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The Swastika: A Symbol of Goodness or Hate?


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#1 MagusKyros

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 07:44 PM

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When Hitler began using the swastika as the symbol for his Nazi party in the 1920s, he brought about the death not only of thousands of innocent people, but also of an innocent symbol. His use of the beloved Hindu religious sign instilled so much hate for it in the Western world that I wonder if its true meaning will ever be reclaimed.

It certainly doesn’t seem like something that will happen any time soon. When Israeli-American researcher Avrahaum Segol was playing around with Google Earth’s online satellite imaging tools in March 2008, he noticed that the Wesley Acres Methodist retirement home in Alabama looked like a swastika from the air and immediately went up in arms. Although the old-folks’ home had already spent $1 million on a design modification after complaints from a US senator, that obviously wasn’t enough – now it’ll be forced to fork up more cash and make a second attempt to disguise its shape.
It seems Mr. Segol spends a lot of time on Google Earth, because he’s the same guy who back in 2007 pointed out that a US Naval Base in San Diego, California also looks like a swastika from the air. He called the Alabama retirement home its “sister swastika,” and said that they were both part of a tangled, government-funded conspiracy to honor Nazis.

John Mock, the architect who designed the buildings back in the 1960s, called the allegations ridiculous. “There was no malicious intent,” he told CNN in 2007. “It’s four L-shaped buildings – and whether you look from the ground or the air, it still is.”

But that didn’t stop the Navy from spending about $600,000 to alter the building. When asked about the decision, Morris Casuto, the Anti-Defamation League's Regional Director in San Diego, said, “It doesn’t make any sense that a building on government property would be built in the shape of one of the most hated symbols in human history.”

Wow. Okay, while that’s harsh, maybe it’s to be expected that the government wouldn’t want such public buildings to have any chance of being associated with the Nazis. But surely everyone knows that the swastika is a sacred symbol in India, and that a Hindu’s use of it is religious and perfectly innocent, right?

Wrong.

In November 1998 Devinder Paul Kaushal, a devout Hindu from New Delhi, found his employment of over twelve years at Chicago’s Hyatt Regency hotel terminated after he used window cleaner to spray a swastika on a mirror he was cleaning. The image was immediately wiped away, but Kaushal's co-workers were taken aback, and complained. Kaushal made efforts to explain to his seniors that in his religion the swastika is a prevalent image associated with auspiciousness. But they were not convinced. He was asked to resign, and when he didn’t, was fired days later.

Speaking to Hinduism today, Kaushal said he had no knowledge of how deep the revulsion for the swastika runs in the West: “I did not mean to offend anybody. Now that I have learned more about it, I do feel sorry for the holocaust victims. But people should also be aware that this is our religious symbol. We Hindus have been using it long before anybody else. It is very hard for me to get this through to the public.”

Kaushal attempted to sue the hotel giant for religious discrimination, seeking reinstatement, back pay and damages. But amazingly, he failed. An Illinois federal court found that he did not have a right to display a swastika as an accommodation for his religious practices, stating, “The swastika is so offensive to so many people that its public display…with the sanction of management is unthinkable.”

The swastika may be offensive to many people, but it’s probably sacred to far more. And with one billion Hindus, Buddhists and Jains holding it as auspicious, it could hardly be considered “one of the most hated symbols in human history.”

In Hinduism, swastikas are used in conjuction with the elephant God Ganesh and the sacred om to remove obstacles and bring auspiciousness – at religious rites, as well as house and business openings. In Buddhism, they appear on the chest of some statues of Gautama Buddha, and mark the beginning of many scriptures. And amongst Jains, the swastika is the emblem of the seventh Arhat, or saint – the first of whom was Lord Rishabhadeva, whom the Srimad-Bhagavatam acknowledges as an incarnation of Krishna.

And the swastika doesn’t just predate its Nazi usurpation by a few years – Vaishnava priest Krishna Svarupa tells me that most scholars agree it goes back at least five thousand years, since it is mentioned in the ancient epic Mahabharata.

But the swastika could even be as eternal as God himself. In Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura’s Rupa Cintamani, the Vaishnava scholar writes, “I worship Lord Hari, whose feet are endowed with the nineteen great opulences of, …on the right foot, the eight-pointed star, svastika, wheel, parasol, barleycorn, elephant-goad, flag, thunderbolt, jambu fruit, urdhva-rekha, and lotus.”
It’s not exactly clear what the swastika’s shape signifies. But according to the British archeologist Sir Alexander Cunningham, it is an interlacing of ancient Brahmi characters for the words su, meaning “well,” and asti, meaning “to exist.” Combinined, these create the word swasti, meaning “auspicious.” Both right-facing and left-facing swastikas are used in Hinduism – it’s only the swastika slanted at a forty-five degree angle that is a true Nazi symbol.

Yet it’s when you look further than India that you realize how ridiculous it is that a few years of improper use caused the swastika to be so reviled. Believe it or not, it also has an ancient history in Europe, appearing on artifacts from Indo-European cultures such as the Indo-Aryans, Persians, Hittites, Slavs, Celts and Greeks, among others. Excavations revealed that it was even used by many Native American tribes, especially the Navajo.

In the Western world, the swastika really experienced a resurgence following the archaeological work of Heinrich Schliemann, who in the 19th century discovered it in the site of ancient Troy. Schliemann connected it with similar shapes found on ancient pots in Germany, and in his 1875 book Troy and its Remains he theorized that the swastika was a “significant religious symbol of our remote ancestors,” linking Germanic, Greek and Indo-Iranian cultures.

By the early 20th century, it was widely used worldwide and was regarded as a symbol of good luck and success – all the way up until 1932, when the Nazi association took over.

Amazingly, the swastika is even used in the major western religions. Some Christian churches built in the Romanesque and Gothic eras are decorated with swastikas, where they are used as a hooked version of the cross. Swastikas are also displayed in a mosaic in the St. Sophia church of Kiev, Ukraine, as well as on a tomb in the Basilica of St. Ambrose in Milan. And it may not be a coincidence that the Benedictine choir school at Lambach Abbey, Austria, which Hitler attended for several months as a boy, had a swastika chiseled into the monastery portal.

Only a few years before before Hitler, the swastika was often displayed alongside other major religious symbols. On a stained glass window in a 1929 chapel at the University of Michigan, it appears alongside a Christian cross, Hebrew star and others. And the Yerkes Observatory in Geneva Lake Wisconsin, established in 1897 by the University of Chicago, features ornate decoration including a swastika symbol adjacent to a Star of David.

I know that the effect Hitler’s crimes had against humanity cannot be underestimated. And bigots use the Swastika to promote his agenda even to this day. But with so much history as a symbol of religiosity, goodness and auspiciousness, I would expect people to exercise their better judgement and have some tolerance when they see the swastika being used innocently.

Some steps are being taken – many Hindu groups have fought the good fight to reclaim the swastika from Hitler. In January 2007, for instance, Hindus in the UK, Belgium, Holland and Italy joined forces against a German proposal to ban the display of the swastika across the European Union. During its six-month EU presidency, Germany wanted to make Holocaust denial and the display of Nazi symbols a crime. Yet Hindu leader Ramesh Kallidai of the Hindu Forum of Britain said that while the Nazi implications of the symbol should be condemned, people should respect the Hindu use of the swastika.

“Just because Hitler misused the symbol, abused it and used it to propagate a reign of terror and racism and discrimination, it does not mean that its peaceful use should be banned. That would be equivalent to banning the cross simply because the Klu Klux Klan has used burning crosses.”

The stand worked. At the end of January 2007, Germany issued a statement saying its new anti-racism laws would not include prohibiting “specific symbols such as swastikas.”

It will still be a very long time before people can look at a swastika and not think “Nazi.” But at least there’s a move in the right direction. We may not be able to completely reclaim the swastika, but at least we can create awareness amongst the general public – our friends, our colleagues, etc – as to its true nature.

Om Svasti.


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Just trying to spread the word along. Western academia always talks about the Nazi's and show pictures of the Swastika, but they almost never tell students where the symbol came from, and it brings confusion among people.
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#2 Kyuudaime

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 07:53 PM

I skipped half of it, but from what I got, people confuse the symbol for something it originally did not mean, correct?
If so, people do that, and it's hard to help ignorance.

I know that generally people think the confederate flag is a symbol of "racism," when it's not.
Same thing with the so called "racist" "N" word.

It's sad really.

#3 shadow_Uzumaki

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 08:30 PM

I already knew of the Swastika's dichotomy awhile back, the swastika was once called a Manji in one of the Eastern religions and it was a sign of good luck as it said up there. Even now, I still remind the people who don't know that the shape should be associated with its former meaning, not the Nazi's 'symbol of terror'. However, with Hitler using in everywhere he went, it's going to be a long time until its dark taint is erased and its good symbolism is returned

#4 Dormin

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 09:31 PM

Yeah, Hitler had a sick sanse of humor tongue.gif

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#5 Pite

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 09:54 PM

Actually during WWII, the German Nazis who occupied the Polish mountains saw multiple swasticas and were elated thinking that their influence came into mountains of Poland. Little did they know that swastica was also a popular polish mountaneer cultural symbol.
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Posted 10 January 2009 - 10:01 PM

QUOTE (Kyuudaime @ Jan 10 2009, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know that generally people think the confederate flag is a symbol of "racism," when it's not.
Same thing with the so called "racist" "N" word.

I find that rather hard to believe, and I'm white. The south broke from the union mainly because they would not allow slavery beyond the states where it was already legal (there were other factors, but that was the main reason). The abolitionist movements probably sped that up. I'm not sure what there is to be proud about seceding from the union when race was a big factor.

Same thing with the N word. I have never heard of a white man being called a "n****r", and it only seems to apply to people with dark skin. Not to mention the term was coined from the country Niger in Africa. And so far, all people I've heard of who use the N word use it on all black people/dark-skinned races, regardless of character, as opposed to a couple of other terms one could think of.

A lot of people would argue that blacks use it with each other all the time, but really it's not the same. For one, they don't use exactly the same word (the one they use ends with a, the one white people use end with er), and it's really a case of one group gets to say one thing while others can't. I'd like to see some white person use the N word that ends with er with black people in a friendly manner, just to see the reaction.

Back on topic, yeah, I know the Swastika was originally meant to symbolyzie peace and prosperity. However, in America and Europe, there are still prominent groups with a racist agenda who still use the swastika, and in the western world that's usually what it still symbolizes. I wouldn't be afraid if I saw the symbol in East Asia, but everywhere else it's a glaring sign that I don't want to hang out with you.

#7 Kyuudaime

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 10:20 PM

I'll have to ask my teacher again, which will be on Monday, as I forgot what the confederate flag stands for originally.

The other word, was derived from the latin term negro.
Negro is latin for black.
The definition of a "n****r" is simply an ignorant person, or a person ignorant to the laws of society.
The term was used incorrectly hundreds of years ago, and now it's taken offensively because it was used incorrectly.
I've seen Blacks use it with both endings against each other, which irks me.

Edited by Kyuudaime, 10 January 2009 - 11:36 PM.


#8 Nee-sama

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 10:50 PM

Um, No it was purposefully used as a derogatory offense, the same as we know it now. Slaves were only ignorant because they were forced to be, or because they didn't know the language. Many slaves were NOT ignorant, especially after the second generation, and if they were it was because they were Forced to be. Just be clear, most of them couldn't read but being ignorant and being able to read are not the same. And if they were forced to be ignorant, you would not label them this word without malicious intent because they were to be pitied. I hope you can see the logic in my words, I know I am not always clear in typing. Basically, you wouldn't say "Hey, retard!" to a mental person without knowing you are being an A**hole, right?




Um, on topic about the swastica. I never learned about its origins until recently, actually, when I learned about Neji's symbol. I'm pretty bipartisan on the topic, I think they should have left it on his forehead to be honest. However, I know and love a jewish woman very close to me who is offended by the very sight of a swastica because she has family that was directly affected by the holocaust. It is unfortunate that this religious symbol coveted by Hindu's and whomever else has been so tainted, but the fact remains that there are still moronic white-supremist BIGOTS using this symbol in an effort to advance the war they imagine has continued since Hitler made an effort to rid the world of "inferior" beings.

Edited by Nee-sama, 11 January 2009 - 01:00 AM.

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#9 Illmatic

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 11:06 PM

Confederates didnt want slavery abolished so some are offended by the flag that represented them.

#10 Kyuudaime

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 11:07 PM

The definition of ignorant is: Lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned.
It was deragatory.
Just as I'm ignorant when it comes to... Korean lifestyles, for example.
Just because your ignorant, doesn't mean your stupid, it's two different things.

My point was, people use it incorrectly, especially whites.

Edit: The "bold" was a typo, whoops. Funny that two screw ups on my part made you type that, that's what happens on five hours of sleep.
Sorry!

Edited by Kyuudaime, 10 January 2009 - 11:29 PM.


#11 Nate River

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 12:19 AM

QUOTE (Kodachi Claws @ Jan 10 2009, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Same thing with the N word. I have never heard of a white man being called a "n****r", and it only seems to apply to people with dark skin. Not to mention the term was coined from the country Niger in Africa. And so far, all people I've heard of who use the N word use it on all black people/dark-skinned races, regardless of character, as opposed to a couple of other terms one could think of.

A lot of people would argue that blacks use it with each other all the time, but really it's not the same. For one, they don't use exactly the same word (the one they use ends with a, the one white people use end with er), and it's really a case of one group gets to say one thing while others can't. I'd like to see some white person use the N word that ends with er with black people in a friendly manner, just to see the reaction.


What's the difference between the two other than a matter of speaking style? I've heard many people say it's different, but I've never heard a convincing argument that it is or should be. The NAACP didn't seem to think so a couple of years ago when they tried to "kill" the word.

QUOTE
Confederates didnt want slavery abolished so some are offended by the flag that represented them.


Of course they didn't. Besides the obvious racism component, their economy was completely and utterly and dependent on it. In addition to slavery, the North and the South were often bitterly divided about economic policy. There was the infamous nullification doctrine that they fought over. For obvious slavery is the most cited issue for the civil war, but their dislike of one another went well beyond that.

I don't like it when people fly that flag, but under the First Amendment they have the right to. It doesn't just protect the speech you like to hear.

I'm actually surprised that Illinois ruled that way given what happened in the Sokie case. This is nothing compared to the Nazi's wanting to march through Sokie precisely because of it's Jewish population.

#12 Nick Soapdish

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 12:57 AM

QUOTE (Kyuudaime @ Jan 10 2009, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I skipped half of it, but from what I got, people confuse the symbol for something it originally did not mean, correct?
If so, people do that, and it's hard to help ignorance.

I know that generally people think the confederate flag is a symbol of "racism," when it's not.
Same thing with the so called "racist" "N" word.

It's sad really.


Regarding the N word, a lot of it has to do with past usage. Historically, whites used it almost exclusively on blacks and as a pejorative. I'm not surprised that they saw racial overtones from it. Especially since it was used interchangeably with Negroes at the time.

And I'm one of those people that sees the Confederate battle flag as a symbol of racism.

It's not just because the KKK adopted it as their flag, but if Southerners didn't want to see their symbol of whatever they thought it stood for co-opted they probably should've made a stand then rather than cheer them on. But the South wasn't just about states' rights. They were all for states' rights except when it came to what the Northern states could do about slaves. When it came to slavery, suddenly the Northern states were trying to nullify federal laws and the Southern states were in favor of federalism over all. There was also the argument that they could bring slaves into Northern states for any length of time and that they would remain slaves there, regardless of whether slavery was legal in those states.

Both the North and the South were only for states' rights when it suited them.

Confederate flags made their big comeback during the civil rights movement. To protest the integration of black and white students, state capitols began flying the Confederate flag again. Take a look at the footage or the speeches of the politicians. Most of the anger and bile isn't against the feds.

#13 Kyuudaime

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 01:09 AM

I believe I made it clear that it's used racially against the Black ethnic group negatively, I was merely explaining that it was wrong on how it was used back then and now.

Again, the Confederate flag, I forgot, I'll ask my U.S. history teacher.
I might have heard wrong, but I'll ask again.

#14 roninmedia

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 01:11 AM

If I'm not mistaken, Skokie, Illinois is the largest "village" in the world and has the largest Jewish population in the Western Hemisphere (International Dateline going east to the Prime Meridian) so the uproar was not a total surprise.

Being a Buddhist, I know the original meaning of the symbol. I used to have one hanging from my rearview mirror in the car. This is a whole other topic, but with the way cultures are being opened, a lot of people use things from other cultures without having a good understanding of it.

#15 BlackLightning

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 01:33 AM

This proves that people should learn to stop looking back on the past. Hitler is dead, end of story. I know about the meaning of Swastika despite not an Hinduist or Budhist and I still think they mean well. The fact that Hitler used it for his propaganda, doesn't change the meaning it have for the religion and the cultures.

as for the "N" word, I don;t really care what the real meaning is (if any) its the intent that's important. while I can't wrong the black skinned people for taking offense from it, I can't approve of it either. the word is an insult if you think of it as 1 AKA its all in your head. I still think that its better if the word never to be used anymore, we all know that its pretty much impossible seeing that its already deep rooted in their lifestyle so I guess ignoring them is the best thing to do without going as a big mob and going into riot just so the word can be law-ed against use.


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#16 Kyuudaime

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 01:47 AM

QUOTE (BlackLightning @ Jan 10 2009, 08:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
its the intent that's important.

And it's the intent that's incorrect/wrong/however you want to say it.

Also, doesn't Ichigo's bankai have the Swastika on it? I think it is...

#17 Derock

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 04:44 AM

Neji's Caged Bird symbol on his forehead is the swastika but the anime changed it to an "X" since most people will go crazy about the series...

Anyways, I know that the symbol was used in the wrong way back in high school (or so I assumed, can't remember since it was one of my Holocaust topics) but I didn't grasp the meaning of the symbol til now. Good info.

And let's drop the N word topic. We're talking about the swastika symbol and its original meaning.

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#18 MagusKyros

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 04:46 AM

QUOTE (Kurosaki Ichigo @ Jan 11 2009, 01:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And it's the intent that's incorrect/wrong/however you want to say it.

Also, doesn't Ichigo's bankai have the Swastika on it? I think it is...


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Yep, it does Oo

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Edited by MagusKyros, 11 January 2009 - 04:51 AM.

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#19 krisk

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 06:41 AM

Pfffft, how gross. I think it's pretty dumb that people fear the impression the Swastika (used by Hindu people) will make for others. I have many jewish friends who don't get offended (seriously people, jews aren't made of glass [no pun intended]) and I gotta say it's pretty dumb to be all defensive when you're NOT even jewish. And okay sure, other people were affected BUT it's generally understood that the Jewish were the ones who were hit with the biggest impact, and when people get offended it's usually when they're doing it for someone else. So, yesh, I don't agree that guy who displayed the Swastika in his own time-- for whatever reason-- got fired because they feared he'd be offending someone else. Really. I doubt him spraying it with window washer was gonna burn a Swastika shaped hole into the glass or have it stain forever or something. PSH.

But anyway this topic reminded me of this one-irl situation I experienced back in elementary school. We were all sitting and doing note charts in Music class, when, for some reason or another I felt like being an insufferable know-it-all (or boredom, whatevs) and showed one of my teeny friends something I'd been introduced to recently at home, from my family. I remember I had whispered that and drew the Swastika on my paper and showed him. He wondered what it meant and I was about to tell him -- that was until the teacher came over (how nosy) and gasped when she saw it. She STOPPED everyone's studying, lifted up the paper and showed everyone, saying that we "should never ever draw something like [that]" because it was "very very bad" --

Then she promptly crumbled it up, threw it away, and sent a glare my way and stupid fewahewioafj I had to start over D:.

Gawd, now that I think about it, we were really naive-- we were frightened at how such a small symbol could be "so horrible," how something so inanimate could get people so angry, and man was I embarrassed. D:

come to think of it, I think someone told their parents and she ended up getting introuble; I think she even transferred xDDD

I'm sad to admit that at that age, you'll believe everything you hear-- if the impact is big enough... =/

QUOTE (Derock @ Jan 10 2009, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And let's drop the N word topic. We're talking about the swastika symbol and its original meaning.

Sorries, but I don't agree with dropping that topic. It's very related to the current topic-- that word gives a controversial reminder of slavery to people, just as the Swastika symbol gives a controversial reminder of the Holocaust to people; it's the same context. =/

That said, I really get set off when people who it applies to use it so nonchalantly, but when it's being used by someone it's not directly linked to-- they get all offended. There's no justification; so I agree with Shriner-- I haven't heard a good enough argument on why that's okay yet, and I doubt there will be anytime soon. :/

#20 Cloud

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 07:33 AM

Krisk. I'd imagine your elementary school teacher is a wee bit retarded. The Nazi swastika was an inverted swastika (right? I really don't remember the symbol).

I have a Buddhist protection charm, and it has a swastika on it. My friends saw it and gaped at me. I was like: 'Notice the Chinese characters around it? It's not Nazi.'

They shut up instantly.




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