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Posted 12 July 2009 - 03:35 AM
I think that global warming is a natural process that we sped up with pollution.
Global warming is in all aspects, normal. The Earth warms up and cools down naturally.
We really aren't doing much as the human race by polluting the crap out of the planet that birthed us, housed us and fed us. If we have anyone to blame, it's really the stuff we've been putting in the air.
We're the only species that create such a harmful footprint and cause wastes that cannot be removed naturally.
There are lots of geologists who have studied ancient marine rocks and can tell us quite a bit about anoxic events in the past. We have lots of oceanographers who can investigate what's going on at present. Quite rightly we have a reasoned discussion about whether this is being brought about by greenhouse gas induced global warming. As time goes by people who have invested the time in learning the neccessary body of knowledge and analytic skills will probably come to a rough consensus on which on it. If it gets worse rapidly and seems to be different than events in the recent past that will probably lead them to believe it is caused by global warming.
Of course we already know what our Vicodin addled friend Rush Limbaugh and all the global warming deniers will say. They're all instant experts and don't need to be bothered with the facts since they already know it's a socialist plot.
I would agree that we are going to destroy the Earth is BS. The problem is the destruction will be the PEOPLE , we will simply be killed off and the Earth will continue on for billions of years more. At the same time (speaking from the view of living in the USA) we have got to get things under control , we use far more oil and consume far more goods then area's with 5x the population. In Japan people sort there trash and recycle, travel more with city transportation or simply just walk. The life expectancy in Japan is higher then any other country, the health care works by a government controlled plan much like what was being considered for here. America was leading the world and showing others how to get stuff done , it is our time to look and take notes to see what we can do better in order to save the people here and live smarter and longer.
Also you have to understand that when technology is new it is expensive but I don't think you consider what the 40 miles is for. The average American travels about 15 miles one way to work a day , so everyday (while not free but incredibly cheap ) you basically get a FREE ride to and from work. Not only that but what is with single people getting some insane sized SUV or people that will never use a truck for what it is made to do buying them? People need to cut back and quit being so greedy.
Did you know the United States is the only major country that does not have a type of health care system for there people? If you think that a universal type system cannot work you would have to be insane. What decides the average life expectancy of people per country is simple; living conditions , culture , the number of how many people are able to obtain health care. Let's be honest America is the fattest country in the world killing off millions of people because of that. But we do have good living conditions it's not like Africa where everyone struggles just for water. The issue's we have is we simple are not active enough and there are MILLIONS unable to obtain insurance because it is to expensive.
Just like it was said by some one else everything now is simply about the mighty dollar. Honestly I don't understand why people wonder why people from other countrys look in and call us fat and greedy it is probably because it is true? I still cannot believe people are going to the hospital and paying $25 a band aid.
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I thought this was pretty interesting, and it seems relevant enough to go in this thread.
It can also result- if the eruption is signifigant enough with a temporary cooling of global temperatures- a factor most noticable after the eruption of Tambora in 1815
We've put so many chemicals in the air that has caused such a definite long term rise in spring-summer temperatures that even a Tambora type eruption couldn't have the effect the 1815 one did. It's likely it would just cause temperatures to be around what the normal should be. It might cause a colder, wetter winter like this past one though, something that global climate change can do anyway- it has to do with all the glacier melting having an effect on the global water currents.
Edited by ciardha, 23 April 2010 - 07:12 PM.
Dream you dream alone is only a dream, but dream we dream together is reality- Yoko Ono 1971
When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono
Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009
I would agree that we are going to destroy the Earth is BS. The problem is the destruction will be the PEOPLE , we will simply be killed off and the Earth will continue on for billions of years more. At the same time (speaking from the view of living in the USA) we have got to get things under control , we use far more oil and consume far more goods then area's with 5x the population. In Japan people sort there trash and recycle, travel more with city transportation or simply just walk. The life expectancy in Japan is higher then any other country, the health care works by a government controlled plan much like what was being considered for here. America was leading the world and showing others how to get stuff done , it is our time to look and take notes to see what we can do better in order to save the people here and live smarter and longer.
Also you have to understand that when technology is new it is expensive but I don't think you consider what the 40 miles is for. The average American travels about 15 miles one way to work a day , so everyday (while not free but incredibly cheap ) you basically get a FREE ride to and from work. Not only that but what is with single people getting some insane sized SUV or people that will never use a truck for what it is made to do buying them? People need to cut back and quit being so greedy.
Your really smart aren't you, do you honestly expect people to have the money to go out and buy a $40,000 electric car/or hybrid when people are losing jobs. It would take at least 30 years projected to even get the technology mass produced and distributed. You know how long it will take all the gas stations in America to have electric and hydrogen stations available? A very long time. Here's a simple solution why not continue to do them both, drill for more oil to keep the economy from being too unstabilize while the same time mass funding programs to get electric/hydrogen technology cheap and mass produced to replace oil down the road. You can't just drop one thing and move on to something else.
America is wide spread out compared to Japan meaning America is a country that can only afford to run on cheap gas. I happen to own a 4wd pickup truck and love it because I can haul/tow and carry my family with me and yes I do use it. It also offers good safety protection with a steel frame and air bags compared to a unibody cars that relies souly on air bags to keep the passenger from being killed.
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Did you know the United States is the only major country that does not have a type of health care system for there people? If you think that a universal type system cannot work you would have to be insane. What decides the average life expectancy of people per country is simple; living conditions , culture , the number of how many people are able to obtain health care. Let's be honest America is the fattest country in the world killing off millions of people because of that. But we do have good living conditions it's not like Africa where everyone struggles just for water. The issue's we have is we simple are not active enough and there are MILLIONS unable to obtain insurance because it is to expensive.
Just like it was said by some one else everything now is simply about the mighty dollar. Honestly I don't understand why people wonder why people from other countrys look in and call us fat and greedy it is probably because it is true? I still cannot believe people are going to the hospital and paying $25 a band aid.
Guess what fast food restaurants are spreading all over the world. It's not just America getting fat it's the "whole world". I saw a Godzilla burger advertised in Japan the other day with six patties on it. It comes down to one's lifestyle, if they enjoy eating a lot and it makes them happy then so be it. Poking at them with a stick isn't going to stop them.
The band aid comment you made makes no sense, the problem is too many people are going to the emergency room and getting free health care while the one's who do have insurance aren't getting the same good care while paying more.
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Oh and .......... God isnt real.
Now your really stepping on my shoes, no one has the right to say if God exist or not. Yes, I believe in my heart and soul that god, christ, and heaven does exist but if you don't believe then don't talk about it or better yet don't say anything like Shauna said.
On a side note I do find it amusing how scientist continue to live inside their dimensional boxes and come up with crazy theories for everything in existence especially the "universe".
" Now now children. I do believe your wrong in every way! Go check out my flick if you want to know how we can save the world. It involves ice cubes and Matt Groening doing rather weird cartoons. Unless you either both of them , you have no right to post here. "
No seriously.
We've had global warming since the Bronze Age. Now we care? I ain't no savior but I ain't no pig lard dumper in the Thames river.
I like to believe the guy named Gore instead of random professors I don't know. Also, last time I checked, Professors have personal opinions as well. I tend to remember back to this time in the Weimar Republic when a group stacked offices upon offices of science and research with their supporters. I think they were called the Yahtzee's or something, and they all had the same views. I dunno, I'm just gonna go Photoshop somethin'.
I'll ignore the health care, fast food and religious debates and move on to the climate change one.
Like Unknown Entity, I have worked with a professor who also believes (more like is damn certain) that climate change is happening, who was a brilliant man who knew his stuff in environmental science, and changed the way I viewed the world (these teachers are really rare, but when you find them, it’s a real treat). I should point out that the idea of Global Warming did not come out of nowhere; it was hypothesized more than a century ago, and tested and tested again. Factors creating the opposite effect (cooling) were also considered, and scientists carefully found ways to understand climates from past eras. Now, they have a pretty good idea of what’s really going on. The overwhelming consensus is that the earth is warming, and faster than before.
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I know this seems kind of lame but i want to share my open minded opinion and here yours as well. I have a real smart college professor/engineer that has studied global warming his whole entire life and says that were destroying the Earth is BS. He told me their has been facts that the earth goes through natural cycles of heating up and cooling down. He further explains that after the Earth heats up the glaciers from the artctic move south to were we live and cause a ice age and move back north after so many hundred years. There has been 7 ice ages recorded in history and as a matter of fact there was a mini ice age when George Washington crossed the Delaware (The Delaware has never been iced over before since)
I wouldn't call that an opened-minded opinion as I would simply an OPINION.
Moving on,yes, climate change is a natural process, but the concern is that man-made factors are speeding it up at a rate unseen before. And I've heard the mini-ice age argument before; first it's cooling effect was exaggerated, and I'm pretty sure it took place during VIKING times. I would also like to know your professor's credentials on the subject.
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It you ask me Al Gore and some of the other environmentalist have been making a big profit off of this, I'm not saying we're not contributing to it but i believe God made the earth to take care of itself. I do believe we need some emissions law to keep acid rain from forming and decrease the chance of people getting cancer but Russia, China, and India sure don't seem to care were actual reports of acid rain have occurred.
Al Gore, maybe, but trust me, as a whole most environmentalists are BARELY middle-class. The acid-rain problem has mostly been solved, and it was because George Bush (the first one) put regulations on emissions and CFCs. What India, Russia, and China's role in the acid rain was I'm not clear on, but most sources confirm that India and China are interested in cutting back on emissions and alternative energy. While I don't deny China is a corrupt dictatorship, from what I hear when they say they'll do something, they'll usually do.
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My whole point of this is because of the newest bill our dear president is trying to pass and if it does all the small refineries and chemical plants will shut down because of having to pay a carbon taxes that would cost over a $100 million dollars. The bill has already made it through the house and is currently in the senate please try to convince others to not support the bill and keep America from going into a depression and all of the smaller towns/cities would be mere ghosts towns/cities.
WHAT bill? Sure, Obama has proposed increased use of alternative energy, but that includes nuclear power, and he stated he was not against continued drilling (and has recently approved it off the coast of Virginia). He's said NOTHING about carbon taxes, and if anyone proposed it, it was most likely the EPA, which is simply throwing suggestions. I'd like to see where you got the $100 million dollar figure, and if millions are paying for that $100 million, it can't be that bad. And small towns are already becoming ghost towns for the simple reason that they cannot sustain themselves, and no one wants to live up in those areas anymore. Japan is having a similar problem with its rural communities.
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I agree with half truths and bull coming from some scientist/congressman.
If that’s the way you think scientists behave, you have no idea what scientists really do. A scientists’ job is not to confirm a point of view or determine policy; their job is to document facts and observations. Peer review ensures that obvious mistakes or fraud is kept out of the scientific literature (some mistakes are found after publication, but the goal is to keep poor or faux science out). This does NOT mean that if someone publishes a paper with a conclusion that most scientists do not agree with that it will be kept out; so long as the methodology is sound and the conclusion does not contradict any established facts, it can be accepted. Even on the few occasions a paper is accepted that either got everything wrong or was fraudulent, other scientists must be able to replicate the experiment. And if whether the one who published their results simply did something wrong or lied, researchers will see the numbers don’t add up, and quickly realize the truth behind the experiment.
I will now present you a bunch of videos on the subject. These are made by a man who worked as a scientific journalist, and has his two youtube channels dedicated to explaining in clear terms scientific facts, as well as clarify urban myths on science in all fields, mainly global warming and creation science
I will also give you this website which takes apart each skeptical claim against global warming. While I admit this is one-sided, like the videos I have shown above its goal is to give you the science, NOT the politics, and gives links to where they get their facts.
@Kodachi Claws, your kind of slow, look at the date it was posted. I say that because at that time Obama did want to put carbon taxes on refineries. It's been cherry picked on enough.
@Kodachi Claws, your kind of slow, look at the date it was posted. I say that because at that time Obama did want to put carbon taxes on refineries. It's been cherry picked on enough.
Show me, because I never recall him saying that. Simply show me the link where you got the info or show me a youtube video where he says that, THEN I will concede to your point.
On a side note I do find it amusing how scientist continue to live inside their dimensional boxes and come up with crazy theories for everything in existence especially the "universe".
Umm...wha...so the 'universe' is a crazy theory now?
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