29 replies to this topic

[Sakura Blossoms]

Because people are still whining and complaining about the current Mod selections...(even though every single Mod that I've nominated so far, has worked out to the great benefit of the site, and the members here)...and saying that seniority matters way more than what the nominated individual can bring to the site (and in the cases of whomever has been nominated already has done for this site)...I have been keeping quiet about why I didn't choose certain people, because I didn't want to place them into the spotlight...but certain individuals just will...not...let...this...go, and so I will now personally list of each and every single reason why 'such and such' a person was not picked, and we can see if we can't get this whole completely ridiculous situation resolved.

Is there anyone else someone would like to suggest to me that we should have picked instead?

[Rix the Very Affectionate Lego!]

LOL, Warned in LC, my bad I am such a terrible person..... (slaps myself)

[Tsunade]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Nice to know.

[Rix the Very Affectionate Lego!]

BTW lets just put this put there because I myself wasnt questioning their promotions, I was just simply saying how those who WERENT PICKED MUST have felt so dont see me as some snot even though I am one ^^;

[Nick Soapdish]

Just to clarify, this doesn't necessarily mean that we think that these people would make bad moderators. It just means that we thought that we had better candidates and this is part of explaining why.

[Ashley]

Ohh! I see now! That's sort of interesting though.

[Vyse]

This turned out to be much longer than I intended it to be, but before you read it I want to say again that I didn't write this to offend anyone, even if I think there shouldn't be anything in there that would be offensive. But you never know do you? This is just my thoughts on this whole thing and me trying to make people understand that it really isn't such a big deal.

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

To be honest, I wanted to ignore this thread with all I had in me. I felt like I had managed to say most of what I wanted to say in Tsu-chan’s thread, but I still couldn’t manage to fall asleep without at least writing this down.

Now, while I think it’s a good thing that people actually say what they feel and talk about it, I’m confused whether or not this holds any worth at all. I’m probably one of the few (if not the only one) who thought Tsu-chan’s thread held any worth to a forum like this, and I felt I got that out in my last post in said thread even though it was completely ignored before the thread’s deletion.

So where do we start? It’s easiest to just go off with the whole moderator-issue here. As a person with a lot of experience when it comes to moderating forums or administer them, I fail to see the big deal here. I understand what happens, but that is just an expected reaction to people getting this “job”. This is what happens when people aren’t going about this as they should. What is a moderator? They are a member of the very same community that you’re a member off, only they hold an ounce of responsibility for keeping these boards running. Let me put it this way:

Think of this community as a house. Now, the moderators would be the live-in cleaning ladies/nanny because the parents (admins obviously) can’t handle a big household alone. So we have these people who take part in your daily life, but they are responsible for cleaning up the mess the kids (regular members) makes every day. Without these people, you would stand up to your ankles in crap. So that should put it in perspective, no? We understand that the moderators on a forum aren’t there because they hold a powerful position, but because they’re needed to help make this household run smoothly. Now we have the admins on most boards like this one, I would say the admins are the “evil” step-parent! Why is that? Because every single time something goes wrong, it somehow becomes their fault, and they’re not obliged to take any lip from you as a kid who lives under their roof. You feel like you should have something to say, which I agree is a good thing, but it’s ultimately up to them to make choices, even if they may not be the correct one. Now if the step-parent isn’t at fault, it’s always the hired help who has screwed up in people’s eyes.

What I think is that the main problem lies in the fact that people see this as a ranking system. It might be exactly what it is, but then again it’s not like it makes them a bigger part of the community as a whole. Let’s say you go to a party, and you discover that there are only guys at the party. That sure puts a limit to how much fun you can have, now doesn’t it? What I mean is that while there may not be much of a forum without people to withhold the rules, there wouldn’t be a forum without the regular members either. So we’re all the same, only some of us have the delightful job of being the ones who gets to be the ones who takes the blame for everything. Now aren’t they a lucky bunch?

I think that more or less sums up what I think about the whole “OMG I don’t like the choices made” thing, and I just have to remind you that I don’t take any sides in this problem. Which reminds me; why are there sides? This is an annoyance not only to the admins and moderators, but to the regular members as well. I won’t point any fingers, since I just so happen to blame everyone (except the completely inactive members, but that should be a given) and I don’t see what the big deal is. So it was held a secret that the admins were deciding on people to be the new moderators, and they came out of nowhere with the announcement. So what? Now both “sides” could have handled this with more tact, but that’s not what I expect from these kinds of forums (that’s not meant to be offending, I’m talking about the type of boards, not the people running it) and I got what I expected.

Now why would I even care what’s said and done? Because I feel like people are acting like kindergarteners. Two people who I believe will be as good a choice for this “job” as any of the other members on these boards go to be mods, and some others don’t like it. Ok, that’s good. This is where we should talk about the whys and who’s right? But then it comes to the big guys who take this the wrong way. This is a norm I’ve noticed more than once since I registered as a member here on H&E, and is one of the reasons why I didn’t bother making an effort to be an active member here in the beginning. People post their thoughts, which just happen to be negative in one way or another, and someone ends up taking offense. Now in this case, Tsunade didn’t agree with the choices of new mods and spoke her mind about this. The problem was that the thread started out with a bang, and we had some people who couldn’t handle this in a constructive manner. Criticism is just as important for a forum as well wishes and pretty hearts and hugs, but it should still be constructive. In that thread we had one problem child who stuck out, but I read posts there who actually had some value and should be discussed, and I hoped I got my point through in that very last post before the thread was closed. This is also where I think you did wrong Shauna! While I can see why you did it, I think it would be better to let people say what they wanted to say, and rather have the mods actually do some modding and keep the thread constructive and on topic instead of closing the thing and deleting it all. It could end up going better if given a shot! I was hoping for people to get to an agreement and see why it doesn’t matter that Rick and Danny got to be moderators when people felt other ones were better qualified, but it was closed and deleted.

Then we get this thread, which I find to hold just as much value as the one Tsunade created; only this time it is because the admins want to put an end to things, and I'm ok with that. If you feel like you have to explain yourselves and the choices you made, please do! This could have been over with days ago, but I guess it was just how it was meant to be (I sound like some Neji-cosplayer... FATE!). This thread is the same thread, only slightly tweaked and without any forumtrolls to mess things up (yet). But now that I’ve gotten everything I’ve wanted to say off my shoulders, I hope we can all just let things be and live with it. Don’t think that just because Rick and Danny are mods now, they’re any more important to the forum than the other members. They just have to make sure we don’t screw things up and turn this community into a more unpleasant place to be than it is at this moment.

I hope you all understand that I’m not trying to put any more blame on others, since we could all have just shut up and dealt with it from the moment the bomb was dropped, but now that we’re here already it’s time to let it go. Rick and Danny are mods, and I’m sure they will do a damn good job, just as the other mods and admins have been doing for ages already. Of course, no person can stay active and not do some mistakes once in a while, but that doesn’t make anyone less qualified. Being a mod isn’t about how smart you are, or your level of education. It’s about having enough guts to be the bad guy and stop things before it blows out of proportions, and to clean up other mess. I’ve seen mods and admins break the rules here, which means they’re no different from you. They’re just the ones who have to actually do something about it. Please just let this whole thing go now, because I’m really tired of all this crap about people blaming others etc when it really isn't a big deal. I guess I got a little carried away with this post, but it’s something I had to say and I wanted to let everyone know what I thought about this.

H&E isn’t perfect, but what do you expect from a community with almost four thousand members? Now let me sleep and I’ll see you all tomorrow when my mind is less tired. And remember that this is just my thoughts from my own pov, and people are welcome to disagree with me. Just don't expect me to change my mind!

[Sakura Blossoms]

instead of closing the thing and deleting it all. It could end up going better if given a shot! I was hoping for people to get to an agreement and see why it doesn’t matter that Rick and Danny got to be moderators when people felt other ones were better qualified, but it was closed and deleted.

Then we get this thread, which I find to hold just as much value as the one Tsunade created; only this time it is because the admins want to put an end to things, and I'm ok with that.

Tsunade's thread wasn't deleted.

And, I'm taking flak for creating this thread, so really Vyse...I can't win either way ^^

[Derock]

Geez...how long have you been typing that Vyse?

You summed up excellent points. Now the issue here is this...

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

Can't we ALL just move on?! I about to be sick and tired of people complaining about the mod selection issue. And as a mod, I'm very disappointed at the members (I'm not pointing any fingers), you should be ashame of yourselves, teens and/or adults, acting like 5 year olds. This is about making this community better, not about status or rank. The reason why Rick and Danny were chosen as mods because of their good behavior, follow the forum rules, participating and helping out in the forum. And that is a moderator suppose to do, all of those actions I had mentioned before in order to make this place safe and peaceful from all the craziness and drama that will ruin the reputation of the community.

Seriously, all of you, LET. IT. GO.

[Wilson]

Ok, I agree with vyse and his theory and for one thing, i reckon this event happening is a reminder for us all.

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

Right, I know I was one of teh ones that was on the 'supportive' side, and many of you may find me arguing a little too harshly. Yes, and for that i apologize, because some of the arguments that broke out, I had partial responsibility, that's point 1.

Now, the main point. This is the first eva forum i've joined, and the last one probably. I find it very lucky that I was able to be one of THIS ONE, Heaven and earth, and meet all you guys and get new friends. It's all a new thing to me really, and I treat this like my second family to be honest.

The thing that got me so confused, was why some of you put so little trust in the new mods. Even if they weren't the BEST choices, they were chosen becoz they must have SOMETHING that was within them that got the approval of the admins.

And the reason I lashed out was becoz I see some of us, swearing at each other, yelling and doing all sorts of stuff you dun usually do and become like, ENEMIES. I really dun like that.

I'm in LC a lot, and till that event, it's always been friends chatting and gathering, yet that all changes in a mere second!

You guys have your opinions, we all have them, and they are different, but really, this could have been settled in a much quieter way. There was really no need to gang up and form two sides.

All I really want to get out, is that we are all here, because we have a common interest, and that is the anime Naruto and it's pairings and we became friends here and got to know one another.

I really dun want us to end up against each other just becoz of stuff liek this. The admins deserve our trust.
Your opinions all matter, but there will always be others against you. That is a fact.

But we all gotta understand that not everthing can go your way and not everything's perfect. We have to make compromises and to accept stuff.

This time, some of us nearly lost friendship and even gained hatred, but all's settled now and hopefully, it'll all be back to normal soon enough.

I am of those involved, I know how I feel, and it doesn't feel gd to argue with people that I treat as my friends.

So what I'm saying is, we should treat this as a lesson learnt. And not anything else. Don't blame the event for happening. Becoz if this doesn't happen, something else will.

We are heaven and earth, together, a TEAM. Where is the spirit that we've shown in LC when we debate against NH pairings and stuff like that? The fun we had!

I want to find it back and erase the awkward moments. I really do, because to me, you guys are my friends, always.

It's cheesy, it's corny, i don't care. It's how I feel, it's what i just said. Those are my rules. I say what I think.

Now, if you think I sound like a hypocrite, ignore the post. But otherwise, that's the end of this. I hope.

There, I got it out. To be honest, I was seriously considering whether to post this, but in the end, I decided i had to.

I once again apologize to all thsoe that i might have offended and sincerely hope you accept my apology. THank you.

[Yoko]

Right. The best solution for all of this crap would to just be to LET IT GO, as Derock says.

Or forget about it. completely. =___= Honestly, this has gotten way too out of hand, it's insane.

[Rix the Very Affectionate Lego!]

Its easy to say let it go when you are where others thought they could have very well been right? Now I wasnt trying to get lippy as you said Vyse, I was mearly talking about how it would feel for those who didnt get chosen because up until yesterday I WASNT even apart of this Mod discussion it was basically a chain Message between Rickp2006, Shauna, and myself. There is no winning here because you already started chipping away at that stone carving in Rick and Danny's names. Now now acting like a 5 year old no, because people feel like they put the time into this community even if it was just to talk. You may have been in our position once eh try to see it our way even though I doubt you two even put mind into it.
I am sorry but its kind of hard to compare someone who was only here for 5-6 months to someone who was here for a year, or three. Now if my bad behavior on those few days defined what I could possibly do as a moderator after a about a year of activity, I guess should never run any forum that was remotely PG-13 again =\

(btw I totally didnt read the entire post of yours Vyse, it is 7 in the am and I was too tired)

<3 :3

[Chidori Mistress]

lol.
Well.....Yeah I spam in LC.
Numerous times on the boards? I did it twice.
Once in the Sakura-chan FC and the second time in the Great NS FC Chat thread.
The second time, I didn't even know it wasn't allowed there since whenever someone makes a spam thread an admin/mod say "This is spam, post in the Chat thread,"
As for the first time, I just simply thought "This is an FC and It's in the Fun Cafe. All FCs have spam. XD"
However I was told it was wrong afterwards so whatever.

Minor. I'm no spambot, I can cut down on spam.
Sometimes I don't even know what classifies as spam anymore.
e.g Me and Sqleon having a discussion in LC about Neon Genesis Evangelion and getting told to stop that, while others were talking about moobs.

Oh well.....
Concerning the Mod selection issue, perhaps people are just annoyed because they would also like a say in who they would like to become mods.
I don't know.

Well someone who isn't on that list is SakuDotz.
I think she'd be a decent mod.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Now if my bad behavior on those few days defined what I could possibly do as a moderator after a about a year of activity, I guess should never run any forum that was remotely PG-13 again =\

Rix...it wasn't for just a few days as you state...you may not see how you act sometimes in LC because well...it's just how your personality is, so I guess you wouldn't see it for yourself, but it can be seem by others around you. I am not trying to offend you in any way here, and I am painstakingly trying to choose my words here. If you would like the complete reason why even though you have been around for a longer time, you were not chosen then just can send me a private PM, and I will tell you there.

You may have been in our position once eh try to see it our way even though I doubt you two even put mind into it.

You act as if this decision was just made on a whim, or it was just decided like 'okay yeah...one day...decision made...done.'

No...this decision making process has been going on since mid-December, and the announcement was only made this past week...so it wasn't something that we just 'up and decided' one day. It was thought out, and there was a lot of time devoted to it. It wasn't just some random whim.

I am sorry but its kind of hard to compare someone who was only here for 5-6 months to someone who was here for a year, or three.

And this whole "I've been here longer so I deserve the position" argument...I mean I can see where your disgruntlement over that would come from, but it's been stated over and over again now, that new Mods are chosen not because they have X amount of posts, or because they've been here for X amount of months or years...that would be a pretty shallow and fairly useless way to pick a Mod, as that's not looking at a persons qualifications, and what they can bring to the site, and the help and support that they can offer to the members who come here.

As someone else mentioned somewhere above I believe, you are comparing it to like a general who has had more years of experience, as being that one who should have been chosen. Okay, I can see how that comparison would work, and I am not disputing it.

But, here's another comparison for you...it's like having a young, star batter who has only been in the game a few months, but has already proven himself to be an asset to his team, as he keeps on hitting them out of the park, and has already done much for the community that his team is a part of by going out there, playing with the kids, talking with the parents and adults, giving back to his community in anyway that he can, and as a result of all of his hard work both on and off the field, he is named most valuable player. Of course the older members who may have been on the team longer than him may feel put out. But it's not like anyone is undercutting their value and experience to the team. They are valued, and they are respected as much as the younger player is. And it's not the younger player's fault that he has only been around for a few months, yet received the recognition that he did. Because even though he has been around for a shorter time than they have, even in those few short months, he has done so much for his community and team, and only wishes the best for everyone around him, and it wouldn't be fair to hold a grudge against that younger player just because he was here for a shorter time, and just completely ignore how much he is trying to help all of those around him.

I have just one last thing to say on this subject, and that is when krisk was chosen as a Mod...and she herself hadn't been a member of H&E for that very long either...there was none of this arguing and protesting. And even though she hadn't been around as long as some other members...(and again number of months and years has absolutely nothing to do with Mod selection)...and I know that there were a few misgivings about whether she could do the job well...though no where near the level of contention that has been going on since this latest Mod selection...there isn't one single person now who can tell me that krisk hasn't been an absolute asset to both Heaven and Earth, and the members who come here. Just like all of the Mod selections of the past, and now the present day ones, her nomination wasn't just a 'whim', and there was a lot of thought and discussion about what she could bring to the site, and she has proven our faith in her many times over.

And to bring one more example of someone who was 'younger', but this time in terms of actual age, Ani who at the time of her nomination was only 15, has also proven time, and time, and time again how valuable, awesome, and great of a Mod and person she is, and I don't think that there is a single person here who would disagree with me on that.

When we make Mod selections we don't do it by 'playing favourites', nominating our friends, or 'looking over' and disregarding more 'senior' members...there is a proven process in place, and we will continue to use that set process to make any future Mod selections, because you know what...it works.

[JoHamSandwich]

Well someone who isn't on that list is SakuDotz.
I think she'd be a decent mod.

I second that. XD

[Sakura Blossoms]

Well someone who isn't on that list is SakuDotz.
I think she'd be a decent mod.

And I agree with you, and her name was considered this time around, and if she is still here in the future, and we need a new Mod, and she wants to take on this increasingly contested position of H&E Mod, then she will be seriously considered again

But there were a couple of reasons why she wasn't chosen this time around, but I am no longer going to list reasons, as I do not want to put anyone else in the spotlight, and if she wants to know those reasons herself, then she can send me a PM, and I will tell her the reasons why.

[Deidara Lover]

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

Rix...it wasn't for just a few days as you state...you may not see how you act sometimes in LC because well...it's just how your personality is, so I guess you wouldn't see it for yourself, but it can be seem by others around you. I am not trying to offend you in any way here, and I am painstakingly trying to choose my words here. If you would like the complete reason why even though you have been around for a longer time, you were not chosen then just can send me a private PM, and I will tell you there.


You act as if this decision was just made on a whim, or it was just decided like 'okay yeah...one day...decision made...done.'

No...this decision making process has been going on since mid-December, and the announcement was only made this past week...so it wasn't something that we just 'up and decided' one day. It was thought out, and there was a lot of time devoted to it. It wasn't just some random whim.


And this whole "I've been here longer so I deserve the position" argument...I mean I can see where your disgruntlement over that would come from, but it's been stated over and over again now, that new Mods are chosen not because they have X amount of posts, or because they've been here for X amount of months or years...that would be a pretty shallow and fairly useless way to pick a Mod, as that's not looking at a persons qualifications, and what they can bring to the site, and the help and support that they can offer to the members who come here.

As someone else mentioned somewhere above I believe, you are comparing it to like a general who has had more years of experience, as being that one who should have been chosen. Okay, I can see how that comparison would work, and I am not disputing it.

But, here's another comparison for you...it's like having a young, star batter who has only been in the game a few months, but has already proven himself to be an asset to his team, as he keeps on hitting them out of the park, and has already done much for the community that his team is a part of by going out there, playing with the kids, talking with the parents and adults, giving back to his community in anyway that he can, and as a result of all of his hard work both on and off the field, he is named most valuable player. Of course the older members who may have been on the team longer than him may feel put out. But it's not like anyone is undercutting their value and experience to the team. They are valued, and they are respected as much as the younger player is. And it's not the younger player's fault that he has only been around for a few months, yet received the recognition that he did. Because even though he has been around for a shorter time than they have, even in those few short months, he has done so much for his community and team, and only wishes the best for everyone around him, and it wouldn't be fair to hold a grudge against that younger player just because he was here for a shorter time, and just completely ignore how much he is trying to help all of those around him.

I have just one last thing to say on this subject, and that is when krisk was chosen as a Mod...and she herself hadn't been a member of H&E for that very long either...there was none of this arguing and protesting. And even though she hadn't been around as long as some other members...(and again number of months and years has absolutely nothing to do with Mod selection)...and I know that there were a few misgivings about whether she could do the job well...though no where near the level of contention that has been going on since this latest Mod selection...there isn't one single person now who can tell me that krisk hasn't been an absolute asset to both Heaven and Earth, and the members who come here. Just like all of the Mod selections of the past, and now the present day ones, her nomination wasn't just a 'whim', and there was a lot of thought and discussion about what she could bring to the site, and she has proven our faith in her many times over.

And to bring one more example of someone who was 'younger', but this time in terms of actual age, Ani who at the time of her nomination was only 15, has also proven time, and time, and time again how valuable, awesome, and great of a Mod and person she is, and I don't think that there is a single person here who would disagree with me on that.

When we make Mod selections we don't do it by 'playing favourites', nominating our friends, or 'looking over' and disregarding more 'senior' members...there is a proven process in place, and we will continue to use that set process to make any future Mod selections, because you know what...it works.

I agree with all of that, Shauna.

I've been an a staff member on various of my own forums, and others. We've encounter this problem many many times before.

It doesn't matter if you have some large number of posts, or if you've been here longer than most. Its the thought that counts. As Shauna said, stated above in the quote, the staff doesn't just go and pick some person and make them a staff member. They analyze and look over the people who that think is best. If their friendly to the other members, if they follow the rules, if they actually help people out. Mods are everyday people. They act how mods should act.

When we make Mod selections we don't do it by 'playing favourites', nominating our friends, or 'looking over' and disregarding more 'senior' members...there is a proven process in place, and we will continue to use that set process to make any future Mod selections, because you know what...it works.

I agree with all of that right there. ^ Choosing new mods takes consideration and a full though process. Shauna even said it started Mid-December, about a month and a...half ago? I dunno, but indeed this has turned out into a *toublesome* problem. I'd say more, but I rather not. <<

[MagusKyros]

The duty of a mod is to make sure people stay in line. You don't need to be here for an X amount of time to know how a certain person's character is. The mods recently selected are good enough to be mods and I honestly have no complaints about that.

Truly, a good mod would be one who doesn't beg to be one.

[Nate River]

Rick has been here for 9 months, not 5-6, and Danny HAS been here for a year and has 1,700 posts (more than some of the active mods). Rick has almost 1,000 and is present in chat on a nightly basis. Over the past month I've let Rick watch the chat when I've had to step out briefly (as opposed to it being unwatched ot shutdown) because I trust him to be able to handle it. He's active, mature, and I know I can count on him.

As far as those who didn't get picked, I'm not sure what we're to do about that Rix, do we just promote everyone who wants it? Or nobody? It's about the only way to ensure that no one feels left out. It's not that I'm completely unsympathetic, there is no way to ensure nobody ends up upset.

The reason I'm upset about it is because there's been more complaining than anything else.. The previous thread was yelling back and forth. . And the chat was worse. Moreover, it seems that there is a belief that seniority trumps all, but there haven't been very many alternatives suggested and no one has explained why they think the current selections are inadequate or why these other choices are more preferred, save seniority. If people thought others should have been nomimated, they could at least explain why instead of whining about the moderator team.

It's very important that moderators, be active, involved, and mature, because as moderators, they are going to have to be active. It's work. It's not just a nameplate.

[Chidori Mistress]

Truly, a good mod would be one who doesn't beg to be one.

Oh really, now?
Well according to a number of members that didn't limit one person from becoming a mod.
Either way, who cares?
Someone can still be a good mod even if they beg for it, it also shows they show an interest in the job anyway.