Dkey

Saw the spoilers on 4chan and checked the chapter.

 

Even Sarada wonders if Sakura and Sasuke are married.

 

Hinata-hime-sama didn't even appear in this chapter.

 

 

Well now that he ruined SS he just needs to ruin NH and than all pairings will be kitten.

Of course 2ch isn't a source anymore. They all turned NS after the Last movie. Gotta say it's interesting for me too see this two saying that 2chan is trash and also knowing that 2chan servers were DDoSed this days.

No idea but he/she translated the same as you did.

Kishi is mr t. He pitied the fool

She iz no heroine. She is the most powerfull villain. She destroyed the manga

Why am I getting the Feeling that this infamous NH/SS ending was really made at the last second?

I BET Scenes for NS were planned but not executed ... therefore this poster existed ... and now it got cancelled.

 

but why change at the last second.

 

I kinda blame part 3 for it. They had to have children running around or dunno.

Hinata is the final villain. Confirmed.

 

 

And the sad part. She won. No ammount of TNJ, no summon Logic, no seal of reason

btw didn't anyone notice there is a parallel in this movie.

 

 

Fan girls are stuffing Naruto with presents.

 

How does Hinata chooses to express her feelings. Also with a present. Hinata is the first fan girl.

If kishi just edited some parts of the script then for me it confirms that this movie will end in NS. Why?

Well SP are hinata fans and arguably would like to have her more relevant. So they wrote the script emphasizing the hamura part of the kaguya storyline. Now if Kiahi decided that this movie is canon then it means that all those story inconsistencies arent there or are just under a genjutsu rendering them void. As for marketing and everything its just a design feint.

Im baffled by this Naruto that is present in the movie.


No mention of Kushina

The way he falls in love and acts all jealous. Remember the long sad look of naruto jealous in part 1 and 2.

Last movie we had AU!ROOKIE 12. now we have AU!Naruto.

Guys my suggestion to all of you is keep this thread clear of speculations without proof. Its still a discussion about 699/700 so post it. What id want is for us to give chatte a helping hand to see if we can find some hope.

 

And forgiveness is the theme that we're talking about. Its the main moral in Shippuden at this point. The way that he's constructed that theme is poor. The way he's portrayed it is poor. its badly developed and because of that it sends a bad message. He could have pulled off a great message about forgiveness but instead he turned it into some cheap gimmick. Thats the problem. 

More importantly you've completely missed the point. You said that authors are judged on quality not the message they send. You were wrong. Everything they write is subject to being judged and it is. 

People judge Kishimoto because he does some things EXTREMELY well and then in the next moment he does something absolutely awful He's like a Yo-yo when it comes to writing. He gets your hopes up and then smacks you in the face with them. 
 

 

? Death would be the best option- but I don't think Kishi will do it. He likes Sasuke waaaay too much. Death is followed by roaming the world--as long as he gives up this "Revenge" and "changing the world by force" bint he's on. The last option would be being in village- Chakra sealed ( forever.) no more Sharingan so he's not much of a threat- actually this should happen even if he goes a roaming. 

Whatever his path is he shouldn't have any kids. Like I said before, thanks to Kishimoto's whole "Brain disorder" excuse there shouldn't be any more Uchiha because they're liabilities. 

 

 

You are the one who keeps bringing up that the world needs more forgiveness and that criminals are thrown away because society is too lazy to deal with them rather then acknowledging the fact that's society CAN'T deal with them. Obito has killed good people, Orochimaru has killed good people, Sasuke tried to kill good people-- no amount of forgiveness erases those deaths or keeps them from killing MORE people when things don't do their way- or hey, whenever they damn well please. 

You don't put mass murderers near good people because they kill them. Simple logic. 

You used Sakura's "thank you" as an example of Obito being forgiven or on the path to forgiveness/redemption. Hence why she was brought up.

No, Kishimoto really hasn't made them work through hell to be redeemed. What hell did Nagato go through to be redeemed? he went through hell LONG before he was redeemed, going through hell caused him to need redemption, same with Gaara, Same with Obito. 

They suffered, went crazy, realized they were wrong and were redeemed though that sudden realization. <--- realization is Kishimoto's term for Redemption. Once you realize how wrong your actions were POOF forgiveness. In actuality its Realization---> apology---> Hard work,dedication, reparations---> forgiveness from the wronged party.


Gaara is really the only one who fits that model. He forgave others, he was forgiven. He worked for it even though they were the ones who caused him to need it in the first place. Also, Naruto isn't the redemption fairy. He's not the only party required for a person to be redeemed. There is the rest of the world that matters too. 

 

Sasuke looked because Naruto said something. 

You keep contradicting yourself "He's lying to himself about not caring!" which means he must care somewhere inside

Except that he doesn't.
 

Also, No Sasuke has not changed- his goal is still revenge the method he chooses is whats changed. Rather then just kill everyone, he's going to become Hokage and kill the people who get in his way.

Nothings changed. He was going to kill Naruto because he was in the way in Part 1 and in part 2. He tried to kill Karin for being in the way, And Sakura for being in the way. Whats changed? absolutely nothing. 

Yet again "not abandoning friends" is a great message...IF SASUKE WERE A FRIEND. He's not. He does not display any "Friend" characteristics. Its all Naruto projecting friendship ONTO Sasuke. There is no Team 7 <-- Sasuke--> Naruto in part II
its all Naruto---> Sasuke<--Team 7. Everyone is giving to him and they get nothing. Friendship is about feedback. It doesn't work when one person takes it all. 

#1 rule of writing- show, don't tell. Kishi has SHOWN us that Sasuke is not a friend. 

 

 

Our reality shapes THEIR reality. They are people, we are people. They should react in a way that most people would react because they're people. 

I don't have a problem with women being saved, it was an example. I've already defended Kakashi for saving Sakura and Naruto for doing so. Its a natural, HUMAN reaction that people have.   

Chasing after someone who point blank says to leave them alone-- and considering it acceptable is not a normal reaction. Its a sign of unhealthy behavior. We like to call it stalking in the real world. 

Kishimoto has already had people picking up Sasuke's pieces. He SHOULD have been declared a missing nin by Tsunade. Instead she was convinced to let is slide because its "Sasuke" and Naruto wanted it. Normal consequences did not apply to him because of favoritism. All the negative consequences he should have experienced have so far been negated because someone has decided not to act. Hence, magically picking up the pieces.

 

Completely true. Absolutely all of it. Especially the special treatment via Tsunade and Sakura defending him.

Sasuke is spoiled by Naruto and Team 7 ( its really  Kishimoto though.) Actually...He's a complete Gary Stu when you think about it. Over powered to the max, no matter what he does everyone loves him and he can do no wrong.

Sasuke Stu. 

 

 

No the theme of Shippuden is to get Sasuke back. To save him from whatever dark corner he is.

 

People judge authors it's true but the way they are judging him is wrong. You are applying real world perspective to a world which has a different perspective on life.

 

Those mass murderers that you keep talking about don't exist the way you understand them in the Narutoverse. Obito started hating everything because of Rin's death. From Rin's death all the way to Naruto's fight he was bad. After he was changed by Naruto Obito isn't acting like a mass murderer again. The difference is that in the real world even if Obito stopped killing he would still be labeled a mass murderer. But for him killing isn't some form of addiction. In Kishi's world there are very few who are like this. And the way they are portrayed is still associated with the idea of friendship. Jugo's mass murderer urges are kept in check first by Kimimaro and afterwards Sasuke. Ok you can argue that Sasuke and Jugo aren't friends but in Jugo's perceptive they are.

 

Thing is if one wants to judge an author he needs to take into account more elements of the story not judge everything based on one set of values. A high school colleague of mine used to do this judging literature characters based on psychology. Thing is characters don't act the way their psychology teaches them but based on what the author wants.

Agree to disagree. 

If someone says "leave me alone" repeatedly you should LEAVE THEM ALONE. If someone gets VIOLENT and tells you to leave them alone, that they want nothing to do you with you- you leave them alone.

it doesn't matter if their your "Friend" or not. Once they decide they want to be left alone, they should be left alone to deal with themselves.

I can let the first time Naruto went after Sasuke slide, but everything after that? he's harassing him. He knows Sasuke doesn't want to be messed with but he keeps doing it. 


If you or I repeatedly tell someone to leave us alone and they don't--its harassment. 
 
Uh...that statement is false. Shakespeare wasn't just judged by the quality of his work but the content and the message within that content. Literary scholars constantly pick messages and themes from literature to pick apart and relay to life as we know it. 

Othello is about the dangers of jealousy, spite and revenge- they destroy everything they touch. THAT is a good moral. Hamlet was about how revenge digs a double grave ( actually it killed a lot more people then that...) for the hero and for the villain while leaving everyone touched by it scarred. True enough, good moral. 

Also, Kishi is being judged RIGHT NOW ( and not just by me.)  but by everyone reading Naruto  This entire forum is us Judging his writing- not just on the quality but the content. (The quality is COMPRISED of content you see.) Every time someone complains about him being sexist is him being judged for the quality of his work.  If he's being sexist which is viewed as a bad characteristic he's giving a bad message to readers, right?

If Sasuke acts like he does, and gets forgiven without asking for it, without making amends, without recognizing the gravity of his actions that would be Kishimoto teaching people his behavior is acceptable. So far that's whats happening so I say again; teaching kids that its okay to act the way that Sasuke does because someone is going to pick up the pieces for them and magically make things better is not a good moral. 

As you said literary scholars pick themes.
They dont take everything.
Also its kinda impossible to compare both authors. shakespeare is GRRM of his time and took serious themes which resulted in tragedies.

Kishis story wont result in tragedy.

People judge kishi mostly because he isnt giving them what they want. At the end of the manga pairing wise there will be people who would be disapointed.

Also he belongs to another culture one that is more archaic than the american one. After reading some other manga I find now kishis manga a lot better in terms of sexism. He might have destroyed sakura 3 chapters in a row but overall its still better than other manga.

Also for me as a reader it would be impossible to believe that at the end sasuke will not show remorse for what he did. Somewhere along the lines of how madara acted during konohas founding. Having sasuke act all indiferent to others around him yet be accepted back in konoha is too weird even for me

Pretty much what I've been saying for the last 6 posts. Kishimoto CAN write it, and he probably WILL write a Sasuke redemption but that doesn't mean I have to agree, like it, or accept it as good writing. Sasuke doesn't deserve it, Obito doesn't deserve to just go free, Orochimaru doesn't deserve to get away with his crap.

Its not acceptable to TEACH kids that no matter what you do, people will be accepting and love you because its an out right lie that does more damage to them then the truth does. The truth is you shouldn't treat the people who love you like crap. You shouldn't be angry, bitter and vengeful because it kills you and the people around you and if you ever decide to change its too late, you've done to much damage to get back what you had. 

Thats a better lesson to be teaching people then the one Kishimoto is trying to nail into everyone's head.

I mean, if we buy the crap that "Oh its a beautiful story about redemption and forgiveness..." You might as well just say that its acceptable for Orochimaru to use children and toss them aside like he does, that his experiments are acceptable and deserve no punishment, that his merciless murdering is A-okay. Or that Obito causing a war, killing Minato and Kushina and causing a crap ton of people to die indirectly and directly is also acceptable.

Those actions are not acceptable. Its disturbing to see them tossed under the rug of forgiveness without real consequences like they never even mattered to begin with. 

 

 

I already talked about this too earlier. but yea; there is no "Secretly he cares!" or "he's lying to himself!" if he cared even in his heart of hearts, in the depths of his mind and the tattered pieces of his soul HIS BODY WOULD HAVE MOVED. its an instinctive thing, no thoughts necessary. 

It didn't, he didn't he don't GAF. Its canon, that's all there is to it. 


 

 

Actually this world could do well with some more forgiveness in the world.

 

Kishi isn't teaching anyone that whatever you do people will accept. He is kinda stretching the idea of nakama a usual theme in this types of manga but still it's a good theme for a medium tailored for kids to understand. Most likely he is writing about his belief that any person can be reached and even reasoned with. It's a wonderful idea to teach kids. Maybe just maybe some of them will try to find other ways of solving the conflicts of their lives by focusing on resolution and not confrontation. Even those that wrong you on more unforgettable things can be forgiven. It's not necessarily a kiss and make up forgiveness but keeping that anger inside of you creates monsters. Heck Kishi even talked about the passionate side of love when he decided to give Uchiha that sickness where they go crazy if they lose someone they love.

 

Anyway no one is asking anyone to like or dislike the story. It has it's flaws but despite those flaws it still on track with what Kishi was talking about from the start.

Cmon guys,

 

What Sasuke and Naruto talked is one of the underlying themes of this manga. Doing the mission as dictated by circumstances or being a kitten and not saving your friends.

 

And Naruto experienced almost all scenarios and still fought against it from the start. For me Naruto understood what Sasuke was talking about but he is not like that . He will do everything he can to make sure his friends don't get hurt.

 

Also the way Naruto made Sasuke remember the bridge scene is even more powerful than yelling at him and saying Sasuke is stupid.

 

As for Sakura remember when Shikamaru got hit by the shinjuu tree and most of his chakra was sucked out. Well she wanted Naruto not to worry about the others and take care of himself in the fight and still Naruto helped Shikamaru unconsciously. Anyway I'm refering to Sakura here and if we will finally see some development from her after 2-3 chapters of being considered less than useless by Sasuke it's her fight and her challenge.

So anyone want to talk about how Sakura's headband fell in the lava. Doesn't seem random to me. It seems Sakura is feeling the way she felt when she was bullied when she was little.