756 replies to this topic

[DrK]

The fact that none of them , none of them told Sakura , "Hey are you serious , do you really want to married a guy like that?" , not even kakashi or yamato , not even tsunade , they are all kittened up people. I don't give a damn about my student especially that they already have that experience , you know tsunade with orochimaru and jiraya , kakashi with rin and obito , none of them try to give her some valuable advice .... this makes the entire manga in a bad dark light to me .... isnt BONDS what Kishi try to reminds people ?

Tsunade encourages it in the Sakura light novel, even saying that if Sakura had big breasts like Tsunade, she would have no problem seducing Sasuke. The amount that they kittented on these characters is unprecedented.

[James S Cassidy]

No worries I'll keep it short XD.

 

I perfectly understand what you mean I can't understand those arguments either, what's the point those things are trivial what matters is the quality whether it delivers or not, people sometimes have the standard bar to much raised that's impossible to satisfy them no matter what  its ridiculous. 

 

You're joking people are betching about the Ghost in the Shell bc of that seriously?!! FUKING HELL!!! I loved the movie WTF the quality and the story were top notch I really enjoyed it, those complaints aren't even necessary they're borderline stupid they are only damaging the rating bc of stupid shallow reasons, and I was even wondering why the rating was so low but I would have never ever guessed its bc of this jfc!!!  . 

I wish I was joking:
https://www.theguard...n-asian-problem

This is just one of many articles you can find in google. It's funny, but when asked by the Japanese audience whether they thought the movie was great they loved her. They thought casting her as the Major was perfect because of how well she was in the Avengers movie.
https://www.hollywoo...st-shell-992255

So it's funny how that the only people that think this is "whitewashing" or "Racist" are not the people it is "supposedly racist to," but to people who that are going on about Cultural Appropriation. Japanese fans have no problem with white people, or black people, or any other culture wanting to indulge in their culture. In fact, they love the passion that some Americans have for Japanese culture. It is not racist to them, so why are some people say it is? It's like

SJWs: "That's racist. Tell them you are offended."
Japanese people: "Umm, we actually kind of like it. She looks amazing, she is an amazing actor, and I love the way the movie was."
SJWs: "Shut up, you don't know what you are talking about. It is insulting to your kind."
Japanese people: "Not really?"

This is why I am fearful of this "Live Action Naruto" movie they are supposedly making. I mean, what are they gonna do then? It has bad news written all over it. I wish we could get over this era and move forward as humanity instead of this "cultural appropriation period." We should be celebrating culture, not trying  to silence it. It feels like America is taking a step back rather than moving forward. Oh well.
.
Sorry, I went off on a tangent again. This is last time I will post something like this, but I just love anime and I love the dubs. It's great seeing real talented VAs here in english speaking countries put their all into having fun. Sometimes I don't like some of them, but that is a choice I make. They shouldn't stop making dubs because of one bad one that may come out.

I thank you for hearing me out and glad we share a similar passion in that respect.

To put this back on topic I wanted to point something out as well.

In the Sakura Confession, Naruto says that it is no longer about the promise he made to her and such, but didn't Naruto tell Sai that the only reason why he can;t tell how he feels about Sakura was because he couldn't keep his promise? Chapter 457.

Here:

picture

And here:

picture 2

So, what....is it about the promises or wasn't it? How can it be about the promises, but then not be about the promises either? Naruto, you really confuse me, I think you just made up bullcrap. What was that about people lying to themselves? 

And still this whole scene, not just the confession, but this whole thing is made pointless because "Naruto only loved Sakura out of a rivalry game." Well, that means Naruto's entire motives throughout the whole manga were pointless. Why did he fight Gaara then? Why did he make a promise to Sakura? Why did do anything at all? "Because Saskeeeeehhh."

So apparently, everything he did for Sakura was nothing, but because of this nothing is the whole reason why he ignored HInata in the first place. So does that mean that literally "nothing" is better than Hinata? That having nothing is better than having Hinata? That is what this is telling me. Does that mean Naruto sees being with Hinata as a punishment for not keeping his promises to his parents, to Sakura, or even to Sasuke? I guess so. Hinata is not a prize, but a punishment because Naruto is a weaksauce hero and he deserves a weaksauce bride.

Great story.....NOT!
 

 

Do you think Naruto, considering what happens in 693 would not have confessed to Sakura, then? Since she reaffirmed that she loves Sasuke before he tortured her into unconsciousness? Because I still think he would have. Like he loved her in spite of her loving Sasuke, right?

 

Honestly, even if Naruto didn't say anything about it, Sakura would have. Because Sakura obviously knew about why he made that promise from Sai.

 

The scene in the Last doesn't do anything for anyone. Naruto no longer loves Sakura there, he loves Hinata, and the promise isn't mentioned. Nor does Naruto say ANYTHING of significance about how he felt for Sakura, other than letting her claim that it was fake stand. God, it's pathetic.

I don't know. To me, during the confession of Sakura, I think he would have actually question Sakura instead of immediatly jumping to conclusions and saying "You're lying to yourself." I more imagined him saying "Do you really mean that? Sakura, I have loved you for a really long time and I really wanted to be with you because I saw you an amazing girl, but do you really just think that Sasuke is meaningless to you? You told me you loved him. Do you still love him and want to save him or is it something else? It's hard for me right now because there is so much and I am just an emotional rollar coaster of feelings for you, about Sasuke, and everything going on."

But, during the confession, he goes from surprised to be just utter angry because she says "I don't care about Sasuke anymore." He just immediatly goes to anger like "HOW DARE YOU JUST NOT GIVE A kitten ABOUT SASUKEEHHH!!!!" He wasn't angry about her thinking it was all about the promise, but rather because she said she stopped giving a kitten about Sasuke.

To me, Naruto really did take it the wrong way and the least he could have done was talk to her about it. Like before he gets angry.
 

 

Tsunade encourages it in the Sakura light novel, even saying that if Sakura had big breasts like Tsunade, she would have no problem seducing Sasuke. The amount that they kittented on these characters is unprecedented.

 

Hard to take that one seriously since Kishimoto didn't write those ones and the fandom doesn't seem to take them seriously either. Not even the proenders.

 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 24 December 2017 - 08:05 PM.

[FireFox]

Tsunade encourages it in the Sakura light novel, even saying that if Sakura had big breasts like Tsunade, she would have no problem seducing Sasuke. The amount that they kittented on these characters is unprecedented.

Like it totally makes sense that Sasuke would be interested, the same Sasuke who has been apathetic toward women who has barely touched her or even kissed her and its even questionable how they even got The Salad (I'm still hanging on the theory that she's made from a tube) it all makes perfect sense  .

 

The same Tsunade who understood Naruto's pained expression in the hospital when Sakura hugged Sasuke , the same Tsunade who had men in her life like Dan and Jiraiya  that Tsunade?! Yeah FUK OFF is all I have to say I'm glad I didn't even read that novel.    

[Phantom_999]

I wish I was joking:
https://www.theguard...n-asian-problem

This is just one of many articles you can find in google. It's funny, but when asked by the Japanese audience whether they thought the movie was great they loved her. They thought casting her as the Major was perfect because of how well she was in the Avengers movie.
https://www.hollywoo...st-shell-992255

So it's funny how that the only people that think this is "whitewashing" or "Racist" are not the people it is "supposedly racist to," but to people who that are going on about Cultural Appropriation. Japanese fans have no problem with white people, or black people, or any other culture wanting to indulge in their culture. In fact, they love the passion that some Americans have for Japanese culture. It is not racist to them, so why are some people say it is? It's like

SJWs: "That's racist. Tell them you are offended."
Japanese people: "Umm, we actually kind of like it. She looks amazing, she is an amazing actor, and I love the way the movie was."
SJWs: "Shut up, you don't know what you are talking about. It is insulting to your kind."
Japanese people: "Not really?"

This is why I am fearful of this "Live Action Naruto" movie they are supposedly making. I mean, what are they gonna do then? It has bad news written all over it. I wish we could get over this era and move forward as humanity instead of this "cultural appropriation period." We should be celebrating culture, not trying  to silence it. It feels like America is taking a step back rather than moving forward. Oh well.
.
Sorry, I went off on a tangent again. This is last time I will post something like this, but I just love anime and I love the dubs. It's great seeing real talented VAs here in english speaking countries put their all into having fun. Sometimes I don't like some of them, but that is a choice I make. They shouldn't stop making dubs because of one bad one that may come out.

I thank you for hearing me out and glad we share a similar passion in that respect.

To put this back on topic I wanted to point something out as well.

In the Sakura Confession, Naruto says that it is no longer about the promise he made to her and such, but didn't Naruto tell Sai that the only reason why he can;t tell how he feels about Sakura was because he couldn't keep his promise? Chapter 457.

Here:

picture

And here:

picture 2

So, what....is it about the promises or wasn't it? How can it be about the promises, but then not be about the promises either? Naruto, you really confuse me, I think you just made up bullcrap. What was that about people lying to themselves? 

And still this whole scene, not just the confession, but this whole thing is made pointless because "Naruto only loved Sakura out of a rivalry game." Well, that means Naruto's entire motives throughout the whole manga were pointless. Why did he fight Gaara then? Why did he make a promise to Sakura? Why did do anything at all? "Because Saskeeeeehhh."

So apparently, everything he did for Sakura was nothing, but because of this nothing is the whole reason why he ignored HInata in the first place. So does that mean that literally "nothing" is better than Hinata? That having nothing is better than having Hinata? That is what this is telling me. Does that mean Naruto sees being with Hinata as a punishment for not keeping his promises to his parents, to Sakura, or even to Sasuke? I guess so. Hinata is not a prize, but a punishment because Naruto is a weaksauce hero and he deserves a weaksauce bride.

Great story.....NOT!
 

 

I don't know. To me, during the confession of Sakura, I think he would have actually question Sakura instead of immediatly jumping to conclusions and saying "You're lying to yourself." I more imagined him saying "Do you really mean that? Sakura, I have loved you for a really long time and I really wanted to be with you because I saw you an amazing girl, but do you really just think that Sasuke is meaningless to you? You told me you loved him. Do you still love him and want to save him or is it something else? It's hard for me right now because there is so much and I am just an emotional rollar coaster of feelings for you, about Sasuke, and everything going on."

But, during the confession, he goes from surprised to be just utter angry because she says "I don't care about Sasuke anymore." He just immediatly goes to anger like "HOW DARE YOU JUST NOT GIVE A kitten ABOUT SASUKEEHHH!!!!" He wasn't angry about her thinking it was all about the promise, but rather because she said she stopped giving a kitten about Sasuke.

To me, Naruto really did take it the wrong way and the least he could have done was talk to her about it. Like before he gets angry.
 

 

 

Hard to take that one seriously since Kishimoto didn't write those ones and the fandom doesn't seem to take them seriously either. Not even the proenders.

 

 

Well according to the "Last's logic" He apparently was brainwashed into noticing her, THEN he finally had a rival to fight over for his "PROPERTY"!!!!!!!    

[DrK]

I don't know. To me, during the confession of Sakura, I think he would have actually question Sakura instead of immediatly jumping to conclusions and saying "You're lying to yourself." I more imagined him saying "Do you really mean that? Sakura, I have loved you for a really long time and I really wanted to be with you because I saw you an amazing girl, but do you really just think that Sasuke is meaningless to you? You told me you loved him. Do you still love him and want to save him or is it something else? It's hard for me right now because there is so much and I am just an emotional rollar coaster of feelings for you, about Sasuke, and everything going on."

But, during the confession, he goes from surprised to be just utter angry because she says "I don't care about Sasuke anymore." He just immediatly goes to anger like "HOW DARE YOU JUST NOT GIVE A kitten ABOUT SASUKEEHHH!!!!" He wasn't angry about her thinking it was all about the promise, but rather because she said she stopped giving a kitten about Sasuke.

To me, Naruto really did take it the wrong way and the least he could have done was talk to her about it. Like before he gets angry.

Totally. He would try to figure out why Sakura is doing this from Sakura, not from Sai or whatever dumbass after the fact. And the meanest thing he would say is that it hurts him that he can't believe her because he loves her as well. Kishimoto like a real prick wrote that scene so that it would seem (to Sakura) like Sai was totally wrong to think that about Naruto. Because he treats Sakura like a garbage fire and basically guilt trips her for wanting to abandon Sasuke which is something that Naruto wouldn't do if he loved her. Letting her be with Sasuke is one thing, forcing her to accept her feelings for Sasuke is another. If she wants to lie to herself that's her kittening business. It's one thing if Naruto doesn't want to be a part of it because he doesn't believe the relationship will work in that case, but then say that. Don't say what is essentially "You don't really want to be with me, you still want to be with Sasuke" because you don't kittening know that. It could be that yes she still does care about Sasuke but she could never accept being with him after what has happened. Because she's a reasonable human being who doesn't want to be with a murderer.

[FireFox]

I wish I was joking:
https://www.theguard...n-asian-problem

This is just one of many articles you can find in google. It's funny, but when asked by the Japanese audience whether they thought the movie was great they loved her. They thought casting her as the Major was perfect because of how well she was in the Avengers movie.
https://www.hollywoo...st-shell-992255

So it's funny how that the only people that think this is "whitewashing" or "Racist" are not the people it is "supposedly racist to," but to people who that are going on about Cultural Appropriation. Japanese fans have no problem with white people, or black people, or any other culture wanting to indulge in their culture. In fact, they love the passion that some Americans have for Japanese culture. It is not racist to them, so why are some people say it is? It's like

SJWs: "That's racist. Tell them you are offended."
Japanese people: "Umm, we actually kind of like it. She looks amazing, she is an amazing actor, and I love the way the movie was."
SJWs: "Shut up, you don't know what you are talking about. It is insulting to your kind."
Japanese people: "Not really?"

This is why I am fearful of this "Live Action Naruto" movie they are supposedly making. I mean, what are they gonna do then? It has bad news written all over it. I wish we could get over this era and move forward as humanity instead of this "cultural appropriation period." We should be celebrating culture, not trying  to silence it. It feels like America is taking a step back rather than moving forward. Oh well.
.
Sorry, I went off on a tangent again. This is last time I will post something like this, but I just love anime and I love the dubs. It's great seeing real talented VAs here in english speaking countries put their all into having fun. Sometimes I don't like some of them, but that is a choice I make. They shouldn't stop making dubs because of one bad one that may come out.

I thank you for hearing me out and glad we share a similar passion in that respect.

To put this back on topic I wanted to point something out as well.

In the Sakura Confession, Naruto says that it is no longer about the promise he made to her and such, but didn't Naruto tell Sai that the only reason why he can;t tell how he feels about Sakura was because he couldn't keep his promise? Chapter 457.

Here:

picture

And here:

picture 2

So, what....is it about the promises or wasn't it? How can it be about the promises, but then not be about the promises either? Naruto, you really confuse me, I think you just made up bullcrap. What was that about people lying to themselves? 

And still this whole scene, not just the confession, but this whole thing is made pointless because "Naruto only loved Sakura out of a rivalry game." Well, that means Naruto's entire motives throughout the whole manga were pointless. Why did he fight Gaara then? Why did he make a promise to Sakura? Why did do anything at all? "Because Saskeeeeehhh."

So apparently, everything he did for Sakura was nothing, but because of this nothing is the whole reason why he ignored HInata in the first place. So does that mean that literally "nothing" is better than Hinata? That having nothing is better than having Hinata? That is what this is telling me. Does that mean Naruto sees being with Hinata as a punishment for not keeping his promises to his parents, to Sakura, or even to Sasuke? I guess so. Hinata is not a prize, but a punishment because Naruto is a weaksauce hero and he deserves a weaksauce bride.

Great story.....NOT!
 

 

I don't know. To me, during the confession of Sakura, I think he would have actually question Sakura instead of immediatly jumping to conclusions and saying "You're lying to yourself." I more imagined him saying "Do you really mean that? Sakura, I have loved you for a really long time and I really wanted to be with you because I saw you an amazing girl, but do you really just think that Sasuke is meaningless to you? You told me you loved him. Do you still love him and want to save him or is it something else? It's hard for me right now because there is so much and I am just an emotional rollar coaster of feelings for you, about Sasuke, and everything going on."

But, during the confession, he goes from surprised to be just utter angry because she says "I don't care about Sasuke anymore." He just immediatly goes to anger like "HOW DARE YOU JUST NOT GIVE A kitten ABOUT SASUKEEHHH!!!!" He wasn't angry about her thinking it was all about the promise, but rather because she said she stopped giving a kitten about Sasuke.

To me, Naruto really did take it the wrong way and the least he could have done was talk to her about it. Like before he gets angry.
 

 

 

Hard to take that one seriously since Kishimoto didn't write those ones and the fandom doesn't seem to take them seriously either. Not even the proenders.

 

HOLLY FUK ITS WORST THEN I THOUGHT!!!  .

 

All I can say man is I totally understand what you mean as for this Naruto Live Action Movie I'm never touching anything Naruto related ever again but if things remain as they are well its up to no good for sure *sigh*  

 

Sure no problem bro anytime  .

 

 

Moving on to Beruto:

 

The thing is at that time it didn't seemed to me like he was abandoning the POAL completely as a whole but that it just give it another reason for saving Sasuke beside the POAL but even with that it looks like it was undermining/diminishing it, even though it was revisited again I think by the end in some scene (my memory is foggy bc I couldn't care any less by then). Basically it is as you say it sh*ts on the whole purpose of it, it gets retconed like everything else . But here's the funny thing James we are told that everything is "Red Herring"  I mean that totally makes sense right?! The thing that I'm most pissed about is that they tried to insult my reading comprehension like we are some 5 year old kids that's what hurts the most!!! You can't fuking call such vital piece of information red herrings its a fuking RETCON!!!

 

He did take it the wrong way he absolutely did in the worst possible way, they both did go the wrong way about it no excuses for anyone, but its why I say the way this whole thing was constructed literary made no sense, their actions and how it was written didn't correlate with each other canon-wise. For this exact reason its why it still remains the most confusing s**t ever written in a fictional story, he wanted to create some kind of a drama that he absolutely had no freaking idea how to go about it! As he pointed out in that interview right after the events even the people around him were confused and didn't knew just what in the hell was he trying to accomplish with this. He just admitted how much he sucks there and yet he had the nerve to tell us it was all just a "red herring" when he constantly contradicts himself! Yeah F OFF!!! Whenever I think of this scene my head just explodes ugh!          

 

Bolded: Really?! Who wrote them then?!  

Edited by FireFox, 24 December 2017 - 09:34 PM.

[DrK]

The thing is at that time it didn't seemed to me like he was abandoning the POAL completely as a whole but that it just give it another reason for saving Sasuke beside the POAL but even with that it looks like it was undermining/diminishing it

"I want to bring back Sasuke because of my love for Haruno Sakura" > "I want to bring back Sasuke because I want him back, and coincidentally, Sakura also does"

 

It completely ruins the POAL in any event, regardless of whether or not he's explicitly abandoning the POAL. Even if he wanted Sasuke back for himself too, he needs to shut up about it because he said he would do it for Sakura, and now he's recanted that. It makes Naruto far less admirable and undercuts his feelings for Sakura.

Edited by DrK, 24 December 2017 - 09:28 PM.

[FireFox]

"I want to bring back Sasuke because of my love for Haruno Sakura" > "I want to bring back Sasuke because I want him back, and coincidentally, Sakura also does"

 

It completely ruins the POAL in any event, regardless of whether or not he's explicitly abandoning the POAL. Even if he wanted Sasuke back for himself too, he needs to shut up about it because he said he would do it for Sakura, and now he's recanted that. It makes Naruto far less admirable and undercuts his feelings for Sakura.

I agree more or less its what I was trying to say, this is why this whole confession thing didn't sit very well with me even if NS did became canon he needed to fix this if possible at all, and not only that but it also ruins the image of Naruto and what he stands for as a hero as a character. Kishimoto manged to turn something so sweet like the POAL into pure and utter s**t .  

Edited by FireFox, 24 December 2017 - 09:51 PM.

[DrK]

I agree more or less its what I was trying to say, this is why this whole confession thing didn't sit very well with me even if NS did became canon he needed to fix this if possible at all, and not only that but it also ruins the image of Naruto and what he stands for as a hero as a character. Kishimoto manged to turn something so sweet like the POAL into pure and utter s**t .  

Naruto stands for Sasuke, even though Sasuke doesn't even stand for himself. Sasuke considered his life meaningless as long as he destroyed Itachi. He would have allowed Orochimaru to violate his body. Naruto is the one getting angry. Sasuke is totally cool with it. He doesn't respect Sasuke's choice. It's like a parent not accepting that their son is gay. Except Naruto isn't Sasuke's parent, he's not even related to him. Some hero he is.

[FireFox]

Naruto stands for Sasuke, even though Sasuke doesn't even stand for himself. Sasuke considered his life meaningless as long as he destroyed Itachi. He would have allowed Orochimaru to violate his body. Naruto is the one getting angry. Sasuke is totally cool with it. He doesn't respect Sasuke's choice. It's like a parent not accepting that their son is gay. Except Naruto isn't Sasuke's parent, he's not even related to him. Some hero he is.

Like I said a "Little Whiny Betch" who joined the ranks of Sasuke's wankers guard. It would have been easier to just rename this s**t into Sasuke and the Uchiha's, Sasuke can't do no wrong or Saint Sasuke take your pick *sigh* .  

[DrK]

Sasuke can't do no wrong

Sasuke helped fight the bad guys and then tried to kill Naruto and take over the world = Sasuke is a hero who saved the world. He gets more positive spin than Mr. Satan does.

Edited by DrK, 24 December 2017 - 10:54 PM.

[FireFox]

Sasuke helped fight the bad guys and then tried to kill Naruto and take over the world = Sasuke is a hero who saved the world. He gets more positive spin than Mr. Satan does.

 

He joins the fight for his own selfish agenda mind you, and the entire time does literary nothing but joins for the finale battle. 

 

But dear god that is so true its hilarious at how ridiculous it is           .

Edited by FireFox, 24 December 2017 - 11:27 PM.

[DrK]

Scene at the ramen stand after Naruto hurts his arm using Rasenshuriken.
 










 
What happens in this scene? Naruto hurt his arm using the Rasenshuriken against Kakuzu. He is at the ramen stand with Sakura and struggling to eat with his non-dominant hand. Sakura looks at Naruto's injured arm and thinks back to when she was treating him for the injury. Back then, she warned Naruto of the dangers of the jutsu, something Tsunade had already done. Naruto brushes off her warning, saying that this situation makes him happy. Sakura asks him what he means, and he explains that it feels like they both are getting closer to Sasuke.
 
Back in present time, Sakura tells Naruto to give her his chopsticks with a shifty expression on her face. Naruto correctly assumes that she was going to feed him and is quite interested in this prospect. Sai, for some reason, decides to feed Naruto before Sakura has a chance to. This is something that Naruto is considerably less interested in. Kakashi shows up to arrange to finally tell Naruto about the secrets of Kage Bunshin training, and the scene ends.
 
Why does Sakura decide to help Naruto? You could say that she just feels bad for him, but the expression on her face is far too conspiratorial. I think it's fairly obvious. The intimacy of this gesture is also obvious. They were in a public place where any number of people could have gotten the wrong idea, so it is actually quite significant that Sakura was willing to do this. There was a time when Sakura would have cringed at the idea of doing this, to say nothing of allowing other people to witness it happening.
 
Did Naruto love Sakura at this point? Yes.
 
Did Sakura love Naruto at this point? She had already started to like him before this. There is the issue of Sasuke, but you have to consider that it's Naruto who keeps bringing him up. When has Sasuke ever been an obstacle for Sakura doing anything in any of these scenes? He was hardly mentioned by her for most of Shippuden. It makes no sense that in the end, it was Sakura who was unable to fight Sasuke. It should have been Naruto. He was the one obsessing over him the whole time.
 
So what does this mean for NaruSaku? There are scenes which are more significant, but this scene certainly shows Sakura's interest in and care for Naruto, and Naruto's likewise interest in getting closer to Sakura. 
 
Rating: 3. There is something that needs to be discussed regarding Sakura, and this scene is fairly illustrative of it.
 
The character of Haruno Sakura is the embodiment of love and selfless care. She is generally caring towards all her friends, but she's especially caring towards the person she loves. You see this with Sasuke in part 1 with the tray of apples and other occasions where Sakura was concerned for his welfare. In part 2, you see this being directed towards Naruto in many of the scenes discussed in this thread. This aspect of Sakura is seen over and over again in the manga. It's far more prevalent than her punching people. Basically, if Sakura loves you, you're golden. She will direct all of her considerable passion and talents towards helping you. You could go so far as to say that Sakura would likely not be happy without a beloved one to take care of in this way. In a sense, it's her whole reason for existing in the manga. Without it, she really would be just another unimportant character like Kiba.
 
Naruto makes a good candidate for her. He had a terrible childhood. There's a lot of things he probably struggles to talk about without someone who is very patient who he completely trusts. There will be times that he doesn't feel like he's worth anything and needs someone to lean on. Someone who can be strong when he isn't.
 
Sasuke had a miserable life as well, but he's an extremely private person. He doesn't share the weaknesses inside himself with others. He rejected Sakura every time she tried to make him feel better. He sees no value in that kind of thing at all.
 
So there's an important question at the end of the manga. Did Sakura ultimately find someone?
 
The answer is no. Not only did Kishimoto put the character defined by love and selfless care with someone who tried to kill her, he didn't even have him stay in the village. So Sakura's most admirable qualities are completely wasted. And Naruto was put with someone who leeches off of his strength and confidence rather than truly supporting him.
 
Hinata needs you to be strong, Naruto. You're not allowed to show any weakness. It could have been okay for you to show weakness, but unfortunately, Sakura is all about Sasuke. She's all about someone who would completely negate her purpose for existing if she is with them. Sure, that makes sense. Great ending.
 

 
For a huge part of Shippuden, Sakura was worried about Naruto or trying to take care of Naruto. You could even say that she was all about that. But how can she be all about that when she's all about Sasuke?
 
Honestly, it was Naruto who was all about Sasuke. Sakura was just along for the ride. But in the end she's the one who was crucified on behalf of Sasuke while Naruto just moves on to being a fascist dictator.
 
There is no justice for this character at all. And she was based on Kishimoto's wife. Let that sink in for a while.

Edited by DrK, 28 December 2017 - 02:05 AM.

[T XD]

Firefox fully active here. That will be fun

[James S Cassidy]

The more I relive these scenes the more it looks like wasted potential. People keep wanting to say that Hinata is such a selfish person, but Hinata only seems to pop up when kitten hits the fans. What about down time moments? She is not here feeding Naruto who has issues with his arm.
 

Naruto totally takes it romatically here, but why don't some of the fans take it as such? Because it is not Hinata's thats why.

Imagine if this happened.

[FireFox]

Firefox fully active here. That will be fun

Is that so?!!  . To bad you missed all the fun, sucks to be you!!!  .  

[Gravenimage]

The more I relive these scenes the more it looks like wasted potential. People keep wanting to say that Hinata is such a selfish person, but Hinata only seems to pop up when kitten hits the fans. What about down time moments? She is not here feeding Naruto who has issues with his arm.
 

Naruto totally takes it romatically here, but why don't some of the fans take it as such? Because it is not Hinata's thats why.

Imagine if this happened.

 

If this^ happens I bet they will say" OMG! Naruto stabbed Hinata-hime that is SO romantic! "

[StrikerTheNoble]

I`ve been thinking... what if Kishimoto is secretly a genius?

 

Sure it would be simple to assume that Kishi at some point lost his complete marbles and decided to ignore all the development he put into the manga. Now by no means will I even suggest that the following was the plan all along.

 

I think we can rightly assume that the endgame ships were the result of some sort of editorial interference. But what if his ultimate answer was "Fine I will do it but go to hell."

Because if you read the epilogue or even the early Boruto manga (I haven't caught up yet fyi) it is written in no unclear terms that they are not happy. Everybody has a kittentier life than they did before the world was "fixed".

 

So why do I believe this was done? I believe that the ending made it clear that NS should have been endgame. But due to their personal issues with themselves because if you think about it both Naruto and Sakura hate themselves to some degree. And if their belief that they cannot make the other happy because they each see themselves as the lesser option for the other is strong enough than the ending is perfectly logical. It was their own insecurity that prevented the prime timeline from occurring and we are thus given the darkest timeline version of future events in which they both paradoxically sacrificed their own happiness by not giving their love a chance while also playing it safe by choosing the safe option. For Sakura it was Sasuke who was always her ""love"" and was thus logical to her that Sasuke was her emotional fallback, while for Naruto it was Hinata who was always an option for him albeit one he (for the obvious reasons) never would have considered. Thus they made their moves (or lack there off) and the weaves of fate took over from there.

 

Therefore I believe that the scenes that were so nicely analysed in this topic (hats off to ya mate) ultimately served a purpose. Be it in the prime timeline context of NaruSaku in which it all has meaningful payoff or the darkest timeline which is ultimately a story of unrequited love on both sides that ultimately devastated two marriages and what was once a wonderful friendship.

 

PS: I wonder of Kishimoto`s age could have had an impact on his choosing an unhappy ending for the heroes. He was about ready to enter his midlife crisis years which could contribute to the darker ending so completely devoid of the early optimism. Because really... the ending is a sad commentary on what shinobi (or people for that matter) would be without purpose.

Edited by StrikerTheNoble, 28 December 2017 - 11:36 PM.

[DrK]

I`ve been thinking... what if Kishimoto is secretly a genius?

 

Sure it would be simple to assume that Kishi at some point lost his complete marbles and decided to ignore all the development he put into the manga. Now by no means will I even suggest that the following was the plan all along.

 

I think we can rightly assume that the endgame ships were the result of some sort of editorial interference. But what if his ultimate answer was "Fine I will do it but go to hell."

Kishimoto certainly sabotaged it, either consciously or unconsciously. For instance, there was no need to have Sasuke say that he would never even consider being with Sakura at the end if he was going to end up with Sakura. Sasuke was many terrible things, but a hypocrite wasn't one of them.

Edited by DrK, 29 December 2017 - 12:20 AM.

[RulesofNature]

I`ve been thinking... what if Kishimoto is secretly a genius?

 

Sure it would be simple to assume that Kishi at some point lost his complete marbles and decided to ignore all the development he put into the manga. Now by no means will I even suggest that the following was the plan all along.

 

I think we can rightly assume that the endgame ships were the result of some sort of editorial interference. But what if his ultimate answer was "Fine I will do it but go to hell."

Because if you read the epilogue or even the early Boruto manga (I haven't caught up yet fyi) it is written in no unclear terms that they are not happy. Everybody has a kittentier life than they did before the world was "fixed".

 

So why do I believe this was done? I believe that the ending made it clear that NS should have been endgame. But due to their personal issues with themselves because if you think about it both Naruto and Sakura hate themselves to some degree. And if their belief that they cannot make the other happy because they each see themselves as the lesser option for the other is strong enough than the ending is perfectly logical. It was their own insecurity that prevented the prime timeline from occurring and we are thus given the darkest timeline version of future events in which they both paradoxically sacrificed their own happiness by not giving their love a chance while also playing it safe by choosing the safe option. For Sakura it was Sasuke who was always her ""love"" and was thus logical to her that Sasuke was her emotional fallback, while for Naruto it was Hinata who was always an option for him albeit one he (for the obvious reasons) never would have considered. Thus they made their moves (or lack there off) and the weaves of fate took over from there.

 

Therefore I believe that the scenes that were so nicely analysed in this topic (hats off to ya mate) ultimately served a purpose. Be it in the prime timeline context of NaruSaku in which it all has meaningful payoff or the darkest timeline which is ultimately a story of unrequited love on both sides that ultimately devastated two marriages and what was once a wonderful friendship.

 

PS: I wonder of Kishimoto`s age could have had an impact on his choosing an unhappy ending for the heroes. He was about ready to enter his midlife crisis years which could contribute to the darker ending so completely devoid of the early optimism. Because really... the ending is a sad commentary on what shinobi (or people for that matter) would be without purpose.

 

I've actually theorized that the ending and what was set up for Boruto was out of spite.

 

Here's how it works. Naruto ended up consuming Kishi's life. SP, SJ and all the rest kept pushing him to expand the story, far further than he originally intended to. Kishi wasn't able to spend time with his wife and kids like he wanted to, instead having to focus on a story he was losing passion for and an incredibly demanding schedule. What's worse, the suits made it clear that they wanted to keep the franchise going with a next generation angle which meant that Naruto couldn't fix the ninja system (I've made similar claims about Tomino and the endings of Zeta/ZZ Gundam being driven by the fact there was another Gundam installment planned to come afterwards).

 

Naruto had taken over Kishi's life, so Kishi struck back. Naruto didn't marry the girl he loved, and has a dysfunctional relationship with his son. His son has also received extensive training as a ninja, and whose goal is to serve the future hokage as their shadow ops master when Naruto was against how the ninja system dehumanized it's members. In addition, Boruto acts out like Naruto did but Naruto doesn't care, instead telling Boruto to endure the lonlieness when Naruto's greatest strength came through the bonds he established with others. Naruto is also continuing to keep the truth about the Uchiha a secret in order to serve the village, while Sasuke and Sakura have a sham of a marriage. And when the script for The Last was presented to him, he realized how awful Naruto and Hinata came off as so he gave his approval.

 

In the end, he set out to assassinate Naruto's character out of spite with the things he established for the sequel. SP, SJ and the rest didn't realize what they were given until it was too late while Kishi himself until recently was retained on Boruto's staff. Guess there is no such thing as a perfect crime.