756 replies to this topic

[Yyubie]

Hey, she tried to stop. She did. There is no real equivocation when it comes to this. If, in the snow, Naruto had accepted her, she would never have gone back to Sasuke. Because that would have hurt Naruto, which is something canon had clearly established she was not willing to do under any circumstances. Something she would even die to stop from happening. Naruto simply didn't accommodate her wishes. She wouldn't have been with him if Naruto, or anyone else for that matter, had given a damn about trying to stop it. But they didn't. They only cared about Sasuke.

I'm way pass the part when Sakura begging like a pathetic whore asking for the man to take responsibilities and i'm not talking about the desperate confessions. My point is why they make Sasuke says all those things about hes not interested and shes daydreaming bla bla bla when she still conscious , why not say all of that to her face directly so she can hear it ? why knock her out cold then say all of that it's pointless if she can't hear it. The point is Sasuke not interested and want Sakura to stop chasing her so he should listen to what hes about to say. I think that is the rule of talking / negotiating , you talk first , you reason first and if they didn't listen then you resort to action because at that point talking is useless. Sasuke should tell her all of that and when she still not listen you can chidori her. My point is they trying so hard to keep everything hidden and secret .... it's near the end everything should be solved , tying every lose ends.

 

The fake confession , the fodder nin confess to sakura and image of sasuke comes lead into that ... i'm already accept the fact that ... okay maybe i'm reading the manga wrong maybe that is the sign of impending doom. But stop with the lies if they gonna make NH and SS cannon do it legit way , not keep everything secret , let Sakura knows , don't make Naruto fall in love with Hinata with genjutsu , why can't they do it the legit ways? they have to make NH and SS happen with lies ... that's sick!!

[DrK]

I'm way pass the part when Sakura begging like a pathetic whore asking for the man to take responsibilities and i'm not talking about the desperate confessions. My point is why they make Sasuke says all those things about hes not interested and shes daydreaming bla bla bla when she still conscious , why not say all of that to her face directly so she can hear it ? why knock her out cold then say all of that it's pointless if she can't hear it. The point is Sasuke not interested and want Sakura to stop chasing her so he should listen to what hes about to say. I think that is the rule of talking / negotiating , you talk first , you reason first and if they didn't listen then you resort to action because at that point talking is useless. Sasuke should tell her all of that and when she still not listen you can chidori her. My point is they trying so hard to keep everything hidden and secret .... it's near the end everything should be solved , tying every lose ends.

That didn't have any tactical value. Like how he was going to let her die in the lava pit, she wasn't that strong so he saw no value in her staying alive. Making her understand that he's not interested in a relationship doesn't help him with his goals. He thought he would never see her again. He was going to kill Naruto and then become that Pain like figure. That's all. Who knows why he even bothered to answer Kakashi. Probably because Naruto was the one who objected to it. No other reason.

 

If you mean story wise, it would have been less dramatic that way. It was more of a punch to the gut the way that he did it. Again, no other reason. He doesn't care how logical Sakura's actions look. She was supposed to realize Sasuke wasn't the person she thought he was and fall in love with Naruto. But they told him to do some other crap that makes no sense. So he did that.

[tricksie]

Yeah, that whole chapter pissed me off. Stabbing her and then saying that. Made no fucking sense to me that Sasuke married her in the end. 

We have no evidence that he did marry her. She lives in his house and has his name, but she might have just decided to do that and he let her because he didn't care. 

 

There's nothing that points to them marrying, and his behavior towards Sakura and his up-until-now-unkown-child (uh, love child anyone?) says to me that Sasuke slept with Sakura 12 years ago and hasn't thought about her since. So...not married in my book.

 

edit: oh yeah, and I reeeeeeallly hate that manga page. Kakashi is the only one who shows a shred of decency. Sasuke and Naruto are back to part one behavior of just blowing Sakura off (Sasuke) and only caring about Sakura as it concerns Sasuke (Naruto and Kakashi).

 

Before I'd finished the manga, after reading that page it was already going to be really hard to redeem the story for me. But I was still holding out hope. The Hinata hand-holding/Neji's deaht/Naruto-love-fest garbage and this exchange tho.... I remember thinking that this didn't bode well for the ending....

[jak123]

We have no evidence that he did marry her. She lives in his house and has his name, but she might have just decided to do that and he let her because he didn't care. 

 

There's nothing that points to them marrying, and his behavior towards Sakura and his up-until-now-unkown-child (uh, love child anyone?) says to me that Sasuke slept with Sakura 12 years ago and hasn't thought about her since. So...not married in my book.

 

edit: oh yeah, and I reeeeeeallly hate that manga page. Kakashi is the only one who shows a shred of decency. Sasuke and Naruto are back to part one behavior of just blowing Sakura off (Sasuke) and only caring about Sakura as it concerns Sasuke (Naruto and Kakashi).

 

Before I'd finished the manga, after reading that page it was already going to be really hard to redeem the story for me. But I was still holding out hope. The Hinata hand-holding/Neji's deaht/Naruto-love-fest garbage and this exchange tho.... I remember thinking that this didn't bode well for the ending....

True, but the fact that she has any sort of relationship with Sasuke shows a huge step backwards in her character.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

We have no evidence that he did marry her. She lives in his house and has his name, but she might have just decided to do that and he let her because he didn't care. 

 

There's nothing that points to them marrying, and his behavior towards Sakura and his up-until-now-unkown-child (uh, love child anyone?) says to me that Sasuke slept with Sakura 12 years ago and hasn't thought about her since. So...not married in my book.

 

edit: oh yeah, and I reeeeeeallly hate that manga page. Kakashi is the only one who shows a shred of decency. Sasuke and Naruto are back to part one behavior of just blowing Sakura off (Sasuke) and only caring about Sakura as it concerns Sasuke (Naruto and Kakashi).

 

Before I'd finished the manga, after reading that page it was already going to be really hard to redeem the story for me. But I was still holding out hope. The Hinata hand-holding/Neji's deaht/Naruto-love-fest garbage and this exchange tho.... I remember thinking that this didn't bode well for the ending....

 

Not to mention what always irked me is the fact Kakashi wanted to try to FORCE Sasuke to love Sakura, and yet at the same time, he's a hypocrite since he said he didn't deserve Rin's love since he was willing to abandon her, yet Sasuke did WAY worse mentally to Sakura than Kakashi did to Rin! XP

[Nostradamus]

 

Not to mention what always irked me is the fact Kakashi wanted to try to FORCE Sasuke to love Sakura, and yet at the same time, he's a hypocrite since he said he didn't deserve Rin's love since he was willing to abandon her, yet Sasuke did WAY worse mentally to Sakura than Kakashi did to Rin! XP

That was the dumbest things I have ever seen. You have to love her because I say so.

Kakashi is the worst teacher in history of storytelling. And that's before he even said that.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

That was the dumbest things I have ever seen. You have to love her because I say so.

Kakashi is the worst teacher in history of storytelling. And that's before he even said that.

 

Yeah, he really, truly failed Team 7, like when he put them into the Chunin Exams thinking they were ready when he was just trying to get into a contest of one-upping Kurenai and Asuma, yet he barely taught Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura JACK, as well as basically lying to Sakura to make things easier by saying things would go back to normal, as well as his constantly looking down at Naruto even when Naruto did some impressive stuff, like doing the Naruto Uzumaki Barrage after watching Sasuke do the Lion's Barrage once, but making it his own with his use of Shadow Clones rather than the Sharingan (and even the fact Kakashi PRAISED Sasuke for doing the Lion's Barrage!), and his favoritism to Sasuke even before Jiraiya asked Kakashi that he be allowed to focus on Naruto's training.

[Gravenimage]

I'm starting to hate Kakashi now in the same level as Hinata. I don't know if it's right or wrong.

[VanitasDS76491]

That was the dumbest things I have ever seen. You have to love her because I say so.
Kakashi is the worst teacher in history of storytelling. And that's before he even said that.

 
Agreed Kakashi sucks hard as a teacher, it's sad when again power rangers have better teachers like tommy, zordon, andros, cruger, and the best or second best one rj.
 

Yeah, he really, truly failed Team 7, like when he put them into the Chunin Exams thinking they were ready when he was just trying to get into a contest of one-upping Kurenai and Asuma, yet he barely taught Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura JACK, as well as basically lying to Sakura to make things easier by saying things would go back to normal, as well as his constantly looking down at Naruto even when Naruto did some impressive stuff, like doing the Naruto Uzumaki Barrage after watching Sasuke do the Lion's Barrage once, but making it his own with his use of Shadow Clones rather than the Sharingan (and even the fact Kakashi PRAISED Sasuke for doing the Lion's Barrage!), and his favoritism to Sasuke even before Jiraiya asked Kakashi that he be allowed to focus on Naruto's training.

Ya team 7 was the worse team next to kunreai team, guys team was the best cause he never played favorite even with Lee he treated each student the same. And the fact that naruto was Minato son Kakashi teacher is even worse that he ignored him. Most of the problems in naruto are all Kakashi fault and somehow this mother kitten is the best character in the series and made 6th hokage I'm sorry but no.
Ya he taught sakura only tree walking, naruto only two things and give sasuke everything like everyone in naruto. So Bascially kitten Kakashi hard.

[DrK]

Kakashi is seriously the worst character. I've talked about this before so I'll be brief. He simply doesn't deserve any of the acclaim he receives, either from characters in the story, or from real-world Naruto fans. He was a worthless sensei, only somewhat above average as a Jonin, and an absolutely terrible person.

 

Copy ninja sucks. That's all.

Edited by DrK, 10 February 2018 - 10:00 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

I'm starting to hate Kakashi now in the same level as Hinata. I don't know if it's right or wrong.

No that's fine since mostly everything in the series is his fault especially with sasuke. Oh sure talking to the mentality unstable emo is the best way to make him stay instead of pulling rank on him and arresting him like he should have if he was becoming a threat.

[VanitasDS76491]

Kakashi is seriously the worst character. I've talked about this before so I'll be brief. He simply doesn't deserve any of the acclaim he receives, either from characters in the story, or from real-world Naruto fans. He was a worthless sensei, only somewhat above average as a Jonin, and an absolutely terrible person.
 
Copy ninja sucks. That's all.

Man of thousand Justus and we only saw 1 of them.

[Nostradamus]

 

Yeah, he really, truly failed Team 7, like when he put them into the Chunin Exams thinking they were ready when he was just trying to get into a contest of one-upping Kurenai and Asuma, yet he barely taught Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura JACK, as well as basically lying to Sakura to make things easier by saying things would go back to normal, as well as his constantly looking down at Naruto even when Naruto did some impressive stuff, like doing the Naruto Uzumaki Barrage after watching Sasuke do the Lion's Barrage once, but making it his own with his use of Shadow Clones rather than the Sharingan (and even the fact Kakashi PRAISED Sasuke for doing the Lion's Barrage!), and his favoritism to Sasuke even before Jiraiya asked Kakashi that he be allowed to focus on Naruto's training.

His favoritism and stupidity pissed me off. He started to piss me off since he criticized Jiraiya for teaching Naruto the Rasengan a technique that Jiraiya taught him in order to defend himself from Akatsuki, but he had no problem teaching Sasuke the guy who demonstrated that he's a moron and not stable in the head, the Chidori a technique meant for assassinations.

He only started to show some positivity towards Naruto when Sasuke left and when Naruto was confirmed to be the 4th's son. Such an ass kisser. 

[DrK]

His favoritism and stupidity pissed me off. He started to piss me off since he criticized Jiraiya for teaching Naruto the Rasengan a technique that Jiraiya taught him in order to defend himself from Akatsuki, but he had no problem teaching Sasuke the guy who demonstrated that he's a moron and not stable in the head, the Chidori a technique meant for assassinations.

He only started to show some positivity towards Naruto when Sasuke left and when Naruto was confirmed to be the 4th's son. Such an ass kisser. 

How could he possibly not have known that he was the 4th's son? Minato spent all his time in the company of a woman named Uzumaki Kushina. This woman, Kushina, becomes pregnant by Minato. Then they die and this boy who looks a mini Minato now exists. A boy with the surname Uzumaki. Why did Kakashi treat him that way? Did he resent Kushina? Was he bitter at Minato for being another father figure who left him? Who knows, but either way it wasn't Naruto's fault, and he's a piece of kitten.

Edited by DrK, 10 February 2018 - 10:14 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

His favoritism and stupidity pissed me off. He started to piss me off since he criticized Jiraiya for teaching Naruto the Rasengan a technique that Jiraiya taught him in order to defend himself from Akatsuki, but he had no problem teaching Sasuke the guy who demonstrated that he's a moron and not stable in the head, the Chidori a technique meant for assassinations.
He only started to show some positivity towards Naruto when Sasuke left and when Naruto was confirmed to be the 4th's son. Such an ass kisser.

 
And he criticized guy for teaching Lee the eight inner gates. No wonder obito turned evil.
 

How could he possibly not have known that he was the 4th's son? Minato spent all his time in the company of a woman named Uzumaki Kushina. This woman, Kushina, becomes pregnant by Minato. Then they die and this boy who looks a mini Minato now exists. A boy with the surname Uzumaki. Why did Kakashi treat him that way? Did he resent Kushina? Was he bitter at Minato for being another father figure who left him? Who knows, but either way it wasn't Naruto's fault, and he's a piece of kitten.

I'll buy the excuse he was that stupid but he rin that Minato kid was going to be born leading obito to kill Minato and kushina, so really Kakashi killed Minato. Seriously the connection between naruto and Minato was so obvious to see you'd have to be a moron not to know that back in part 1.

[DrK]

 
And he criticized guy for teaching Lee the eight inner gates. No wonder obito turned evil.
  I'll buy the excuse he was that stupid but he rin that Minato kid was going to be born leading obito to kill Minato and kushina, so really Kakashi killed Minato. Seriously the connection between naruto and Minato was so obvious to see you'd have to be a moron not to know that back in part 1.

I mean, Kakashi is very responsible for the state of Naruto the character and series being ruined. If he hadn't coddled Sasuke, teaching him powerful techniques, Naruto doesn't become obsessed with him, Naruto probably beats him up at VOTE1, which Sakura would be very touched by his success, Sasuke would continue to be a kitten to her except now Naruto is clearly superior to him and he's now fulfilled his promise to bring back a Sasuke who is probably in jail, she probably stops being obsessed with Sasuke as well. Basically everything is good, Sasuke stops being important, Naruto can still do everything, and the characters don't become twisted and pathetic. Kakashi is more to blame than probably any single other character other than Sasuke and Naruto themselves.

Edited by DrK, 10 February 2018 - 11:52 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

We have no evidence that he did marry her. She lives in his house and has his name, but she might have just decided to do that and he let her because he didn't care. 

 

There's nothing that points to them marrying, and his behavior towards Sakura and his up-until-now-unkown-child (uh, love child anyone?) says to me that Sasuke slept with Sakura 12 years ago and hasn't thought about her since. So...not married in my book.

 

edit: oh yeah, and I reeeeeeallly hate that manga page. Kakashi is the only one who shows a shred of decency. Sasuke and Naruto are back to part one behavior of just blowing Sakura off (Sasuke) and only caring about Sakura as it concerns Sasuke (Naruto and Kakashi).

 

Before I'd finished the manga, after reading that page it was already going to be really hard to redeem the story for me. But I was still holding out hope. The Hinata hand-holding/Neji's deaht/Naruto-love-fest garbage and this exchange tho.... I remember thinking that this didn't bode well for the ending....

I was actually worried as far back as the end of the Pein Arc with Hinatata's confession. Not for confessing in general, but HOW it was done - making it out to be some hugely momentous occasion that required EVERYTHING TO BE STOPPED in order to completely focus on it. I mean, we had Naruto pinned, we had a tense situation where we wondered if Pein was going to succeed in capturing Naruto or if Naruto was going to turn things around somehow, then *SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH!!!!!!* Heeeeeeeeeeeeeere, she comes to "save the daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy-NOT!!!!

 

Kakashi is seriously the worst character. I've talked about this before so I'll be brief. He simply doesn't deserve any of the acclaim he receives, either from characters in the story, or from real-world Naruto fans. He was a worthless sensei, only somewhat above average as a Jonin, and an absolutely terrible person.

 

Copy ninja sucks. That's all.

His favoritism and stupidity pissed me off. He started to piss me off since he criticized Jiraiya for teaching Naruto the Rasengan a technique that Jiraiya taught him in order to defend himself from Akatsuki, but he had no problem teaching Sasuke the guy who demonstrated that he's a moron and not stable in the head, the Chidori a technique meant for assassinations.

He only started to show some positivity towards Naruto when Sasuke left and when Naruto was confirmed to be the 4th's son. Such an ass kisser. 

Yep, Kakashi (and Itachi, Jiraiya and such) show that just because you're a skilled shinobi, it doesn't mean you'll make a good teacher. Both Kakashi and Itachi's attempts to "teach" Sasuke only resulted in him becoming WORSE than before while Jiraiya only made one single attempt to instill a sense of reality in Naruto, only to give up when Naruto rejected it and, if anything, indulged Naruto's naive and even foolish idealism.

Now that I think about it, the way things are now could have been foreshadowed quite a bit too - the fact that nobody can truly let go of the past and it because they can't, it only ends up making things worse for each new generation.

And actually, Kakashi seemed to all but admit to Naruto that he DID know that he was Minato's son the whole time; before the Edo Kages showed up, Kakashi proudly said to Naruto something along the lines of including, "..as the son of the Fourth...". This would mean that Kakashi cared more about his own self-pity and need to "redeem" himself for failing Obito than looking after his "beloved sensei's" own flesh and blood, possibly even being among those who blamed Naruto for Minato's death.

 

[Phantom_999]

Well guys, not that I disagree with anything said about Kakshi's teaching methods, but let's be honest here, the real issue was that there was little to no thought put into Naruto and Sakura's powers compared to Sasuke, and that is solely because Sasuke is the creator's pet and by extension all Uchiha.

 

I mean if we really are going to blame Kakashi for not teaching Naruto or Sakura anything, doesn't that extend to Jiraiya and Tsunade too? Jiraya knew Naruto would be targeted by Akatsuki and therefore taught him Rasengan, but why didn't he teach Naruto anything else. wouldn't it have made more sense to teach Naruto other abilities to keep him more versatile for any threat because teaching Naruto only rasengan and some rudimentary form of control (if you can call it that) over Kurama's chakra essentially makes him a limited one trick pony that can't deal with other situations. A bigger Rasengan is STILL a Rasengan, and therefore has all the faults and limitations of Rasengan and now Naruto wastes more chakra performing it. Plus isn't teaching Naruto to use tail beast chakra more counter productive than a benefit, since Akatsuki is after him for that very reason, so wouldn't that just make it easer for them to gain access to it? Point is, Naruto was no better prepared to deal with Akatsuki when Jiraiya trained him. Deidara  for instance, exploited the fact that Naruto was a close range fighter with no projectile attacks to speak of. Also why was it not Jiraiya  that teaches Naruto elemental manipulation? If Minato told Kakashi about his intent to fuse a chakra element into Rasengan, I'm pretty sure he told Jiraiya too, because there was no flashback indicating he only shared this knowledge with Kakashi. 

 

As for Tsunade and Sakura, well they ARE medics so they do actually need to save chakra to heal but here is the thing. Tsunade should know that a medic should be as susceptible as anyone else to being attacked, and probably even more so if someone decided to target the medic first. And let's be real, teaching a medic to dodge is a limited skill and can only deal with attacks a medic can see or react to, which is beyond their ability if it is an instantaneous or impossibly quick ninjutsu, or even bombs. So why doesn't she create a medical fighting style that can  handles heavy ninjutsu users and use as little chakra as possible to protect her life since a medic must survive to ensure the team survives? And Why couldn't she teach this to Sakura?

 

My argument utimately is, if we are going to blame a teacher for Naruto' and Sakura's lack of growth compared to sasuke, It is not the fault of just a single teacher. The real reason that they seem so limited in skill and abilities is be beacuse Kishimoto was to busy jacking off to and character shilling the Uchiha to bother with Naruto and Sakura. Plain and simple

Edited by Phantom_999, 16 August 2018 - 08:44 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

The very lack of real progress with Naruto during his "training trip" with Jiraiya is why I sometimes go as far as to say ALL of part two should be redone from the ground up, not just post-Pein Arc. I mean, the only real excuse to have Naruto come back virtually unchanged outside of slight variants of what we've already seen (and learning the attempt to use more of Kurama's chakra ultimately failed overall) was solely to make Sasuke look OP after the same amount of time and give an excuse to have Naruto learn something else...and yet only Sasuke seemed to drive it, not the threat of Akatsuki (which was the MAIN POINT of the training trip to begin with) or anything. After the attempt to have Naruto use more of Kurama's chakra failed, Jiraiya should have immediately set out to have Naruto widen his arsenal (and Kage Bunshin could help master them faster; something else Jiraiya seemed to stupidly forget about) while also redoubling his own attempts to knock some reality into Naruto's head. The incident at the bridge was a clear show of how Naruto was still that same naive, immature child that left Konoha since all it took was for Orochimaru to mock him and talk about Sasuke and Naruto just lost it and could have easily resulted in him killing Sakura and Yamato.

And teaching Naruto solely how to use more of Kurama's chakra is counterproductive not only because of it being Akatsuki's goal, but also because of the fact their team pairs were based specifically on directly countering the power of the Biju or Jinchuriki they would be targeting.

In Naruto's case, you had...

- Itachi - aside from his own natural, prodigious skills that make Naruto look like nothing (and he still could have gone a lot further if not for that BS sickness and such), he would be able to suppress Kurama's chakra with the Sharingan (as Sasuke demonstrated easily enough with his own) while the Mangekyo Sharingan would also be able to do serious damage with Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, with Susano'o being a hidden trump card.

- Kisame - he had, by Neji's account, chakra reserves as big as Naruto's (and that was only from the Shape Shift clone that only had, at best, around 30% of the original's power), water skills said to be nearly on par with Tobirama Senju (who was seen as THE strongest water user in shinobi history aside from Hagaromo, of course), and possessed Samehada, which, aside from being able to easily handle Naruto in close-range combat, could devour Kurama's chakra and strip Naruto of all his extra juice and add it to his own as he demonstrated by being able to easily take down Bee single-handed, even when Bee was using seven tails worth of Gyuki's chakra.

...either one of them could have easily owned Naruto, but together? Yeah...

In terms of sensei-blaming though, it largely falls on Kakashi because he is a much more constant presence in the story, and with the consequences of his mistakes ultimately playing bigger roles. I know some like to point out Nagato as a huge mistake when it comes to Jiraiya, but as far as we can tell, he didn't seem to really do anything wrong in terms of teaching him, Yahiko, and Konan. What happened with Nagato wasn't really Jiraiya's fault, but rather Hanzo's and Danzo's actions that made Nagato into Pein.

[DrK]

Yes, Jiraiya also sucks. But Kakashi is just so abysmal that it makes Jiraiya look absolutely amazing. I'm almost 100% sure I have said this exact thing before. But it's really true. There's just nothing to like about anything that Kakashi did. Everything he did, he either could have done it much better or he could have made everything so much easier for everyone by doing NOTHING.