kaguya in order to bring her back so she could bring the world back to peace under her will... an idea also attempted by Madara and Sasuke.. but those two are "pure" so they are awesome. Yeah.... but that motherhood thing wanting to protect their children that stupid! Sasuke and Madara wanting to become fascist dictators controlling all of mankind;s thoughts and free will though... oh well that is just because they are "pure" in their goals they aren't "evil", they don't understand "good and evil" that's how "pure" they are.

 

Uhg the more I think about this damn story the angrier I get lol. This man literally took all these complicated issues and came up with the stupidest answers possible. It's like watching someone write out hundreds of chapter about how they are going to answer Hume's is-ought problem and in the end they come up with "6".

[BlackBird19]

Since the portrayal of Sasuke throughout most of the manga was that of a psychopath, then I say yes he should've died a repentant death of some sort. That would've been much more believable than the 180 we were spoon fed. If he had died repenting then Naruto still might have had some closure knowing Sasuke died having been saved from his own darkness before he left the world. Hell at the end Kishi actually made sure to leave doubt within Sasuke whether he was capable of not turning on Naruto and the others again. Damn Sanpei Shirato for writing that manga that inspired Sasuke's character that ruined this manga.

[Hiraishin]

Probably not, but I would have liked him to.

[SasuIno.NaruSaku]

No he should of never married Sakura . He despised her the majority of the series until chap 699-700 . 

[Aizen-Sama]

He should not have gotten a happy ending. That's all I have to say. Whether that's death, jail, or eternal loneliness, the consequences of his hatred-driven actions should've been clear. Any ending would've been better than the free pass & open arms he got at the end.

[dejavu]

^agree on the two.

For me its a no. The meaning of death in this story became ridiculous. But i did in fact thought of Sasuke dying and saying some kind of speech about how he'll pass all his kitten on Naruto etc.

In the end I think its better that he was not killed. BUT he shouldn't have gotten the 'ending' he had now. The best thing he could get is his teammates unreasonable love for him and thats it! End the Uchiha line with himself.

[Tiller]

^agree on the two.

For me its a no. The meaning of death in this story became ridiculous. But i did in fact thought of Sasuke dying and saying some kind of speech about how he'll pass all his kitten on Naruto etc.

In the end I think its better that he was not killed. BUT he shouldn't have gotten the 'ending' he had now. The best thing he could get is his teammates unreasonable love for him and thats it! End the Uchiha line with himself.

You are right about the meaning of Death in the end with this story.

 

Honestly with Jiraya I thought we were seeing a big moment, the realization that death at times can be a peaceful thing. A return to the world from which you came.

 

Which I thought was showing further the idea that Sasuke would be put down like old yeller so he could finally find true peace with all his anger, hatred, and need of revenge gone.

 

Then of course instead of that death just tended to mean nothing... with only Neji dying because he betrayed to the true god of the manga faith, and instead began to follow Naruto's "free will" ideals. He had to die for that, well Naruto became the return of the king. Uhg this story.

[Radra]

No... The ending would be even more silly than it already is if Sasuke died.

 

Saving Sasuke was tied to Naruto's ultimate goal of becoming Hokage. That is the ultimate reason why there was no way Sasuke would die. You also had Naruto using talk no jutsu to change characters like Gaara, Pain and Obito so if they could get redemption, Sasuke was going to be no different.

[Aizen-Sama]

No... The ending would be even more silly than it already is if Sasuke died.

 

Saving Sasuke was tied to Naruto's ultimate goal of becoming Hokage. That is the ultimate reason why there was no way Sasuke would die. You also had Naruto using talk no jutsu to change characters like Gaara, Pain and Obito so if they could get redemption, Sasuke was going to be no different.

It would've been pretty cool though and a big kitten you to Naruto if Sasuke had died.  Would've shown that naive messiah-wannabe the realities of life and that not everyone can be saved.  Sasuke would've won in a way & even that would've been a more dignified ending for him rather than being forced to be Naruto's crony in a village he hated.

Edited by Aizen-Sama, 18 April 2015 - 08:42 AM.

[Tiller]

No... The ending would be even more silly than it already is if Sasuke died.

 

Saving Sasuke was tied to Naruto's ultimate goal of becoming Hokage. That is the ultimate reason why there was no way Sasuke would die. You also had Naruto using talk no jutsu to change characters like Gaara, Pain and Obito so if they could get redemption, Sasuke was going to be no different.

 

I can respect your opinion, but I disagree. Sasuke staying a villain and having to be put down should have not only been shown as a piece of mercy by the hand of Naruto (a final favor from an old friend to a lost one) but it also should have set up the fact that to be a true leader to your people you sometime need to put your personal feelings aside for the good of your people. Like Naruto's father did.

 

Instead we got this whole Sasuke being reward for being a bad guy... and Naruto turned into the greatest scumbag... hell he pushed the woman he saw as a kind of Grandmother out of office by calling her a "drunk".... so... yeah....

 

Hell I think the story could have theoretically be done right even without Naruto taking on the title of Hokage, but it would have been harder to do, and it's obviously beyond Kishimoto's talents.

[dejavu]

No... The ending would be even more silly than it already is if Sasuke died.
 
Saving Sasuke was tied to Naruto's ultimate goal of becoming Hokage. That is the ultimate reason why there was no way Sasuke would die. You also had Naruto using talk no jutsu to change characters like Gaara, Pain and Obito so if they could get redemption, Sasuke was going to be no different.

lol you could put it that way too.

Just look how pathetic Naruto is right now after saving Sasuke. actually doesn't the current series telling us that Naruto's goal is just to bring back the sauce and his story ends with it. So is his dignity.

Now he cries like a pussy and gives up easily because his Hinakittens went for another guy.

At the end of the day, Sasuke dying or not could both possible have sensible meaning and depth but Kishi ain't gonna give us that.

He is only good at making drama but never knew how to resolve or develop it. If he writes a detective mystery manga he'll be the type to present a close room case and give the readers a big kitten you at the end to resolve it.

Edited by dejavu, 19 April 2015 - 01:37 AM.

[Windking]

Tiller knows how I feel about this particular Subject, and some of the folks in this thread speak for me from the awnsers I provided.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

In general, no, I don't believe Sasuke should have died. As mentioned a bunch of times already, Sasuke dying would've rendered Shippuden completely pointless as his redemption was, at the time anyway, Naruto's ultimate goal, even ahead of becoming Hokage and such.

At the same time, Sasuke definitely should NOT have been let off with literally no punishment whatsoever. I've always told my friend (Bryon_Konoha_Ninja) that I believe that Sasuke should have survived, but should have also lost his eyes due to his final battle with Naruto or something. As we've seen with Sasuke, and other power-hungry Uchiha like Madara (at least before Kishi decided even Madara needed a sobby, sympathetic back story), he treasured his precious eyes more than anything, and he proves it constantly throughout the series, especially by taking Itachi's eyes and getting the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, even though he said he would never do so and didn't need them (I think the ultimate Naruto lesson after all of this is "Just be hypocrites"), and the fact that he completely relied on them and their power with the way he just kept spamming their use after obtaining the normal Mangekyo (hence why he goes almost completely blind after just a few weeks at best as opposed to Itachi, who managed to go for years because he didn't use them too much).

 

Losing his eyes would force Sasuke down to the level, or even below, others that he constantly looked down upon before simply because of his eyes and his family name. He would actually have to work hard if he wanted to live out even a normal life afterwards, and learn to accept help from others without thinking it made him look "weak" and such.

 

However, if Sasuke were to be made to die for some reason, he could only be allowed to after having some sort of deathbed style redemption scene so that, technically, Naruto still would've "succeeded" in "bringing Sasuke back", sort of like how Anakin Skywalker returns to the Light Side just before dying in Luke's arms in Return of the Jedi thus, as Anakin himself said, Luke still did save him.

[Aizen-Sama]

Sasuke losing his eyes would've been good redemption. Then putting them in Sakura & Naruto's soup so they'd be like:
"There's an eye, in me soup."

[Illnevergiveup3]

Sasuke losing his eyes would've been good redemption. Then putting them in Sakura & Naruto's soup so they'd be like:
"There's an eye, in me soup."

lol. BOOOO!!!

[Kurama]

Yes, he should have died.

 

He came back to the good side, fought the evil alongside his friends, this somewhat completed naruto's goal. He brought him back, not to the village, but to them, to their friends, to his side, to the village's side, back to team 7. So if he had died, sacrificing himself in the end, he would have made up for his mistakes. And if he had died, his character would have gained more fame, more respect, like lelouch from code geass, ace from one piece and like itachi. His character would have entered the highly respected characters' ranks. He would have become legendary in the anime-world, you know, giving people goosebumps just by watching some amv involving dead characters. The characters who died in an epic way, for an epic reason. Like if you watch the death of jiraya, the death of pein, the death of itachi, ace or lelouch, you would get emotional, get goosebumps, nostalgia would come over you and you would start getting tears in your eyes. If he had died in the end, he would have been more likeable than naruto. He would really have become legendary. So I think that if he had died, it would've been the best outcome.

[Nilad]

Hard to say, i wouldn't mind him dying in final battle against Naruto but only if series would end on that battle, otherwise no.

Although i really don't like how suddenly he's forgiven all those things he has done "Oh yeah you tried to kill a lot of important people and you basically allied with person that tried to destroy the world but since you're Naruto's special little buddy we'll totally forgive you.

[sushi.]

No. Sasuke and Naruto mirrored eachother's lives. If Sasuke'd died, so should've Naruto. And we don't need another Lelouch.

 

Original Team 7 didn't work out in the end, it could never be the same again, and Sakura's little fantasy bobble should've popped. Sasuke left and found other victims of the shinobi system, people like him, to be his new teammates. I like original Team 7, but it'd never work in the long run. Sasuke functions with Taka. Naruto functions with his comrades in Konoha.

 

What Sasuke needed was never a guilt-tripped redemption, or death, it was a change of methods. His intentions were right, and I believe that together with Naruto he could've changed the world. They would've done so in very contradictive ways, and contrasted eachother. Sasuke and his new Team understand what is wrong with their world because their world wronged them. They should've dismantled the corrupt system that made them into who they are, and taken down Orochimaru and all his connections. Naruto should've listened to him and used his power to honour those who died for him, and made the peace he always bragged about. They're two sides of one coin.

This did not happen because then there'd be no spinoff, no plot, no antagonists, no milk-money.

 

Great post on tumblr, a bit off-topic but very on-point on what is best for Sasuke and why the ending failed him.

[catsi563]

I Agree with Sushi for the most part Sasuke imo was meant to go full circle so to speak. He was meant to take Narutos place as the guy who had nothing, no trust of people, no friendships, no love. and was meant tot slowly regain those things.

Done right Sasukes redemption at the beginning would be Naruto saving him from the system that created him and in a way created them both. Then together they work to change that system for the better.

Sakura would have matured to an adult by finally falling in love with Naruto as she was doing throughout the series anyways. And embraced fully her role outside of team 7, while still maintain the familial bonds.

 

To me Team 7 was meant to end and be replaced with Sai as the new family member.

 

UI disagree though that there would be no new story out of them dismantling the system.. there would be conservatives who would howl bloody jmurder about taking back the their world and would possibly act or ambitious and greedy people seeking to profit off the recovery from the war. Our own world is rife with such stories and examples.

 

As for the blogger while she brings some interesting points and I agree somewhat with the over all premise, I disagree entirely with her notion that it was all Sakuras fault.