54216 replies to this topic

[luffyq1]

And what about the previous wars?

Who took his brothers lifes?

 

I'm sorry, but when I read all of you, it's like Madara was born as a bad guy.

The big problem is not Uchiha, but that weird fruit to begin with. That's why there is war, hate and loss. Uchiha is just the big victim of the last past years...

Uchiha's are basically born with time-bombs strapped on them. The moment they start to feel love toward friends and/or loved ones it goes off. Too bad Madara was born in such a cruel era that only sped up his time-bomb. So yeah, more or less, Madara would have eventually became Aizen of the Narutoverse. But you're right in regards to the fruit. Uchiha and Senju are not the victim.

Edited by luffyq1, 18 February 2014 - 09:58 PM.

[Sojobo]

Uchiha's are basically born with time-bombs strapped on them.

Than why didn't Itachi, Kagami and Shisui become evil?

Especially Itachi who was forced to kill his family.

 

That Uchiha curse, it doesn't matter, especially when you look at Itachi and Shisui.

Edited by Sojobo, 18 February 2014 - 10:01 PM.

[luffyq1]

Than why didn't Itachi, Kagami and Shisui become evil?

Especially Itachi who was forced to kill his family.

 

That Uchiha curse, it doesn't matter, especially when you look at Itachi and Shisui.

You and I both know that the Uchiha curse was pulled outta his ass. Kishi doesn't think that far ahead. The man didn't even know how to defeat Madara.

[sushi.]

HELL NO to putting all the blame on the system , the system is only partially to blame but the people who chose to go the way they did is more to blame imo , they had a choice all of them just like Tsunade , Kakashi , Naruto , Hashirama and many others , they have all suffered from the system and the shinobi world itself but did they chose to go the way that the Uciha's went no they chose the more peaceful path to change the shinobi world , that's why i have no pity for the Uciha's and the other villains not Sasuke , Madara , Obito or anyone of them for me they are the ultimate cowards and there is no excuse for the deeds that they have committed .       

Yes, our heroes have withstood the system. That's why they're heroes. But, the solution relies in changing it. We will get nothing out of pointing fingers at the villains, but that doesn't mean I pity them. The villains are responsible, but there's no use putting all the blame on them. Find what they have in common, the fundamental source and break it down.

 

Let's just say if the system had been right, people like Danzo would not have the power to turn people evil.

That's my point here.

Edited by sushi., 18 February 2014 - 10:19 PM.

[FireFox]

And what about the previous wars?

Who took his brothers lifes?

 

I'm sorry, but when I read all of you, it's like Madara was born as a bad guy.

The big problem is not Uchiha, but that weird fruit to begin with. That's why there is war, hate and loss. Uchiha is just the big victim of the last past years...

So just because they are a victim like every single shinobi of the cruel ninja world i should give them a pass or sympathize with them for the things that they have done when others went for the more peaceful path like they should (you know without starting wars) about achieving peace is that what you are saying , it's not just the Uchiha's that are the "victims" you know , what about the others that they have lost their families did they start a war on all humanity  NO , it's the choices you made after those events that truly shows what kind of a person you really are , did Hashirama wage a war on humanity or the other countries after the many loses of his brother and clan members NO , instead he makes a choice to unite all of them , So wile Madara wasn't born bad (like no one is ) he chose to be one just like the Uchiha's when they refuse Sarutobi to negotiate(cus of their stupid pride) about finding a more peaceful solution about their conflict , and right now Ushiha's are the cause of this war nobody force them to wage a war they chose to do it on their own .

 

 Oh and just to be clear i agree that killing them is not the answer unless they can't be reasoned but still there must be a consequences for their actions , one good deed doesn't erase all the bad ones that they have done.             

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 18 February 2014 - 10:32 PM.

[Sojobo]

Yes, our heroes have withstood the system. That's why they're heroes. But, the solution relies in changing it. We will get nothing out of pointing fingers at the villains, but that doesn't mean I pity them. The villains are responsible, but there's no use putting all the blame on them. Find what they have in common, the fundamental source and break it down.

 

Let's just say if the system had been right, people like Danzo would not have the power to turn people evil.

That's my point her

Anyway, blaming Uchiha is blaming Itachi, Shisui and Kagami, Uchiha who didn't turn bad because of their loss.

So why blame them all, when we're talking about only a few of them?

 

Danzou thought like that, and see what happend, he created Evil Sasuke...

So just because they are a victim like every single shinobi of the cruel ninja world i should give them a pass or sympathize with them for the things that they have done when others went for the more peaceful path like they should (you know without starting wars) about achieving peace is that what you are saying , it's not just the Uchiha's that are the "victims" you know , what about the others that they have lost their families did they start a war on all humanity  NO , it's the choices you made after those events that truly shows what kind of a person you really are , did Hashirama wage a war on humanity or the other countries after the many loses of his brother and clan members NO , instead he makes a choice to unite all of them , So wile Madara wasn't born bad (like no one is ) he chose to be one just like the Uchiha's when they refuse Sarutobi to negotiate(cus of their stupid pride) about finding a more peaceful solution about their conflict , and right now Ushiha's are the cause of this war nobody force them to wage a war they chose to do it on their own .         

Nagato, Danzou, Hanzou, Kabuto, Orochimaru, and there are more.

They all are non-Uchiha.

 

 

I don't say Madara or Obito aren't in fault, I say it is not fair to blame all Uchiha because of them when we know from reading the manga and from Tobirama's mouth, that there are good ones like Kagami, Shisui and Itachi.

They were all three heroes of Konoha, especially Itachi who sacrificed himself for the sake of the village and his love for his brother.

 

How can you say that killing Uchiha will save the world when there was one of them who saved the village?

It doesn't make sense at all, and it's not the way that Naruto thinks either...

 

Sasuke will definitly live, and change...

Edited by Sojobo, 18 February 2014 - 10:37 PM.

[Sojobo]

So just because they are a victim like every single shinobi of the cruel ninja world i should give them a pass or sympathize with them for the things that they have done when others went for the more peaceful path like they should (you know without starting wars) about achieving peace is that what you are saying , it's not just the Uchiha's that are the "victims" you know , what about the others that they have lost their families did they start a war on all humanity  NO , it's the choices you made after those events that truly shows what kind of a person you really are , did Hashirama wage a war on humanity or the other countries after the many loses of his brother and clan members NO , instead he makes a choice to unite all of them , So wile Madara wasn't born bad (like no one is ) he chose to be one just like the Uchiha's when they refuse Sarutobi to negotiate(cus of their stupid pride) about finding a more peaceful solution about their conflict , and right now Ushiha's are the cause of this war nobody force them to wage a war they chose to do it on their own .         

Nagato, Danzou, Hanzou, Kabuto, Orochimaru, and there are more.

They all are non-Uchiha.

 

 

I don't say Madara or Obito aren't in fault, I say it is not fair t blame all Uchiha when we know from reading the manga and from Tobirama's mouth, that there are good ones like Kagami, Shisui and Itachi.

They were all three heroes of Konoha, especially Itachi who sacrificed himself for the sake of the village and his love for his brother.

 

How can you say that killing Uchiha will save the world when there was one of them who saved the village?

It doesn't make sense at all, and it's not what the choice that Naruto will choose either...

 

Sasuke will definitly live, and change...

[luffyq1]

Anyway, blame Uchiha is blaming Itachi, Shisui and Kagami, Uchiha who didn't turn bad because of their loss.

So why blame them all, when we're talking about only a few of them?

 

Danzou thought like that, and see what happend, he created the Sasuke who is today...

Itachi didn't have strong ties with his clan so does the curse even apply to him? Man, this curse makes no sense :(

[Nostradamus]

Itachi didn't have strong ties with his clan so does the curse even apply to him? Man, this curse makes no sense :(

http://www.narusaku....showtopic=13531

[sushi.]

^Blaming the system is not the same as blaming every single person. Blame those who created it and took part in it. Like Tobirama, he is partially to blame for the Uchihas' rebellion. I still don't think we should limit it down to "Tobirama's fault". There are more than one person responsible, and that is those who sustained the corruption.

Itachi didn't have strong ties with his clan so does the curse even apply to him? Man, this curse makes no sense :(

Shisui was precious to him, and died for him. But I believe if he had to kill Sasuke too, the curse would've got him as well.

[FireFox]

You know what? It actually is the viz forum. You can check it out if you want.

HAHAHAHAHAHA I knew it i freaking knew it maybe i should change my username to Nostradamus 2 , anyway if i go there i'm afraid my head will probably explode from the amount of their BS  they are repetitive as hell .    

[Sojobo]

^Blaming the system is not the same as blaming every single person. Blame those who created it and took part in it. Like Tobirama, he is partially to blame for the Uchihas' rebellion. I still don't think we should limit it down to "Tobirama's fault". There are more than one person responsible, and that is those who sustained the corruption.

Shisui was precious to him, and died for him. But I believe if he had to kill Sasuke too, the curse would've got him as well.

Shisui? You forgot the most important thing: His family.

It was the first time we saw Itachi crying.

 

About Sasuke's death, I don't think the curse would have got him. Itachi is a strong person.

That curse is real, but Uchiha can fight it. Itachi fought it, like probably other Uchiha before him, Shisui and Kagami.

 

The first thing to change is that system who made guys like Danzou, Hanzou, Orochimaru, Kabuto and other bad people. Not only Madara and Obito.

It's everyone's fault.

 

Anyway, that was it for me.

Hope to see a NS moment next chapter.

Edited by Sojobo, 18 February 2014 - 10:51 PM.

[luffyq1]

Shisui? You forgot the most important thing: His family.

It was the first time we saw Itachi crying.

 

About Sasuke's death, I don't think the curse would have got him. Itachi is a strong person.

That curse is real, but Uchiha can fight it. Itachi fought it, like probably other Uchiha before him, Shisui and Kagami.

 

The first thing to change is that system who made guys like Danzou, Hanzou, Orochimaru, Kabuto and other bad people. Not only Madara and Obito.

It's everyone's fault.

 

Anyway, that was it for me.

Hope to see a NS moment next chapter.

The system isn't to blame for Orochimaru. The guy was just obsessed with obtaining power.

 

[sushi.]

The system isn't to blame for Orochimaru. The guy was just obsessed with obtaining power.

 

Yes, he is an exception. I really like that too, he's my favourite villain.

[Sojobo]

Yes, he is an exception. I really like that too, he's my favourite villain.

No, he's not. He became like this because of Konoha, they murdered his family.

Jiraiya said it to Naruto in a flashback, and that's probably why he took revenge on Konoha, and why he hated that village so much with Kabuto.

 

There is also that little talk he had with Sasuke in the forest, before ressurecting the Hokages.

Sasuke said to him that he knew it' wasn't only for fun he attacked Konoha 3 years ago, and that there was another reason.

Wich was probably taking revenge.

Edited by Sojobo, 18 February 2014 - 11:24 PM.

[shisui]

This thread is discussing Karin's... I would say exactly what it is but then I'd get a warning for character bashing again... Karin's powerup that did almost nothing to the enemy can compete with Sakura's three years of hardwork.

 

This right here...  

[sushi.]

No, he's not. He became like this because of Konoha, they murdered his family.

Jiraiya said it to Naruto in a flashback, and that's probably why he took revenge on Konoha, and why he hate that village so much.

Really? His parents died in war, as far as I remember. We don't know the details though.

I know he held a grudge against Konoha, but that was not the village's fault. Am I mistaken here?

[FireFox]

Yes, our heroes have withstood the system. That's why they're heroes. But, the solution relies in changing it. We will get nothing out of pointing fingers at the villains, but that doesn't mean I pity them. The villains are responsible, but there's no use putting all the blame on them. Find what they have in common, the fundamental source and break it down.

 

Let's just say if the system had been right, people like Danzo would not have the power to turn people evil.

That's my point here.

And i agree to this  well more or less  .

 

Nagato, Danzou, Hanzou, Kabuto, Orochimaru, and there are more.

They all are non-Uchiha.

 

 

I don't say Madara or Obito aren't in fault, I say it is not fair t blame all Uchiha when we know from reading the manga and from Tobirama's mouth, that there are good ones like Kagami, Shisui and Itachi.

They were all three heroes of Konoha, especially Itachi who sacrificed himself for the sake of the village and his love for his brother.

 

How can you say that killing Uchiha will save the world when there was one of them who saved the village?

It doesn't make sense at all, and it's not what the choice that Naruto will choose either...

 

Sasuke will definitly live, and change...

When did i say that killing them all is the right thing , read my whole post because i EDIT it i'm sorry if i give you that impression , but tell me this should Sasuke or anyone of them should  be forgiven for the things that they have done or should they bear the consequences of their actions receive some form of punishment (jail time not killing) ? And like i said the world may kitten on you many times but ultimately it's the choices that you make after that that defines you into the person you are , that's way i hate the argument that they were "made bad" you will be bad only if you chose to be no one can make that decision for you only you can do that for yourself . If the system is wrong then try to change it for the better without violence not be butthurt about it and wage war on everyone or try to kill innocent people because what the system has done to you , that's why i don't excuse them or pity them  for their actions but many others do and that's wrong imo .   

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 19 February 2014 - 12:08 AM.

[FireFox]

No, he's not. He became like this because of Konoha, they murdered his family.

Jiraiya said it to Naruto in a flashback, and that's probably why he took revenge on Konoha, and why he hate that village so much.

Really? His parents died in war, as far as I remember. We don't know the details though.

I know he held a grudge against Konoha, but that was not the village's fault. Am I mistaken here?

 Yes the same with me  as far as i remember they died for Konoha not that they were killed by it . @Sojobo if you can give us a link or post a scan for that it would be great .  

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 18 February 2014 - 11:49 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

And what about the previous wars?
Who took his brothers lifes?
 
I'm sorry, but when I read all of you, it's like Madara was born as a bad guy.
The big problem is not Uchiha, but that weird fruit to begin with. That's why there is war, hate and loss. Uchiha is just the big victim of the last past years...

I dont know what Kishi is trying to say but there will be always wars, the problem is that Uchiha becomes stronger the more hatred they get and in return they generate more hatred.
That's the problem with Uchiha, it's the fact they get insanely strong to a point that only a few people can match up against them.
Currently only Naruto can face up against Sasuke, now image if there was 3 Sasukes?
Madara alone is ridiculous.

They have jutsus like Izanagi that can alter reality itself.

"i lose my brother, it's time to destroy that village there".
 

Anyway, blaming Uchiha is blaming Itachi, Shisui and Kagami, Uchiha who didn't turn bad because of their loss.
So why blame them all, when we're talking about only a few of them?
 
Danzou thought like that, and see what happend, he created Evil Sasuke...
Nagato, Danzou, Hanzou, Kabuto, Orochimaru, and there are more.
They all are non-Uchiha.

They were minority on the village.
Remember that when the peace agreement was made every Uchiha forgive and were forgiven in return despite they lose their loved ones and the senju too, they reached an agreement.
Madara was the only one who didnt accepted that and yet he was minority and he alone put the whole world at the stake and did a lot of wrongdoings he was just like Shisui and Itachi on your case but the inverse.

You can put a whole clan of good uchihas but there will be always one or a few amount that will corrupted, you can have a whole clan of evil uchihas but there will be always one or a few that will be good.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 18 February 2014 - 11:59 PM.