18 replies to this topic

[CloudMountainJuror]

What if the bell training alluded to future events? Think about it. Two allowed to roam free, while one is tied to a stump, immobilized, and suffering due to a lack of satisfaction (in the literal case, hunger).

Currently, Naruto and Sakura are free-minded almost while Sasuke is emotionally compromised, "tied to the stump" with an insatiable hunger.

What do you think? Am I probably just picking at straws here, or does it make some sense?

[Dragunov]

What if the bell training alluded to future events? Think about it. Two allowed to roam free, while one is tied to a stump, immobilized, and suffering due to a lack of satisfaction (in the literal case, hunger).

Currently, Naruto and Sakura are free-minded almost while Sasuke is emotionally compromised, "tied to the stump" with an insatiable hunger.

What do you think? Am I probably just picking at straws here, or does it make some sense?

You know, that makes some sense, with them trying to help him and everything.

[No WhereMan]

Granted Naruto was the one tied to the stump, not Sasuke.

[CloudMountainJuror]

You know, that makes some sense, with them trying to help him and everything.

Yeah, only Naruto's and Sasuke's positions are reversed. Whereas Sasuke was trying to directly help Naruto at first (feeding him voluntarily), Naruto has been trying to directly help Sasuke recently.

Maybe it's meant to further compare and contrast the two? How much one has grown, and how far the other has fallen?

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 11 April 2012 - 04:13 AM.

[No WhereMan]

Or maybe it was just an example for Kishi to explain the value of friendship and duty in the ninja world.

[Fenris]

Hmm I agree with dragon, that does make sense. ^^
Always thought the bell training had some sort of foreshadowing to it

[merryGOflava]

hey?

remember what kakashi said to sakura during the bell test "kill naruto or sasuke dies" (when he said sometimes you will have to make tough decisions as a ninja) it reminded me of konan, nagato and yahiko

how nagato had to kill yahiko or konan would have died.....

do you think team 7 will have to go through that?

[Darth Krypt]

Like nowhere man said, it the basic concept of team bonds and trying to help a teammate in need. Not foreshadowing exactly. Foreshadowing involves specific hints, not generic ideas.

[Paptala]

I'm not sure about the particular scenario, but I strongly believe that the advice Kakashi gave each Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke are strong foreshadowing.

To Sakura: "Instead of Naruto, who was right next to you, you were only thinking about Sasuke, who was far away."
To Naruto: "Naruto, you were just running around by yourself!"
To Sasuke: "You just assumed the others would get in your way, and tried to do everything by yourself"

Not only are the individual messages incredibly poignant to the situations the characters now or just recently found themselves in, the order that they received the information is important too.

If she didn't already after Sai's talk with her about Naruto's feelings, and Shikamaru's subsequent message/request regarding Sasuke, Sakura will be/was the first to take to heart what Kakashi was telling her that she needed to do. Not only is it important to Sakura in the broad sense (help those in your reach first, and then worry about the one's further out afterwards// don't turn a blind eye to those around you to focus on someone far away), its important specifically plot wise -- if Sakura has to choose, she will make the decision to help Naruto over Sasuke (imo).

Naruto will be the next one to take to heart his lesson, that's he's heard already over and over - he does not have to, and CANNOT, do everything on his own -- it is okay and necessary to rely on others -- he does not have to take everything onto his own shoulders, and he can't. It's just like Itachi was telling him recently, and is further being hammered in by the reinforcements on their way to help Naruto now.

Sasuke will be the last one to learn his lesson -- that team mates and bonds aren't burdens that will just get in his way - they can help him. They can save him.

[Anguyen92]

I'm not sure about the particular scenario, but I strongly believe that the advice Kakashi gave each Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke are strong foreshadowing.

To Sakura: "Instead of Naruto, who was right next to you, you were only thinking about Sasuke, who was far away."
To Naruto: "Naruto, you were just running around by yourself!"
To Sasuke: "You just assumed the others would get in your way, and tried to do everything by yourself"

Not only are the individual messages incredibly poignant to the situations the characters now or just recently found themselves in, the order that they received the information is important too.

If she didn't already after Sai's talk with her about Naruto's feelings, and Shikamaru's subsequent message/request regarding Sasuke, Sakura will be/was the first to take to heart what Kakashi was telling her that she needed to do. Not only is it important to Sakura in the broad sense (help those in your reach first, and then worry about the one's further out afterwards// don't turn a blind eye to those around you to focus on someone far away), its important specifically plot wise -- if Sakura has to choose, she will make the decision to help Naruto over Sasuke (imo).

Naruto will be the next one to take to heart his lesson, that's he's heard already over and over - he does not have to, and CANNOT, do everything on his own -- it is okay and necessary to rely on others -- he does not have to take everything onto his own shoulders, and he can't. It's just like Itachi was telling him recently, and is further being hammered in by the reinforcements on their way to help Naruto now.

Sasuke will be the last one to learn his lesson -- that team mates and bonds aren't burdens that will just get in his way - they can help him. They can save him.

I agree with everything, there. Boy, that is pretty haunting foreshadowing when you think about it in hindsight, and that bolded is for sure going to be the opposite in this period of time. Its good that the Naruto and Sakura parts are showing signs of proving those thoughts wrong. Shows how much they are growing as characters and people. Also, I'm sure that the Sasuke part is going to join them as well, eventually. Boy, I wonder what Kishi's thoughts were when he put those remarks in the series?

Edited by Anguyen92, 21 April 2012 - 11:32 PM.

[Super Boom]

I'm not sure about the particular scenario, but I strongly believe that the advice Kakashi gave each Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke are strong foreshadowing.

To Sakura: "Instead of Naruto, who was right next to you, you were only thinking about Sasuke, who was far away."
To Naruto: "Naruto, you were just running around by yourself!"
To Sasuke: "You just assumed the others would get in your way, and tried to do everything by yourself"

Not only are the individual messages incredibly poignant to the situations the characters now or just recently found themselves in, the order that they received the information is important too.

If she didn't already after Sai's talk with her about Naruto's feelings, and Shikamaru's subsequent message/request regarding Sasuke, Sakura will be/was the first to take to heart what Kakashi was telling her that she needed to do. Not only is it important to Sakura in the broad sense (help those in your reach first, and then worry about the one's further out afterwards// don't turn a blind eye to those around you to focus on someone far away), its important specifically plot wise -- if Sakura has to choose, she will make the decision to help Naruto over Sasuke (imo).

Naruto will be the next one to take to heart his lesson, that's he's heard already over and over - he does not have to, and CANNOT, do everything on his own -- it is okay and necessary to rely on others -- he does not have to take everything onto his own shoulders, and he can't. It's just like Itachi was telling him recently, and is further being hammered in by the reinforcements on their way to help Naruto now.

Sasuke will be the last one to learn his lesson -- that team mates and bonds aren't burdens that will just get in his way - they can help him. They can save him.

Hurray! You're back! I missed reading your awesome posts.

But yeah, I guess I never actually thought about Kakashi's advice in that light before. His lesson to Naruto and Sasuke definitely seems to get reinforced on multiple occasions, so it only makes sense that what he told Sakura would be important as well. And in retrospect, the line itself seems pretty similar to part of her Iron Country Confession.

Anyways, as to the OP question, I'm not sure if the stump scene itself was foreshadowing, but I could sort of see Naruto and Sasuke's situations being reversed at the end. Like, Naruto started with nothing, grew closer to people, and eventually gained the trust of the whole Ninja World. Sasuke started off with everything, lost it all, and tried to cut the few bonds he was able to form. So I guess I could sort of see the role of Naruto being tied to the stump being reversed to Sasuke, to some extent.

Edited by Boom...Winning, 22 April 2012 - 02:50 AM.

[merryGOflava]

I'm not sure about the particular scenario, but I strongly believe that the advice Kakashi gave each Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke are strong foreshadowing.

To Sakura: "Instead of Naruto, who was right next to you, you were only thinking about Sasuke, who was far away."
To Naruto: "Naruto, you were just running around by yourself!"
To Sasuke: "You just assumed the others would get in your way, and tried to do everything by yourself"

Not only are the individual messages incredibly poignant to the situations the characters now or just recently found themselves in, the order that they received the information is important too.

If she didn't already after Sai's talk with her about Naruto's feelings, and Shikamaru's subsequent message/request regarding Sasuke, Sakura will be/was the first to take to heart what Kakashi was telling her that she needed to do. Not only is it important to Sakura in the broad sense (help those in your reach first, and then worry about the one's further out afterwards// don't turn a blind eye to those around you to focus on someone far away), its important specifically plot wise -- if Sakura has to choose, she will make the decision to help Naruto over Sasuke (imo).

Naruto will be the next one to take to heart his lesson, that's he's heard already over and over - he does not have to, and CANNOT, do everything on his own -- it is okay and necessary to rely on others -- he does not have to take everything onto his own shoulders, and he can't. It's just like Itachi was telling him recently, and is further being hammered in by the reinforcements on their way to help Naruto now.

Sasuke will be the last one to learn his lesson -- that team mates and bonds aren't burdens that will just get in his way - they can help him. They can save him.

good observation o_o i forgot kakashi even said that. it makes sense though!

[redragon88]

I'm not sure about the particular scenario, but I strongly believe that the advice Kakashi gave each Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke are strong foreshadowing.

To Sakura: "Instead of Naruto, who was right next to you, you were only thinking about Sasuke, who was far away."
To Naruto: "Naruto, you were just running around by yourself!"
To Sasuke: "You just assumed the others would get in your way, and tried to do everything by yourself"

Not only are the individual messages incredibly poignant to the situations the characters now or just recently found themselves in, the order that they received the information is important too.

If she didn't already after Sai's talk with her about Naruto's feelings, and Shikamaru's subsequent message/request regarding Sasuke, Sakura will be/was the first to take to heart what Kakashi was telling her that she needed to do. Not only is it important to Sakura in the broad sense (help those in your reach first, and then worry about the one's further out afterwards// don't turn a blind eye to those around you to focus on someone far away), its important specifically plot wise -- if Sakura has to choose, she will make the decision to help Naruto over Sasuke (imo).

Naruto will be the next one to take to heart his lesson, that's he's heard already over and over - he does not have to, and CANNOT, do everything on his own -- it is okay and necessary to rely on others -- he does not have to take everything onto his own shoulders, and he can't. It's just like Itachi was telling him recently, and is further being hammered in by the reinforcements on their way to help Naruto now.

Sasuke will be the last one to learn his lesson -- that team mates and bonds aren't burdens that will just get in his way - they can help him. They can save him.

Boss post right there.

I'm hoping that when the rookies arrive to help Naruto it shows how much Naruto and Sakura have grown ever since Kakashi reprimanded them. Can you imagine if Kakashi actually has a flashback of when he told them that?

Hopefully we'll get to see Sakura completely determined to defend Naruto in his fight and on the other hand we could see Naruto realizing the importance of having people at your side to have your back. If only we could have Naruto remembering Itachi's advice while looking at Sakura and then the rest of his friends.

Naruto remembering Itachi's word, "It's because your father had Kushina (show panel of Sakura) and all the others (show panel of the rest of his friends) that he became Hokage."

Well, I can dream right?

Edited by redragon88, 22 April 2012 - 04:12 AM.

[Dragunov]

Hmm, ... maybe Naruto dies? Gets his name engraved? Meh.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I'm not sure about the particular scenario, but I strongly believe that the advice Kakashi gave each Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke are strong foreshadowing.

To Sakura: "Instead of Naruto, who was right next to you, you were only thinking about Sasuke, who was far away."
To Naruto: "Naruto, you were just running around by yourself!"
To Sasuke: "You just assumed the others would get in your way, and tried to do everything by yourself"

Not only are the individual messages incredibly poignant to the situations the characters now or just recently found themselves in, the order that they received the information is important told

Sasuke will be the last one to learn his lesson -- that team mates and bonds aren't burdens that will just get in his way - they can help him. They can save him.

I Strongly disagree with you because i think u need to re-read the manga

To:Sasuke "You just assumed the others would get in your way, and tried to do everything by yourself"
Sasuke will be the last one to learn his lesson -- that team mates and bonds aren't burdens that will just get in his way - they can help him. They can save him.

How? during "Haku's battle" sasuke saved naruto blocking her attacks with his body if he wanst learned this lesson he would let naruto die
i do not even need to mention the chuunin exam part 2 and gaara's battle when sasuke tol naruto to pick up sakura and flee because he was going to sacrifice himself so the difference here is that sasuke abandoned those principles and choose a path that he must walk alone

Naruto and Sakura learned those lessons and accepted them
Sasuke learned his lessos too but later he abandoned this

Edited by dovahkiin, 19 May 2012 - 03:14 PM.

[kirabook]

I Strongly disagree with you because i think u need to re-read the manga

To:Sasuke "You just assumed the others would get in your way, and tried to do everything by yourself"
Sasuke will be the last one to learn his lesson -- that team mates and bonds aren't burdens that will just get in his way - they can help him. They can save him.

How? during "Haku's battle" sasuke saved naruto blocking her attacks with his body if he wanst learned this lesson he would let naruto die
i do not even need to mention the chuunin exam part 2 and gaara's battle when sasuke tol naruto to pick up sakura and flee because he was going to sacrifice himself so the difference here is that sasuke abandoned those principles and choose a path that he must walk alone

Naruto and Sakura learned those lessons and accepted them
Sasuke learned his lessos too but later he abandoned this

He obviously did not truly learn that lesson and believe it with his heart if he abandoned his friends in the end because he felt they weren't strong enough and even to this day believes they do nothing but get in his way. He even thought that of his newer team in the end.

He won't truly learn his lesson until he actually follows it and corrects his behavior.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

He obviously did not truly learn that lesson and believe it with his heart if he abandoned his friends in the end because he felt they weren't strong enough and even to this day believes they do nothing but get in his way. He even thought that of his newer team in the end.

He won't truly learn his lesson until he actually follows it and corrects his behavior.

he learned when he were good but he had things like revenge and his hatred then he abandoned this lesson and everything he had to pursue his objectives

[kirabook]

Which means the lesson wasn't truly learned since he deemed the lesson worthless. If you learned a lesson, that means you never purposely make the same mistake again. He did make the mistake again, over and over and over. Lesson not learned.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Which means the lesson wasn't truly learned since he deemed the lesson worthless. If you learned a lesson, that means you never purposely make the same mistake again. He did make the mistake again, over and over and over. Lesson not learned.

buddy he learned that lesson but he give up this because his revenge was more important or do u think what he did in the classic was for nothing?