Shadow Wolf

 
Can I be that guy and take the rude route? Cause I'm itching to lash out but since this is our NS forum, I'd rather not run my mouth.

Guys, sorry for playing the Devil's Advocate or for playing judge, but if possible, try to refrain from posts like these at all. If she's a troll, then her goal is to make us mad (which seems to be working), and then WE take blame from the mods. And even if that is not her intentions (always give benefit of the doubt), this could still be taken as instigating trouble. So please, just for the sake of the forum and of course, to make mods job easier, could we try to refrain from threats, please?

Anyway, another topic to talk about: Many of us have mentioned Shina having Naruto and Sakura's abilities. Would you guys like to elaborate on what exact abilities you would like to see on him?

 
Problem is that writing his fights would require a lot more cleverness and creativity from the author than slapping the bad guy with a different colored/shaped rasengan, so he needed to be swept to the side for the greater good of mediocrity.

*See attached image*

I actually liked Shino a lot. It was a different Ninja, so to speak, and his bug techniques were very clever. I'd say that he was one of the smartest of the side. Characters out there. However, again, if we go with the line of writing all the way until the Pain Arc, quite a few characters were given development here and there. After the Pain Arc things went Sasuke centered and pretty much dooming every character in the manga in terms of potential (and I don't care of you disagree Analyzer. Don't expect me to read whatever you have to say. I already agreed to disagree with you, so spare me the replies).

We can't be selective with canon. Because you use 1 as you have, you therefore -cannot- postulate that it was going to be a confession of love. Even if it -was- going to be, Naruto wouldn't have really loved Sakura, as he hasn't felt that love yet. 
 
Considering 469's words, and the consistent Sakura loving Sasuke stuff, it makes sense that no confession follows this. I also think people forget he was going to save Sasuke anyway. 

Says the person who is being selective about what type of love is pointed in the data-books and about what is supposed to be disregarded as a joke or not. Plus you proved my point with this statement anyway: the fact that Naruto's confession (and his intention to confess after keeping his promise, regardless of wanting to save Sasuke for himself or not) would have been (and it actually is) a contradiction to the movie because if he confessed (which he had the intention to, after all, he would not have lied to Sai about this because he hated people who lie to themselves), then he would have known (and actually knows) what love is.

The answer of Naruto loving Sakura or not boils down to one simple question:

If he said that he can't confess to Sakura because he can't keep his promises, then WHAT was he going to CONFESS to her anyway?

1- That he loves Hinata (impossible because The Last says that he didn't know what love was and that he confused it with ramen).

2-That he loves *insert any other character other than Sakura here*. See statement #1

3-That he loves *insert any non-living thing here, like ramen*. (Then why feeling like you can't confess to her something so trivial anyway?)

4-Confess to a bad thing (You are going to keep a promise for this?)

And finally:

5-To confess his feelings for her, namely, that he loves her. Keep in mind two things:

A-The strong value of a promise in Japanese culture. In many manga and anime this characteristic is prevalent, like in Love Hina, for example. Hence why we can't brush Naruto's Confession just as to say that he "likes" Sakura.

B-That you have to know that, if you are intent in keeping A, then B is a very serious topic for which you do not joke about and for which you must have knowledge of what you will confess about. Even in topic like confessing to a bad thing, like commiting a crime, being addicted to drugs, or in this case, a good thing, like how Naruto plans to, you take Confessions seriously. As such, Naruto was planning to confess to a serious topic. Ergo, it is easily recognizable that he was going to make a Love confession to Sakura. But of course, this would pretty much retcon the foundation of the movie The Last

So, now that this is laid on the table, doesn't it make sense that Naruto never talked about this topic again? After all, of he did, it would destroy the logic of The Last.

But of course, even if we do not have the answer to what was Naruto going to confess to anyway, we have evidence in other manga and anime that a "confession of love" holds true for both statements I mentioned above. Add that to the fact that even in real life, when we confess to someone, we take the topic seriously when we mean it and everything just fits in logically. Naruto does love Sakura.

who knows let's hope she has gave up trying to force us to like this BS of an ending that happened.
 
I don't think she will we are all not paying her any attention now and has now gave up trying to convert us to NH and SS or liking this ending, but again that may be a guess, and shall need to wait and see, as none of us and I mean none of us will agree with her or what she is trying to do either.
 
The thing is if I remember she said we need to respect Kishi cause he is a writer, no I will not respect him he kittened up Naruto and many others just to please the NH fans or Hinata fans, as I have said many hate Naruto and just wanted Hinata to be happy to get what she wanted, I have grown to really hate Hinata.

I've seen a few people who have mentioned this to me, but I don't really hate Hinata. Honestly, my hate goes towards SP and Kishi himself. After all, like I have mentioned in some of my posts: Hinata could have been so much more.

Just think for a second a Hinata that would realize that she does not need Naruto to be strong or to be complete. You would have a strong Hyuuga who could probably become a good leader of her clan without any hidden power given to her (coughcoughthelastcoughcough). Using what she learned from the 4th Shinobi War, plus what she learned from seeing Neji, she would eliminate the Branch system from the Hyuuga family and promote protection of the clan's bloodline through the pursuit of peace. And even though in a way this would be similar to Naruto's goals, this would be something that she did because she wanted to on her own will. So in the end, even though she was a satellite character, her development would be complete and would inspire people out there with self-esteem issues to strive for reaching their goals. Instead, we got this version of her thanks to SP and Kishi. Hence my hate towards Them, because technically, they also ruined her.

In fact, now that I'm in this, I want to ask: either through an open ending, or through NS being canon: how would you complete the developments of Naruto and Sakura? And if you want to, how would you complete the development of any other character that you like in the Narutoverse?

Hey guys, I hope that you are all doing well.

So, jumping straight to the point: I was wondering if any of you follow the professional videogame leagues. Feel free to talk about any videogame league, why you like from the professional scene of said game and of there are any pro players that you like to watch, a well as any other topic related to it.

Me: I follow mostly the League of Legends pro-scene, mainly the North American League, but I also watch other regions every now and then. It is actually quite obvious that the Korean league has the most skilled players and the best teams out there. SK Telecom T1 are considered the best team out there, winning 3 of the 6 World Championships as well as dominating the local region for quite a while (only recently they lost 1st place in Korea to another team, Longzhu Gaming), but they are still favorited to win the World Championship again. Their "Mid Laner" Lee "Faker" Sang-hyeok, is considered the best player of all time so far due to his mechanical prowess and his clutch skills during teamfight. However, it seems that in this year, the other regions have stepped up their game and are looking to catch up to the Koreans.

Anyway, like I mentioned earlier, I follow mostly the North American scene, mostly because it's easier for me to understand it and because of course, it is the local League. You can consider me a fan of the North American team, Team Solomid, but I don't consider myself a "fanboy". Once again they have won the North American League and are currently representing the region in the World Championship. However, North America as a region needs to "prove their worth", this year, as they are know for not performing to the standards on the international scene. We have to see how they perform this year; although it seems that they look better with the games played so far.

Finally, if there is any player I can advise to follow, it is definitely Soren "Bjergsen" Bjerg. He has been in the scene for a while and not only he is one of the best "Western" players, but he is a very consciencious player, if I can say it like that. (The regions of North America, Europe and the Latin American leagues along with the Brazilian League are considered "Western" regions while regions like Korea, China, Taiwan and others are part of the "Eastern" regions). In general, although League of Legends is not as big as DotA2 (Defense of the Ancients, another "Multiplayer Online Battle Arena" or MOBA type of game), it is actually quite fun to watch. Of course, if you plan to follow the League Scene or play the League of Legends game, be ready to deal with "fanboys" who can be quite stubborn, if I can put it that way, about their teams being the best in the world (and I have to admit there are many TSM fans who behave this way).

I have also wanted to follow the Pokemon Pro Scene and the Super Smash Bros pro scene, but I haven't really gotten to it.

Anyway, enough rambling from me. How about you guys? Which pro E-sports scene or players do you follow?

All SasuSaku fans say the same thing.

Which actually makes sense when you think about it, because if we are to describe Sakura's "violence" towards Naruto as part of the "Tsundere" trope, then it would mean that Sakura actually cares for Naruto, and SS fans do not want that.

And in the end, this is what most of the other pairing fans have to resort to in order to defend their couples. Out of all the fandoms, we really do not have to put down Hinata or Sasuke. Just by stating the facts of the manga, we can see that NS makes more sense than any of them. In fact, if NS were to be the endgame, Sasuke and Hinata would probably have a better character development, for Hinata would strive for improvement and realize that she does not need Naruto (nor anyone) to be complete, and Sasuke would actually be supportive of NS (as he gave credit to Naruto for saving them during the fight against Gaara's), and would make his redemption journey more effective, because both Juugo and Karin would probably support him (hence why they are practically non-existent in the new manga).

There's a fanfiction around the net called "Lifting the Dream" which I feel that, although it is not perfect, it actually describes most of the characters very accurately. And I believe many members here can make a better story too (I think tricksie was making a good one). So yeah... Going back to my point, even if the ending would have been left as an open ending, I would have been satisfied with character completion. But I guess I know nothing about Naruto anyway XD

I'm married for years as well, and I'm blessed with children. A great relationship starts with trust and care. These attributes are quite centric to NS. To name a few, remember the Chuunin exam, Gaara's fight, Team 7 reunion, the war arc and many others. Now look at the ending and then try to correlate with Team 7 reunion panel, where Sasuke gives no damn of shoving a chidori or poisonous knife down to Sakura.

Quite right and pretty much on the spot. And when we see MinaKushi in action, we can see that the chemistry we talk about is there. Heck, I could also make a brief case concerning Asura/Kurenai also having t, even though they do not resemble NS as Precisely as Mina/Kushi.

But anyway, trust and care are definitely two good aspects of a good relationship; and it is what makes NS set itself apart from the other shippings. For in comparison, not even with the current content we have seen the same level of trust and care between pretty much any other couple in the Naruto or Boruto manga apart from MinaKushi (and JyraTsu if things would have worked out).

And again, it goes back to my point of saying that the Confession was partially true, for they both cared for each other, even though the timing of said confession was not the appropriate one. In fact, if everything were to be a lie, I don't think they would trust each other again. At least I would not trust someone who would blatantly lie to me. And yet you can still see their care and trust throughout the rest of the manga, even with the decline in writing quality.

So in the end, yes, this Confession may not have been the best, but a few chapters dedicated to just Naruto and Sakura clearing this situation and talking about the bench scene would have cemented NS very easily.

The mindset that an NS fan must not -like- the ending. It's really false.

This will be the last time I pay attention to your replies, but I will say the following: This statement right here is what makes or breaks the difference between you and the rest of the forum. You accept things are they are thrown to you without really questioning why. Naruto's ending was not just a disappointing failure for NS fans, but also for many Naruto fans in general. Sure, talk about numbers, about Kishi's statements (which btw, at one point even Junko which is Naruto's actress told him to shut up), and about the legacy left in Boruto, but in the end, we are not grumbling, but we are presenting several reasons to be disappointed with the ending. Many people here are writers who have taken writing courses just as you, and I am sure that there are other people with careers related to storytelling. Me? I studied psychology and mental health. Does that give me more knowledge than my peers and that you? No! But it does not give me less either.

However, with other stories I have felt satisfied with the ending even though couples may have not necessarily gotten together (like the Slam Dunk manga for example). Why? Because the ending was cohesive in regards to the whole story.

We do not feel that way about Naruto because many plot lines were left unresolved. Honestly, the ending feels no different from the miracles the Uchihas pull out of nowhere.


And I could go in and on... (Pay attention, since I have not mentioned NS within my words, but the story of Naruto itself), but in the end, I have concluded that you are content with what you have been given. You will not question the inconsistencies in the story because you do not see them, and I am OK with that. We can agree to disagree. So in the end, stay content with taking everything at face value. We on the other hand, will always question the inconsistencies (Kage Bunshin before the Ninja Academy... Conflict on a world where the pursuit of peace was a recurrent theme, as stated in Tales of a Gutsy Ninja... Unhappy marriages and marriages out of nowhere... Villains left to wander without suffering consequences for their crimes...) Because they are evident and because of these inconsistencies, we are left with en empty ending and a bland follow up to what could have been one of the greatest conclusions in the history of Manga.

PS:

Side note: Sakura is not Tsundere...

Tsundere (ツンデレ, pronounced [tsɯndeɾe]) is a Japanese term for a character development process that describes a person who is initially cold and even hostile towards another person before gradually showing a warmer side over time...


...They usually play out as having an attitude toward the main character, either a male or a female, and often criticizing them in one way or another, until they eventually warm up to them or fall in love with them as the series progresses, though they usually find it very hard to admit it or outright deny it in some cases.

...Databook 3 now...




If you can't see Hinata as a Moe and Sakura as a Tsundere even though both definitions and official material prove you otherwise, then I wonder what else you have failed to grasp...

If Naruto did not love Sakura, then I wonder why he commented about being strong when you protect someone important to you...



I also wonder why he made the promise of a lifetime.... Oh wait, it was dismissed because he wanted to save Sasuke too... Oh, than I wonder why he didn't want to confess his feelings to Sakura because he has not kept this promise yet... Nope... He didn't love Sakura at all /sarcasm

By the way, nowhere in the manga Naruto said that he loved Hinata either... Heck, we needed a movie for him to say that apparently, and at the cost of him mistaking love to someone with love for food. Then he became stronger for food I guess...


Seriously, this is not difficult to grasp. He loved Sakura, for he we above and beyond to protect her and make her happy. Many people realized that he loves Sakura, and even if Shizune made the remark of Naruto saving Sasuke for himself TOO...



...Not even Shizune denied Naruto's feelings either. So if anyone wants to go against the argument of Naruto not loving Sakura throughout the course of the whole manga (excluding pretty much chapters 699,700, which by the way never state that Naruto gave up on her anyway. At best if could imply that he sacrificed himself because of Sakura's obsession with Sasuke, as seen in chapter 699), then hey, it means that almost EVERY character (Shino, Kiba, Sai, Shizune, Yamato, Kakashi, Ino, Chouji, TenTen, Rock Lee, Shikamaru, and even Hinata herself, who was outside the tent when all of this was happening) was wrong. And I restate this again: No one, absolutely no one, mentioned throughout the whole manga that Naruto did not love Sakura. On the contrary, pretty much every character in the manga knows this.

The proof she would need is them having sex with each other, but then again she will say even that does not count.
 
just looked at SS for proof Sakura is in a loveless marrage something Hinata fans get off on, as I sadly saw one post saying "kitten got what was coming for always hitting Naruto happy she is all alone."
 
Yeah this is why NH should not have become canon and Hinata should have died, hence why I kill her in my stories now.

What I recall from NaruHina:

-She offered him to cheat...
-An ointment of sorts that I can't remember it doing anything
-Making him go into 8-tails mode (keeping in mind that Naruto didn't want to use Kyuubi to hurt others after the events of him hurting Sakura)
-Naruto saying something about not being wanted to be rescued twice (wait... When did she save you again?)
-Her saying that SHE wanted to be with Naruto (while Sakura wanted to help HIM)
-Commenting on Naruto's big hand.. (I won't even justify that)
-Tripping on a rock and...
-Falling into a Genjutsu which showed LIES

And now I hear of this Ramen record...

See, here's the thing: if NS was canon, we would not need a movie nor these forced facts (like the ramen record), to justify why they are together.

I didn't need a movie in Full Metal Panic!, nor in Love Hina, nor in pretty much any other anime I have seen to know why a certain couple ended up together. Hence why these event in Naruto feel so forced. In fact, why would I need to try and diminish other fandoms (fans who ship other couples) when my "ship" is canon.

In the end, all of these events post-698 plus all the reactions from both fans and the author himself will make me stand by NS.

 
Yeah, which is the great thing about it for sure; she knew Naruto had been working hard since they became a team, and she just wanted to protect his dream, something no one else would do, just like when she performed CPR on him after Kurama was extracted from him and he was dying.

It's funny how, even though the war arc was written badly, we could still see very clearly how Sakura was thinking about Naruto most of the time. She was worried about him using a lot of chakra, she was healing him when talking with Minato and when went as far as to keep his heart beating, all while thinking only of him and what he aspired for.

Now that I'm a married man, I actually appreciate NS more than before, even though it may not be canon in the author's story. Why? Because in the end that type of friendship is the foundation of a long-lasting relationship.

The confession was real and Sakura actually had feelings for Naruto she just didn't understand them. The only lying Sakura did was about Sasuke to free him from the promise of a lifetime. When Naruto said she was lying he has talking about what she said about sasuke.
Naruto called her a liar about her feelings in my opinion.

That's what I also see on this Confession. Although I can't excuse the poor quality of writing, there are a few points which make this Confession partly true and partly false:

1-Naruto was blushing at first, so at least he also believes this part of the Confession (where Sakura says that she loved him) to be true.

2-Naruto starts to frown when Sakura says that she doesn't feel anything about Sasuke anymore.

3-If the whole confession was a lie, all that Naruto had to say was that he hated when people lied "to him". Instead, he said that he hated people who "lied to themselves". Ergo, he did not consider the whole confession to be a lie.

4-If everything were to be a lie, then there would be no need for Sakura to get angry.

5-And finally, the smile she gave after the battle between Naruto and Sasuke (when he takes a nap just beside Kiba, Lee, Sai and Shikamaru). That genuine smile which was also seen during the aftermath of the Gaara's Arc (where Sasuke tells Sakura that Naruto gave his all for her) is a smile reserved only for Naruto. No need for rocket science to deduce that her smile conveys genuine feelings.

lol well I wish I could have gone to their wedding, why I would bring a gun and then when it got to Hinata I would walk up put a bullet in her skull, while screaming out "WALKER!"

It's kinda funny, but I don't hate Hinata. I just hate most of her fans. Kinda like some LeBron James fans, Justin Bieber fans or even some TSM fans if I can compare it to other fanbase. The players, artist, League of Legend teams, or even fictional characters are not bad. But the fanbase making them invincible or giving them a God-like status is what makes me hate the Fans.

Honestly, I would just fix the story and give Hinata a proper development which would make her tunnel vision of Naruto change into a desire to become a better "Ninja" and clan leader for herself. After all, even she got ruined by the movie The Last.

I only want to add one more thing: this smile (bottom left)



...has been for no one but Naruto. And that smile has never been used for comedic purposes, not in part 1 (After the Battle with Gaara) and neither on part Two. That smile tells me that Sakura did love Naruto, and no one will change my pov on that.