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Time Flow Hurting Reader Perception


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#41 Chatte

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:54 PM

QUOTE (sushi. @ Jan 14 2013, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Chatte and tricksie, I very much agree with you! ^-^

There is not much more to say, but all this makes sense when I think of databook 3(where she was confused), and the interview when Kishi said that Naruto is close to winning her heart. Since Sakura now seems very secure about who she loves, it is most likely Naruto, and he has probably already catched her heart. It also means she is no longer confused. : D - and that we've finally reached the point to Sakura's realization! smile.gif

I can't wait for a new databook, I hope it'll come out soon. :3


Mee too! I wonder when it will appear though... When did exactly the others have appeared? What time difference was between them? Does anyone know?

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#42 PhenixElite

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:02 PM

QUOTE (Chatte @ Jan 14 2013, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mee too! I wonder when it will appear though... When did exactly the others have appeared? What time difference was between them? Does anyone know?

The 3rd came out 2008 the rest i dont know.

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#43 Chatte

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:52 PM

QUOTE (PhenixElite @ Jan 14 2013, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The 3rd came out 2008 the rest i dont know.


Oh, well... a loot of time has passed since then. almost 5 years. And the others, as I've seen in Sakura's description on the Databook, were more often, or at least, that's my impression.

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#44 kirabook

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:36 PM

So, going forward... how, many more chapters do you think the war will last? And how many more days?

Do you think Kishi will ever fix up his pacing?

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#45 Chatte

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:50 PM

Pff, it's hard. The ting is that he needs to cover that Sasuke and Oro trip... and finding the truth. He still needs to make come true all the speeches in 573, afterwards, he needs to show Naruto and Sasuke meeting in the war.
This is all the factual things I know they're going to happen. However, Kishi might pull something else, like killing Oro, making Sasuke the new Madara OR the 10 tails Jinchuuriki...
Ah, not to mention he needs to resolve Kakashi and Obito matter.

As days, we're going to get to the third one and maybe it's going to go to the fourth. :shrug:
And I believe this is the matter of at least 100 chapters, to be honest.

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#46 Dalton.T.R

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:32 AM

I can understand the statements saying, 'Kishimoto's world, Kishimoto's rules.' Authors are the only people in control of their story, and if he/she creates their own world, universe, planets, countries, languages, etc, I think they have a right to say what happens in them. But 14 days for all of what's happened? I dunno... It kind of makes me wonder how much time had passed in the original series. Did Naruto and Sasuke just become friends over night? lol. That was sarcasm by the way tongue.gif

#47 Slextrem

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:47 AM

QUOTE (Dalton (I stink at names) @ Jan 14 2013, 07:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can understand the statements saying, 'Kishimoto's world, Kishimoto's rules.' Authors are the only people in control of their story, and if he/she creates their own world, universe, planets, countries, languages, etc, I think they have a right to say what happens in them. But 14 days for all of what's happened? I dunno... It kind of makes me wonder how much time had passed in the original series. Did Naruto and Sasuke just become friends over night? lol. That was sarcasm by the way tongue.gif

I think the flow of time was better in Part One because Kishimoto had a lot less that he was focusing on. The story was always kept very simple because he would complete each segment before moving on to another. For example, when Team Seven went on their mission in Wave Country, the focus stayed on that specific mission until it was completed. Then we moved on to something else. He hasn't been doing that as much lately. He's been all over the place...

I think it's partially because of the amount of characters he has to play with now and partially because of his love for cliffhangers. He'll build up a sub-plot until it almost reaches a pique, but the he decides to reveal the rest later, so he pushes it to the side and starts working on something else. Now he's having problems trying to find the time to fit everything back in. Hence the jam-packed days occurring in the Naruto world.

#48 Jenskott

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:40 AM

I agree. Back during the Pain Invasion arc people asked nearly every people what had happened to the Cloud nin and why had not come yet.

That was because people did not realize what the Invasion most likely lasted several hours, only. It would surely take several days going from Kumogakure to Konohagakure (Team Kakashi took three days to reach Sunagakure).

QUOTE
So, going forward... how, many more chapters do you think the war will last? And how many more days?


I shall not try to guess how many chapters... but that depends on what we mean when we talk about the end of the war. If we mean the defeat of Madara and Obito, then I think it will be over in one day (Narutoverse time). If we mean the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke... That is harder to determine and depends on what Kishimoto wants to do.

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#49 kirabook

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:15 PM

QUOTE (Jenskott @ Jan 15 2013, 06:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree. Back during the Pain Invasion arc people asked nearly every people what had happened to the Cloud nin and why had not come yet.

That was because people did not realize what the Invasion most likely lasted several hours, only. It would surely take several days going from Kumogakure to Konohagakure (Team Kakashi took three days to reach Sunagakure).



I shall not try to guess how many chapters... but that depends on what we mean when we talk about the end of the war. If we mean the defeat of Madara and Obito, then I think it will be over in one day (Narutoverse time). If we mean the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke... That is harder to determine and depends on what Kishimoto wants to do.


Yes, I meant the the defeat of the Obito/Madara/Juubi trio, be it they have to retreat or they're obliterated. I doubt the alliance can back up and wait a few days to attack them again, so yeah, I also assume it'll all be in 1 day. Since it's nighttime right now I think (based on the dark sky in recent chapters) I guess it's turning to the day of a resolution.


The time flow in part 1 was much better. You can say all the groundwork was being laid back then, every arc was not so intertwined like they are now. Back then, as Slex said, every arc was independent and free flowing. There wasn't much going on, important events were happening separate of each other at different times, hardly no overlapping. If there was overlapping, Kishi did not go into much detail and the overlapped section was more like segments, I don't think they ever lasted more than 2 chapters. The best example for this I think is during the Chuunin exams when Anko was investigating the death of the grass nins and looking for Orochimaru. If Kishimoto were writing that arc today, it probably would have been 50 chapters long with lots of in-depth explanation about Oro and Anko's past. From what I remember, Kishi did a good job simply implying what happened from their conversation alone. (I can't remember any more recent arcs that went this way, where everything was simply implied by the interaction between characters or a monologue, now it's almost always a long flashback -which also kinda ruins the time flow for people reading it- with more details than anyone needs or cares about-)

I suppose another example of this would be when Sarutobi finds out about Orochimaru and his secret lab. Did that last more than a chapter? I can't remember. If Kishi were writing that now... wot.gif So... yeah, I think Kishi has done a bit too much lately. He needs to tone it down. There are so many plot holes he needs to fill now, it would have been easier if he left a lot of things vague for the community to figure out rather than trying to explain it all. Kabuto's back story could have been summarized easily. That would have given Kishi time to do something else. Most of Sasuke's useless adventures could have been compressed so much. hm.png Details are nice, but too much details really makes things too complicated and takes away time from other characters.


Another question, do you think most other pairing fans realize this time warp between reality and the Naruto world? Obviously the ones that use the "Naruto hasn't thought about Sakura in 100 chapters!" don't, but how about others? Do you think they'll embrace this fact and change their view, if only a little bit? By change their view, I mean concede on some of their arguments, like the Naruto not thinking of Sakura for a long time in OUR world, but in fact in his world he was with her and thinking of her at most a week or two ago. Given they still think Sakura was completely lying at her confession when Kishi said himself he wrote an honest girl (or something to that effect), I doubt it. (And yes, I realize some part of her confession was a lie, like not caring about Sasuke anymore, but the rest was no doubt somewhat true)

Edited by kirabook, 15 January 2013 - 03:30 PM.

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#50 Chatte

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

From my experience, they won't. I used the timeline argument before but no one cared about it, they just skipped it or denied it. Probably because if you think at things this way, it's the most suitable example for NS pairing...

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#51 kirabook

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:39 PM

It could work for an NH fan too. Instead of not having a normal on panel conversation with Naruto for the majority of all panel/chapter time in Naruto, they can say it's actually only been 5 years. laugh.gif

For SS.... not sure if it hurts or helps them. Either way, Sasuke has always been a negative force towards Naruto and Sakura. I guess you could say they've only been searching for him together for a year or so now *Naruto was 15 when part 2 started, as of meeting Minato, he was 16.*

Let's see, Gaara's arc... it took them 3 days to get to Suna right? Then Sakura saved Kankuro which took hours I think. Um... can't remember much else other than going to pursue Akatsuki and that fight between them all probably took a few hours. In all, it probably took a week or less to save him.

--- insert at least 3 days to get back home ---

Finding Sasuke arc probably took... well.. I'd definitely have to read over that. I can't remember how long they stayed home and when they left home to find him. I know it was at least a day since they stayed overnight in Yamato's wood hut.

--- insert how long it took to get home ---


I'll have to put together the rest later. Class time!

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#52 xxRomanceGirlxx

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:36 PM

Sort of off-topic, but I do remember one particularly glaring plot inconsistency a while back if you bothered to really think over it. I was re-watching the Pain arc and I saw that Sakura had a Byuakugen user with her to keep her up to date on how Naruto was doing. Convienently, this Byuakugen user showed no reaction to Naruto being pinned. He was in trouble, but the Hyuga didn't tell Sakura? I think Kishi forgot that little detail because in all of his haste to get Hinata to confess and get stabbed. I guess Hinata really was a plot device.

I'm slightly annoyed by this, but it's not because Hinata had to confess. I'm upset at Kishi because I've seen far too many NaruHina fans try and claim "Hinata cares way more about Naruto than Sakura! That's why she went to save him. Sakura didn't even care enough to try."

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#53 Jenskott

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:59 PM

Orochimaru needed at least three years to have his body-swapping tehcnique ready, did not he? Naruto and Jiraiya's trip lasted 2.5 years... And after the Kakuzu and Hidan arc Orochimaru tried to possess Sasuke's body...

Of course, it is arguable maybe Orochimaru was not ready, but I think for that point several months had passed.

You could always PM Ciardha. She had a good handle on this series' chronology.

QUOTE
Sort of off-topic, but I do remember one particularly glaring plot inconsistency a while back if you bothered to really think over it. I was re-watching the Pain arc and I saw that Sakura had a Byuakugen user with her to keep her up to date on how Naruto was doing. Convienently, this Byuakugen user showed no reaction to Naruto being pinned. He was in trouble, but the Hyuga didn't tell Sakura?


Not necessarily a plot inconsistency, I think. That Hyuuga might have thought Sakura was better off not knowing... until Naruto went Kyuubi and there was no way to hide it.

Anyhow Naruto is already thirteen-year-old and over six-hundred-chapter-long. When a series is so long, even if it is done by one single person and that person has a kind of master plan, inconsistences and plot holes will sooner or later show up.

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#54 Nick Soapdish

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:19 PM

Has the anime started on the war yet? Because that'll be even weirder. We'll get 30 hours of episodes to describe the events of less than a day.

#55 neoshadow

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:31 PM

QUOTE (Nick Soapdish @ Jan 18 2013, 07:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has the anime started on the war yet? Because that'll be even weirder. We'll get 30 hours of episodes to describe the events of less than a day.

The anime is just up to Naruto joining it. Still it's still not as bad as 20 episodes describing 5 minutes during Namek in Dragonball Z.

#56 kirabook

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:06 PM

Ah... but you know, I think the anime might make things worse too. I mean, yeah, they do cover 3 to 4 chapters in one episode *maybe*, but it's still unrealistically expanded.

Think about it, it might take you all of 2 seconds to think/notice something in your head. When something is mentioned in the middle of a fight, I doubt they're going in slow motion all of the sudden so that the opposing force gets a good look. That's only for the audience to realize what's happening.

They're ninja, they can travel across the world *apparently* in 3 days time by just running through trees. In battle, things are moving much faster than they seem. *If they were actually moving too fast, we wouldn't know what was going on* And I must point out, Minato type speed is different from actual fighting speed.

The anime makes this so much worse. Of course, they have to extend some things or else they'd end up with 30 chapters in 1 episode. I hadn't thought about it before, but maybe the anime not only exaggerates pairing moments and distorts them, but they also have to extend battle events and whatnot.

I mean, of course I knew this before (every battle had to involve 5 minutes of standing there staring at each other), but I didn't realize that maybe... other didn't realize that. And maybe it made others feel that more time was passing in their world than there actually is.

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#57 Chucky-kun

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:33 PM

You have to take into account the anime has done filler war episodes though.

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#58 kirabook

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:35 PM

Fillers are another topic entirely. Fillers are the equivalently to a 3 week break pretty much.

My brother started to rewatch the anime recently and he doesn't understand the concept of fillers after explaining it to him a few times (and he's 17 years old :/) That might just be because he's an idiot though. XD

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#59 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:41 PM

QUOTE (neoshadow @ Jan 17 2013, 02:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The anime is just up to Naruto joining it. Still it's still not as bad as 20 episodes describing 5 minutes during Namek in Dragonball Z.

Lol I remember that. I remember saying to myself, "Well that got to be the longest 5 minutes I ever witness."

#60 kirabook

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:45 PM

Something I just thought about a moment ago.

Naruto has only been back in the village for a year or so. Is it really that unreasonable for Sakura to be confused about her feelings for Naruto? In the real world, I guess people hook up sooner than that and get to know each other, but do best friends usually hook up that fast? I was under the impression it actually took longer for good friends to start dating compared to meeting someone out on the street and immediately starting a romantic relationship with them.

Blah blah, don't bring real world logic into this, but think about it, other mangas are the same. If two main characters are friends for majority of the series, that series probably only being a few years long (minus time skips), they get together later rather than sooner after a while of confusion/crushing/getting to know each other/fighting for each other if it's that type of manga/etc.

I think NS is following the natural order of things. It took part 1 (which was.... if put into perspective, couldn't have been much more than a year. It started when Naruto was 12, ended when he was 13) for Naruto and Sakura to become friends. It's taking part 2 about the same amount of time (actual Naruverse time) to head into a romantic relationship.

If we follow the grand scheme of things, romantic feelings were heightened right before the showdown between Naruto and Sasuke, maybe the same will happen this time. (But instead of giving a heartfelt confession to Sasuke, she'll be giving it to Naruto, who hopefully won't knock her out and leave her on a bench alone XD)

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