756 replies to this topic

[Phantom_999]

Well back on Topic let's review the Narruto voing to protect Sakura scene and the the  POAL scene

[James S Cassidy]

Yeah, that would be one of the best ones to do, probably. In a lot of these posts, I just end up talking 90% about Sakura.

 

Looks like I missed something important that happened. Oh well. I am sure everyone will still be here later on to tell me about it.

Well, it is hard not to when Naruto's part is just so obvious. It is like saying "Hinata loves Naruto," well, yeah that is kind of obvious because she says it A LOT. Naruto's love for Sakura is also the most obvious to everyone save for Pro-enders so the part that needs most explaining is the Sakura parts.

[DrK]

Well, it is hard not to when Naruto's part is just so obvious. It is like saying "Hinata loves Naruto," well, yeah that is kind of obvious because she says it A LOT. Naruto's love for Sakura is also the most obvious to everyone save for Pro-enders so the part that needs most explaining is the Sakura parts.

Yeah... Though it's not just that. Thes scenes are mostly just about Sakura acting on strong feelings that she has while Naruto is completely oblivious or at least completely surprised.

 

Why the kitten would you have your heroine do stuff like this and then not have her end up with the hero? God, it's dumb.

Edited by DrK, 09 December 2017 - 12:51 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Isn’t it?

[FireFox]

Yeah... Though it's not just that. Thes scenes are mostly just about Sakura acting on strong feelings that she has while Naruto is completely oblivious or at least completely surprised.

 

Why the kitten would you have your heroine do stuff like this and then not have her end up with the hero? God, it's dumb.

I can't blame Naruto for this part bc he witnessed to many times Sakura crying over Sasuke like the hospital scene, the POAL etc. so this part I think its kind of understandable. Kishimoto went overboard with Sakura's unrealistic feelings for Sasuke, this is the damage he made on Sakura's character bc I as the reader need a valid proof/the reason for those said feelings but there was no foundation no build up whatsoever for me to believe that there's some connection that somehow her love changed from obsessed fangirl to "mature love", the only thing that changed is that her "love" now is based on that she wanted to "save him" which is no reason at all bc the same thing you can apply it to Naruto.

 

In conclusion the best thing you can come up with is that her love is based on misconception of who Sasuke really is basically she had a wrong image of "Prince Charming". Its for this exact same reason even before the ending that I argued strongly in here that for NS to happen it needed only two things bc the build up was there it only needed 1.) Sakura's realization of her true filings that Sasuke was never that guy but in fact was Naruto the guy who makes her happy and warms her heart and 2.) Making a honest heartfelt confession to Naruto convincing him of the above, actually you can put even point 3.) Naruto confessing his feelings to her bc it was freaking foreshadowed and I believe that Sakura somewhat believed she's unworthy of his love, basically telling her how amazing she is for who she is would have done it. Honestly it wasn't that hard to execute this it could have all been done by just revisiting Chapter.3  but all of that got retconed and was used for the SS forehead poke, see the irony in here!?  .        

 

Edited by FireFox, 09 December 2017 - 04:53 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

This is almost an allegory for real life relationships and how this stupid idealogic love seems to outweigh any real love that can blossom. Instead of the girl choosing the real man who grew up and learned through hardship to get where he is and who never took her for granted, goes for the jerk jock who flexed his pecs in High School and thinks he is so good thinking he will be rich in sports contract only to end up fat, bald, and is not worth the spit he thinks he is. In all this time, she never thinks "maybe I should have been with that guy instead" she keeps pandering saying "I wish my guy was like that guy."

I never understood it when gils do that. When they can go to a guy who is everything that they want from a man and tell them: "Man, I wish I had a guy like you as my boyfriend." Well, that guy is a guy like him and he loves you, so why not give him a chance? No, she has to be with the jock and wants the jocks to be like the other guy.

I guess guys do this too with girls, but I don't see it very often if I do at all. I never hear a guy go "Man, I wish I had a girl like you as my girlfriend" to a girl who is obviously in love with them.

I will never get it. From a man's standpoint, I will never get why girls do that. I have never said anything like that to any girl who had a crush on me. I have had girl tells me that though.

[DrK]

I can't blame Naruto for this part bc he witnessed to many times Sakura crying over Sasuke like the hospital scene, the POAL etc. so this part I think its kind of understandable. Kishimoto went overboard with Sakura's unrealistic feelings for Sasuke, this is the damage he made on Sakura's character bc I as the reader need a valid proof/the reason for those said feelings but there was no foundation no build up whatsoever for me to believe that there's some connection that somehow her love changed from obsessed fangirl to "mature love", the only thing that changed is that her "love" now is based on that she wanted to "save him" which is no reason at all bc the same thing you can apply it to Naruto.

THere was no need for Sakura to keep viewing Sasuke the way she did starting in the Kage Summit Arc. She barely thought about him at all before that in Shippuden and it mostly comes out of left field. The crying Sakura is just in Part 1. Her "love" for him could have even been completely dropped, and no one would have really thought it was that weird. Just have her want to save him. The problem is that does not introduce doubt into the pairing choice if Kishimoto does that.

 

You would have to acknowledge that Sakura did once love Sasuke at the end at some point, but that's it. That's all it would have taken really.

 

James: That is just people having a hard time breaking out of the situation that they find themselves in. If they're not seriously suffering, people are gonna stick with the status quo. It's easy to say "I wish things were different", it's hard to actually make them different. The thing is that Sakura should not have had an issue since Sasuke left the village. She was never with him and should not have wanted to be with him anymore now that she grew up. That's why Kishimoto regressed her into a child. If anything, the person who would be an issue for Sakura if he started acting worthless is Naruto. Since she spent so much time with Naruto, it would be weird to suddenly change things. But I talked about this before so I'll not get into it again. Yes, I realize Naruto did in fact start acting worthless, but there's no in-universe explanation for why he does that.

Edited by DrK, 09 December 2017 - 08:13 PM.

[FireFox]

THere was no need for Sakura to keep viewing Sasuke the way she did starting in the Kage Summit Arc. She barely thought about him at all before that in Shippuden and it mostly comes out of left field. The crying Sakura is just in Part 1. Her "love" for him could have even been completely dropped, and no one would have really thought it was that weird. Just have her want to save him. The problem is that does not introduce doubt into the pairing choice if Kishimoto does that.

 

You would have to acknowledge that Sakura did once love Sasuke at the end at some point, but that's it. That's all it would have taken really.

I agree this is basically what I mean bc before the Kage Summit anyone with basic reading comprehension would see that Sakura didn't really think of Sasuke in romantic way bc everything till then was in the context of  dysfunctional T7 and bringing him back .Also  while true that some suspension is needed regarding the romance subplot there was no need to milk it the way it was putting so much focus on it and toying with the fans bc romance was not the main point of the story and overtime its getting irritating and damaging the story and the characters itself those things need to be balanced well. 

 

I kind of agree but how you gonna go about it and execute it its a totally different matter. Basically this is where the author fuked up and in the process ruined his whole story.    

[DrK]

I agree this is basically what I mean bc before the Kage Summit anyone with basic reading comprehension would see that Sakura didn't really think of Sasuke in romantic way bc everything till then was in the context of  dysfunctional T7 and bringing him back .Also  while true that some suspension is needed regarding the romance subplot there was no need to milk it the way it was putting so much focus on it and toying with the fans bc romance was not the main point of the story and overtime its getting irritating and damaging the story and the characters itself those things need to be balanced well. 

 

I kind of agree but how you gonna go about it and execute it its a totally different matter. Basically this is where the author fuked up and in the process ruined his whole story.    

If you never have Naruto love Sakura, like have him treat her the way Goku treated Bulma, and never have Sakura likewise start to love Naruto, it could have been totally fine. That would be a really interesting setup actually.

 

Instead the ending turns what was largely a good story into total crap. Character motivations make no sense in retrospect. And they had to be made OOC to even be able to end the manga. Let's imagine Naruto does still love Sakura in chapter 699. Can the manga end there? No. Let's imagine that Sasuke doesn't suddenly start loving Sakura for no reason. Again, no. Sakura still cares about Naruto and so is conflicted? No. Development thrown out in favor of deus ex machina BS.

 

While if he ended the story the way he originally was supposed to: Naruto confesses to Sakura. Sakura accepts it. Sasuke smirks and walks away. Everyone is in character and more importantly not f***ing miserable. And the things complained about in this thread, rather than being stupid and pointless, would look masterful. Kishimoto threw his life's work into the trash.

Edited by DrK, 09 December 2017 - 09:01 PM.

[FireFox]

If you never have Naruto love Sakura, like have him treat her the way Goku treated Bulma, and never have Sakura likewise start to love Naruto, it could have been totally fine. That would be a really interesting setup actually.

 

Instead the ending turns what was largely a good story into total crap. Character motivations make no sense in retrospect. And they had to be made OOC to even be able to end the manga. Let's imagine Naruto does still love Sakura in chapter 699. Can the manga end there? No. Let's imagine that Sasuke doesn't suddenly start loving Sakura for no reason. Again, no. Sakura still cares about Naruto and so is conflicted? No. Development thrown out in favor of deus ex machina BS.

 

While if he ended the story the way he originally was supposed to: Naruto confesses to Sakura. Sakura accepts it. Sasuke smirks and walks away. Everyone is in character and more importantly not f***ing miserable. And the things complained about in this thread, rather than being stupid and pointless, would look masterful. Kishimoto threw his life's work into the trash.

That would be interesting it would be a fun casual smooth sailing hehehe  . I used to have tons of headcanons about the series but not anymore its not worth it  . I wished Naruto's character was done a bit different like when he returned with Jiraiya mastering fuinjutsus and wind jutsu, his core personality still a goofball like it was but when in battle or mission act more serious kind of badars  kind of like a mix of Goku and Kenshin or even Minato. Instead we got Naruto being a complete moron in and out and Kishimoto over glorifying his pet Sasuke *sigh* .    

 

LOL True that XD. One thing I think we all understand was that there was no logic in this manga to begin with it was thrown out of the window just like that bc Kishimoto and Logic don't go well you know that word is not in his dictionary  .

 

You know for that reason I previously brought up that UT 2011 OVA video bc it shows that it could have been done better if anything else the ending would have made sense and to tell you the true I prefer the NaruSasu battle in this video (more ninja like) then the useless rushed alien battle crap we got in the manga and that NS scene I don't need to say more. All I can think of is he didn't care the fuking bastard didn't care he bluntly admitted he sold out just by changing the heroine bc NH Hinatards hated her here in the west what a fuking idiot  .

Edited by FireFox, 09 December 2017 - 09:47 PM.

[milan kyuubi]

One of the reasons why I imo think Sakura still went for Sasuke in part one. Was due to the bench scene. She thought that Sasuke legitimately acted that way. Never finding out it was Naruto. I actually think this is the Sasuke she chased (even later on, trying to bring this Sasuke to surface, never realizing that Sasuke never existed!). Of course this could have paid of later on for NS a lot. But Kishi simple scraped the whole thing. And we ended up with magic impregnating finger poke of doom!  

[Phantom_999]

INDEED WE DID

[FireFox]

One of the reasons why I imo think Sakura still went for Sasuke in part one. Was due to the bench scene. She thought that Sasuke legitimately acted that way. Never finding out it was Naruto. I actually think this is the Sasuke she chased (even later on, trying to bring this Sasuke to surface, never realizing that Sasuke never existed!). Of course this could have paid of later on for NS a lot. But Kishi simple scraped the whole thing. And we ended up with magic impregnating finger poke of doom!

Perhaps who knows its all in the air now like the logic in this crap it doesn't need a reason everything just happens out of the blue "boom - pa pow" there its done its totally convincing   .  

 

Gets me every time  .  But seriously since when did Sasuke knew about any of  Sakura's insecurities when through the whole series he didn't give any kitten for her or her feelings!? But Naruto did especially in that Chapter.3  and he realized even why he loves her bc she was just like him, I guess he must have thought its bc she likes Ramen too that's why it was so confusing for him am I right!?  . But Thank God for Sasky Kun and his all powerful  impregnating finger poke of doom! I guess his finger had the ability to sense even that part of Sakura what a coinkydink   .    

[DrK]

. But Thank God for Sasky Kun and his all powerful  impregnating finger poke of doom! I guess his finger had the ability to sense even that part of Sakura what a coinkydink   .    

I don't believe he has that power. If he did, he would certainly have used it on Naruto's Sexy Jutsu form a long time ago.

[FireFox]

I don't believe he has that power. If he did, he would certainly have used it on Naruto's Sexy Jutsu form a long time ago.

Maybe he did and you're just not aware of it, I bet Burito is actually Naruto Kun and Sasky Kun's spawn that's why he runs after his daddy Sasky Kun all the time!!! See it totally makes sense just wait and see in the Burito movie its totally gonna happen  .      

[milan kyuubi]

One thing that pisses me of is how Kishi treated Naruto and Sakura skill wise. With Naruto. He was never weak. The guy was walking nuke who could wipe out anything before him due to Kyuubi. He had SC, unhuman stamina, enormous chakra lvls and determination/guts to push trough tough/impossible situations. He was a rough gem. Who with some polishing could have become a power house on his own. But we had to wait until RS training with Kakashi to see some learning. Before that was just. Learn chakra control Naruto. Or just use Kyuubi's chakra in case of Jiraiya.

 

Sakura could have surpassed Tsunade on so many lvls. Her potential was enormous. Perfect chakra control, mastering all Tsunades skills. She could have learned and become master genjutsy user. And improve/create her own jutsy. But nope tnx to Kishi.

 

Perhaps who knows its all in the air now like the logic in this crap it doesn't need a reason everything just happens out of the blue "boom - pa pow" there its done its totally convincing   .  

 

Gets me every time  .  But seriously since when did Sasuke knew about any of  Sakura's insecurities when through the whole series he didn't give any kitten for her or her feelings!? But Naruto did especially in that Chapter.3  and he realized even why he loves her bc she was just like him, I guess he must have thought its bc she likes Ramen too that's why it was so confusing for him am I right!?  . But Thank God for Sasky Kun and his all powerful  impregnating finger poke of doom! I guess his finger had the ability to sense even that part of Sakura what a coinkydink   .    

 

The days where we would discuss the meaning and events in manga and waited to see how it will play out in the end! The days where Kishi would hardly give any interview in years. And even then give answers like: When he answered how will fight between Itachi vs Sasuke go. He answered with some color name. But Kishi even surpassed his own failure when he made Itachi and THE COOLEST GUY EVER look good compared to the rest!

 

Sasuke doesn't know anything about Sakura. And the only time he even considered Sakura as a friend due to time they spent together in team 7 was in Gaara fight in P1 when he was willing to give his life to save Sakura and Naruto. But hey I am still using logic and common sense/reason here! Being nice/good/supporting is called red hearing, while mind rapes/killings is sight of true love!   

[FireFox]

The days where we would discuss the meaning and events in manga and waited to see how it will play out in the end! The days where Kishi would hardly give any interview in years. And even then give answers like: When he answered how will fight between Itachi vs Sasuke go. He answered with some color name. But Kishi even surpassed his own failure when he made Itachi and THE COOLEST GUY EVER look good compared to the rest!

 

Sasuke doesn't know anything about Sakura. And the only time he even considered Sakura as a friend due to time they spent together in team 7 was in Gaara fight in P1 when he was willing to give his life to save Sakura and Naruto. But hey I am still using logic and common sense/reason here! Being nice/good/supporting is called red hearing, while mind rapes/killings is sight of true love! 

Those interviews were the only good thing about this ending, never have I've been so confused and laughed at the same time, they were a gem to his stupidity and incompetence it only proved that he didn't knew wtf he was doing by the ending  . 

 

That's right you got it, now go find yourself a waifu and stab her through the heart and forehead poke her  if you want to have an everlasting true love and then dump her like a used rag, your journey should be complete then  . 

[DrK]

Relevant panels from the Gaara fight.
 

























 
What happens in this scene? After Team 7 encounters Gaara, Sakura gets trapped against a tree by sand. Gaara threatens Sakura, so Naruto attacks him. During the fight, Sasuke tells Naruto that he knows Naruto has the power to save Sakura. Then later, Naruto's frog summon Gamakichi picks up on Naruto's affection for Sakura. After Gaara is defeated, Sasuke tells Naruto that Sakura is fine and Naruto smiles in relief.
 
What is notable about this? A few things, actually. For starters, Naruto's determination to protect Sakura. You have the juxtaposition of Gaara, who fights only for himself, and Naruto, who fights for Sakura. This was an opponent Sasuke stood no chance against, but Naruto won because he was protecting a precious person, Sakura. It's a central theme of the manga.
 
I don't know what to make of Sasuke's encouragement of Naruto. It could be that Sasuke is worried about Sakura, that he has faith in Naruto's ability, or he's encouraging Naruto because he knows how important Sakura is to Naruto. Or it could be a combination of these. This is one case where I really have no clue, though. Sasuke in this era of the manga is harder to figure out.
 
Gamakichi girlfriend comment: The frog is one of a few characters to assume Sakura is Naruto's girlfriend. Apparently, though, NaruHina was planned from the beginning? Yeah, I can really see that here!
 
Did Naruto love Sakura at this point? Yes. No one is going to tell me otherwise.   
 
Did Sakura love Naruto at this point? Eh, the situation is basically the same as it was in the Chunin Exams. She was really happy when Naruto won his fights though, and I'm never going to talk about those scenes so I'll mention it here. Sakura was the only one to believe in Naruto's capability to beat Kiba. Hinata was just as pessimistic about it as everyone else. Again, NaruHina was planned from the beginning? Then why didn't Hinata believe in Naruto? This seems like basic s***.
 
So what does this mean for NaruSaku? Naruto goes beyond his limits to protect Sakura. At this point, it's really likely that he cares more about Sakura than he does about Sasuke. In late Shippuden, you would be hard pressed to argue that this is even close to being the case.
 
Rating: 3. It's fine if Naruto is protecting Sakura if he doesn't end up with Sakura, but again, some unforgivable things are said and shown. Gamakichi for one. Also Naruto's flashback where he asks Sakura if she wants to know how he feels about her. Basically, the more emphasis you put on Naruto's love for Sakura, the more f***ed up it is.
 
His relieved smile is also painful to look at now. He would have given ANYTHING to save Sakura. And Sakura was touched when she found out about this. But of course, she's too obsessed with Sasuke. There's no way to write your manga so that she ends up with Naruto, because she's just all about Sasuke. Kishi had no choice but to ultimately destroy his manga with an asspull ending. That poor man.
 

 
Naruto, she did start to like you. That's the worst part about all of this.

Edited by DrK, 13 December 2017 - 12:06 AM.

[FireFox]

I don't know what to make of Sasuke's encouragement of Naruto. It could be that Sasuke is worried about Sakura, that he has faith in Naruto's ability, or he's encouraging Naruto because he knows how important Sakura is to Naruto. Or it could be a combination of these. This is one case where I really have no clue, though. Sasuke in this era of the manga is harder to figure out.

You have to look at the context here for both Naruto and Sasuke, for Naruto it became all about saving his precious one Sakura and going out of his way to do it so this is indisputable a NS,  as for Sasuke it was about sacrificing himself for the BOTH of them so its put in the context of T7, at this point you can say Sasuke did care for them bc he saw T7 as a substitute for his family and he didn't want to see that massacre again but ultimately they were just a hindrance to him something they couldn't replace. 

 

The rest is spot on as you described it  . 

Edited by FireFox, 10 December 2017 - 02:40 PM.

[DrK]

You have to look at the context here for both Naruto and Sasuke, for Naruto it became all about saving his precious one Sakura and going out of his way to do it so this indisputable a NS,  as for Sasuke it was about sacrificing himself for the BOTH of them so its put in the context of T7, at this point you can say Sasuke did care for them bc he saw T7 as a substitute for his family and he didn't want see that massacre again but ultimately they were just a hindrance to him something they couldn't replace. 

Yeah, I guess it was a continuation of the "look at my back" scene that Sasuke had in the forest. A rare appearance of Heroic Sasuke. It's like a shiny Pokemon.