35 replies to this topic

[BakeNeko-Chan]

I'm not sure if I want to get into this debate, but I'm going to throw in my two cents. Please not this is only my personal interpretation and opinion. I'm going to quote myself on what I said on this subject sometime earlier, with some modifications to hopefully make my point clearer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's how I saw the scene: The fodder nin tells her that whoever she likes must be a great person, and then Sasuke appears in her mind, surrounded by dark flames. What this says, to me, is that Sakura is acknowledging for the first time that Sasuke is not a good person. Her expression is sad, and she just looks defeated. The purpose here in my opinion, was not to reaffirm Sakura's love for Sasuke as others have said, but to show her questioning those feelings, which she's never been shown to do before. However, I'm not saying she doesn't still have some lingering feelings for Sasuke here, I don't presume that at all.

 

We don't know who she was actually thinking about when she said, "There's someone I--". Maybe she was just looking for any reason to nicely reject this guy she doesn't know who comes up to her and says he "can't get her off his mind", lol. To say she was definitely thinking of Sasuke at that moment  is jumping the gun, because we really don't know without a shadow of a doubt and it would be the same to assume it was Naruto. All we have is speculation.

 

 

And remember, the encounter with Sasuke, where he did not hesitate to try to kill her when she got in his way, would not have happened all that long ago in manga time. It's been years for readers but only a short time for Sakura; days, weeks? It's not a lot of time to come to terms with the reality of who Sasuke has become and who she believed him to be. Her childhood image of Sasuke has been shattered, and even now with him on their side, at least temporarily, she does not trust him.

 

Anyway, I hope I'm making sense, I've not had the best day and my thought process probably isn't up to par.

[James S Cassidy]

James, I hate to pick a fight with you, but it seems you get really defensive over your opinions and are so keen on saying how others rag on your theories. Maybe it's this attitude? I noticed it in other places, too.

Really defensive? Well, it does seem that way, doesn't it? Then again how can you not be defensive when every time you have an opinion, theory, speculation, or idea...you get told you're wrong or you have no idea what you are talking about regardless if what you say is right or wrong. If you noticed it is always with the same people that this "attitude" pops up, but I am sure you have noticed that pattern by now.

Fair enough, I am defensive. I am not denying this. However, can you tell me who isn't defensive in this forum in some way? Darkrerst here is just as defensive, but he plays a different kind of defense play. He attacks your intelligence or tries to anyway. I saw it in the debate thread and he has done it just recently too. He is smart though, I will give him that. He has a way to attack you and make it seem so innocent at the same time. You think I am the only one who is upset with him or was offended by his posts?

 

Tell me how would you feel if someone replied to your posts saying everytime how you "don't understand what a word means" even though you know that maybe he was the one who missed the point entirely? Of course, Dark is the not only person I have had....run-ins with.

Here is the real kicker, my friend, and one that is rather interesting. Would you believe that at least two admins/moderators are extremely defensive, possibly even more than me? In fact, I have had one moderator spying on me the whole time checking every move I make. I know you are probably laughing at this right now thinking I am might be paranoid or crazy. That's alright. I probably would be laughing too in your position, but you see I had a certain moderator get real defensive on me some time ago before you were even on this site over the matter of the word "hypocrite." I didn't even mention anyone by name, but rather remark on a paradox of logic that this forum sometimes emits. Sure enough, this moderator just absolutely loses it and rages at me.

 

Other times I have seen other members wanting to give a honest opinion on certain matters and that certain moderator called them trolls and threatened with bans. That's their kind of defensive play. "Bans." If they don't like what you say, they can easily ban you for it. In fact, they almost threatened to shut down this site because of it. If that is not being defensive, I have no idea what is. What's even worse is when it comes to "bans" there is no obvious sign or declaration. You just get tossed. Of course, not all of the moderators or admins are like this so don't think I am calling everyone out on it. Just the ones I know who actually have done such a thing.

You see, I don't have a problem with every member on this forum and most I get along with quite well. Especially true when they know me in person and see what kind of person I really am. Hard to tell with just text on a forum.

Hell, in a way you are being defensive right now: "I don't want to start fight with you." Usually when someone says something like that or "No offense" it usually means that what they do say is going to be offensive to someone or be an insult to start a fight. Hey, I am not here to fighter either, so no worries from me. I am not going to do anything to you or of the sort. Just kind of showing a reality that maybe some might have missed. It is ironic actually.

Let's see, recently I got told by a mod that I have no right to criticize people. What's ironic and funny about this is that the same person who says this is also the same person who likes to criticize people too and probably far worse than I ever could. It is amazing how so many can be so afraid of criticism on this forum like they committed a crime and holding some guilty conscious. As for me? Well, if I was afraid of it I wouldn't be writing this post right now. I can only imagine the moderators reading this and thinking of me as some kind of smarmy of sorts or thinking that I think of myself as a higher authority to anyone here. I hate to disappoint, but it is not the case with me. Instead, I am just the guy who is not afraid to say things that a good chunk of the people on this forum always wanted to say, but are too afraid to. I am not some freedom fighter, but rather I just want other people to have a voice when everyone else tries to shut them down.

Maybe I just want some members....some good members to come back for good and not be afraid of bullies that do exists here on the forums. Do you know what it feels like on this forum when all you want to do is remain positive or have their own viewpoint of things only to have these bullies come in and make them feel that if they do not agree with them they feel like they are not true members? Of course, as many of the moderators and admins remind us everyday, you can easily just glance past such posts and ignore. Same could be said for such bullies on this site. They could easily ignore the posts they don't agree with, but they continue to fight with everyone that disagree with them. Why? I am defensive, but then again I find it better than purposely seeking people who disagree with me and trying to beat them down emotionally.
 

Take example above" I didn't reply to Dark with my first post, but Dark made it his mission to say something against me despite knowing I down right disagree with him. Oh sure, he has the privilege to give his opinion and respond to me, but he also has the ability to ignore everything I say. Why do you seek a fight? For pleasure, for purpose? Does Dark see me as a worthy opponent or likes to troll to get under my skin and see if I crack? I have no idea, but sometimes I play defense because people seek me out to argue and blow down my theories with an attitude like "Well, I am right and you are wrong." (Don't worry, Darkrerst. I know you are reading this and probably thinking of things to reply with, but it won't be necessary. I probably won't be here that long to read it anyway.)

I wouldn't have to be defensive if a person wasn't so offensive. Of course, I can debate normally as well. Me and NaruSaku4life debate all the time. Listen to the podcast if you have a chance and you can see I can debate pretty fairly and give everyone a chance to give their rightful opinions. I can do it without being defensive at all. I do crack a joke or two of course, but it is all in good fun. However, some here don't like to have that kind of fun and instead take everything as a threat to their logic.

So who really is the defensive one?

I am going to take a guess and say that I shouldn't be mentioning Darkrerst here because I am calling someone out and harassing them. If that is the case and someone brings this up, if I may, why is Darkrerst harassing me? At least, that is how I take it. He always has an argument with me even if I am not even responding to a post of his, so why does he always have to respond to my post and harass me? In the words Nate River once told me "Sounds like someone has a problem disagreeing with people."

Right about now, I am probably going to have someone from the moderator team...and I have a good feeling of who one of those two people are...and one of two things might happen: Either I get a warning and my post possibly deleted or they might ban me at this point. As I said last time, do what you have to do. I am not afraid of bans anymore and the sad part is banning me now would only prove my point I have mentioned above. Again, not being smarmy or riding my high-horse, just stating a reality I am aware of.

Truth be told, I am not defensive because I am threatened by people. I am defensive because I am tired of some things some members do on this forum. We used to have good people here all the time, but some don't even want to come back because of these reasons. When I hear these people out and how they tell me they felt hurt because of the members of this forum or because the moderators or admins are not doing anything, I feel sad for them. I feel sad because it feels like nobody listens. So I say something. Maybe I want things to change and for certain members to stop some of the things that they are doing. They don't have to agree on the same things or "follow the crowd" so to speak, but instead let people feel what they want to feel and think what they want to think.

People always think I am so shallow because I "have a hard time disagreeing with people" or some stupid thing they accuse me of. Did anyone care to ask why I am doing some of these things or why some people leave this forum? No. All they ever do is "assume" why I do what I do and say "if you can't take it, get out." What's worse is if you say it to them, they get mad saying "you have no right to say such a thing." You think whatever you want about me: Call me defensive, call me arrogant, call me whatever you feel makes you happy. I rather take that punishment than see my friends on here get harassed and wind up as upset as they do unable to do anything about it.

For members new and old....

[Inferno180]

One can simplify the question of 540 like this:

 

It was then, she wasn't happy what he became, she was conflicted with what she liked about him and what he has become.

 

It was in 635, this was in a way, continued, now she doesn't trust him, she wishes it wasnt true but its something bad. She knows he may try something.

[tricksie]

Uh, wow James.... Just, wow. 

 

I think you proved Broken Figurine true with that post. Unloading onto the thread with comments against Darkerest, me, the rest of the mods, the site itself.... And to do it in the name of "good members," whom only you have decided are good? Um...does that mean the rest of us here are bad? lol.

 

Seriously, you continue with the site-hate and mod-hate, and I have to wonder, if it's that bad, why are you still coming here? If you feel so persecuted, so victimized, if the site is so full of bullies, then why come to a site that is filled with such negativity for you?

 

The mods/admins actually work hard to keep the place tolerant and free of bashing, as well as free of trolls. Thankfully we haven't had any big shipping trauma, because when we do the troll problem it's very real. People log in/create new accounts just to cause trouble for our community. Mods/admins are not paid, we do it because we have like it here. Smiter pays for and supports this site because he likes it here.

 

It's wrong to continually trash the community which so many people enjoy and so many people work hard to make an enjoyable place.

 

The old members/new members thing is a head-scratcher. It's like you have some kind of scorecard with people who come and go here. There's not. People have lives. Their interest in Naruto comes and goes. You seem to imply that there is some kind of cut-off date here, that things were "better" at a certain time than at others. It's not so.

 

I can't be the only one: I enjoy meeting new members (people who have just recently come to the manga) as well as connecting with old members who have lives, jobs, families and don't come on as often. This site's 10+ years old. That means there's a ton of old members whom I've never even met. And if they ever come back...great! But there's no scorecard. And I'm not sure that they'd be happy knowing that you've taken up the banner on their behalf to tell everyone how bad it is here.

 

Anyway, enough of this drama. This is exactly what I asked posters not to do — hi-jacking threads with site-hate and mod-hate. The rest of the mods will discuss what action to take now. Further discussion is fine in the Mod Q&A thread. But continually flouting our requests will result in official warns.

 

That's the best I can offer. Is it so hard to be kind to others and keep the conversation focused on Naru/Saku?

[Shadow Wolf]

I'mma play the devil's advocate here for a moment. I think is not much about the freedom of speech, but more about the thin line between expressing ourselves with or without handling our words carefully. I'll probably elaborate further later when I return from work but it has to do a lot with what we call putting words into other people's mouths". It leads tl a series of arguments where some people feel bashed and it becomes difficult to handle because everyone's perception is different, thus mods may not consider a comment as bashing while a member may, and vice versa. I'll elaborate further later in. the mod q&a thread and I'll even message you with what I consider an example tricksie. Is that alright?, for now. let me stay on topic.

If there something to add here, is probably that a gesture can have more meaning than words. In this case, I think Sakura's expression of regret says a lot.

[Gojira]

This thread suddenly trailed off into something else entirely

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

@James
I just disagree with picking an interview by Kishi and use your own interpretation and pratically puts down my arguments with a simply "you're disagreeing with the author" or lecturing people.
I did two mistakes on that thread aswell but it wasnt related to the theme of the topic.
That's the only thing i dont accept, and i prefer to not debate anymore on this subject, since you dont even respond to the arguments.
I'll end it here and wont respond to any further posts on this thread.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 14 April 2014 - 07:11 PM.

[TheFirstEvil100]

So from what everyone has said it look like SasuSaku will become canon then. I mean what will make Sakura love Naruto then? 

[rocci]

@firstevil
Naruto confession.
Sakura is the decider of the love triangle.

[Nostradamus]

Ah for God's sake.

The moment in 540 is ambiguous just like all the other moments from part 2 where Sakura thinks about Sasuke or hears something about Sasuke. And that's because they're supposed to. That's the point of these moments. Kishimoto cannot just write a moment where we can say without a shadow of a doubt that Sakura loves Naruto or that Sakura loves Sasuke. Because he wants the pairing drama to keep going. For example Sakura couldn't kill Sasuke. Why is that? We're not exactly told why. And that's the point of it. So we the readers can question it.

Again I still stand with what I said that Sakura loves Naruto. And that's simple because of her actions. When I look at her actions I see a girl that's in love with Naruto, not Sasuke. But it isn't truly confirmed in the manga because Kishimoto or someone higher up than him doesn't want the drama to end.

So can we move along now and stop talking about 540? Please.

 

 

[KeikoxYusuke]

I didn't know people were still hang up on that chapter, I still remember the first time I read that bit, I thought it was a great anti-SS moment. 

 

and then I moved on. 

 

I don't really get the the confusion...It's clear that she holds some feelings for him sure, but that feeling isn't "love" ....not in a romantic sense.

 

I wouldn't be shocked if she was feeling that she doesn't even know who he is anymore. 

 

and IDK, is it wrong that I dismiss that moment as romantic? I just don't see it as anything but anti....   

 

( and there is the point that she didn't name who she was already with...It's just something that KIshi is going to get back too at some point) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ps, I always like your posts James!  And I hope that things get easier with talking with others on this site for you. I"m sure you still enjoy it here right? I would hate to see you leave.   Sometimes I feel like you get really fed up, and I wonder if your still going to be here. 

 

Hmmm.. This must seem random, I almost never talk to you...hehe...I'm just one of those "forum readers". I do far more sulking around on this site then I do at leaving comments. 

 

I need to remedy that.

[Narutofanfreak]

So from what everyone has said it look like SasuSaku will become canon then. I mean what will make Sakura love Naruto then? 

 

There are 3 minds of Narusaku fans on that. The first is she already loves him just doesn't realize it yet does apparently realize it enough to confess but not enough to be truthful or something like that, i don't get it , it confuses me too,

 

The second is she doesn't love Naruto now and will somehow love him by the end of the series even though we've spent hundreds of chapters apparently building it up in an effort to get her to realize her feelings, yet somehow she still doesn't even though the end is nigh and Naruto has done everything under the sun that would logically get her to fall for him. I don't understand this one either, its weird.

 

The third and final one is that she loves naruto but still is clinging the her feelings for sasuke, she may still have lingering traces of them inside of her and she was trying to reject them too fast to be fully over him when she confessed to Naruto, leading Naruto to his conclusion that she was lying, same with 540 where she is clinging to Sasuke's  dark image even though she knows inside that things can never be in a position where they can have a relationship like she used to want. Hence the dude saying that the guy she's supposed to like should definatley be a great person even though LOLNO. This is the one i'm personally most closest to. 

 

 

Also i think what Sakura needs to bring herself into clarity is indeed Naruto's confession. Its the one thing that doesn't yet have a conclusion, as Sakura has confessed to Sasuke and Hinata has confessed to Naruto and even Sakura has kind of confessed to Naruto, but he hasn't confessed any of his feelings to Sakura or laid his heart bare to her with his own words face to face. What she's heard and seen of his love comes from second hand sources like Sai and implied ones like Yamato.

 

 

But lol anyway, it doesn't even matter in the end cause NaruSaku is happening regardless. Sakura's 'dilemma' is so transparent its sickening and also funny from an impartial observer's perspective.

 

What Sakura's subconsciously debating right now in her heart doesn't even matter because even if she were to decide to reject Naruto in favor of her old and rotting feelings for Saucekay, she'd just be deciding to be stay in the past and be alone because Sasuke doesn't give a kitten about her feelings to begin with, at most he'd be with Karin at this point anyway.

 

Combine that with Hinata continuously being friend-zoned even when she's right in front of him (seriously Naruto, confirming Sakura to be your semi girlfriend to your father after handholding with another girl and even sharing a volume cover with her is just too cruel to Hinata over there, but maybe its supposed to be funny?)

[Namaenash]

As some have posted already, I personally interpret 540 as an anti-SS moment. When the chapter comes out, I thought to myself, if it is going to be a foundation for SS to move forward and to be canon in the end, future chapters will have Sasuke change her attitude towards Sakura (to be more gentle, more trustworthy, etc) and SS relationship will be depicted to be more positive for Sakura development.

 

Clearly, it's a setup chapter, so, we will expect it to lead to something. That 'something', I believe started with chapter 631.

 

http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/631/13

 

This is the first time Sakura meet Sasuke. Yet, she's hesitating, which is understandable. She was surprised when she saw him the first time, but then she hesitated. The chapter is then closed by Sakura looking for acknowledgement from Naruto.

 

http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/634/13

 

What comes next is the new generation's three way deadlock. We see Sakura relieved that her dream to see Team 7 working together again seems to be realized in this chapter. Her 'yes' echoes how much she longed to see her boys fighting together side-by-side again. That's why she teared up. So, she should've proud with Sasuke and erase all her doubts right?

 

http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/635/17

 

Well, not quite. Right on the next chapter, she lied that she trusted Sasuke. What happen? Sasuke did fought together with Naruto to destroy the evil right? So, Sasuke bound to be a great person right? (as per 540). Even with all that, why is she still hesitating...

 

I think her hesitation is not only pertaining to Sasuke as a love interest. But, it is something more. Should she be happy to see Sasuke fighting together with Naruto? It is not depicted that way... So, I think she's also wondering the same... Sasuke is here fighting together with her and Naruto.. why is she still in doubt. Not to mention in the past chapters, there's no single thought of her about Sasuke at all... she's always depicted to have concern about Naruto, and some more with the heart-pumping CPR scene. Could it be that her 'love' for Sasuke waver? Or could it be that she starting to realize where her heart belongs all this time? (hint: Narut0).
 

Only time will tell....

[Gojira]

Huh I always figured her not trusting Sasuke was the same reason of Sai and Jugo (because of what he said about trying to burn down all the beasts)

[James S Cassidy]

Ps, I always like your posts James!  And I hope that things get easier with talking with others on this site for you. I"m sure you still enjoy it here right? I would hate to see you leave.   Sometimes I feel like you get really fed up, and I wonder if your still going to be here. 

 

Hmmm.. This must seem random, I almost never talk to you...hehe...I'm just one of those "forum readers". I do far more sulking around on this site then I do at leaving comments. 

 

I need to remedy that.

Not random at all and I am not going anywhere anytime soon. I enjoy it here for the most part, but really all the people that tell me to "ignore their post and just agree to disagree" I believe need to start taking their own advice. You're not one of them so I am not referring to you. ^_^

I will always be here and if not, you can always find me on the podcast. ^_^ Not really going to let a little thing like this ruin the party.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 18 April 2014 - 05:26 AM.

[Shintaro]

I have to agree with BakeNeko-Chan. 

 

This scene indicates that Sakura understands that Sasuke's not a 'good guy' like the fodder ninja said. It's as simple as that.

 

No, she wasn't thinking about Naruto. I understand that some may say that she was happy at first when she told the fodder she had or liked someone else. (I don't know the exact words, so forgive me on that part.) But, I think she did that to reject him nicely. Sakura's nice like that.

 

I get how some may think it's confusing or hard to understand, although. 

Again, this is how /I/ indicate this scene. If you disagree, that's fine! I wouldn't worry much about this scene, especially since it's been shown she does not trust him. That doesn't mean, she doesn't have feelings for him, because she does. But anyway, that's another topic. Carry on.

Edited by Shintaro, 20 April 2014 - 06:02 PM.