Shadow1275

Yes, in the beginning I used to see him as much more like Sasuke. And even in his own team when he was a kid, Kakashi was the Sasuke figure. But he has transformed from the beginning of the manga and through the flashbacks of his team to be more like Naruto.

It's one of the reasons why he's my favorite character. Well that and lightning blade. But if you want to analyze it a little further. In Kakashi Gaiden, after Rin confesses her feelings to Kakashi, He has this line where he says, "I don't deserve you I'm scum."

It reminds of Naruto and Sai's conversation where he says that he doesn't deserve Sakura bc he couldn't fulfill his promise to her. That's why I don't really see Kakashi as an effective parallel of Sasuke bc if you really dig deeper you see they don't have that much in common.

Though I've been disappointed by the recent chapters, this one was ok. The biggest plus was that Kakashi is back. Though I would've preferred that they finished off Obito, one of the best parts about Kakashi is he fluctuates between both paths of hero and anti-hero. For example, in the beginning of the story, he had no qualms about killing Zabuza seeing him as a cold murderer. However, mid-way through the war he grew to respect Zabuza. This is the only reason why I accepted Kakashi not killing Obito in this chapter. It's also why I feel that he resembles Naruto a lot more then Sasuke. In this chapter, he went through the exact same feelings as Obito but refused to give up hope and avoided becoming like him.

Unfortunately though, Kakashi was the saving grace because the rest of the chapter was a bit of a letdown. Especially since we won't get another chapter for several weeks.

Sasuke ships NS.



While others say Naruto supports SS and it will make it cannon.

Lol.

Naruto's pro-Sakura, not Pro SasuSaku. He just wants her to be happy.

 

Playing Devil's Advocate is fun (though I don't think NH and Hinata need people playing DA, the pairing and the character are so adored)!  =)  And I agree a lot of it is due to opinion, I'm extremely anti-NH (way more than I am pro-NS) and I'm not fond of Hinata (though I'm  not anti-Hinata either) so my perspective tends to be heavily anti-NH.

 

There were positive outcomes from her futile sacrifice, as you pointed out Naruto's transformation helped weaken TP, and it also resulted in Naruto meeting his father.  But she didn't know that that would happen, so she shouldn't receive credit for these outcomes --it's illogical to credit her.  I mean one could easily argue that Hinata's actions could have caused Naruto to further annihilate Konoha, and could have resulted in Naruto deciding to commit suicide.  Hinata should thank PnJ that Minato had sealed his chakra into Naruto, because if not for that Naruto would be dead (and I'm not saying she should be blamed for that, just that that is the counterargument to giving her "credit").  Rather, we should analyze what she should have known and how she acted.  I'm not entirely convinced that her goal was to save Naruto, because if it was it illustrates an extreme level of incompetence on her part, and extreme over estimation of her abilities.  Am I supposed to believe that Hinata actually thought that she could face Tendo Pain head on and alone and win?  Because I don't want to believe that, I don't want to believe that Hinata lacks self-awareness so much that she over-estimate her abilities to that degree.  So if she knew she had no chance, then why did she do what she did?  What was her goal?  I can't say for sure, but it seems to me that her goal was to confess, was to die having confessed, was for Naruto to die knowing that someone loves him to that extent.  (And, I'm not a biased hypocrite --at least not in this case-- I have the same reaction when Sakura fans try to credit her with Gaara's resurrection.  Sakura deserves all the credit in the world for her willingness to sacrifice herself for Chiyo, and in certain discussions it's appropriate to bring up the fact that her actions lead directly to Gaara's resurrection, but since she did not know what jutsu Chiyo had up her sleeve, she doesn't deserve credit for Gaara's ressurection --only Chiyo does.  Though, it would make sense for the Sand Siblings to credit Sakura.)

 

Sakura didn't make the effort to get to know him, she got to know him through her exposure to him, but let's not forget that Naruto and Sakura have been shown to hang out outside of work AND that Sakura isn't pursuing Naruto, Sakura isn't the person interested in Naruto --it's the other way around and we have seen Naruto's attempts to get to know her better/hang out with her.  My opposition is to the notion that Hinata, and Hinata's love, has benefited Naruto in some great way when it has not.  She was a bystander (someone who was aware of the bullying Naruto went through, but did absolutely nothing to help --she didn't even ask a bodyguard to help Naruto), yet she gets credit for recognizing that Naruto was being mistreated?  I understand not blaming her for befriending Naruto, she was young after all, but I can't agree with the tendency to give her credit that she does not deserve.  That's all that I'm saying.  And, since you brought up Sakura in comparison, even during her worst Sasuke-obsessed fangirl days she illustrated that she was willing to put Naruto and Naruto's dream first --willing to protect him.  We often talk about her willingness to withdraw from the Chuunin exam because she didn't want Naruto's dream crushed, but what I feel is often ignored is that she was willing to allow Sasuke to fail in order to protect Naruto's dream --and that was in part 1, before Sasuke defected, and before she knew about the darkness within Sasuke's soul.  So while Sakura didn't make an effort to get to know Naruto better, unlike Hinata Sakura was willing to postpone her promotion as well as Sasuke's promotion for Naruto's sake.

 

I don't think Hinata needs to care about who Naruto loves.  Personally I do think that Hinata's love is spiritual in nature and not romantic (IMO she loves his nindo), but Hinata is 16, Naruto isn't in a relationship --yeah Naruto showed incredible amounts of maturity because he does care about who Sakura loves and wants to put Sakura and her happiness above his own-- but that's an exception to the rule, at all ages, I'm not sure that Hinata should be expected to do the same at this time.

You bring up a lot of good points, and trust me I don't usually play devil's advocate for NH. And I'll never do it for SS.

Does Hinata deserve credit for weakening Pain, for Naruto meeting his father, and for awakening the Ninetales.... that's a tough call. To be honest it's pretty clear that she wasn't thinking at all when she ran in, which she admitted when she said "I was being Selfish" It's an interesting line though, bc was she saying that she was doing it despite the fact that Naruto requested everyone to stay away. It's obvious that Sakura wanted to help him but she respects and trusts Naruto. Or is it bc Hinata who has feelings for Naruto, decided that she couldn't bare losing him and jumped into the fray bc she was afraid of the heartbreak. But I think it mainly states that she wasn't thinking about her abilities or Pain's power, just Naruto. As much as I wanted Sakura to be the one to jump in [and hopefully survive] It didn't happen. But going back to the credit thing, as much as I want deny Hinata credit for those mentioned things, I think that she does get credit for awakening 8 tails.

Though the problem with this speculation is we'll never know how things could have turned out. For example, let's say that Minato doesn't store his chakra to stop the seal. Konoha's doomed right? But what about Yamato and his sealing power? As powerful as the Kyubi is, he was able to seal it in its 4 tailed form and I believe, [though I'm a little shaky on the mastering the Kyubi arc] that Yamato was used as a back-up measure to hold back the Kyubi. Naruto had to release the seal in order to take on 9 tails.

Lol As for Sakura you won't find too much argument there, but are you sure that Sakura didn't know about Chiyo's jutsu?

http://www.mangapand...hapter-275.html

http://www.mangapand...hapter-278.html

http://www.mangapand...hapter-279.html

As for Gaara's Resurrection, though Chiyo was the one who performed the jutsu, the reason why she did it was bc of how Naruto and especially Sakura changed her. At first she was an old bitter woman who wanted no part of the world. She trusted no one and hated the Leaf ninja especially Tsunade. However, during the battle with Sasori Chiyo gave her life to save Sakura. Though she didn't have to bc Sakura wasn't dead, she then proceeded to give her life for Gaara, and to uphold the bright future that Sakura and Naruto had shown her. Compare her to the old witch she was before, where she specifically says "This is your problem not ours, you deal with it." And it's easy to see that she probably wouldn't have given her life or even cared about Gaara.

As for Sakura you're preaching to the choir when it comes to her and Naruto.   They have a close bond which in my opinion is much more then simply friends. In fact Naruto deciding to help get Sasuke back for Sakura despite his own feelings was one of the reasons I joined the ship. That and their part 2 interactions. Though I think that there will be a confrontation about it eventually. There's too much money involved in these shipping "wars" to let it pass.

Did obito just got defeated all that badass talk no jutsu ends up getting slashed LOL 

Seems to be what happens to every Naruto villain. Hell they even turned Orochimaru into a good guy sort of. Forget the people he's experimented on or the bodies he's stolen. He's really a ray of sunshine.

Poor Rabbit

The funny thing is that the later scene, pretty much at the end of the chapter, still reinforced his feelings for Sakura. If people wants a concrete no manipulative words (even though this one you really can't), then be careful, because you're going to get it BIG TIME. You know what's scary for many, the fact that Sakura is being focused once again. Remember how well that did with 628-631? Well, here we go again. So now, haters, doubters, whoever they are, it may be the time to start acknowledging the pairing existence as well as the high chance that it will be the endgame. Don't have to like it or anything, but the days of debate is getting close.

Best part is Sasukes been around for over 10 chapters and Sakura's focus has been completely on Naruto. Finally, after over 600 chapters of waiting she seems to be over him

Even if Sakura hasn't been done justice concerning combat, at least she seems to be getting over her greatest weakness; her misguided feelings for Sasuke.

Okay chapter with some great points. Good to see shikamaru survive, he's one of my favorite characters. Also the Sakura and Tsunade moment was priceless. If anybody thinks that Sakura is worthless feel free to take it up with this lady:

And Finally, my man Kakashi is almost back on the field! Can't wait until he comes back and joins the rest. Dude is a bada** to stitch himself up and keep fighting after skewering Obito.

The only problem I have is that for the 50th chapter in a row, we are told that everyone trusts Naruto. I understand that Naruto has earned this, however its been hammered in enough. Enough speeches already, Time for some action.

Some people have speculated that at some point we might see a scenario similar to the 2011 OVA. Some argue that this would serve as a major breakthrough for Naruto and Sakura's relationship, because the prospect of losing Naruto forever would cause Sakura to do a lot of soul searching and thus  finally realize the depth of her feelings for Naruto, i.e. romantic love.

 

I'm sorry if that all sounds extremely contrived and addlebrained. I just want to make sure that I have understood this correctly.    

 

Anyway, isn't this scenario somewhay based upon the idea that Sakura takes Naruto for granted? I know that it is a basic human fault that we never really appreciate someone until they're gone forever, but I think the whole "We've all been taking Naruto for granted" problematic" has already been resolved during the kage summit arc. 

 

It's clear to me that Sakura greatly appreaciates Naruto and that she wants to do everything she can to support him. Her speech in 630 supports that. 

 

It could also be that I'm reading way too much into this and that the core of this idea lies with the soul searching part. Sakura's thought process would be something like "Naruto's gone. But...I kinda like him...In fact, I actually love him!"

 

Yes, I know. I'm a terrible writer. 

 

I would actually like it if something like that happened. It would probably be a very dramatic moment, something that NS isn't really known for, but I also feel that it would be necessary. If either Naruto or Sakura doesn't do something to open up this can of worms, then I don't think their relationship will ever go anywhere.  

 

 

No, not even 615, because I didn't see any signs that Naruto was starting to fall in love with Hinata. If something like that ever happens, then I will begin to seriously doubt the possibility of NS becoming canon. 

 

I will probably still ship NS though. I just love Naruto and Sakura too much. 

I agree, I don't think that she takes him for granted, more that she's a lot more carefull with putting herself out there. In part 1, every single time she put herself out there for Sasuke he rejected her. Then, when she confessed her "love" for him he flat out rejected her. Then, she started to show affection towards Naruto which he reciprocated for example the feeding scene and the hug scene after pain. However, when she confessed to him he didn't believe her and rejected it as untrue or not 100% as he thought that she still had feelings for Sasuke. Sakura really hasn't been successful at winning over the guy's she likes, everytime she put herself out there she got rejected which is probably why she hasn't been as open lately with her feelings. While that and there's a war going on...

If she did that, we'd fall back to what Chiyo said back when she gave her farewell to Sakura and Naruto. Shikamaru isn't someone I would consider precious. IMO, people like Tsunade, Ino, Shizune and of course Naruto would be precious. I do feel like Ino one ups the other rookie 9.

But if she uses it on anyone, it'd likely be Naruto. I feel Karin could save Shikamaru by letting him bite her. That'd be more effective.

Agreed, my guess is that if Kishi does take that route Naruto will have Kurama taken from him and Sakura will think that he is dead cause of what Chiyo told her about jinchurriki. However, what she doesn't know is that Uzumaki's can survive having a jinchuriki taken away from them, and Naruto will still survive, maybe even a potential confession from Sakura or Naruto.

Exactly my point.

I think Tsunade won't die because she has to see Naruto become Hokage, it's her life bet and it was always mentioned that her life bets are different.

And Sakura's matureness has to do with getting over Sasuke, imo. Not Tsunade dying. And with her latest appearances in regards to Sasuke...well, this is gonna be hella good! 

I see an incoming OVA 2011 scenario

Did he really say that? Goddamn Itachi is the man, he also told Naruto about he needs to be acknowledged to become Hokage and not the other way around.

 

I just have to say as NS fans I think (well this really applies to me) want so much from NS even though Kishi has done a fine job of giving us subtle moments and keeping others pairings alive. ( i mean he does have to keep the fans)

 

I mean lets look at the bridle save. Thats a pretty momentumental scene, not just the MinaKushi parallel, (which is a huge give away), but I mean Naruto could have probably saved her in other fashion, but he choose to pick her up as if he was crossing the threshold.

 

Such and "invasive" method, but he was fine with it and so was sakura. Ppl went crazy over holding hands, man thats nothing, especially compared to carrying your girl

There's nothing wrong with wanting more NS

Though we may not get everything we want like a look at their future kids or the wedding. But I think that one thing has to happen for sure, Sakura has to be shown clearly choosing Naruto because she has feelings for him and that she no longer has feelings for Sasuke. Kishi has stated multiple times that her "feelings" for him are a weakness and for her character development emotionally to be complete, the "feelings" hav to go.

 

To be fair to Sasuke...he was pushed towards the edge in that little psychotic episode back then. The fact is, he might be pushed towards the edge yet again. With a possible Obito reformed, a Jubi defeated, Madara may need another puppet in his grand scheme, and who better than Sasuke. He might be dead, but his hate will live on in the last member of his clan.

Personally I thought his character was much better as a villain, at least he made sense when he was on a murderous rampage.

That being said, I think he's going to do one more 180 towards villain. Sasuke's character path seems to parallel Madara's

Madara started out friendly with a dark streak, then turned evil, then turned good and made peace with the senju, but turned evil again when he was denied the popular vote for the hokage spot.

Sasuke started out good but with a dark streak [wanting to kill his brother], then turned evil to kill his brother and later "purify" his clan by killing those responsible[A.K.A.] Danzo, and has turned "good" again but he also wants to be hokage. We already know that Naruto wants to be hokage, no one wants Sasuke as Hokage, and that even Itachi said that Hokages are acknowledged before they become hokage, not after.

The main point is that Sasuke's path is too similar to Madara's, I think he's headed for another fall.