45 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well...just ignore Stan and only the song.

[ramenanmitsu]

@tricksie

Regarding Sasuke's undeserved rewards, I talked to my sister's husband yesterday and my friend today. They basically said the same thing.

-Naruto is a genius/Sasuke is more of a hard worker
-Naruto had fate going for him/Sasuke had fate going against him
-Naruto is not the "poor guy"/Sasuke is the "poor guy" people sympathizes with
-Naruto had obstacles dodging him/Sasuke dodged obstacles himself
-Naruto wasn't the one who stopped the chain of hatred/Sasuke was the one who prevented war by willingly not attacking Konoha in the final as a revenge of his family
-From these reasons above, the author has intended to send a message through Sasuke, not Naruto
-It's understandable that Sasuke is the one who accomplishes everything Naruto hasn't because he has replaced the 'hero' status

................Tbh, I don't understand nor agree with anything they said. They're both neutral fans with no attachments to any characters. Was I wrong with how I read the story? Isn't Naruto supposed to be the main character? From when did the 'hero' status been given to Sasuke? I wonder if this is what the other Japanese fans think as well and if I didn't think that way because I spent more time in English sites. I wonder if the huge popularity of Sasuke is because he's a hero, or rival, or villain? Would I have thought this I would've shipped SS instead of feeling disgusted by it. If I thought for even a second that Sasuke's reason of being cold towards Naruto and Sakura was because he cared for them then I would have grudgingly agreed that the NaruSasu bond and the SS bond are strong. I could've been happy that the 'hero' got everything he couldn't have. I could've enjoyed after the war arc.

But since you and KnS were saying that Sasuke ended up being the main character, I wonder if you two agree with the above statements of my sister's husband and my friend, or if you think it's a crazy opinion?

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 15 November 2014 - 01:39 PM.

[tricksie]

@tricksie

Regarding Sasuke's undeserved rewards, I talked to my sister's husband yesterday and my friend today. They basically said the same thing.

-Naruto is a genius/Sasuke is more of a hard worker
-Naruto had fate going for him/Sasuke had fate going against him
-Naruto is not the "poor guy"/Sasuke is the "poor guy" people sympathizes with
-Naruto had obstacles dodging him/Sasuke dodged obstacles himself
-Naruto wasn't the one who stopped the chain of hatred/Sasuke was the one who prevented war by willingly not attacking Konoha in the final as a revenge of his family
-From these reasons above, the author has intended to send a message through Sasuke, not Naruto
-It's understandable that Sasuke is the one who accomplishes everything Naruto hasn't because he has replaced the 'hero' status

................Tbh, I don't understand nor agree with anything they said. They're both neutral fans with no attachments to any characters. Was I wrong with how I read the story? Isn't Naruto supposed to be the main character? From when did the 'hero' status been given to Sasuke? I wonder if this is what the other Japanese fans think as well and if I didn't think that way because I spent more time in English sites. I wonder if the huge popularity of Sasuke is because he's a hero, or rival, or villain?

But since you and KnS were saying that Sasuke ended up being the main character, I wonder if you two agree with the above statements or if you think it's a crazy opinion?

 

It's so funny you posted this — I just had a discussion last night with a non-Naruto reader, about this very same thing!

 

- Is Naruto technically still the hero, even though he didn't accomplish one of the two biggest goals set forth in the very beginning?

 

- It's a straightforward "hero's journey" theme or trope, so if Naruto doesn't get the girl he's worked toward and for the entire series, unfailingly, does it negate his hero's journey? Or does it just tarnish it?

 

- And what happens when the anti-hero ends up with one winning (through no effort of his own) one of the hero's two big goals? Does the antihero become more of a hero, or does it put the hero and anti-hero on an equal footing?

 

TBH, I really can't think of any other story/movie/book where the antihero ends up with one of the hero's prime goals, especially the love interest. I would really love to look at it in terms of some other movie or story, but I just can't think of anything. 

 

So, to answer your question, I think the storyline is confusing in words and action. The story is meant to be Naruto's but the action and sympathy always falls toward Sasuke. Somewhere along the line the story shifted to being more Sasuke-centric, revolving around his goals and his struggles. Naruto was still involved, but mainly through reacting to Sasuke's actions. 

 

I think it's a case of words vs. deeds. I think Naruto is the hero, and Sasuke is the antihero. But I think Kishimoto ended up favoring his antihero (who had the more interesting storyline) more than his hero. So in words, Naruto is still the hero of the story. But in deed, Sasuke is the main driver of the plot. The story revolves around his actions and his development. Even in the end, Orochimaru is standing around waiting to see what Sasuke's going to do. Kakashi and Sakura have to wait for Sasuke to fight Naruto. The final suspense hinges on Sasuke and whether he will submit or not. Not whether Naruto will conquer his own demons and prevail. The whole thing is focused on Sasuke.

 

Typically the final battle in the hero's journey is the culmination of what the hero has learned to defeat the obstacle that is the perfect opponent for who the hero has transformed himself into. (Only he can defeat the obstacle, at that time, at that place, and with the tools only he has acquired. That's what makes him the hero.) — This isn't really the case with Naruto. Although he's had many obstacles he's overcome, none of them are what he uses to bring back Sasuke. In the end, in the final battle, Sasuke just gives up. 

 

I think it's too strong to say Naruto is not the hero. Instead I'd say Kishimoto confused Naruto's hero's journey with Sasuke's journey, often deferring to Sasuke's story because it was the more interesting one, and lapsing in his development of Naruto. 

 

I've made no secret on these forums that I wished Kishimoto focused more on Naruto, on his backstory, on Minato and Kushina's family history, on the plight of the jinchuriki and his struggles with the kyuubi, and on his true feelings and emotions. But it never happened. The backstories, the struggles and emotional hardships have all fallen squarely on the Uchiha clan and Sasuke. Even Sasuke went to the super secret Namikaze shrine and Naruto did not.

 

That's what I mean by the story being named for Naruto but revolving around Sasuke.

 

And in the end, Sasuke ends up with Sakura not because it was good or right or well-developed, but because I think Kishimoto wanted Sasuke to have a happy ending and end up in the village with a chance at a normal life and a restarted clan. I think Sakura was the only one Kishimoto could have paired Sasuke up with and truly had that normal life. So I think NH happened by default. Of course, this all works out well for the movie and continuing series with the kids. So it's a bit of a win-win. 

 

But I think Kishimoto sacrificed one of Naruto's two greated goals (to become Hokage and to win Sakura's affection) so that Sasuke could be moved from antihero to a sort of co-hero in the end. It's sad because Naruto doesn't get the girl, and Sakura ends up with a love that's not worthy of her.

 

Technically, I think for Naruto to be the true hero, of which there can be only one, he would have had to realized both his goals. But since this story's drive has always been shared with Sasuke, never Naruto's alone, then the ending is in keeping with Kishimoto's handling of the whole storyline. In the end, Naruto and Sasuke both get a happy ending, although it was not the one they wanted. If Naruto had gotten Sakura and the Hokage-dom, then Sasuke would have been left out in the cold as a wanderer, and the hero status would have tipped unequivocally in Naruto's favor. And Kishimoto has never written anything that way. Naruto's life has been paired with Sasuke, and the ending follows suit. 

 

As someone said in another thread, Naruto/Sasuke has always been the biggest pairing. And that's true. The love pairings were thrown over in favor of retaining the friendship pairing of Naruto and Sasuke. (If Sakura goes to Sasuke, then Naruto and Hinata link up, making multiple fandoms happy. However if Sakura and Naruto got together, then both Sasuke and Hinata would be out in the cold, appeasing only one fandom and alienating off the other two. And ending the chance for a spin off.)

 

And ultimately, SS/NH will lead to a spin off where Naruto 2.0 and Sakura 2.0 (Bolt and Salada) have a chance to get together, appeasing all the fans including the scorned NS fans from the first series. (If they stick around for it!)

 

(omg - so sorry for this LAP. I kept coming back to it and adding more and more!   )

[soshi]

do you really believe that a truth NS FAN will accept this?he basically shet on as for money and we supposed to accept that and support him with his new series? ar you kidding me?

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
It's so funny you posted this I just had a discussion last night with a non-Naruto reader, about this very same thing!
 
- Is Naruto technically still the hero, even though he didn't accomplish one of the two biggest goals set forth in the very beginning?
 
- It's a straightforward "hero's journey" theme or trope, so if Naruto doesn't get the girl he's worked toward and for the entire series, unfailingly, does it negate his hero's journey? Or does it just tarnish it?
 
- And what happens when the anti-hero ends up with one winning (through no effort of his own) one of the hero's two big goals? Does the antihero become more of a hero, or does it put the hero and anti-hero on an equal footing?
 
TBH, I really can't think of any other story/movie/book where the antihero ends up with one of the hero's prime goals, especially the love interest. I would really love to look at it in terms of some other movie or story, but I just can't think of anything. 
 
So, to answer your question, I think the storyline is confusing in words and action. The story is meant to be Naruto's but the action and sympathy always falls toward Sasuke. Somewhere along the line the story shifted to being more Sasuke-centric, revolving around his goals and his struggles. Naruto was still involved, but mainly through reacting to Sasuke's actions. 
 
I think it's a case of words vs. deeds. I think Naruto is the hero, and Sasuke is the antihero. But I think Kishimoto ended up favoring his antihero (who had the more interesting storyline) more than his hero. So in words, Naruto is still the hero of the story. But in deed, Sasuke is the main driver of the plot. The story revolves around his actions and his development. Even in the end, Orochimaru is standing around waiting to see what Sasuke's going to do. Kakashi and Sakura have to wait for Sasuke to fight Naruto. The final suspense hinges on Sasuke and whether he will submit or not. Not whether Naruto will conquer his own demons and prevail. The whole thing is focused on Sasuke.
 
Typically the final battle in the hero's journey is the culmination of what the hero has learned to defeat the obstacle that is the perfect opponent for who the hero has transformed himself into. (Only he can defeat the obstacle, at that time, at that place, and with the tools only he has acquired. That's what makes him the hero.) This isn't really the case with Naruto. Although he's had many obstacles he's overcome, none of them are what he uses to bring back Sasuke. In the end, in the final battle, Sasuke just gives up. 
 
I think it's too strong to say Naruto is not the hero. Instead I'd say Kishimoto confused Naruto's hero's journey with Sasuke's journey, often deferring to Sasuke's story because it was the more interesting one, and lapsing in his development of Naruto. 
 
I've made no secret on these forums that I wished Kishimoto focused more on Naruto, on his backstory, on Minato and Kushina's family history, on the plight of the jinchuriki and his struggles with the kyuubi, and on his true feelings and emotions. But it never happened. The backstories, the struggles and emotional hardships have all fallen squarely on the Uchiha clan and Sasuke. Even Sasuke went to the super secret Namikaze shrine and Naruto did not.
 
That's what I mean by the story being named for Naruto but revolving around Sasuke.
 
And in the end, Sasuke ends up with Sakura not because it was good or right or well-developed, but because I think Kishimoto wanted Sasuke to have a happy ending and end up in the village with a chance at a normal life and a restarted clan. I think Sakura was the only one Kishimoto could have paired Sasuke up with and truly had that normal life. So I think NH happened by default. Of course, this all works out well for the movie and continuing series with the kids. So it's a bit of a win-win. 
 
But I think Kishimoto sacrificed one of Naruto's two greated goals (to become Hokage and to win Sakura's affection) so that Sasuke could be moved from antihero to a sort of co-hero in the end. It's sad because Naruto doesn't get the girl, and Sakura ends up with a love that's not worthy of her.
 
Technically, I think for Naruto to be the true hero, of which there can be only one, he would have had to realized both his goals. But since this story's drive has always been shared with Sasuke, never Naruto's alone, then the ending is in keeping with Kishimoto's handling of the whole storyline. In the end, Naruto and Sasuke both get a happy ending, although it was not the one they wanted. If Naruto had gotten Sakura and the Hokage-dom, then Sasuke would have been left out in the cold as a wanderer, and the hero status would have tipped unequivocally in Naruto's favor. And Kishimoto has never written anything that way. Naruto's life has been paired with Sasuke, and the ending follows suit. 
 
As someone said in another thread, Naruto/Sasuke has always been the biggest pairing. And that's true. The love pairings were thrown over in favor of retaining the friendship pairing of Naruto and Sasuke. (If Sakura goes to Sasuke, then Naruto and Hinata link up, making multiple fandoms happy. However if Sakura and Naruto got together, then both Sasuke and Hinata would be out in the cold, appeasing only one fandom and alienating off the other two. And ending the chance for a spin off.)
 
And ultimately, SS/NH will lead to a spin off where Naruto 2.0 and Sakura 2.0 (Bolt and Salada) have a chance to get together, appeasing all the fans including the scorned NS fans from the first series. (If they stick around for it!)
 
(omg - so sorry for this LAP. I kept coming back to it and adding more and more!   )

This is a great post. I would say that many general fans do agree that Sakura fans didn't deserve this ending because well, it went back to the old days, which Kishi hinself claimed it as selfish. So it contradicts the idea of humanism. Again, the only way to make it work, the idea of "pleasing the fans" is to go this route. They may never explain how they got the time to get together and all that, because it's at the end and Kishi used the advantage that life takes itself route. In short, it's not believable, but you just have to go with flow.

Lots of continuity errors and contradicting occurred in the finale because of time lapse and seems like he don't want to address it and care for it, so he ended it at gimmick number, rather than take all the time he needs to address the point of view. Many problems also have to do with the fact the series is complex and a bit out of hand, but you must follow it and must accomplish the paths. Sadly, the ending shows he no longer has a passion for it and just let the end go by.

The mini-series isn't meant to take a long time, only to push money to show the life of the new kids, much similar to other series showing the aftermath, though some of them occur when it's an anniversary and usually last a chapter or so. In here, it won't last as long but perhaps that's the idea of Kishi, agreed to end but come back to do a little more for fans. Do we all agree for this? Not really, but that's what they felt it's easy marketing. Business got the win and we just have to either continue the ploy behind it or move on to a new thing and let them do whatever they feel it's best for business.

[六道仙人]

hero? The only hero in the story I know is Hinata.

[Tiller]

Somewhere down the line Kishimoto started writing a story called "Sasuke", he then altered his main character and his former story around this new premises.

 

Some people cheered.

 

I felt like vomiting.

 

But Hinata the silver medal is here to save the day for Naruto. So there is that.

[Advaith]

hero? The only hero in the story I know is Hinata.

Hinata is the heroine and Sasuke is the hero.

 

Obito is the all-rounder.The coolest guy

[Iwantbuns]

Sure he can. Depends on how you look at it.

[Narufan85]

Great post, Tricksie. It makes me wonder if Kishi planned this from the start, or if he just wrote things somewhat haphazardly. Like, "Oh, I'm really enjoying this Sasuke storyline so let me run with it" without thinking about how that would affect his overarching narrative that was suppose to be about Naruto.

[PhenixElite]

It's so funny you posted this — I just had a discussion last night with a non-Naruto reader, about this very same thing!
 
- Is Naruto technically still the hero, even though he didn't accomplish one of the two biggest goals set forth in the very beginning?
 
- It's a straightforward "hero's journey" theme or trope, so if Naruto doesn't get the girl he's worked toward and for the entire series, unfailingly, does it negate his hero's journey? Or does it just tarnish it?
 
- And what happens when the anti-hero ends up with one winning (through no effort of his own) one of the hero's two big goals? Does the antihero become more of a hero, or does it put the hero and anti-hero on an equal footing?
 
TBH, I really can't think of any other story/movie/book where the antihero ends up with one of the hero's prime goals, especially the love interest. I would really love to look at it in terms of some other movie or story, but I just can't think of anything. 
 
So, to answer your question, I think the storyline is confusing in words and action. The story is meant to be Naruto's but the action and sympathy always falls toward Sasuke. Somewhere along the line the story shifted to being more Sasuke-centric, revolving around his goals and his struggles. Naruto was still involved, but mainly through reacting to Sasuke's actions. 
 
I think it's a case of words vs. deeds. I think Naruto is the hero, and Sasuke is the antihero. But I think Kishimoto ended up favoring his antihero (who had the more interesting storyline) more than his hero. So in words, Naruto is still the hero of the story. But in deed, Sasuke is the main driver of the plot. The story revolves around his actions and his development. Even in the end, Orochimaru is standing around waiting to see what Sasuke's going to do. Kakashi and Sakura have to wait for Sasuke to fight Naruto. The final suspense hinges on Sasuke and whether he will submit or not. Not whether Naruto will conquer his own demons and prevail. The whole thing is focused on Sasuke.
 
Typically the final battle in the hero's journey is the culmination of what the hero has learned to defeat the obstacle that is the perfect opponent for who the hero has transformed himself into. (Only he can defeat the obstacle, at that time, at that place, and with the tools only he has acquired. That's what makes him the hero.) — This isn't really the case with Naruto. Although he's had many obstacles he's overcome, none of them are what he uses to bring back Sasuke. In the end, in the final battle, Sasuke just gives up. 
 
I think it's too strong to say Naruto is not the hero. Instead I'd say Kishimoto confused Naruto's hero's journey with Sasuke's journey, often deferring to Sasuke's story because it was the more interesting one, and lapsing in his development of Naruto. 
 
I've made no secret on these forums that I wished Kishimoto focused more on Naruto, on his backstory, on Minato and Kushina's family history, on the plight of the jinchuriki and his struggles with the kyuubi, and on his true feelings and emotions. But it never happened. The backstories, the struggles and emotional hardships have all fallen squarely on the Uchiha clan and Sasuke. Even Sasuke went to the super secret Namikaze shrine and Naruto did not.
 
That's what I mean by the story being named for Naruto but revolving around Sasuke.
 
And in the end, Sasuke ends up with Sakura not because it was good or right or well-developed, but because I think Kishimoto wanted Sasuke to have a happy ending and end up in the village with a chance at a normal life and a restarted clan. I think Sakura was the only one Kishimoto could have paired Sasuke up with and truly had that normal life. So I think NH happened by default. Of course, this all works out well for the movie and continuing series with the kids. So it's a bit of a win-win. 
 
But I think Kishimoto sacrificed one of Naruto's two greated goals (to become Hokage and to win Sakura's affection) so that Sasuke could be moved from antihero to a sort of co-hero in the end. It's sad because Naruto doesn't get the girl, and Sakura ends up with a love that's not worthy of her.
 
Technically, I think for Naruto to be the true hero, of which there can be only one, he would have had to realized both his goals. But since this story's drive has always been shared with Sasuke, never Naruto's alone, then the ending is in keeping with Kishimoto's handling of the whole storyline. In the end, Naruto and Sasuke both get a happy ending, although it was not the one they wanted. If Naruto had gotten Sakura and the Hokage-dom, then Sasuke would have been left out in the cold as a wanderer, and the hero status would have tipped unequivocally in Naruto's favor. And Kishimoto has never written anything that way. Naruto's life has been paired with Sasuke, and the ending follows suit. 
 
As someone said in another thread, Naruto/Sasuke has always been the biggest pairing. And that's true. The love pairings were thrown over in favor of retaining the friendship pairing of Naruto and Sasuke. (If Sakura goes to Sasuke, then Naruto and Hinata link up, making multiple fandoms happy. However if Sakura and Naruto got together, then both Sasuke and Hinata would be out in the cold, appeasing only one fandom and alienating off the other two. And ending the chance for a spin off.)
 
And ultimately, SS/NH will lead to a spin off where Naruto 2.0 and Sakura 2.0 (Bolt and Salada) have a chance to get together, appeasing all the fans including the scorned NS fans from the first series. (If they stick around for it!)
 
(omg - so sorry for this LAP. I kept coming back to it and adding more and more!   )

Cant agree with all. Why is sasukes only pairing choice Sakura? What about karin? They had even more development. Why does he need to have a family in konoha? Even with sakura as wife he not in konoha and could also be with karin in konoha. Just like karui with choji.
So i really dont think that Sasukes only pairing choice is sakura. Just because narutowould be with sakura doesnt mean Sasuke would have to be alone.

[soshi]

Somewhere down the line Kishimoto started writing a story called "Sasuke", he then altered his main character and his former story around this new premises.

 

Some people cheered.

 

I felt like vomiting.

 

But Hinata the silver medal is here to save the day for Naruto. So there is that.

you've realized too late,this manga is called Sasuke from the beginning of shippuden

[Tiller]

you've realized too late,this manga is called Sasuke from the beginning of shippuden

Honestly from the start of part 2 until the end of their first meeting with Sasuke things were going ok. After that it became the Sasuke show, and never really went back. Even had to start making up excuses about why Sasuke was such a kitten, but really wasn't.

 

"The Uchiha's magic eyes cause blindness and craziness if over used!"

 

"Sasuke is the reincarnated loner, and loser brother, who lost to his more popular brother Naruto a few life times ago, so he will always hold that against him subconsciously!"

 

And now of course

 

"Sasuke always loved everyone. It's true just read the story."

[tricksie]

Cant agree with all. Why is sasukes only pairing choice Sakura? What about karin? They had even more development. Why does he need to have a family in konoha? Even with sakura as wife he not in konoha and could also be with karin in konoha. Just like karui with choji.
So i really dont think that Sasukes only pairing choice is sakura. Just because narutowould be with sakura doesnt mean Sasuke would have to be alone.

 

Yeah, Kishimoto conveniently ducked out of that one by having Karin disappear from the storyline altogether. Along with Suigetsu and Juugo. 

 

But it's not like Sakura is even shown in the manga to be an option. Sasuke is vociferous about his dislike of Sakura by the end of the war, after trying to kill her he is still verbally putting her down, over and over. 

 

Karing could certainly have been an option, and in fact I thought she would play a role in his future since she was kept in the plot when she could have been conveniently dropped into Konoha's prison and forgotten about. But in the end, the pairing wasn't about who was best together or who had the best development — it was about which pairing best served a movie and a spin off series. And that was SS and NH.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
Yeah, Kishimoto conveniently ducked out of that one by having Karin disappear from the storyline altogether. Along with Suigetsu and Juugo. 
 
But it's not like Sakura is even shown in the manga to be an option. Sasuke is vociferous about his dislike of Sakura by the end of the war, after trying to kill her he is still verbally putting her down, over and over. 
 
Karing could certainly have been an option, and in fact I thought she would play a role in his future since she was kept in the plot when she could have been conveniently dropped into Konoha's prison and forgotten about. But in the end, the pairing wasn't about who was best together or who had the best development it was about which pairing best served a movie and a spin off series. And that was SS and NH.

Your ending line is pure spot on.

[Narufan85]

Your ending line is pure spot on.

Spot on and very depressing.

To let a movie dictate so much of the closing chapters of the manga is yet another indictment of Kishi.

[DJSparty]

 

It's so funny you posted this — I just had a discussion last night with a non-Naruto reader, about this very same thing!

 

- Is Naruto technically still the hero, even though he didn't accomplish one of the two biggest goals set forth in the very beginning?

 

- It's a straightforward "hero's journey" theme or trope, so if Naruto doesn't get the girl he's worked toward and for the entire series, unfailingly, does it negate his hero's journey? Or does it just tarnish it?

 

- And what happens when the anti-hero ends up with one winning (through no effort of his own) one of the hero's two big goals? Does the antihero become more of a hero, or does it put the hero and anti-hero on an equal footing?

 

TBH, I really can't think of any other story/movie/book where the antihero ends up with one of the hero's prime goals, especially the love interest. I would really love to look at it in terms of some other movie or story, but I just can't think of anything. 

 

So, to answer your question, I think the storyline is confusing in words and action. The story is meant to be Naruto's but the action and sympathy always falls toward Sasuke. Somewhere along the line the story shifted to being more Sasuke-centric, revolving around his goals and his struggles. Naruto was still involved, but mainly through reacting to Sasuke's actions. 

 

I think it's a case of words vs. deeds. I think Naruto is the hero, and Sasuke is the antihero. But I think Kishimoto ended up favoring his antihero (who had the more interesting storyline) more than his hero. So in words, Naruto is still the hero of the story. But in deed, Sasuke is the main driver of the plot. The story revolves around his actions and his development. Even in the end, Orochimaru is standing around waiting to see what Sasuke's going to do. Kakashi and Sakura have to wait for Sasuke to fight Naruto. The final suspense hinges on Sasuke and whether he will submit or not. Not whether Naruto will conquer his own demons and prevail. The whole thing is focused on Sasuke.

 

Typically the final battle in the hero's journey is the culmination of what the hero has learned to defeat the obstacle that is the perfect opponent for who the hero has transformed himself into. (Only he can defeat the obstacle, at that time, at that place, and with the tools only he has acquired. That's what makes him the hero.) — This isn't really the case with Naruto. Although he's had many obstacles he's overcome, none of them are what he uses to bring back Sasuke. In the end, in the final battle, Sasuke just gives up. 

 

I think it's too strong to say Naruto is not the hero. Instead I'd say Kishimoto confused Naruto's hero's journey with Sasuke's journey, often deferring to Sasuke's story because it was the more interesting one, and lapsing in his development of Naruto. 

 

I've made no secret on these forums that I wished Kishimoto focused more on Naruto, on his backstory, on Minato and Kushina's family history, on the plight of the jinchuriki and his struggles with the kyuubi, and on his true feelings and emotions. But it never happened. The backstories, the struggles and emotional hardships have all fallen squarely on the Uchiha clan and Sasuke. Even Sasuke went to the super secret Namikaze shrine and Naruto did not.

 

That's what I mean by the story being named for Naruto but revolving around Sasuke.

 

And in the end, Sasuke ends up with Sakura not because it was good or right or well-developed, but because I think Kishimoto wanted Sasuke to have a happy ending and end up in the village with a chance at a normal life and a restarted clan. I think Sakura was the only one Kishimoto could have paired Sasuke up with and truly had that normal life. So I think NH happened by default. Of course, this all works out well for the movie and continuing series with the kids. So it's a bit of a win-win. 

 

But I think Kishimoto sacrificed one of Naruto's two greated goals (to become Hokage and to win Sakura's affection) so that Sasuke could be moved from antihero to a sort of co-hero in the end. It's sad because Naruto doesn't get the girl, and Sakura ends up with a love that's not worthy of her.

 

Technically, I think for Naruto to be the true hero, of which there can be only one, he would have had to realized both his goals. But since this story's drive has always been shared with Sasuke, never Naruto's alone, then the ending is in keeping with Kishimoto's handling of the whole storyline. In the end, Naruto and Sasuke both get a happy ending, although it was not the one they wanted. If Naruto had gotten Sakura and the Hokage-dom, then Sasuke would have been left out in the cold as a wanderer, and the hero status would have tipped unequivocally in Naruto's favor. And Kishimoto has never written anything that way. Naruto's life has been paired with Sasuke, and the ending follows suit. 

 

As someone said in another thread, Naruto/Sasuke has always been the biggest pairing. And that's true. The love pairings were thrown over in favor of retaining the friendship pairing of Naruto and Sasuke. (If Sakura goes to Sasuke, then Naruto and Hinata link up, making multiple fandoms happy. However if Sakura and Naruto got together, then both Sasuke and Hinata would be out in the cold, appeasing only one fandom and alienating off the other two. And ending the chance for a spin off.)

 

And ultimately, SS/NH will lead to a spin off where Naruto 2.0 and Sakura 2.0 (Bolt and Salada) have a chance to get together, appeasing all the fans including the scorned NS fans from the first series. (If they stick around for it!)

 

(omg - so sorry for this LAP. I kept coming back to it and adding more and more!   )

And that's what I have a problem with, the series is named after NARUTO, he's the titular character. This is supposed to be his story. I find it ridiculously hilarious that chapter 699 is given in Sasuke's point of view yet in the last page of 700 it is said that Naruto defeated the ten-tails and became Hokage. 

 

I think that because Kishimoto had to produce a chapter every week non-stop for 15 straight years worked against his writing style. He never had a chance to sit back and evaluate his story as a whole, big picture, and self edit so to speak. Much like how you write a paper/speech, it is recommended that once in a while you take a break and come back to it, to see if everything flows correctly and makes coherent sense. Furthermore, when you present what you wrote the audience has a much clearer picture of what your ideas were. 

[DJSparty]

As for Naruto still being the hero we know? It's a tough question, and given the ending of the manga, an even tougher answer. The fact that there is any question or doubt in whether or not he is/was is troubling to me, and therefore I'd have to go with no, he wasn't. He accomplished what he stated were his goals but he didn't surpass his predecessors in any respect, in my opinion. The hero never got THE girl, and to me that's a big deal. Especially when it was emphasized with his teacher's last words (it is implied that Naruto was/is supposed to surpass Jiraiya) about not getting the love of his life. 

 

I don't know if the Tale of the Gutsy Ninja is the same as it was in the manga but if it is, Naruto's actions goes directly against what he said to Nagato when he said "That's who Naruto is." Which is disheartening. 

[Candleguy]

Not with Sasuke getting off scott free

Edited by Candleguy, 16 November 2014 - 10:13 AM.

[Aslan]

As for Naruto still being the hero we know? It's a tough question, and given the ending of the manga, an even tougher answer. The fact that there is any question or doubt in whether or not he is/was is troubling to me, and therefore I'd have to go with no, he wasn't. He accomplished what he stated were his goals but he didn't surpass his predecessors in any respect, in my opinion. The hero never got THE girl, and to me that's a big deal. Especially when it was emphasized with his teacher's last words (it is implied that Naruto was/is supposed to surpass Jiraiya) about not getting the love of his life. 

 

I don't know if the Tale of the Gutsy Ninja is the same as it was in the manga but if it is, Naruto's actions goes directly against what he said to Nagato when he said "That's who Naruto is." Which is disheartening. 

Yeah I agree. To question whether the character is the hero of whom the series is named after is truly saddening. And to quote the same dialogue "If you change the hero, the story becomes something else entirely" (I don't remember the exact line but you get the idea). To me, this line echoes the truth of 699+700+Movie because our "supposed hero" has indicatively changed for the worse and the story ought to follow.