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#61 alexander

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:38 AM

QUOTE (Tsunade @ Apr 29 2013, 02:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't believe I'm actually doing this but this needs to be done.

I respect that you believe this alexander, but can you lay off Shauna and respect what she feels needs to be done? It was only a suggestion to lock the boards FOR A FEW DAYS not end it forever. If anything Shauna is the one that I have known to want this place to keep on going. I don't know how many times she has put up with people who she knows want to be on the site but some how end up in trouble.

If the forum lock happens take sometime and have a smoothie or something.


Ok, so I see the forum won't be closed, but from Sakura serious post I had all to believe that we were getting shutdown at any second.

I'm sorry that bad stuff happens to other mods but it was not my point to insult the mods here. I get along with most of them every day, I enjoy reading Tricksie comments in the Naruto section, I enjoy talking gaming stuff with Derock, I love discussing the Silver spoon manga with Smiter, there are many of them that I honestly respect, but my problem here is that Sakura said in very serious tone that if it depended on her she would close the forum permanently, and that closing it down for an unknow time is because it's what she simply wants without the opinion of everyone in here. This is something I can't swallow. I'm all for having civil discussion and agreeing to disagree. I just found her post very extreme and felt in the need to say something about it.

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#62 Anguyen92

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:38 AM

Another interesting point I am trying to figure is, what on Earth are we all fighting about? If it is just to cut down all the drama, all the bashing, or/and all of the negativity, then we should all do it, here and now, then. We are all rational people here. It is not really that hard, right?

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#63 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:41 AM

QUOTE (alexander @ Apr 28 2013, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok, so I see the forum won't be closed, but from Sakura serious post I had all to believe that we were getting shutdown at any second.

I'm sorry that bad stuff happens to other mods but it was not my point to insult the mods here. I get along with most of them every day, I enjoy reading Tricksie comments in the Naruto section, I enjoy talking gaming stuff with Derock, I love discussing the Silver spoon manga with Smiter, there are many of them that I honestly respect, but my problem here is that Sakura said in very serious tone that if it depended on her she would close the forum permanently, and that closing it down for an unknow time is because it's what she simply wants without the opinion of everyone in here. This is something I can't swallow. I'm all for having civil discussion and agreeing to disagree. I just found her post very extreme and felt in the need to say something about it.

Which is why I said it's emotionless in Internet and it's hard for anyone to understand it 100% at first glance. Trust me, I know this all too well. That said well let's just say we all had one crazy day. Can we let it pass us? It's not easy but best for us.

#64 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:50 AM

QUOTE (Derock @ Apr 28 2013, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now, I have to apologize to you, Shadow Wolf, because right now, I felt your thread will be closed because all of this negativity.

Personally, I think the thread should remain open. After all, if it's locked then where will people go to talk about all that is happening. At least here we're allowing it to come out in the open instead of festering somewhere underneath, only to have it explode in hard-to-contain pockets in places it has no business being...like Chapter Discussion threads.

Edit -

QUOTE (alexander @ Apr 28 2013, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
but my problem here is that Sakura said in very serious tone that if it depended on her she would close the forum permanently

Yes, because I totally said Permanently, alexander... mellow.gif

QUOTE (Sakura Blossoms @ Apr 28 2013, 04:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, here is my recommendation.

I'm going to ask Smiter to lock the forum for a few days.


#65 alexander

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:52 AM

QUOTE (Sakura Blossoms @ Apr 28 2013, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm going to ask Smiter to lock the forum for a few days.

Yes, that's the ENTIRE forum.

Most people don't realize how damn good they have something until it's taken away. You'll all most likely hear from Smiter himself soon enough. And for the few good, decent, civil-acting members we have left, pray that for you he'll decide to keep the forum going. Because if it was up to me, today would the LAST day *anyone* would be allowed on for a good...long...time.


I not sure what the others would think but that sounded very final to me.

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#66 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:55 AM

Let's just wait and hope for the verdict by Smiter I believe. No need to question further. One say no shut down, other say temporary. I will just wait for the verdict. In the meantime, I'll spend my time like a normal day. happy.gif

#67 Derock

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:55 AM

Oh. MY. GOD.

Alexander, please let. IT. GO.

The decision wasn't finalize. It was only a recommendation, not a permanent one.

Just let. The f-ing issue go.

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#68 alexander

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:01 AM

QUOTE (Derock @ Apr 29 2013, 03:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh. MY. GOD.

Alexander, please let. IT. GO.

The decision wasn't finalize. It was only a recommendation, not a permanent one.

Just let. The f-ing issue go.


What?... But I'm not trying to press the issue or anything, I just responded to her comment when she doubted what I said, that's all. I know there won't be a lockdown anymore.

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#69 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:02 AM

QUOTE (alexander @ Apr 28 2013, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I not sure what the others would think but that sounded very final to me.

Again alexander, did I say *anywhere* that it would be Permanent. Why would I want to lock permanently the only and best forum I go to anymore? That I'm an Admin of? That I love so much I, with all the other Mods, put up with verbal abuse and drama all the time over? These are all rhetorical questions. I have no interest or desire to further dig into this with you. You said your piece, gave your opinion of me, and I'm very willing to move on...something we Mods wish the vast majority of you would do in the chapter threads.

Edit - What Derock just said. Bolded. All of that.

#70 Lid

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:09 AM

I can't believe how far down hill this thread got. People, please! Let's all just relax, grab a beer! Spring is here! Let's all just take it easy!

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#71 KonaKonaFan

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:32 AM

All the mods, tricksie and Shauna included, do a fantastic job. The fact that we haven't become a complete NarutoForums mess after all this nonsense is very telling about how well run this place is. Y'all really don't appreciate what you have.

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#72 Shadow Wolf

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:03 AM

Well... I was at first hesitating to reply, mainly because I don't want to be part of the chaos arising in this very thread, and also because I wanted to be as neutral as I could in this situation. But I will express my opinion after reading all the comments that have been posted here. I wish I could reply to all of them because I want to try my best to help solve the friction between some members on the forums, but I have used my time today to send PMs to some of the members and mods who have been affected by the outcome of this thread.

It honestly wasn't my intention to make this thread turn into the chaos that it is now. And thanks to what has become of it, I feel destroyed. There's really no other word to describe how I feel right now? Why do I feel like this? I don't think I need to explain it when the answer is right there in this very thread.

In the very first post of the thread, I used information to point out possible issues happening around the forums. The quotes were only evidence to show that some members were concerned about this, but then again, I don't know if quoting people was alright or not. Considering how this could be taking as bashing, I did my best to express the fact that is not about pointing a guilty party, but that my intention was to bring solutions to the problems. Hence why I repeated over and over in my first post that we need to be respectful and have a healthy and peaceful discussion. This was obviously ignored by some of the people who have replied here, and it makes me feel truly disappointed to see members of this forum doing this. A community who is supposed to be welcoming towards new people, kind towards the members and mature in their discussions have just ignored these compliments about us and have turned this thread into an excuse for them to insult others. I'm devastated and disappointed about that. My intention of this thread was to create a place where we could express our concerns (hence the title) and where we could let our admins and mods know that we are willing to contribute and help them to make this place even better.

What do I get in return? Sorrow. To see that one our mods is going to take a break because she was picked and bullied (especially in this thread), another one is angry (and considering she's currently in the hospital, that can indirectly affect her health) and many of the good members and admins/mods are disappointed of the outcome of this thread, even going as far as to say that it was expected and that one alternative that would finally make you meditate on what has happened is to lock the forum for a certain period of time. A community who is know for their good behavior and kindness is expected to turn a thread with a good purpose into something awful? And more importantly, just because you feel that you have the right to speak your mind, you fele that you have the right to insult others and break the rules? Really?

I repeated over a over again that we have to be respectful in our posts (so obviously, I begged you all to not resort to bashing, flaming, nor anything of the like). You guys know who of you broke the rules in this thread, you know who were the ones who created chaos in this thread and I sincerely hope that you are mature enough to admit your mistakes and work on correcting the damage you created. I'm truly saddened and angry at the fact that, what has the potential of becoming a thread that will strengthen the bonds between both members and admins and mods has turned into the complete opposite. I'm truly saddened by this.

I've been discouraged from participating in any thread anymore, and I have been discouraged from considering the fact that the majority of the members of this community were mature enough to make this thread a nice thread where we could discuss issues happening and reach viable and peaceful solutions. So in the end, I only hope that these people learn from what they did here and work on becoming better members instead of the opposite.

....*breathes*

With that said, I also want to address the people who actually made good posts and advices in this thread, You understood the meaning of this thread a you did your best to post good arguments and advices to help our forum become a better place. There have been a group of people who have shown interest in solving the issues happening here at Heaven and Earth and that have also been very respectful and polite in their replies. That actually made me smile despite the gloomy atmosphere I have right now. It actually made me feel that we have members who care for Heaven and Earth and you have proven to be grateful for that. I'm kinda sad that my reply to these good members is shorter, but I hope that these few words hold the same (if nor more) meaning than my long reply of disappointment above. You guys deserve an applause and a hug for being an example for the H&E community.

Finally, I want to address the mods and admins. I don't wish to say much, but I also thank you for monitoring this thread and doing what you could to promote peace both in the forum and in this thread. It saddens me to see what some members have done to you and I want to apologize for that (not on their behalf, but on my behalf). I created this thread for what I believed was a good purpose, but it has just the opposite effect; and in all honesty, sometimes I think to myself that maybe it was better to not have created this thread at all; because if this thread did not exist, we would not have had the chaos that has happened. I'm truly sorry about that and if there is anything I can do to make it up to every mod and admin affected one way or another by this thread, let me know what I can do and I will do it. As for the thread, as admins and mods, I feel like you have more experience than me, so I will leave the decision in your hands. If it were for me, I would delete the harmful posts in this thread, warn the members who have created chaos and keep the good posts that many members did in this thread. Again, my purpose of this thread is to address the issues around Heaven and Earth and promote the communication between every member of the forum in a peaceful way. Thus I don't believe that something as big as locking the entire forum is necessary.

But!!!!!.... As I stated earlier, you have more experience and knowledge than me, so whatever happens, I will respect and support your decision.

I'm truly tired, both mentally and emotionally, after this day. I have lost my faith and now I am confused as to if what I did was right and about what I should do now. But I think that's nothing compared to what other members of this forum are currently going through. Once again, I apologize to those affected by the chaos in this thread. I'm truly sorry that you were hurt and even though I don't know how to proceed, I hope I can help those wounds heal in due time.

Thanks to the members who made good posts in this thread and to the admins and mods for all the help.

Louis (Shadow Wolf)

Edited by Shadow Wolf, 29 April 2013 - 05:05 AM.


#73 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:57 AM

A much better place than most to close the thread for the meantime, until at least Smiter has a chance to chime in on all that has happened, and all that has been said.

Thread (temporarily) closed.

#74 Smiter

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:23 PM

I have been reading through everyone's posts in this thread over the past day, and I have discussed the issues with the mods.

First of all, I would like to say a big thank you to JoHamSandwich, Tsunade, shadow_uzumaki and Cloud for their kind posts of support. smile.gif We really, really appreciate it.

Now, I know that we have been having problems on the website in recent months, and H&E has developed a negative atmosphere, especially when it comes to discussion about pairings and manga chapters. The mods and I have been concerned about that for some time, and have been trying to help with that.

We don't want to censor opinions, but we also don't want members jumping down each other's throats. There is a line, and it can get blurry in places. We do recognise that our policy of silence sometimes does not help matters, and as a result some conspiracy theories fly around.

I want to be crystal clear. There is no "us versus them" going on. We mods are just trying to do our jobs and enforce The Rules of Conduct, and everyone is treated equally.

The reason we usually stay silent is because we don't believe in publicly "naming and shaming", and there have also been extremely sensitive situations where we kept our silence in order to protect members.

Everyone on the mod team has talked about this, and we have decided that we will create an official thread where everyone can have a Q&A with the mods to talk about issues and ask for clarification on things. This will be done tomorrow morning. happy.gif

We also realise that another reason for the negative atmosphere is because people have been very focused on certain issues and found it hard to move on and look forward. We need to be able to step forward and breathe in some fresh air. We've been working on some new H&E developments for some time, and perhaps it is time to reveal them. smile.gif I hope that we will be able to share some exciting developments this weekend and get everyone involved in building the next generation of Heaven & Earth!

I am sorry that this is a short post, unfortunately I have to dash off to work! I just wanted to get something out here and show everyone that we have all been reading everyone's posts and talking about what we can do. smile.gif

#75 CloudMountainJuror

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:56 PM

A Q&A thread? That's a great idea.

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Fare thee well, Albert, my friend."

 

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#76 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 09:01 PM

QUOTE (zacrathedemon5 @ Apr 30 2013, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A Q&A thread? That's a great idea.

A great idea that was put forth by our most recently beleaguered Mod, tricksie.

#77 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 09:15 PM

That's great to hear. I can't speak for all of us but I am sorry for causing so much commotion in this place. It's only 1 year that I have been a member and I already reach to a high level. Not that I don't have anything else to do, because I do, it's just that I really like it here. I hope everything will get back to normal. Thank you. smile.gif

#78 KonaKonaFan

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:25 AM

Aaaaand another fantastic example of running this place well, further proving the point in my previous post in this thread.

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#79 Shadow Wolf

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:45 PM

Well, I don't know what to say. To be honest, I'm quite happy that something good came out of this (well, maybe that sounds a bit too negative, but I hope that you understand me, hehehe *nervous laugh*). What I'm sure of, though, is that we can create many more good thing out of this. We had a bit of a rough time, but putting that aside, we can achieve good results. smile.gif

Many people say that I was brave when starting a thread like this, but in reality, I'm not. In fact, I have to thank you all because if was you who gave me the courage to do something. Many of you want to see a good mood around Heaven and Earth (especially when we return either from a tough day at work or simply from a difficult day, right? You could say that this is our paradise of sorts), and one way or another, you're working on it. The members are working on it, and so are the mods and admins. And when everyone puts effort into something, the results will be inevitable and beneficial. Once again, I want to thank you for your kind efforts. Credits to the people who helped me create this thread, credits to the members who replied to it with a kind behavior, and credits to the mods and admins for your job.

Finally, I'm not sure if this will be the last post -since we have a Q&A thread now. BTW, credits to tricksie for the idea. Well done!- (link: http://www.narusaku....p;#entry458820), but I do want to quote a few words from a kind friend (they're going to be edited a bit, so I apologize in advance for that, but I thank you for everything you have done. You're a true friend. smile.gif ):

Our desire to see our heroine in action and to see more moments of our beloved couple (NaruSaku of course) triggers a feeling of fear and impatience in us. The fear of not seeing our couple nor our heroine in action as each chapter progresses (along with what we've seen in the form of chapter 615 onwards) makes our desire to see Sakura and NS moments grow weary. Some of us can become sensitive, demanding, or simply sad due to the fact that we feel that Kishimoto is neglecting his quality in his writing and of course, the way he handles Sakura. This feeling is understandable, since many of us feel it in one way or another.

However, this has lead us to criticize one another because not everyone shares the same expectations. Some have higher expectations than others... others are more aware of the difference between a chapter that is well written and a chapter that lacks quality... and others simply want to see results "now". We have a big fandom here, so is understandable that we have many different mindsets and many different ideals and expectations; and that very last statement is something that we have to keep in mind when treating others here in Heaven and Earth. Most of us want to see NS become canon, and in the end, Kishi is the one who will determine if it will happen or not. We have the privilege to share our opinion about how he has handled the manga and the characters, but as long as we're respectful towards each other, we can achieve a mutual understanding between each other and keep sharing opinions, ideas, and debates about Naruto and about other topics. Like some of the members have mentioned in this thread: we have a variety of topics to talk about, and not only about Naruto. That's why we have other sections in this forum, right?

But the main point is: let's try to understand each other whenever we have a discussion. Some members are more sensitive than others, so if we keep things like these in mind whenever we're about to post something, I'm sure that we'll be able to have a nice discussion. happy.gif

Another point which is very valid is that... Yes, we expect Kishi to handle his manga in the way that he meets our expectations, but again, we all have different expectations. Not everyone will be happy about the chapters and we also have to understand that. There's a probability and a possibility for Sakura not showing, for NS moments to not happen in every single chapter; and that's something that we have to keep in mind. After all, no one is "predictable", right? Not even Kishimoto. With that said, there's no reason to lose hope. The manga isn't over, and as long as the manga isn't over, the possibilities and probabilities will still exist. The ones who have let go of those (of the possibilities and probabilities) have the right to do so and the ones who are still holding on to these also have the right to do so too.

And speaking of the manga, we have to keep in mind that we're only handled one piece of a puzzle every week. We don't have the complete puzzle yet, so as long as we don't have that, we will still look for what the next piece of the puzzle will be. The chapters are only a part of a volume and and the volumes are part of the manga, so it means that each chapter is a small piece of something much greater. With that said, results will not appear right away. We will be left with cliffhangers and questions every time a chapter ends (unless the chapter marks the end of an arc/volume, and even in those we will still be left with questions). So this may be too much to ask, but let's be patient; and of course, if someone else's opinion is different than yours, as long as is not flaming nor bashing, let's not jump on each other. This thread is a prime example of what happens when we jump on each other's throats, and we have seen how bad things can be when this happens. We are all better than this, and I trust this fact. After all, we're pretty much the top NS forum, right? happy.gif

Anyway, I guess I lied to myself when I mentioned that I didn't know what to say (how did this post grow so big? :O ). But in the end, I'm happy that we could take a step forward in solving some of the issues here at H&E. I'm going to put the rope in my neck and say that not everyone might be satisfied with the results. And if this is the case, I want to encourage you to keep bringing ideas and opinions about how Heaven and Earth can be improved. There are many ideas in the shape of diamonds buried in the ground, so is up to you guys to uncover them and bring them here to Heaven and Earth.

So from me to all of you, thanks for your efforts. Keep up the good work and I'll see you all later. wave.gif

Louis (Shadow Wolf)



#80 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:25 PM

Again, this is a better place than most to close things off. As Shadow has stated we now have a MOD Q&A thread up, so please direct any other questions, comments, concerns etc to that thread and we'll see you all there smile.gif




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