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#1 NarutoxSakuraFan4Life

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:44 PM

Lately I have been seeing NaruSaku fans losing hope in NaruSaku, some abandoning the ship all together. Because of recent chapter 627, Sasuke redeeming himself, chapter 615, the hand holding between Naruto and Hinata, and the latest cover for volume 64, people have been thinking that Kishimoto is under the influence of the fans/editors. I honestly think Kishimoto is better than that, I don't think that just because there are more NaruHina/SasuSaku fans that Kishimoto is going to make NaruHina and SasuSaku happen. Here's why:

1. All the development he made between Naruto and Sakura would have been a complete waste of time on his part. He would have just developed Naruto and Sakura's relationship just to amuse us and just for fun. NaruHina lacks development in every area; in romance, it's a one sided love on Hinata's part, (I honestly think she just admires Naruto.) interaction, outside the battlefield and near death situations, they haven't interacted much, acknowledgement of the other person, Naruto and Hinata don't know each others hopes, dreams, etc.
Same goes for SasuSaku. If he made NaruHina/SasuSaku, two couples that lack development, happen after developing Naruto and Sakura's relationship so much, that would be poor writing and again a huge waste of time.

2. It would complete mess up Naruto's character. His nindo, is to never give up or go back on his word, so if were to settle for Hinata, someone he doesn't really know or even love, he would just be giving up on Sakura. That would be out of his character.
Plus, (this is extra) Naruto feelings for Sakura would pretty much be a lie. Naruto's feelings for Sakura that were emphasized so much throughout the story would've be a false. Again, this would be poor writing.

3. Kishimoto is building/has built up Sasuke and Karin's relationship. Sasuke seems to feel something for Karin. He apologized for her for crying out loud, and how often do we see Sasuke apologizing to ANYONE? Very little times.

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Plus past times in the manga it has been shown that Sasuke cares about Karin and her well being. That, and he seems to get nervous around her when she's close to him. Why would he (Kishi) draw Sasuke looking like he did in 627? Sasuke and Karin's relationship just seems to be that close. And finally why would Kishimoto again emphasize Karin's feels for Sasuke again, even after he stabbed her? Why would have taken the time to do that, develop Sasuke and Karin's relationship?

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4. Sakura and her feelings for Naruto they have been emphasized throughout the manga too. It has been emphasized in her actions, her words, and others have spoken about her feelings toward Naruto. Why would Kishimoto have done that? If she were intended for Sasuke and Naruto for Hinata?
In chapter 615, there is a panel where it's just Sakura looking surprised/shocked. She had already reacted Neji's death, she was reacting to what Hinata did to Naruto. Was she surprised about Hinata slapping Naruto or was she surprised/jealous about her having physical contact with Naruto? Me? I'm of course leaning towards second choice.

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This isn't the only time she has looked upset when Hinata was involved with Naruto. At the end of the Pein arc. as she was healing Hinata, she looked upset (pretty much) finding out Hinata loved Naruto. Why would she look upset that Hinata loves Naruto if Sakura loves Sasuke?

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5. (Extra: Opinion:) If Kishimoto were wanting to please any audience it would have to be his Japanese audience, he would be concerned on what his fans in Japan thought. I'm not saying that the American and other countries audiences aren't important, but I'm saying that his Japanese audience would be his top priority audience to please on his list. We would be secondary. (There are more NaruSaku fans in Japan, than NaruHina fans, so that would be a plus for us. You can tell they are passionate about the couple considering they have a whole event for them! XD)

So in conclusion, I think that Kishimoto is not under the influence of the NaruHina/SasuSaku fans or his editors. I think he is doing his own thing and is writing his own way. I mean if he pulled a 360 and switched all around, what would that be saying for him as a writer/mangaka?
I firmly believe NaruSaku and SasuKarin will be the endgame couples, Kishimoto loves his work way too much to fall for the influence of his fans.

Anyway, what are you guys thoughts? Do you think Kishimoto under the influence of his fans/editors?

(Sorry if something like this was posted already.)

Edited by NarutoxSakuraFan4Life, 19 April 2013 - 08:06 PM.


#2 Dkey

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:00 PM

If Kishimoto was under the influence of fandom/editors then probably that would be recently. Meaning that something happened and we only see it the manga. But let's assume he didn't and he still has control over his stories.

Thou once editors were the guys who sometimes had to tell the writer: Dude your story is going crazy, or Watch out this things make no sense but right now it isn't really the case anymore. It's either let the author do what he wants or the exact opposite.

Anyway, the things he did with the hand holding regarding Hinata, with Sakura's feelings for Sasuke, with Sasuke choosing to fight with Naruto aren't things that just came out of nowhere. The only thing he did cause is stir up the fandoms by choosing to expand on this issues. As for the SS/NH things they were included from the start. A conflict between SS and NS started from the very beginning but then NH showed up and that's because he wanted it to show up. If Hinata's love for Naruto didn't exist we wouldn't really have all this outlandish theories regarding her character, thou most of the blame is on the fandom not Kishi. All the fans want to see how the story goes, how it will end. But it can't end if all this things aren't expanded upon.

Yes, we speculate that NH development died with 616 but we are going to have to wait for Kishi to give us more proof of that.

Now for the SS/NS conflict may not find a resolution during this arc but we are going to see more of it. And we will see where Sakura stands regarding her feelings. Thou that can be dragged all the way to the end unfortunately.



#3 kirabook

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 10:03 PM

The point is, while all that may be true (the build up, hints at character relation, the complete illogicality of other pairings), Kishi has shown to me that he doesn't know what he's doing. He thinks these 'plot twists' makes people excited because they're looking forward to the outcome, but he doesn't realize he's alienating some of his fanbase that finds these plot twists TOO plot twisting TOO late in the game.

Everything is becoming so sudden and makes little sense in the big scheme of things. He thinks it's a great plot twist, I think it's a big inconsistency.

That's where my mistrust in Kishi's recent writing lies. It has little to do with pairings, even if Naruto and Sakura suddenly starting making out mid battle, wouldn't you think something is wrong? Don't you feel that Sasuke's sudden switch to 'protecting Konoha' only NOW after knowing for a while what Itachi wanted is a little strange? Hinata's hand holding was already foreshadowed so I don't particularly care about it (but still, I find it pretty stupid to give her THAT moment in THE battle of their lifetime)

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#4 Atheck

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 10:34 PM

As far as I am concerned Kishi had completely deviated from his story's original implications as far back as the introduction of the "child of prophecy" rhetoric with Naruto and his accedence despite the previous emphasis of his character in P1 being the repudiation of such previously frivolous concepts whilst striving to forge his own destiny. Now some might disagree with that notion but it's what I've personally been interpreting with recent developments like Izanami's purpose of someone accepting their fate, the "destiny of hatred", and child of prophecy concept. Going back and rereading P1 makes me realize how different it's all become.

As for the issue with Sakura, the notion of Kishi having capitulated his original intentions in order to appeal to the NH hysteria that exists in Western nations, particularly the US, is a valid concern but someone else brought up an interesting point of Kishi wanting to listen to his Japanese fanbase primarily and addressing their concerns. Of course any author, regardless of genre, I believe, should at least listen to the opinions of all or most of their fans but in this particular instance it would be detrimental if he relented to the demands of a segment of the Naruto reading population who are all more concerned with seeing their favoured character achieve some distorted concept of happiness that is wrought with tunnel vision, inconsistencies, and resentment towards those (Sakura) who actually have the greatest amount of legitimacy for being with Naruto instead of allowing the author to maintain the consistency of characters' romantic relationship subplot. This is one of those conflicts that I'm grateful Kishi lacks much access to the worldwide social media or communication with those outside of Japan in general (usually).

Mind you, the pairing relations is just one dynamic in this chaotic entanglement that Kishi has plunged us into ever since the confessions from both Sakura and Hinata.

Edited by Atheck, 19 April 2013 - 10:36 PM.


#5 Codus N

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:06 PM

QUOTE (Atheck @ Apr 20 2013, 05:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As far as I am concerned Kishi had completely deviated from his story's original implications as far back as the introduction of the "child of prophecy" rhetoric with Naruto and his accedence despite the previous emphasis of his character in P1 being the repudiation of such previously frivolous concepts whilst striving to forge his own destiny. Now some might disagree with that notion but it's what I've personally been interpreting with recent developments like Izanami's purpose of someone accepting their fate, the "destiny of hatred", and child of prophecy concept. Going back and rereading P1 makes me realize how different it's all become.

As for the issue with Sakura, the notion of Kishi having capitulated his original intentions in order to appeal to the NH hysteria that exists in Western nations, particularly the US, is a valid concern but someone else brought up an interesting point of Kishi wanting to listen to his Japanese fanbase primarily and addressing their concerns. Of course any author, regardless of genre, I believe, should at least listen to the opinions of all or most of their fans but in this particular instance it would be detrimental if he relented to the demands of a segment of the Naruto reading population who are all more concerned with seeing their favoured character achieve some distorted concept of happiness that is wrought with tunnel vision, inconsistencies, and resentment towards those (Sakura) who actually have the greatest amount of legitimacy for being with Naruto instead of allowing the author to maintain the consistency of characters' romantic relationship subplot. This is one of those conflicts that I'm grateful Kishi lacks much access to the worldwide social media or communication with those outside of Japan in general (usually).

Mind you, the pairing relations is just one dynamic in this chaotic entanglement that Kishi has plunged us into ever since the confessions from both Sakura and Hinata.


Hmm.... not exactly. While yes, P1 was about Naruto forging his own destiny and ignore such frivolous concepts, but if you think about it, had Minato and Kushina lived, would Naruto be where he is now?? the loneliness he felt from his childhood gave him a strong ability to empathize with others. It's Naruto's ability to empathize that makes him the "child of prophecy." This is the key trait to being the "child of prophecy". It's Naruto's empathy towards others that gives him the same kind of charisma Hashirama has. Without it, I doubt he'd be the child of prophecy himself.

Back to my original question, would Naruto have turned out the same had his parents lived?? I doubt it. In fact, it probably would've been Minato who became the child of prophecy.

So I think it still goes in line with P1 in a way.

Another issue I have to address is Sasuke. I believe I'm not the only one that smells Sasuke's recent Heel Face Turn as something straight out of a low-grade fanfiction.

Bolded: It's really amazing how Mashima and Kishi are like foils to each other. Both of them are currently the top mangakas of this generation. Their leading roles have pink and yellow hair. They're also trolls in their own way.

The former has twitter as a way to reach out to fans, the latter doesn't. On one hand, it's a great move for the mangaka to reach out to fans. But when you have a volatile fanbase as Naruto, that's probably not the best idea.

Edited by Codus N, 23 April 2013 - 01:07 PM.

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#6 Phantom_999

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:56 PM

Can't deny the influence editors have over the artist's work though. That said I don't think he os doing it out of some submissive desire to please. He's writing what he wants, I'm sure. Well, 90% sure. heheelq7.png

Edited by Phantom_999, 23 April 2013 - 09:56 PM.


#7 Atheck

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:02 PM

QUOTE (Codus N @ Apr 23 2013, 09:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hmm.... not exactly. While yes, P1 was about Naruto forging his own destiny and ignore such frivolous concepts, but if you think about it, had Minato and Kushina lived, would Naruto be where he is now?? the loneliness he felt from his childhood gave him a strong ability to empathize with others. It's Naruto's ability to empathize that makes him the "child of prophecy." This is the key trait to being the "child of prophecy". It's Naruto's empathy towards others that gives him the same kind of charisma Hashirama has. Without it, I doubt he'd be the child of prophecy himself.


The inquiry now is whether that's merely a byproduct of his prophesized fate or if he's like that because he selected that perspective of his volition. Naruto is an eccentric individual who is capable of changing those around him by simply expressing a physical display of companionability either through assisting them in battle like with Onoki or fighting to prove some ideological point; regardless of the potential illogicality that may exist behind it. I suppose what I am trying to say is whether it's his so called "fate" that forged him into the person that he is or if it's the person he became that forged his prophetic ascendancy to the status of a figurative messiah.

To be perfectly forthright I have preferred if Naruto had been capable of reaching this point without the interferences or introduction of the fatalist prophecies. Him being a child of circumstance who happened to make his way to the top is much more appealing, albeit it's cliche, than the simplistic notion of it being "his destiny" to reach greatness.

QUOTE
Back to my original question, would Naruto have turned out the same had his parents lived??


Well his personality is innate so he would still be impatient and excessively loud but having Minato around could help to instill into him some degree of rationale when it comes to tough situations instead of just rushing away into things without much thought or analysis initially like he used to do. If you are referencing his potential abilities then Naruto would not have Kurama to assist him because remember it was through Kushina's death that he became a jinchuurik in the first place. But having Minato and Kushina around to teach him how to be a proper ninja at a young age alongside Uzumaki sealing techniques, Rasengan, summoning, and possibly even FTG could definitely compensate for the loss to some extent. If Jiraiya was willing then he might even be able to learn SM and so Naruto would easily still be Kage tier without Kurama; not quite as powerful as he is right now in the manga, mind you, but still on par with the likes of the mid to high tier Kage level fighters. I'd personally put him around SM Kabuto's level, maybe a bit higher due to FTG and potential seals.

Now whether Naruto's status alone as a jinchuuriki played a significant part in him being "the child of prophecy" isn't exactly touched upon in great detail but it can be deduced that through Naruto's interactions with other jinchuuriki like KB who befriended Gyuki and Kurama that he was coming into his own just as the prophecy said as it does relate to the Sot6P. In the end the whole bijuu aspect of the prophecy may not be resolved by Naruto unless he befriended Kurama inside of Kushina but the ideology that Jiraiya and his teachers instilled into him about seeking a means for peace would still be there so that aspect would still exist. And I suppose if he were able to then he could influence Kurama and the other bijuu without having to be one himself by attempting to humanize them.

QUOTE
I doubt it. In fact, it probably would've been Minato who became the child of prophecy.


Who knows how it would play out? I think at one point Jiraiya suggested there possibly being two children of prophecy through Nagato and Naruto. Both father and son could simultaneously receive the mantle potentially although certain aspects of the prophecy like "fighting a boy with powerful eyes" would likely remain exclusive to Naruto since the obvious individual, Sasuke, is part of Naruto's team and affiliated personally with him because of the camaraderie that they share with being on the same team.

QUOTE
So I think it still goes in line with P1 in a way.


Of course it does, destiny Neji was always right. Naruto was "blessed" by being born to a special clan that is loosely related to the Senju plus he has Kurama sealed inside of him which allows him to access exorbitant amounts of chakra that he wouldn't normally possess. Back then you could attribute these circumstances to sheer dumb luck or the grace of plot protection because of Naruto's status as the main character but now Kishi is giving an excuse to justify everything that has happened with Naruto reaching virtual god tier status.

QUOTE
Another issue I have to address is Sasuke. I believe I'm not the only one that smells Sasuke's recent Heel Face Turn as something straight out of a low-grade fanfiction.


You're not the only one but at least it makes a bit more sense than Karin's sudden shift. Sasuke had to have a recount of Hashirama's entire history of relations with the Uchiha and a speech from Itachi before finally turning into a "good guy" (for now).

QUOTE
Bolded: [/b] It's really amazing how Mashima and Kishi are like foils to each other. Both of them are currently the top mangakas of this generation. Their leading roles have pink and yellow hair. They're also trolls in their own way.


I don't even know who that is but I do agree that the parallel between hair colours is an amusing part of the pairing relations.

QUOTE
The former has twitter as a way to reach out to fans, the latter doesn't. On one hand, it's a great move for the mangaka to reach out to fans. But when you have a volatile fanbase as Naruto, that's probably not the best idea.


True, I agree completely.


#8 Codus N

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 04:40 AM

QUOTE (Atheck @ Apr 24 2013, 06:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The inquiry now is whether that's merely a byproduct of his prophesized fate or if he's like that because he selected that perspective of his volition. Naruto is an eccentric individual who is capable of changing those around him by simply expressing a physical display of companionability either through assisting them in battle like with Onoki or fighting to prove some ideological point; regardless of the potential illogicality that may exist behind it. I suppose what I am trying to say is whether it's his so called "fate" that forged him into the person that he is or if it's the person he became that forged his prophetic ascendancy to the status of a figurative messiah.

To be perfectly forthright I have preferred if Naruto had been capable of reaching this point without the interferences or introduction of the fatalist prophecies. Him being a child of circumstance who happened to make his way to the top is much more appealing, albeit it's cliche, than the simplistic notion of it being "his destiny" to reach greatness.


I think it's a little bit of both. You could say that it was his "fate" to be that empathic towards others, but really, it would have to depend on Naruto himself. Naruto could've easily chosen Gaara's path (pre-timeskip) and not become the child of prophecy at all. If I had to put it, he chose that fate for himself. Also, circumstances certainly played a large part in Naruto's ascension. But both scenarios still work well in the larger scope of the story. At least, that's the way I see it.


QUOTE
Who knows how it would play out? I think at one point Jiraiya suggested there possibly being two children of prophecy through Nagato and Naruto. Both father and son could simultaneously receive the mantle potentially although certain aspects of the prophecy like "fighting a boy with powerful eyes" would likely remain exclusive to Naruto since the obvious individual, Sasuke, is part of Naruto's team and affiliated personally with him because of the camaraderie that they share with being on the same team.


Geez.... you just sent me into fanfiction dreamland. Father and son become both the child of prophecies?? DO WANT. wow.png

QUOTE
Of course it does, destiny Neji was always right. Naruto was "blessed" by being born to a special clan that is loosely related to the Senju plus he has Kurama sealed inside of him which allows him to access exorbitant amounts of chakra that he wouldn't normally possess. Back then you could attribute these circumstances to sheer dumb luck or the grace of plot protection because of Naruto's status as the main character but now Kishi is giving an excuse to justify everything that has happened with Naruto reaching virtual god tier status.


I was talking about the theme.... but I agree that it's a bit "convenient" that Naruto is destined to be the Messiah. Like I said before, it still makes sense with the larger scope of the story and Part I itself, but looking at it in hindsight that particular plot thread was probably not needed. But on the other hand, I think it's meant to instill a sense of awe in the readers.

QUOTE
I don't even know who that is but I do agree that the parallel between hair colours is an amusing part of the pairing relations.


You seriously need to read FT. The main pairing over there is much more consistently developed. And it's a hell lot better than Naruto now.


248793.jpg


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#9 gawe

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 04:38 PM

This is what I meant to say. You've gathered it all. Thank you for this writing.

But something draws my attention. The team 7 thing. What happens if NaruSaku & SasuKarin being canon? What will happen to team 7? Not that I care about it. But that I discuss with some SS & NH fans. They say there won't be a mainboy x maingirl pairing AND team 7 won't be together ever again. According to them, Kishimoto said that in an interview. But so-called interviews of him are always urban legends. One doesn't fit another. What do you say?

Edited by gawe, 27 April 2013 - 04:46 PM.

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#10 xxRomanceGirlxx

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 02:31 AM

I actually do think Kishi is swayed by fan demand. Possibly editors, but I'm sure about fan demand. Let me explain why.

I don't think Kishimoto is truly letting the fans corrupt his story. He has his own ideas of things. And the fan demand does not affect the story in what ship is going to be the end pairing. NaruHina won't happen because of fan demand, Kishimoto's more or less ignoring his American follows. Including us and the crazy NaruHina fans on the Western side. Contray to what they want to believe, they don't have Kishi on their side. And if he paid any mind to the Westerners, he wouldn't of killed Itachi; a character in the top 5 most popular in American polls. Kishimoto likely hasn't changed his mind about making NaruSaku canon.

The part where fan demand comes in is the several shipping teases in the War arc that has a obvious lack of NaruSaku so far. SasuKarin, SasuSaku, and they one we've most noticed NaruHina. Kishimoto loves his fans, even the insane ones. So what he's IMO doing is "trying to please everyone" storytelling tactic. Kishimoto feels bad about not making those ships canon and disappointing the fans so what he's doing is giving them something to enjoy until the crushing destruction of it. Pretty much Avatar 2.0 with Zutara vs. Kataang.

The thing Kishimoto is unaware of is the effect he's having on the romantic subplot. Sure, it's good to make things ambigious and keep mystery. But he's purposely skewing and twisting the waters to the point no one really knows what's what. Feeding the NaruHina/SasuSaku fanbase like this is giving them unneccessary hope and making them more cocky. More and more people are shouting NH is canon without looking at the whole picture. And part of me doesn't blame them for thinking this. I know the ships won't happen, but they don't. And in the end, he is gonna piss off several people with his trolling.

It's like waving food in front of a starving individual and then eating it in front of them. You're taunting them with something they can never have and then adding insult to injury by doing the opposite. Maybe I'm just your typical arrogant 'ole NaruSaku fan, but that's what my eyes are seeing with Kishi and the fanbase as of lately. And NaruSaku quality is suffering as a result and not making it as believable.

Kishimoto won't please everyone, there is always going to be fans who are unsatisfied and calling whatever he's doing BS. Given certain parts of the shipping fandoms shoutouts like this won't make the blow softer by any means.

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#11 NaruSakuNo1Fan

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 06:52 AM

Not only that but it'd be kind of cool for Sasuke to marry an Uzumaki- almost solidifying the bonds between himself and Naruto. It kind of reminds me of Hashirama Senju and Mito Uzumaki (how their marriage solidified the clans' peace)


Edited by NaruSakuNo1Fan, 13 July 2014 - 06:54 AM.

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#12 BlazingDynamo

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 02:49 AM

Well Kishi's is just like Sakura/Kushina



#13 NaruSakuNo1Fan

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  • Interests:Naruto (and, by definition, NaruSaku xD), SAO, Kaichou-Wa Maid Sama- USUI ILY, Pokémon, eating, sleeping, Watashi Ni xx Shinasai and a whole ton of other mangas :) I like sitting in bed on the internet, popping bubble wrap, making fart noises, and singing karaoke with my best friend. Basically, I just love being a pale, nerdy, lazy, permanently sleepy, grumpy otaku. :P

    Favorite weird ship?

    Mavis x Laxus. Duh.

Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:06 AM

You seriously need to read FT. The main pairing over there is much more consistently developed. And it's a hell lot better than Naruto now.

 

 

So true. Gruvia ftw!

 

Anyway, just some similarities between Fairy Tail and Naruto:

Both mains have yellow and pink hair

Makarov's expansion is just like Chouji's

Gray=Sasuke (their rivalry), while Juvia=sensible Karin?

In the beginning, Lucy was just like Part1 Sakura (not too powerful, kind of had to rely on powerful teammates) but she become much stronger, like part2 Sakura

 

Can't really think of any more right now... QAQ


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Anji-chan loves NaruSaku <3   :w00t: 

Sharingan is red

Rasengan is blue
If you won't be my valentine I’ll Chidori you~

#14 Uzumaki9000

Uzumaki9000

    Academy Teacher

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  • Interests:Naruto (Series), movies, anime, drawing, reading, writing stories/fanfictions

Posted 04 September 2014 - 02:24 AM

If naruhina and sasusaku become endgame because of the fandom/editors, then this will be Spider Man 3 ALL OVER AGAIN. Why? Because Sam Raimi the director had his own ideas and his own choices of villains to make the movie good. But the Sony producers forced him to put Venom in the movie because of the character has a huge fan base, and Sam Raimi does not like Venom because he "lacks humanity". But what did the Sony producers do? They kept forcing him to put Venom in the movie until he desperately agrees to put him in Spider Man 3. But what happened after that? The movie was a let down.


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#15 BlazingDynamo

BlazingDynamo

    Missing-nin

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 03:08 AM

If naruhina and sasusaku become endgame because of the fandom/editors, then this will be Spider Man 3 ALL OVER AGAIN. Why? Because Sam Raimi the director had his own ideas and his own choices of villains to make the movie good. But the Sony producers forced him to put Venom in the movie because of the character has a huge fan base, and Sam Raimi does not like Venom because he "lacks humanity". But what did the Sony producers do? They kept forcing him to put Venom in the movie until he desperately agrees to put him in Spider Man 3. But what happened after that? The movie was a let down.

Hurray for NH and SS! :th_yeah:






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