19 replies to this topic

[Nostradamus]

I mean really small rant by my standards.

 

Now I’m not sure you’ve noticed this but I’m quick to judge. When I read a comment or hear something my first reaction isn’t always the best one or the correct one.  It’s my fault and I should probably learn not to jump to conclusions so fast.

 

That being said let’s continue with this small rant, I know I’ve called my last rant “One Last Rant” but truth is I just like to do these things. And I hope you like reading them and if you don’t well don’t read them, no one is forcing you. This is just a small rant.

 

Now like I’ve said in my last rant I believed Kishi sold out to part 3. However I’m not so sure anymore since his recent interviews.  Now don’t think I’m here to defend poor little Kishi because I’m not.

What I’ve always done is try to understand things. To understand why things work in a certain way. I’ve always tried to follow logic.

 

I believe he was forced to do this by his bosses or his contract with SP. I don’t really know what power an anime studio has over a manga artist/writer, but it’s a possibility that SP had more power than we thought. Maybe some of you know if you do please let me know. Now why do I say that he was forced to do this?

 

Well simple. Truth is many of you noticed this or not but we didn’t get an ending at all.

What we got chapter 699, chapter 699.5 aka The Last and 700 are nothing more than pathetic and horribly executed excuses in order to “reboot” the story with a main character that is similar to Naruto. He’s lonely just like Naruto, he’s neglected by everyone just like Naruto and he seeks acknowledgement just like Naruto. Basically it’s done so we can follow the same story all over again but this time more modern.

 

This is the reason why the lore is just broken and we have skyscrapers, laptops, cellphones, facebook, you name it. It’s all done to appeal to a much large audience. To be more precise the west.

We all know that NH is the most popular pairing in the west, no one can deny this. Even in my own country even though Naruto isn’t popular, NH is amongst the few people that followed it.

 

Now if you read the manga until chapter 698 that’s also the end of the story because in that chapter the main plot actually got resolved,  and you read Kishi’s previous interviews the ones that were done before what we got as an “ending” to the manga and the movie. You’ll notice exactly how the story was going to end. It was clear that Naruto will end up Hokage because everyone noticed him and because he work his ass off for it, it was clear that he will be one that will finally put an end to the cycle of hatred that the Ninja world was in, he will be the one that will succeed where everyone else failed. And that also meant ending  with the girl he loves Sakura and having a family and give his child/children what he didn’t have a real family. And not what we got.

 

Now this is just me but I really don’t think Kishi sold out. For two simple reasons I don’t think this.

First of all I find it really hard to believe that someone who wrote a decent story actually a good for good portion of the time, yes since the war arc started everything started to go downhill and they never went back again but it still had a few good moments. I find it really hard to believe that someone that wrote so many emotional scenes and inspired so many people through his writing will all of sudden destroy all of it and telling his readers that they read it wrong.

I can’t even find the words to describe how insane that sounds.

 

And the second reason and this is truly why I believe he was forced to do this. Are his recent interviews. Because if he actually sold out in order to make more money from the continuation then why does he say stuff that pisses people off?

It makes no sense if you want to make more money then you say things to please people so they will continue to support you. Not say stuff that will drive people away from it.

 

Seriously coming out and saying that NH is a just done out of pity is not going to drive people to part 3. Saying that Neji died as a cupid and he killed him because Hinata was popular or whatever crap he said is not going to make people continue. And all the other stupid things that come out of his mouth.

 

I don’t know about you guys and girls but to me this doesn’t sound like a man that sold out and he’s only after our money. This sounds like someone that was told to do this when he didn’t want to do it. Most likely it was in his contract. Thing is we don’t really know his contract, we don’t know how much he’s truly in control of “Naruto”. And to me by the looks of it he doesn’t have much control at all.

 

Again don’t think I’m defending him because there’s also the chance that he really is a sick kitten and this is truly what he always wanted. But again I have to point out it doesn’t make sense.

 

I just think we should give him the benefit of the doubt. To me if at Jump Fiesta he comes out and says even more stupid stuff that will make everyone hate “Naruto”, well to me that will be a confirmation that he was forced to do this and now he’s “fighting” back so to say.

 

The only way he knows how by making sure people won’t continue the abomination that is to come. Maybe he’s hoping just like I’m hoping that part 3 will be a failure and whoever was in charge of this will see it and give him the possibility to actually to give the audience a real ending to this story.

Let me know what you think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheFirstEvil100]

I mean really small rant by my standards.

 

Now I’m not sure you’ve noticed this but I’m quick to judge. When I read a comment or hear something my first reaction isn’t always the best one or the correct one.  It’s my fault and I should probably learn not to jump to conclusions so fast.

 

That being said let’s continue with this small rant, I know I’ve called my last rant “One Last Rant” but truth is I just like to do these things. And I hope you like reading them and if you don’t well don’t read them, no one is forcing you. This is just a small rant.

 

Now like I’ve said in my last rant I believed Kishi sold out to part 3. However I’m not so sure anymore since his recent interviews.  Now don’t think I’m here to defend poor little Kishi because I’m not.

What I’ve always done is try to understand things. To understand why things work in a certain way. I’ve always tried to follow logic.

 

I believe he was forced to do this by his bosses or his contract with SP. I don’t really know what power an anime studio has over a manga artist/writer, but it’s a possibility that SP had more power than we thought. Maybe some of you know if you do please let me know. Now why do I say that he was forced to do this?

 

Well simple. Truth is many of you noticed this or not but we didn’t get an ending at all.

What we got chapter 699, chapter 699.5 aka The Last and 700 are nothing more than pathetic and horribly executed excuses in order to “reboot” the story with a main character that is similar to Naruto. He’s lonely just like Naruto, he’s neglected by everyone just like Naruto and he seeks acknowledgement just like Naruto. Basically it’s done so we can follow the same story all over again but this time more modern.

 

This is the reason why the lore is just broken and we have skyscrapers, laptops, cellphones, facebook, you name it. It’s all done to appeal to a much large audience. To be more precise the west.

We all know that NH is the most popular pairing in the west, no one can deny this. Even in my own country even though Naruto isn’t popular, NH is amongst the few people that followed it.

 

Now if you read the manga until chapter 698 that’s also the end of the story because in that chapter the main plot actually got resolved,  and you read Kishi’s previous interviews the ones that were done before what we got as an “ending” to the manga and the movie. You’ll notice exactly how the story was going to end. It was clear that Naruto will end up Hokage because everyone noticed him and because he work his ass off for it, it was clear that he will be one that will finally put an end to the cycle of hatred that the Ninja world was in, he will be the one that will succeed where everyone else failed. And that also meant ending  with the girl he loves Sakura and having a family and give his child/children what he didn’t have a real family. And not what we got.

 

Now this is just me but I really don’t think Kishi sold out. For two simple reasons I don’t think this.

First of all I find it really hard to believe that someone who wrote a decent story actually a good for good portion of the time, yes since the war arc started everything started to go downhill and they never went back again but it still had a few good moments. I find it really hard to believe that someone that wrote so many emotional scenes and inspired so many people through his writing will all of sudden destroy all of it and telling his readers that they read it wrong.

I can’t even find the words to describe how insane that sounds.

 

And the second reason and this is truly why I believe he was forced to do this. Are his recent interviews. Because if he actually sold out in order to make more money from the continuation then why does he say stuff that pisses people off?

It makes no sense if you want to make more money then you say things to please people so they will continue to support you. Not say stuff that will drive people away from it.

 

Seriously coming out and saying that NH is a just done out of pity is not going to drive people to part 3. Saying that Neji died as a cupid and he killed him because Hinata was popular or whatever crap he said is not going to make people continue. And all the other stupid things that come out of his mouth.

 

I don’t know about you guys and girls but to me this doesn’t sound like a man that sold out and he’s only after our money. This sounds like someone that was told to do this when he didn’t want to do it. Most likely it was in his contract. Thing is we don’t really know his contract, we don’t know how much he’s truly in control of “Naruto”. And to me by the looks of it he doesn’t have much control at all.

 

Again don’t think I’m defending him because there’s also the chance that he really is a sick kitten and this is truly what he always wanted. But again I have to point out it doesn’t make sense.

 

I just think we should give him the benefit of the doubt. To me if at Jump Fiesta he comes out and says even more stupid stuff that will make everyone hate “Naruto”, well to me that will be a confirmation that he was forced to do this and now he’s “fighting” back so to say.

 

The only way he knows how by making sure people won’t continue the abomination that is to come. Maybe he’s hoping just like I’m hoping that part 3 will be a failure and whoever was in charge of this will see it and give him the possibility to actually to give the audience a real ending to this story.

Let me know what you think.

 

 

Hmmmmmmmm, well this is something that we can all think about a lot I mean we may never know but if its true SP are doing this then well it just makes them all the more bad and makes them a bunch of D*****s for doing this and all for Hinata, this will just make me hate Hinata even more than I do now.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I mean really small rant by my standards.

 

Now I’m not sure you’ve noticed this but I’m quick to judge. When I read a comment or hear something my first reaction isn’t always the best one or the correct one.  It’s my fault and I should probably learn not to jump to conclusions so fast.

 

That being said let’s continue with this small rant, I know I’ve called my last rant “One Last Rant” but truth is I just like to do these things. And I hope you like reading them and if you don’t well don’t read them, no one is forcing you. This is just a small rant.

 

Now like I’ve said in my last rant I believed Kishi sold out to part 3. However I’m not so sure anymore since his recent interviews.  Now don’t think I’m here to defend poor little Kishi because I’m not.

What I’ve always done is try to understand things. To understand why things work in a certain way. I’ve always tried to follow logic.

 

I believe he was forced to do this by his bosses or his contract with SP. I don’t really know what power an anime studio has over a manga artist/writer, but it’s a possibility that SP had more power than we thought. Maybe some of you know if you do please let me know. Now why do I say that he was forced to do this?

 

Well simple. Truth is many of you noticed this or not but we didn’t get an ending at all.

What we got chapter 699, chapter 699.5 aka The Last and 700 are nothing more than pathetic and horribly executed excuses in order to “reboot” the story with a main character that is similar to Naruto. He’s lonely just like Naruto, he’s neglected by everyone just like Naruto and he seeks acknowledgement just like Naruto. Basically it’s done so we can follow the same story all over again but this time more modern.

 

This is the reason why the lore is just broken and we have skyscrapers, laptops, cellphones, facebook, you name it. It’s all done to appeal to a much large audience. To be more precise the west.

We all know that NH is the most popular pairing in the west, no one can deny this. Even in my own country even though Naruto isn’t popular, NH is amongst the few people that followed it.

 

Now if you read the manga until chapter 698 that’s also the end of the story because in that chapter the main plot actually got resolved,  and you read Kishi’s previous interviews the ones that were done before what we got as an “ending” to the manga and the movie. You’ll notice exactly how the story was going to end. It was clear that Naruto will end up Hokage because everyone noticed him and because he work his ass off for it, it was clear that he will be one that will finally put an end to the cycle of hatred that the Ninja world was in, he will be the one that will succeed where everyone else failed. And that also meant ending  with the girl he loves Sakura and having a family and give his child/children what he didn’t have a real family. And not what we got.

 

Now this is just me but I really don’t think Kishi sold out. For two simple reasons I don’t think this.

First of all I find it really hard to believe that someone who wrote a decent story actually a good for good portion of the time, yes since the war arc started everything started to go downhill and they never went back again but it still had a few good moments. I find it really hard to believe that someone that wrote so many emotional scenes and inspired so many people through his writing will all of sudden destroy all of it and telling his readers that they read it wrong.

I can’t even find the words to describe how insane that sounds.

 

And the second reason and this is truly why I believe he was forced to do this. Are his recent interviews. Because if he actually sold out in order to make more money from the continuation then why does he say stuff that pisses people off?

It makes no sense if you want to make more money then you say things to please people so they will continue to support you. Not say stuff that will drive people away from it.

 

Seriously coming out and saying that NH is a just done out of pity is not going to drive people to part 3. Saying that Neji died as a cupid and he killed him because Hinata was popular or whatever crap he said is not going to make people continue. And all the other stupid things that come out of his mouth.

 

I don’t know about you guys and girls but to me this doesn’t sound like a man that sold out and he’s only after our money. This sounds like someone that was told to do this when he didn’t want to do it. Most likely it was in his contract. Thing is we don’t really know his contract, we don’t know how much he’s truly in control of “Naruto”. And to me by the looks of it he doesn’t have much control at all.

 

Again don’t think I’m defending him because there’s also the chance that he really is a sick kitten and this is truly what he always wanted. But again I have to point out it doesn’t make sense.

 

I just think we should give him the benefit of the doubt. To me if at Jump Fiesta he comes out and says even more stupid stuff that will make everyone hate “Naruto”, well to me that will be a confirmation that he was forced to do this and now he’s “fighting” back so to say.

 

The only way he knows how by making sure people won’t continue the abomination that is to come. Maybe he’s hoping just like I’m hoping that part 3 will be a failure and whoever was in charge of this will see it and give him the possibility to actually to give the audience a real ending to this story.

Let me know what you think.

 

DAMN, dude! XD

[BlackBird19]

I personally feel like Kishi was coerced somewhat by whoever is actually in charge of the Naruto brand. The statement saying that NS was purposely done to be misleading is what made think that a couple of years ago the ending, as pairings go, was to be changed. Naruto is now a brand not just a manga, so the folks in charge made a business decision that would sacrifice the original story while creating this so-called reboot. Only time will tell if they made a correct call business wise or whether Kishi will actually come out and say he has regrets for the way his story unfolded. The Bolt series will be the one to tell us more than likely.

[rocci]

I don't believe in kishimoto.

[Nar123]

Kishimoto just didn't care anymore, I think this was obvious when you notice how this last arc turned out, my guess is around 2010 kishimoto still cared for his work, I mean he
expressed in interviews the desire to make Sakura more heroine like and the fact that he was bothered by people constantly coming up to him and saying "hinata, hinata, hinata".
 
I think somewhere along 2011 - 2014 ( might be related to his father death) he just didn't care anymore, he got tired of doing Naruto week and week over again ( You can even notice because the art got really bad sometimes during the war) and threw the rest of the story at the hands of SP/SJ  basically transforming himself in their puppet.
 
I'm not absolving him of his faults though, ultimately Naruto was his story and as the author kishimoto had the last say so he  actually could and had the means to end the story in a conclusive way. Unfortunately kishi let his greediness and apathy get in the way of a otherwise good story.
 
So yeah, this is my opinion regarding what happened, i can understand where are you coming from OP but sincerely i just don't think KIshi cares anymore so i don't agree that he was forced to make this piece of kitten we call ending. I genuinelly think he decided on NS back at the beginning of part 2 (not NH) otherwise why would Naruto and Sakura have so many moments together while Hinata clearly side lined? I think NS was going to be endgame until kishi stopped caring, giving free reigns to SP and SJ to turn the story towards popularity and their own bias rather than cohesive and logical progression

Edited by Nar123, 19 December 2014 - 02:05 PM.

[Tendo Ryuken]

i do partially agree with OP. my own personal reason is if kishi did really sell out. hed do atleast 50 50 between NH and SS. since SS popularity is high, he might double the general income by doing so

but i doubt he was forced or anything like that. the scarf thingy based on kishi's real life experience between him and his wife, thus hold special meaning for him. and with his power as the story supervisor he insisted the scarf to play important role on NH relationship in the movie. its not an act of someone being forced IMO

about kishi's interviews. i honestly never seen he said something to offend anyone. he usually talk about the fans in general, no nh fandom, no ns fandom, no ss fandom, always 'the fans'.

'i pity hinata so i rewarded her ha ha ha ha' isnt offending. slightly pissed hinata fans yes, but wont drive them away whatsoever

itachi died for sasuke's development. jiraiya died for naruto's development. asuma died for his team's development. kakashi also died once for konoha. neji has strong bond with hinata, and naruto was the one who changed him. even the name 'bolt' has something with 'neji'. nah ppls said that lol. yet kishi shoulnt have said it out loud tho

about hinata being sidelined. it was her popularity that was too high (that 'hinata, hinata, hinata'). kishi really intended for sakura to gain populaity too. dont forget that he once reduced kakashi's for naruto. similar reason

[Nar123]

i do partially agree with OP. my own personal reason is if kishi did really sell out. hed do atleast 50 50 between NH and SS. since SS popularity is high, he might double the general income by doing so

but i doubt he was forced or anything like that. the scarf thingy based on kishi's real life experience between him and his wife, thus hold special meaning for him. and with his power as the story supervisor he insisted the scarf to play important role on NH relationship in the movie. its not an act of someone being forced IMO

about kishi's interviews. i honestly never seen he said something to offend anyone. he usually talk about the fans in general, no nh fandom, no ns fandom, no ss fandom, always 'the fans'.

'i pity hinata so i rewarded her ha ha ha ha' isnt offending. slightly pissed hinata fans yes, but wont drive them away whatsoever

itachi died for sasuke's development. jiraiya died for naruto's development. asuma died for his team's development. kakashi also died once for konoha. neji has strong bond with hinata, and naruto was the one who changed him. even the name 'bolt' has something with 'neji'. nah ppls said that lol. yet kishi shoulnt have said it out loud tho

about hinata being sidelined. it was her popularity that was too high (that 'hinata, hinata, hinata'). kishi really intended for sakura to gain populaity too. dont forget that he once reduced kakashi's for naruto. similar reason

The thing about Neji is that he died to give validity to a pairing, he died so Hinata could somehow get closer to Naruto. Wtf, was there no other means to Kishimoto to do this?
His death didn't had the same sense of impact that jiraiya and Itachi deaths had, it was sudden and goes against the main theme of the series. Hell if neji was meant it would be better to let him die after the fight with kidomaru

[Strangelove]

Naruto and Hinata's kid makes no sense...I thought if Naruto had a son or daughter, he would devote his entire time to them...but seeing as how it is...a neglected child seeking acknowledgement from his father, and his father tells him not to be a wimp and tough it out, unable to see himself in his own son.

Is kind of sad.

 

 

To me, this whole story kind of killed manga for me, at least the big ones, since it looks so easy to destroy a good story for corporate interests.

Edited by Strangelove, 19 December 2014 - 03:19 AM.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

I did mentioned this several times and I'm also not defending him. I'm too not sure how much power an anime studio has over a mangaka/writer but someone posted way back 4 weeks ago an article of a mangaka withdrew his work from a anime studio and discontinued the anime. I think, SP had helped from Kishi's manga house and Viz. Viz is very known for to be biased against NS throughout the manga. I'm not sure where SJ stands because their Festa Website has a NS non canon advertisement.

I blamed Kishi for not standing up and threatened SP and Viz that he would purge the manga if he did not get his way. Kishi is a pushover. I kind of forgive the guy, but won't longer follow any of his work in the future because he does not have the courage to tell VIz, the manga house and SP FU.

[ThroughWithLove]

I dunno guys. Kishi is really laying it thick with the Pro-Hinata comments. I think he may very well telling the truth, therefore making him one of the worst manga writers of all time. Really, look at Kishi's original idea for this series. A manga about a kid eating ramen. Seriously? If not for his first editor, this series would've tanked on day one.  I'm guessing Kishimto had the most creative control throughout the final third of the manga, hence why the final third (everything post-Pein arc) is garbage. I do sincerely believe NaruSaku was intended, just not by Kishi himself, but whoever was editing throughout the first 2/3 of the manga. Kishi was entertaining stupid ideas like making Hinata the heroine, but got shut down on such idiocy time and time again. Pre-LOI arc Sakura would never make a fake confession to Naruto. Pre-LOI Naruto would never say stupid crap like wanting to die with Sasuke.

 

By the way, Dummymoto, the reason Sakura wasn't that popular is because you constantly shat on her character. There's nothing redeeming about a mere fangirl and that's all Sakura is throughout most of the manga. I suspect your first editor's solution to this was to . . . you know . . . develop Sakura's character and gradually have her grow up, become more competent and fall in love with Naruto. Shame you were too caught up with your Sasuke wish fulfillment fantasies throughout most of the series. Might've been able to tell a good story as opposed to having to talk about how much you like Hinata's bewbs like some mindless basement dwelling otaku. If that's your idea of romance, I feel sorry for your wife.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 19 December 2014 - 08:04 AM.

[Nar123]

I dunno guys. Kishi is really laying it thick with the Pro-Hinata comments. I think he may very well telling the truth, therefore making him one of the worst manga writers of all time. Really, look at Kishi's original idea for this series. A manga about a kid eating ramen. Seriously? If not for his first editor, this series would've tanked on day one.  I'm guessing Kishimto had the most creative control throughout the final third of the manga, hence why the final third (everything post-Pein arc) is garbage. I do sincerely believe NaruSaku was intended, just not by Kishi himself, but whoever was editing throughout the first 2/3 of the manga. Kishi was entertaining stupid ideas like making Hinata the heroine, but got shut down on such idiocy time and time again. Pre-LOI arc Sakura would never make a fake confession to Naruto. Pre-LOI Naruto would never say stupid crap like wanting to die with Sasuke.

 

By the way, Dummymoto, the reason Sakura wasn't that popular is because you constantly shat on her character. There's nothing redeeming about a mere fangirl and that's all Sakura is throughout most of the manga. I suspect your first editor's solution to this was to . . . you know . . . develop Sakura's character and gradually have her grow up, become more competent and fall in love with Naruto. Shame you were too caught up with your Sasuke wish fulfillment fantasies throughout most of the series. Might've been able to tell a good story as opposed to having to talk about how much you like Hinata's bewbs like some mindless basement dwelling otaku. If that's your idea of romance, I feel sorry for your wife.

 

The bolded part man...took the words right of my mouth

[Phantom_999]

Regardless I don't forgive the ending. I'm just not blaming anyone anymore but I'm done with this s**t of a series.

[Nostradamus]

I don't believe in kishimoto.

Neither do I.

I don't believe or have faith in Kishi or the company he works for or SP.

After what they did they should never be forgiven or forgotten. I'm just saying that we should at least give him the benefit of the doubt.

Again I'm not saying this because I've became a Kishi defender because I'm not.

It's just that we don't really know who f**cked up here. Who was the one really in charge.

 

 

Kishimoto just didn't care anymore, I think this was obvious when you notice how this last arc turned out, my guess is around 2010 kishimoto still cared for his work, I mean he
expressed in interviews the desire to make Sakura more heroine like and the fact that he was bothered by people constantly coming up to him and saying "hinata, hinata, hinata".
 
I think somewhere along 2011 - 2014 ( might be related to his father death) he just didn't care anymore, he got tired of doing Naruto week and week over again ( You can even notice because the art got really bad sometimes during the war) and threw the rest of the story at the hands of SP/SJ  basically transforming himself in their puppet.
 
I'm not absolving him of his faults though, ultimately Naruto was his story and as the author kishimoto had the last say so he  actually could and had the means to end the story in a conclusive way. Unfortunately kishi let his greediness and apathy get in the way of a otherwise good story.
 
So yeah, this is my opinion regarding what happened, i can understand where are you coming from OP but sincerely i just don't think KIshi cares anymore so i don't agree that he was forced to make this piece of kitten we call ending. I genuinelly think he decided on NS back at the beginning of part 2 (not NH) otherwise why would Naruto and Sakura have so many moments together while Hinata clearly side lined? I think NS was going to be endgame until kishi stopped caring, giving free reigns to SP and SJ to turn the story towards popularity and their own bias rather than cohesive and logical progression

Maybe he just didn't care anymore and he let SP/SJ do whatever they wanted. Truth is I don't know. If I had to guess my money is on SP. They are the ones that love Hinata so much and will do anything to make her shine brighter than all the rest.

 

 

The thing about Neji is that he died to give validity to a pairing, he died so Hinata could somehow get closer to Naruto. Wtf, was there no other means to Kishimoto to do this?
His death didn't had the same sense of impact that jiraiya and Itachi deaths had, it was sudden and goes against the main theme of the series. Hell if neji was meant it would be better to let him die after the fight with kidomaru

Yeah but he died and even that didn't bring Hinata and Naruto closer. Two years passed and nothing changed between those two. It took the destruction of the entire story for them to actually get together. Coming out and saying that he killed Neji for NH is stupid, not just because it is it's also because it didn't do anything for those two.

 

Naruto and Hinata's kid makes no sense...I thought if Naruto had a son or daughter, he would devote his entire time to them...but seeing as how it is...a neglected child seeking acknowledgement from his father, and his father tells him not to be a wimp and tough it out, unable to see himself in his own son.

Is kind of sad.

 

 

To me, this whole story kind of killed manga for me, at least the big ones, since it looks so easy to destroy a good story for corporate interests.

The way he treats his own son pisses me off so much. They completely butchered Naruto changing him just so they can have part 3.

The story ended at 698 the rest is just garbage that's not even based on the previous 698 chapters.

The "Naruto" from the rest is someone else that just has his name. The real Naruto still exists in the last 698 chapters along with everyone else that got changed in this "finale".

Edited by Nostradamus, 19 December 2014 - 11:03 PM.

[Miss Soupy]

I think the one part of this argument that kind of falls apart is the idea that Kishi was forced (by Jump or SP) to do NH for the western fans. Naruto is one of the best selling manga, and I just looked up an article hinting at the difference of sales between Japan and everyone else.

 

http://www.animenews...orldwide/.80771

 

Japan still sells nearly double the amount of the rest of the world combined. That means from a business perspective, I think the number one target audience is still Japan, not the western fans. Japan has the most merchandise, the most advertising, more people buying physical copies rather than pirating. That's why they end up making musicals and things for fans to go to, while no one else does. It's a bigger deal there. Those are the fans Jump and SP are most conscious of.

 

Kishimoto being bad at interviews...is that really a new phenomenon? In how many interviews did he really give correct information? How many times did we get 'This is the year of ___' only to never have that character appear? Kishi just seems really really bad at interviews.

 

On the point that Kishi is saying bad things to alienate the fans...does that mean SP is also doing that purposefully? They made a movie surrounding a shoujo love story when the manga is supposed to be a shounen. They falsely advertised Sasuke and Kakashi being involved when they weren't. I mean...is that really all in an effort to alienate fans on purpose? If so, why? Honestly, it all simply looks like they were trying to get away with last minute development on a pairing that had nothing to stand on. They tried to make it believable, but it was a failure. All they really want, though, is to prepare for the next generation.

 

Kishi probably didn't care about the end pairings enough to stop them - and that is selling out on your story.

[Aizen-Sama]

Kishimoto's a grown man. He wasn't "forced" to make the ending; he chose to either through pressure or because he truly thought it was the right choice. We know he's wrong on both counts but that doesn't change the fact that he drew and wrote the chapter. If he really was being forced to make an ending to his 15-year manga that he didn't want he could've taken the case to court or found a new publisher.
I'm sorry I just can't give this man excuses anymore. He had complete control over his own manga's ending and is responsible for allowing it to turn out that way.

[Tendo Ryuken]

The thing about Neji is that he died to give validity to a pairing, he died so Hinata could somehow get closer to Naruto. Wtf, was there no other means to Kishimoto to do this?
His death didn't had the same sense of impact that jiraiya and Itachi deaths had, it was sudden and goes against the main theme of the series. Hell if neji was meant it would be better to let him die after the fight with kidomaru

 

sry for late response.

 

actually neji's death has strong impact on naruto's development. and it doest go against the main theme of the series. Naruto just made a declaration he wouldnt let any of his comrade die right before this event. and after that, he recalled everyone who died for him before. just like pain invasion made naruto understand 'revenge' and sasuke better, neji's death also made him understand his bond with everyone and the bond everyone felt with him.

 

the main problem actually is kishi's interview in general, not only regarding this matter. but everyone seems want to ask him a lot of things, again and again. audience's interpretation is a big part of a fiction, yet ppls wanted to hear everything directly from the author's mouth. kishimoto-sensei is a mangaka, not a storyteller

[ThroughWithLove]

Kishimoto's a grown man. He wasn't "forced" to make the ending; he chose to either through pressure or because he truly thought it was the right choice. We know he's wrong on both counts but that doesn't change the fact that he drew and wrote the chapter. If he really was being forced to make an ending to his 15-year manga that he didn't want he could've taken the case to court or found a new publisher.
I'm sorry I just can't give this man excuses anymore. He had complete control over his own manga's ending and is responsible for allowing it to turn out that way.

 

He also wouldn't be parading around making all of these Pro-NaruHina comments or telling us crap like him wanting to make Hinata the heroine, basically rubbing salt in an open wound. Kishi wanted this ending; that much is clear. We can't even blame SP, considering how many NaruSaku filler moments they gave us over the years, EVEN AFTER The Last went into production.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 21 December 2014 - 06:14 PM.

[Nar123]

 
sry for late response.
 
actually neji's death has strong impact on naruto's development. and it doest go against the main theme of the series. Naruto just made a declaration he wouldnt let any of his comrade die right before this event. and after that, he recalled everyone who died for him before. just like pain invasion made naruto understand 'revenge' and sasuke better, neji's death also made him understand his bond with everyone and the bond everyone felt with him.
 
the main problem actually is kishi's interview in general, not only regarding this matter. but everyone seems want to ask him a lot of things, again and again. audience's interpretation is a big part of a fiction, yet ppls wanted to hear everything directly from the author's mouth. kishimoto-sensei is a mangaka, not a storyteller

The theme im talking about is the whole destiny thing, ultimately neji was destined to die for a main!Hyuuga and this was exactly what he did :/
Thats why it would be better if neji died a the fight vs kidomaru


Another stab at the destiny theme was Naruto turning into some kind of kid of prophecy

[Aizen-Sama]

 
He also wouldn't be parading around making all of these Pro-NaruHina comments or telling us crap like him wanting to make Hinata the heroine, basically rubbing salt in an open wound. Kishi wanted this ending; that much is clear. We can't even blame SP, considering how many NaruSaku filler moments they gave us over the years, EVEN AFTER The Last went into production.

Kishimoto could have even threatened to take copyrights away from Pierrot Studio if they kept favoring Hinata over his main heroine (Sakura).
Kishi had the power. He just didn't care. Money and marketing business came first.

Edited by Aizen-Sama, 12 May 2015 - 07:14 AM.