882 replies to this topic

[Zatheko]

Well, yes, I did mention that as a possibility. But any NH shipper can argue against that, and, IMO, have a good case that NH holding hands will be the start of NH canon. It's a bit pointless to continue this discussion: you are not going to be convinced that NH was romantic and I just can't view Naruto's high fives to people the same as his moment with Hinata. And 616 didn't confirm anything in any direction, so, a bit pointless, don't you think?

Meh, he could have easily had naruto blush from the hand holding, but he didn't, he was able to have naruto blush form sakuras confession so why not the hand holding? To me thats all the indication I need to know naruto has no romantic feelings for hinata, but well just have to agree to disagree.

[Gravenimage]

Yes, but ask yourself this: from the writing POV, why did Kishi have Hinata be the first one to hold Naruto's hand? Why make her scene the most important one, the one that lasted the longest? Why isn't it Sakura in Hinata's place? Why wasn't it Iruka or Shikamaru or Kakashi in Hinata's place? Kishi wrote Hinata to desire to hold Naruto's hand for a purpose and he did have her hold Naruto's hand for a purpose, too. Maybe that purpose is just to complete Hinata's character arc, as you all say. Or maybe it did hint at future NH canon. We are still at the same point than we were after ch 615 came out: we still don't know how Naruto feels about Hinata or about Sakura and are back to arguing about the handholding. So maybe we should let that matter rest for now and discuss other things about this new chapter. We are not going to move forward at all in this handholding thing. Only the future chapters will tell us which one of us were right.

Let's wait and see Hinata is still a secondary character who isn't in the same level of importance as Sakura is to Naruto in my eyes. I didn't saw a NH moment but a development for Hinata nothing else. I find it invalid that you're trying to make it a big deal just because Hinata was the first that Naruto hold her hand. It's the same thing as arguing that its important that Hinata was in front of Sakura in a panel (sorry it doesn't make her more important than Sakura, last I checked she's the heroine and Kishi confirmed this). Its pretty clear that he only did it so he can transfer his chakra, for Hinata it must have meant something but for Naruto it WASN'T of romantic intent so no it wasn't a NH moment just character development. Kishi said it himself that everyone of the rookies are going to shine in this arc Hinata got her development, Shikamaru and Ino got their development in this chapter we might get Lee/Tenten development in the next chapter, the chapter after Shino and Kiba and the next we will have Sai/Sakura development. Quite frankly I doubt there will be pairing development until the end of the war.

Edited by Gravenimage, 16 January 2013 - 04:16 PM.

[dragonflyx11]

Well, yes, I did mention that as a possibility. But any NH shipper can argue against that, and, IMO, have a good case that NH holding hands will be the start of NH canon. It's a bit pointless to continue this discussion: you are not going to be convinced that NH was romantic and I just can't view Naruto's high fives to people the same as his moment with Hinata. And 616 didn't confirm anything in any direction, so, a bit pointless, don't you think?

i wouldnt be convinced cause it wasnt it's that simple. on hinatas part maybe, but last time i checked it took 2 ppl to tango, now im gonna bow out of this discussion now since i like to be a nice guy an not argue.

[Atheck]

This chapter was a tremendous lift emotionally and psychologically. Admittedly I was very nervous like all of you but it seems that the situation is stable, at least for the moment. The reaffirmation of Sakura's position as heroine to the complacent masses was a beautiful sight to behold. Of course it doesn't necessarily mean that she become as active in the manga as Naruto unfortunately. However I do believe that Kishi has something in store for her. Sakura was suspiciously missing from this chapter though we do know that Kishi is/has been acknowledging her existence with these last few chapters. This is perhaps the most significant one of them all not only because of the color page but also because of her presence and status as an important person in the mind of the focused individuals in this chapter. Something will happen with her. I am very confident of that. Would I have preferred more? Yes. But I understand that Kishi works in mysterious ways. And did anyone else notice that Sai was suspiciously missing as well?

The most critical aspect of this chapter aside, I thought it was impressive how everyone was performing against what is arguably the second most powerful entity to have ever been born. Some people may vouch for Team 10 receiving an ascendance on the various combat tier lists made across the Internet but I argue that it's not just their power being used. Their techniques are presumably being enhanced by Kurama's chakra. In other words their strength to combat the Jubi is being derived from an external source and not their power alone. Don't get me wrong though. It was impressive how good they were able to do this chapter.

Kishi finally depicts Team Guy reacting to Neji's death. It wasn't too important IMO but it's nice to see an acknowledgement of their feelings. Also to anyone who criticizes Sakura for her "love" for Sasuke please take note of this chapter. For the second time we see what I would personally call a gross exaggeration of a childhood crush born from vanity and lust. At least with Sakura's conflicted feelings she sort of has a reason for it by wanting to be acknowledged by Sasuke. Ino, on other hand, has no such argument for herself; at least not one of which we are aware of. I actually laughed when I read the words, "blunt, candid love". What exactly created or justifies this love for Ino? Furthermore, why hasn't anyone on the various other Naruto forums criticized her for this blatantly shallow and immature love? Many of them gallantly jump to decry Sakura whenever there are any panels of her and Sasuke yet I don't see the same thing for Ino.

While we may not be in the clear yet I think we're safe for now. Contextually the interaction between Naruto and Hinata last chapter with the hand holding is apparently what we, the NaruSaku fandom, assumed it to be. I have to ask now what the other fandoms are thinking about. Particularly with that comment to the side which many of them didn't even realize was an editor's note and not in the panels themselves.

[PhenixElite]

Well, yes, I did mention that as a possibility. But any NH shipper can argue against that, and, IMO, have a good case that NH holding hands will be the start of NH canon. It's a bit pointless to continue this discussion: you are not going to be convinced that NH was romantic and I just can't view Naruto's high fives to people the same as his moment with Hinata. And 616 didn't confirm anything in any direction, so, a bit pointless, don't you think?

It was no high fiving the hand holding with the other looked more romantic then with hinata.
Remember, we dont need a conformation of narutos feelings every 100 chapters.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I wonder if those people who abandoned the ship are trying to swim back to it now.

[merryGOflava]

IM SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW!!!!

i don't wanna jinx next chapter....

but the hinata development ended quickly!!! YES~

Edited by merryGOflava, 16 January 2013 - 04:18 PM.

[fireandice]

Well, yes, I did mention that as a possibility. But any NH shipper can argue against that, and, IMO, have a good case that NH holding hands will be the start of NH canon. It's a bit pointless to continue this discussion: you are not going to be convinced that NH was romantic and I just can't view Naruto's high fives to people the same as his moment with Hinata. And 616 didn't confirm anything in any direction, so, a bit pointless, don't you think?

You're right that the NH shippers can argue that, but I think the sentiment when 615 came out was that the hand holding was unambiguously ROMANTIC amongst NH shippers and some discouraged members here.

I do think, however, 616, while it perhaps may not be convincing enough to you that NH WON'T become canon, it did serve to degrade the hand holding from UNAMBIGUOUSLY romantic to an AMBIGUOUS, possibly platonic and practical act to transfer chakra. NH fans now can't say that 615 was without a doubt romantic.

Plus Naruto grasps Shika's hand even more firmly than Hinata's

Story wise, Kishi would have Hinata go first because he's enabling Hinata to come full circle in her growth- it's her turn to inspire him, instead of being scared and looking to Naruto for inspiration. So it's her turn to give her own Talk no Jutsu to shake Naruto out of his funk before the Konoha 10 start kicking ass.

[Sakura-san]

Nice to see this Chapter has got the fandom back in action....

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Remember, we dont need a conformation of narutos feelings every 100 chapters.

I do. It has been long enough for me to wonder about it. But as we are not going to convince each other, let's really just agree to disagree and find a new topic.

[Gravenimage]

It was no high fiving the hand holding with the other looked more romantic then with hinata.
Remember, we dont need a conformation of narutos feelings every 100 chapters.

THIS^ Kishi has already shown us DOZENS of times who Naruto loves.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

You're right that the NH shippers can argue that, but I think the sentiment when 615 came out was that the hand holding was unambiguously ROMANTIC amongst NH shippers and some discouraged members here.

I do think, however, 616, while it perhaps may not be convincing enough to you that NH WON'T become canon, it did serve to degrade the hand holding from UNAMBIGUOUSLY romantic to an AMBIGUOUS, possibly platonic and practical act to transfer chakra. NH fans now can't say that 615 was without a doubt romantic.

Plus Naruto grasps Shika's hand even more firmly than Hinata's

Story wise, Kishi would have Hinata go first because he's enabling Hinata to come full circle in her growth- it's her turn to inspire him, instead of being scared and looking to Naruto for inspiration. So it's her turn to give her own Talk no Jutsu to shake Naruto out of his funk before the Konoha 10 start kicking ass.

I don't know. I never thought it was definitely romantic myself, just as a possibly romantic, which is still what I think.

Bolded: that Naruto sure likes to get around.

Edit. We see more of Akamaru in this chapter than we see Sakura (on the battlefield, at least).

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 16 January 2013 - 04:23 PM.

[Zatheko]

I do. It has been long enough for me to wonder about it. But as we are not going to convince each other, let's really just agree to disagree and find a new topic.

And just as you need confirmation on something that has been true for a majority of the series, I need COMPLETE confirmation on naruto showing romantic feelings to hinata, something that unlike narutos love for sakura, has never shown any sign of being true. See where I'm coming from?

Edited by zatheko, 16 January 2013 - 04:23 PM.

[Namaenash]

The whole ch 615 was basically a big NH moment. Their handholding was only a part of the whole package, others things included Hinata encouraging and inspiring Naruto, Naruto thanking her for her support etc. Their handholding was also given emphasis, it wasn't just a brief slap of a hand against another hand. I don't know if NH handholding moment was intended as romantic or just platonic, but it is clear that it was much more important moment than just chakra transfer for the plan. Just compare Naruto taking Hinata's hand in ch 615 and Naruto taking Shikamaru's hand in this chapter. There is such a world of difference. And as this chapter finishes, it is still Hinata and Naruto next to each other. At the moment Hinata and NH have the advantage of that: they are near each other and interact. But how will Kishi use that time together? It could be that he will now take the opportunity to sink NH.

I wouldn't deny that 615 is a 'big' Hinata / NH moments. Though personally I found it to be a bit forced (with Neji's death, etc --if you compare against Pein arc, Naruto was much more mature and levelheaded when he learned Kakashi's death). But, it is the fact that happen after the whole scene and the context surrounding it. That makes a big difference, my dear. It's not only Hinata, but also Kurama, and we have Kakashi and Gai joining to give advise. The handholding emphasize was there, but look at what happen afterwards --the color page, the chakra transfer plot, Naruto's body language, etc. To me it sounds like Pein Arc again (Hinata confession is closed by Sakura hug). Of course, I could be wrong, but that pattern happens all the time in Naruto's romance department.

I agree Hinata is still next to Naruto even until the end of the page...plus Kakashi and TenTen. Whether it's very important for NH or not, we don't know. I'll give it a rest until further chapters are coming. I recall it took quite a number of chapters between Hinata confession and Sakura hug, so, I'll wait patiently and enjoy the ride...

[Slextrem]

Yes, but ask yourself this: from the writing POV, why did Kishi have Hinata be the first one to hold Naruto's hand? Why make her scene the most important one, the one that lasted the longest? Why isn't it Sakura in Hinata's place? Why wasn't it Iruka or Shikamaru or Kakashi in Hinata's place? Kishi wrote Hinata to desire to hold Naruto's hand for a purpose and he did have her hold Naruto's hand for a purpose, too. Maybe that purpose is just to complete Hinata's character arc, as you all say. Or maybe it did hint at future NH canon. We are still at the same point than we were after ch 615 came out: we still don't know how Naruto feels about Hinata or about Sakura and are back to arguing about the handholding. So maybe we should let that matter rest for now and discuss other things about this new chapter. We are not going to move forward at all in this handholding thing. Only the future chapters will tell us which one of us were right.

To give Hinata development. Since it was her cousin that died, and the chapter was released on her birthday, it seems appropriate for her to be the one to slap the sense back into Naruto. As you said, Kishimoto wrote Hinata's desire to hold Naruto's hand for a purpose, and that purpose was chapter 615, where Hinata is finally given the development that she always wanted: To fight beside Naruto, not behind him. She's done that. It was a big moment for her, and I'm sure she's more than satisfied with herself.

For Naruto, though, it wasn't as big of a deal. He holds her hand to transfer chakra. There is no other purpose behind it, as this chapter has shown. If there was more to it, Kishimoto would have had more focus on them this chapter, perhaps letting the two of them fight together or having Naruto protect her from that Jyuubi tail - but he doesn't do that. Instead, he has Naruto hold hands with many other characters to transfer his chakra, just like he did with Hinata.

That's not to say that this can't still lead to NH. They are, and always have been a possibility, but this chapter does downplay the idea that Naruto is suddenly in love with Hinata. The hand holding wasn't as special as some fans thought it was.

[fireandice]

I don't know. I never thought it was definitely romantic myself, just as a possibly romantic, which is still what I think.

Bolded: that Naruto sure likes to get around.

Yup I totally understand where you come from, because the entire moment was pretty dramatic, especially with how Hinata put her hand on Naruto's cheek and how those actions are usually between a couple and stuff. Hand holding is pretty much something you don't do with random people in Japanese culture, but I think the chakra transfer negates that aspect. Still, as you said, let's agree to disagree on this

LOL Naruto was trained by Jiraiya, so of course it's a given.

I think it would be really cool if Kishi allowed Madara and Obito to succeed and Naruto got thrown into the dream world and has to fight the temptation to believe it is reality (E.g like RTN, Minato and Kushina are alive) a la Matrix/Inception kind of style.

Edited by fireandice, 16 January 2013 - 04:27 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Naruto didn't even talk to her after last chapter. It's like there and go. Everytime they talk is for development reason. Naruto and Sakura can talk to each other like best friends. But anyway, I think this is as much we get for Hinata. Now it's everyone time to shine. If the plan does have steps, I wonder what part Sakura takes place in. Time is closing in. Feeling good. Got my game in the mail today and now I am in mood for dumplings. More and more it looks like I may start purchasing manga volumes. Just waiting for that one moment.

Btw, Kurama's comment, Obito's paralleling, and MinaKushi parallel is still up for grab. Sakura, we are waiting.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

I wouldn't deny that 615 is a 'big' Hinata / NH moments. Though personally I found it to be a bit forced (with Neji's death, etc --if you compare against Pein arc, Naruto was much more mature and levelheaded when he learned Kakashi's death). But, it is the fact that happen after the whole scene and the context surrounding it. That makes a big difference, my dear. It's not only Hinata, but also Kurama, and we have Kakashi and Gai joining to give advise. The handholding emphasize was there, but look at what happen afterwards --the color page, the chakra transfer plot, Naruto's body language, etc. To me it sounds like Pein Arc again (Hinata confession is closed by Sakura hug). Of course, I could be wrong, but that pattern happens all the time in Naruto's romance department.

I agree Hinata is still next to Naruto even until the end of the page...plus Kakashi and TenTen. Whether it's very important for NH or not, we don't know. I'll give it a rest until further chapters are coming. I recall it took quite a number of chapters between Hinata confession and Sakura hug, so, I'll wait patiently and enjoy the ride...

Thing is, the whole handholding and everybody joining in occurs after Hinata takes the first step. She originates it all: she starts encouraging Naruto and then others join in, she is the first to get the chakra and hold his hand. Like with Minato, Kushina supported him, and everybody else, too. This could be important, or it could not. If we are lucky, we will find that out sometime before the next July. Maybe we even see where Sakura is before the summer, if we are very very lucky.

[kirabook]

I do. It has been long enough for me to wonder about it. But as we are not going to convince each other, let's really just agree to disagree and find a new topic.

I already discussed here that you're thinking about time incorrectly. 100 chapters in the Naruverse can equal all of 1 hour in the Naruto world. For your sake and others, you should not assume # of chapters = amount of time in their world.

More on that topic here, I suggest you have a read.
http://www.narusaku....showtopic=12623

Edited by kirabook, 16 January 2013 - 04:33 PM.

[PhenixElite]

Naruto didn't even talk to her after last chapter. It's like there and go. Everytime they talk is for development reason. Naruto and Sakura can talk to each other like best friends. But anyway, I think this is as much we get for Hinata. Now it's everyone time to shine. If the plan does have steps, I wonder what part Sakura takes place in. Time is closing in. Feeling good. Got my game in the mail today and now I am in mood for dumplings. More and more it looks like I may start purchasing manga volumes. Just waiting for that one moment.

Btw, Kurama's comment, Obito's paralleling, and MinaKushi parallel is still up for grab. Sakura, we are waiting.

Totally agree there.
Off topic: what game did you buy, if you dont mind sharing?