756 replies to this topic

[DrK]

Naruto sees a shooting star when he's resting after his Kage Bunshin training.





 
I'm not going to make this an actual analysis, because there's nothing to it really but why did Kishimoto do this if he intended NHSS? What is the significance of showing Naruto react to an emotion of Sakura when he's far away like this? Imagine if it had been Sasuke who saw the shooting star. What a total idiot I would look like and what a genius Kishimoto would have been. But he used Naruto. It actually would have been easy to just have both of them see it, then it's just a Team 7 thing. But he used only Naruto.
 
Why?

Edited by DrK, 01 December 2017 - 09:51 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Naruto sees a shooting star when he's resting after his Kage Bunshin training.





 
I'm not going to make this an actual analysis, because there's nothing to it really but why did Kishimoto do this if he intended NHSS? What is the significance of showing Naruto react to an emotion of Sakura when he's far away like this? Imagine if it had been Sasuke who saw the shooting star. What a total idiot I would look like and what a genius Kishimoto would have been. But he used Naruto. It actually would have been easy to just have both of them see it, then it's just a Team 7 thing. But he used only Naruto.
 
Why?

 

It just shows the truth of how Kishimoto had different plans, but because of everyone else telling him what to do instead of his putting his foot down, we got a hot mess in the end. And also, with Sakura, besides how Team 7 was, how do we know here the tear wasn't for Naruto because of her feeling like she let him down when it came to running into Sasuke again?

[DrK]

It just shows the truth of how Kishimoto had different plans, but because of everyone else telling him what to do instead of his putting his foot down, we got a hot mess in the end. And also, with Sakura, besides how Team 7 was, how do we know here the tear wasn't for Naruto because of her feeling like she let him down when it came to running into Sasuke again?

We'll never know what it was supposed to mean. But like I always say, considering the ending, it meant nothing.

It brings to mind something else. A lot of the time during this era of the manga, you got the sense that a lot of what Naruto did was for Sakura. Then in the Kage Summit arc it is revealed that he's not really doing it for Sakura, he's doing it for himself mostly. This was a terrible moment for Naruto as a character.

Edited by DrK, 01 December 2017 - 10:04 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Naruto sees a shooting star when he's resting after his Kage Bunshin training.





 
I'm not going to make this an actual analysis, because there's nothing to it really but why did Kishimoto do this if he intended NHSS? What is the significance of showing Naruto react to an emotion of Sakura when he's far away like this? Imagine if it had been Sasuke who saw the shooting star. What a total idiot I would look like and what a genius Kishimoto would have been. But he used Naruto. It actually would have been easy to just have both of them see it, then it's just a Team 7 thing. But he used only Naruto.
 
Why?

And it also helps that we see the ENTIRE photo of Team Seven rather than some focused close-up of Sasuke.

[Yyubie]

And it also helps that we see the ENTIRE photo of Team Seven rather than some focused close-up of Sasuke.

In the anime version it's also close up slowly only to Sasuke before Sakura tears.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

As far as I'm concerned thats a NS moment, since it cuts directly from Sakura to Naruto noticing something that was previously connected to her--and this is at the time where NS was still where the series was heading. You could Argue that its supposed to be a Team 7 moment...but it doesn't bring Kakashi or even Actual Sasuke into it, it only focus on a Sasuke form the past--bringing pain, as usual to Sakura. 

[Phantom_999]

I am always reminded of a great quote by Johnny Depp that I think NaruSaku should live by.

"If you love two people at the same time, choose the second. Because if you really loved the first one, you wouldn't have fallen for the second."

 

 

Well that applies only to Sakura strictly speaking, since Naruto technically never had a second love, and I don't buy all the retconned feelings in "The Last" anyway. However the only thing to note from me regarding that love triangle is that Sakura does not "love two guys", she (by behaviour that is) loves one and is holding a shallow torch for the second. Her "feelings for Sasuke", as far as I am concerned never came across as love at all, because she does not emotionally connect to him, partially because he does not open up, but again she never shows her real self to him and is just a squealing fan girl that just blindly praises how awesome and cool he is. She doesn't have any real conversations with him about her feelings or the what not. She DOES WITH Naruto, and yet by the story narrative after Yahagi left, she still couldn't even tell that what she had with Naruto is love and is pining after Sasuke regardless (and that is where the  $#&! fest starts). Anyway all that aside, I guess my point is Sakura should not have chosen the second love because she wouldn't have fallen for the second if she truly loved the first. She SHOULD choose the second love because he genuinely makes her happy, relaxed, safe and emotionally stable. Plus she loves Naruto for who he is, therefore she would never change Naruto or fantasize/wish for him to be someone he is not. The same goes for Naruto too.   

Edited by Phantom_999, 02 December 2017 - 07:05 PM.

[DrK]

 

Well that applies only to Sakura strictly speaking, since Naruto technically never had a second love, and I don't buy all the retconned feelings in "The Last" anyway. However the only thing to note from me regarding that love triangle is that Sakura does not "love two guys", she (by behaviour that is) loves one and is holding a shallow torch for the second. Her "feelings for Sasuke", as afar as I am concerned never came across as love at all, because she does not emotionally connect to him, partially because he does not open up, but again she never shows her real self to him and is just a squealing fan girl that just blindly praises how awesome and cool he is.

The funny thing is that the only reason she stopped being that person is because of Naruto. Her success as medic and kunoichi is because of how she wanted to help Naruto. And she became a strong person because of Naruto. But when Sasuke returned, she abandoned all of her development to go back to being that person. Whatever she felt for Sasuke it makes no sense that she would make that decision. People like to hold on to achievements that they have made. And it's not like she didn't have time to think about this. The choice was clear. She chose to be a tool of someone who doesn't appreciate her. It really makes you wonder about Kishimoto, how he could have thought that was anything close to acceptable.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

"I'm going to stop being behind them, and be their equal." -Becomes a non-entity.- Good going Sakura. This series should be called "Everyone does the opposite of what they say." 

"I Like Sakura!" -Never really liked her.-
"I hate Sakura." -marries her.-
"I'm going to stop chasing you." -Keeps pining over him until she gets him- 

[James S Cassidy]

 

Well that applies only to Sakura strictly speaking, since Naruto technically never had a second love, and I don't buy all the retconned feelings in "The Last" anyway. However the only thing to note from me regarding that love triangle is that Sakura does not "love two guys", she (by behaviour that is) loves one and is holding a shallow torch for the second. Her "feelings for Sasuke", as afar as I am concerned never came across as love at all, because she does not emotionally connect to him, partially because he does not open up, but again she never shows her real self to him and is just a squealing fan girl that just blindly praises how awesome and cool he is. She doesn't have any real conversations with him about her feelings or the what not. She DOES WITH Naruto, and yet by the story narrative after Yahagi left, she still couldn't even tell that what she had with Naruto is love and is pining after Sasuke regardless (and that is where the  $#&! fest starts). Anyway all that aside, I guess my point is Sakura should not have chosen the second love because she wouldn't have fallen for the second if she truly loved the first. She SHOULD choose the second love because he genuinely makes her happy, relaxed, safe and emotionally stable. Plus she loves Naruto for who he is, therefore she would never change Naruto or fantasize/wish for him to be someone he is not. The same goes for Naruto too.   

Absolutly. Naruto never fell in love with Hinata though during the course of him being in love with Sakura. Naruto the Last pratically shoots this one down. There was never a "Sakura-Naruto-Hinata" love triangle so this quote can never apply to him since the only reason why he fell in love with her was because 1. Sakura was taken and 2. He had to be "convinced" to love Hinata.

It will forever burn in my brain that Sakura told Naruto to ask Hinata to walk her home and Naruto looked so confused. "Why?" Yeah, why should Naruto walk Hinata home? Why should he fall in love with her? Why should he ever be in a relationship with her when he can't even notice her without someone else pointing her out?

And come on, Toneri comes down and so happens to choose Hinata as his bride to be? The villain just so happens to be in love with the girl that is supposed to be the new love interest? That has "forced" written all over it. It is so obviously forced I can't seem to bear it. Especially when we get no background on Toneri at all. Why is he in love with HInata at all? Why is he pining for her? Was he watching and stalking her up on the moon? kitten. Absolute kitten.

Honestly, this reminds me of some of the "white knight" comments about the "friendzone" and how it doesn't exist because guys shouldn't be nice to girls because they think it will earn them something. Well, this applies to girls as well. Just because you are nice to a boy does not mean he owes you his life and his hand in marriage. Hinata should have been friendzoned by Naruto because he genuinly didn't see Hinata as anything more than a peer.

Of course this applies to Sasuke as well. Why go with Sakura when he clearly has something closer with Karin? Why was Karin just thrown under the bus like that with little to no recourse? Why spend so much time and have Karin there if her purpose was supposed to be a place holder? What was Karin's purpose if not to be a love interest for Sasuke? I guess she was just a space warmer for Sakura. "Hold my seat, kitten." is basically what the fanbase thinks.

We all have our debates about Sasuke and Karin, but I think we can at least all agree that Sasuke has more time, more development, and a closer bond with Karin than he ever did Sakura. Plus, Karin seemed to understand Sasuke more than Sakura did. Did Karin know everything? No, but she was alot closer to the goal than Sakura was.

If Sasuke truly wanted to be with Sakura, then he should never have hooked up with Karin.
 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 02 December 2017 - 03:53 AM.

[DrK]

If Sasuke truly wanted to be with Sakura, then he should never have hooked up with Karin.
 

Yes, the big deal I made about Sakura -> Naruto applies to Sasuke -> Karin as well. It's just that Sasuke didn't make it as obvious as Sakura did that he liked Karin, because well, he's Sasuke. But he clearly cared for her since he figured out how to use Kagutsuchi to protect her from the flames. This is not a development that you as a writer can just throw away.

[James S Cassidy]

Yes, the big deal I made about Sakura -> Naruto applies to Sasuke -> Karin as well. It's just that Sasuke didn't make it as obvious as Sakura did that he liked Karin, because well, he's Sasuke. But he clearly cared for her since he figured out how to use Kagutsuchi to protect her from the flames. This is not a development that you as a writer can just throw away.

Of course not, because Sasuke is an introvert. He wouldn't just openly express everything right off the bat like say Naruto would, but when the time comes for him to act he was more prone to saving Karin then he was Sakura. He actively saved her when he fought Bee, but then when it come to Sakura he either left her to die or tried to kill her himself. He never actively tried to kill Karin. She was just "in the way."

Some say that Sasuke always loved Sakura, but was too afraid to tell her and show it. I disagree immensly. It wasn't Sakura he was in love with...it was Karin and it was her he had a hard time expressing it. Like I said, looking at how easy it was to take a stab at Sakura or leave her to die. Karin on the other hand, he only did it once because he was twisted...I guess at the time.

I am always surprised that people were willing to forgive everything he did to Sakura multiple times, but the one time he did something to Karin and it is "unforgivable." Really?

Tries to kill Sakura multiple times: "Oh, he is just being shy. He is afraid of his true emotions."
Tries to Karin once: "Pssh, look how much of a murderer he is. Karin doesn't deserve that scumbag."

Me: "Girl, really? Are you serious?"

[DrK]

I am always surprised that people were willing to forgive everything he did to Sakura multiple times, but the one time he did something to Karin and it is "unforgivable." Really?

Tries to kill Sakura multiple times: "Oh, he is just being shy. He is afraid of his true emotions."
Tries to Karin once: "Pssh, look how much of a murderer he is. Karin doesn't deserve that scumbag."

Me: "Girl, really? Are you serious?"

It's because Sakura had Naruto to protect her. Karin was alone and entirely helpless. Of course, the presence of Naruto makes SS so much more absurd, but shippers don't think like that.

[Phantom_999]

Absolutly. Naruto never fell in love with Hinata though during the course of him being in love with Sakura. Naruto the Last pratically shoots this one down. There was never a "Sakura-Naruto-Hinata" love triangle so this quote can never apply to him since the only reason why he fell in love with her was because 1. Sakura was taken and 2. He had to be "convinced" to love Hinata."

It will forever burn in my brain that Sakura told Naruto to ask Hinata  to walk her home and Naruto looked so confused. "Why?" Yeah, why should Naruto walk Hinata home? Why should he fall in love with her? Why should he ever be in a relationship with her when he can't even notice her without someone else pointing her out?

And come on, Toneri comes down and so happens to choose Hinata as his bride to be? The villains just so happens to be in love with the girl that is supposed to be the new love interest? That has "forced" written all over it. It is so obviously forced I can't seem to bear it. Especially when we get no background on Toneri at all. Why is he in love with HInata at all? Why is he pining for her? Was he watching and stalking her up on the moon? kitten. Absolute kitten.

Honestly, this reminds me of some of the "white knight" comments about the "friendzone" and how it doesn't exist because guys shouldn't be nice to girls because they think it will earnt hem something. Well, this applies to girls as well. Just because you are nice to a boy does not mean he owes you his life and his hand in marriage. Hinata should have been friendzoned by Hinata because he genuinly didn't see Hinata as anything more than a peer.

Of course this applies to Sasuke as well. Why go with Sakura when he clearly has something closer with Karin? Why was Karin just thrown under the bus like that with little to no recourse? Why spend so much time and have Karin there is her purpose was supposed to be a place holder? What was Karin's purpose if not to be a love interest for Sasuke? I guess she was just a space warmer for Sakura. "Hold my seat, kitten." is basically what the fanbase thinks.

We all have our debates about Sasuke and Karin, but I think we can at least all agree that Sasuke has more time, more development, and a closer bond with Karin than he ever did Sakura. Plus, Karin seemed to understand Sasuke more than Sakura did. Did Karin know everything? No, but she was alot closer to the goal than Sakura was.

If Sasuke truly wanted to be with Sakura, then he should never have hooked up with Karin.
 

 

Exactly. Loving someone for years is NOT an entitlement card. Love doesn't work that way. If it did Why couldn't Boneri I mean Toneri be "entitled" to Hinata then since he stated he loved her before Naruto did? Oh RIGHT I FORGOT, Only women loving men means something and the men must  love back the woman who loved them first. "FML" for any man in the Narutoverse, am I right?   

Edited by Phantom_999, 03 December 2017 - 03:27 AM.

[DrK]

 

Exactly. Loving someone for years is NOT an entitlement card. Love doesn't work that way. If it did Why couldn't Boneri I mean Toneri be "entitled to Hinata then since he stated he loved her before Naruto did? Oh RIGHT I FORGOT, Only women loving men means something and the men must  love back the woman who loved them first. "FML" for any man in the Narutoverse, am I right?   

I said this before, but if NS happened, then ToneHina could just happen and then the guy would have been happy. Instead he's just miserable on the moon forever. One of the progenitors of the ninja world is slowly going crazy all because Sakura couldn't grow up.

[James S Cassidy]

It's because Sakura had Naruto to protect her. Karin was alone and entirely helpless. Of course, the presence of Naruto makes SS so much more absurd, but shippers don't think like that.

What a Sugar Honey Iced Tea-y excuse. -sigh- I really have never seen such a vile fandom as Naruto's and I hope I never have to see it again. The blatent and obvious biasedness, the tunnel visions, and the downright disregard of everything they don't want to see is the worst nightmare of all anime fandoms.

I really hope this all phases out. It is not just in anime either, but in ever show. Like Arrow with Olicity and SuperWon. I wish these writers would pick with a pairing choice and stick with it; supporting it and not just leave their readers guessing every chapter. It has become an extremely cheap way to keep people watching the show and a disgusting way to showcase love and relationships.

At the end of the day what are they tellings us? Don't expect happy endings because eventually you will break up?

Gone are the days of "Happily ever after."

[DrK]

A certain individual keeps demanding to know how I can like one portrayal of Sakura, but not like another portrayal of Sakura since they're the same person and Kishimoto always portrayed her the same way.

 

I like this character:

 

 

I don't like this character:

 

Edited by DrK, 02 December 2017 - 04:02 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

 

Exactly. Loving someone for years is NOT an entitlement card. Love doesn't work that way. If it did Why couldn't Boneri I mean Toneri be "entitled to Hinata then since he stated he loved her before Naruto did? Oh RIGHT I FORGOT, Only women loving men means something and the men must  love back the woman who loved them first. "FML" for any man in the Narutoverse, am I right?   

 

By the way, it is funny how they believe Hinata is entitled to Naruto because she loved him since the beginning, but Naruto is not "entitled" to Sakura even though he loved her since the beginning.

Still, noone is entitled to anything in the love category because people are not trophies to be won. It is not a race to see who nabs the best lover, yet many pro-enders still think it is a competition. NH and SS could be miserable, but that doesn't matter because "they won."

 

A certain individual keeps demanding to know how I can like one portrayal of Sakura, but not like another portrayal of Sakura since they're the same person and Kishimoto always portrayed her the same way.

Is this the same person who talks about us saying we should never expect "over glorified" NS stuff, but then demands SasuSaku and NaruHina to have "over glorified" scenes?

By the way, I am not sure if "ham-fisted" is the right term here because it means without dexterity and grace....and that has SS and NH written all over it.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 02 December 2017 - 04:08 AM.

[DrK]

Is this the same person who talks about us saying we should never expect "over glorified" NS stuff, but then demands SasuSaku and NaruHina to have "over glorified" scenes?

By the way, I am not sure if "ham-fisted" is the right term here because it means without dexterity and grace....and that has SS and NH written all over it.

The whole hamfisted thing was so idiotic because all I said is I wanted Naruto to understand something and smile and walk away. How is that ham-fisted? That could be incredibly subtle and beautiful. Just like in Part 1 hospital scene. Foolish pretension.

Edited by DrK, 02 December 2017 - 04:08 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

The whole hamfisted thing was so idiotic because all I said is I wanted Naruto to understand something and smile and walk away. How is that ham-fisted? That could be incredibly subtle and beautiful. Just like in Part 1 hospital scene. Foolish pretension.

They couldn't even let us have that. No, they decided to retcon that NS never existed in the first place. It is not enough to win, but want to trip us as well after the race is over.