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Bail o' Lies

Member Since 06 Apr 2015
Offline Last Active Today, 09:52 AM

#990804 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 01 December 2023 - 04:14 AM

 I think you are going a bit over the top with the woke stuff there. At best I can see them making naruto and sasuke gay, because of how that writing made it look that way and in kohona team gai and the hyuga will probably be more portrayed by Asian actors given they are based on those cultures.

There will probably be more diversity found when the do ninja from other villages because they are from other countries I feel at best or at least do background character that are more diverse or just minor characters no one will care about.

Though even if all the live actions relationships are gay, it be a lot better than the canon romance unless they put in effort to change the romance, though given lionsgate is the same studio that did twilight I'm not hopeful in this aspect

There are now possibly two live action adaptation going on right now. The Lionsgate movie and the Netflix tv show, because of the success of One Piece.


I was being very moderate with my prediction going off trends in modern adaptations.


The cast being Asian is surprisingly unlikely. I avoided race prediction besides Naruto and Sasuke mostly because it is a toss up to what ever the director/writer/producer thinks will be the most progressive and virtuous in order to receive praise and accolades at Hollywood parties. Mostly Blacks and Browns, "in order to reflect the world we live in today." Asian aren't really seen as that progressive for casting.


Ideally: The Leaf would be Asian mainly Japanese, White, or a homogenous mix. Sand village Desert Asian, or Mideastern & Mediterranean. Cloud village Americans. Rock village Chinese, Korean, and Asian that live in mountainous regions. Mist village Rural Japanese judging by how their village looks or Pacific islanders.


But those would prevent the random blacks and browned skin people of various ethnicities that must be in every shot to show how virtuous the directors/writers/producers are and how they are morally superior to both the audience and the creator.  


As for me going through which of the cast might be gay in an adaptation. Modern Hollywood writers do not believe male friendship can exist; if two guys are close, they must be gay. And with all the male friendships in Naruto that is a lot of gay couples in the eyes of modern Hollywood. Also to balance out all the men being gay. Clearly some of the women must be lesbians. Sakura and Hinata might be straight. So that means Ino and Tenten got to be the lesbian couple, and since Tenten is the most sporty looking of the girls they may make her trans as well; so they also have a trans character. 


As for what Lionsgate might do. Well if they look at Sasuke they would see they have another Edward Cullen which means that would have another Twilight Series. Now then the question to go with SNS or SS? Which lead a question of what they think will either get them more money or accolades?


Right now to your response to Therece since they ramble I find it best to break up your response in sections to better focus a response.

 You haven't been on twitter then, you still see ss and nh shippers trying dismiss or undermine narusaku. Also I have seen a lot more what if narusaku videos on YouTube.

Boruto uninteresting and the pairing are a bust. More interesting to talk about what ifs at this point than what is.

 Naruto wasn't really a flat character, unfortunately he got a bit flanderised in part 2 for chasing after sasuke too much.

Boruto is a by product of the problematic aspects of how nh and ss became canon and you can't ignore that. Hence, gaiden pretty much show how problematic the ss family dynamic is and can only be resolved with a cop out or ignore it.

Pretty sure metal Lee has become non existent compared to sadara who at least still shows up.

Metal Lee hasn't been in the manga since...he may have hanged out with the guys playing cards, years ago. Part of the problem is his teammates are two anime original character that have never been seen in the manga. Both who are suppose to be close friends of Bolt. Salad has a role as Bolt's maiden who has complete faith in him, she doesn't have much outside of that role.


Naruto isn't a flat character but he does stop developing as a character around chapter 500. And, there were problems that needed to be address: what would he do as hokage, how was he going to end the cycle of hatred, and why should we care about the chase for Sasuke?


The gaiden also gave more hints to nH's family issues as well which where then shown in the movie. But the origins can be seen in chapter 700. Neither Naruto nor Sasuke are ever home and their children resent them for it. But originally, it was easy to assume at least Sasuke may visit from time to time. Then in the Gaiden written by Kishimoto, "Nope, he has never visited them in 12 years. Instead, he has a meeting place outside the village; when he wants to rendezvous with Naruto. In order to make sure, he never has to meet with his so called family." The spin off manga with fanfiction level of writing didn't help, as it showed, "that Sakura clearly gone insane with Sasuke being constantly gone, that she fantasizes about using edo tensei on him, so they can be together; forever."

nH barely has any development and only had a view overrated hype moments that the anime bloated up, while sasusaku at best had a few moments in part 1 however is undermined by part 2 and have a large part of the fandom that hates the ship as a result.

That's because there was 698 chapters of development ruined and ss becoming canon did ruin Sakura's character, yes there where some that hated her but most blamed kishimoto and the editors.

Narusaku has the most development and interactions between a male and female cast and also the one that has the parallels to it. While it may not be as important as naruto's bond with sasuke, it was arguably the second most important relationship to naruto and the story.

In theory in order of importance. It should be. The growing romance of NaruSaku simply because they constantly interact with each other the most since neither leave the village and were suppose to get together. The rivalry of NaruSasu to justify the chase. Then the tragic misunderstanding of SasuSaku that causes problems for both itself and the other relationships.


As her pleads to Sasuke were suppose to show the readers. The bench scene left Sakura with a misunderstanding of Sasuke. She thought he secretly liked her, which he didn't. This prevented her from forming a true bond with him, therefore be unable to convince him to remain in the village. Because she thought he would love her enough to not leave, which he didn't. Since he only saw her as an annoying teammate that he gain some level of fondness during their time together on team 7, but not love more importantly not love strong enough to overrule his desire for revenge.

Sounds more like you are blinded by ss and nh popularity that you don't want to admit their development was poor compared to narusaku.

They seemed to be utterly convinced that Sakura was never thrown away or lost her heroine status...even though Kishimoto said she did due to being too hated. They based this belief on the fact that SS got a spin off manga. Which they assume is because the pairing is so popular and successful. When it could be easily that the companies got sick of Boruto's poor performance. That they decided to check, if the pairings they went with were actually what they were promised they would be, and came up short.

The editors and the hinata fandom are often blamed because there were interviews shown that they influenced kishimoto's decisions of the story's ending. He maybe the author, but he clearly allowed himself to be influenced by them, heck even Yahagi told him not to as a final advice from what I hear.

Doesn't matter if ss fans liked the ship since the beginning in part 1 as I said before part 2 destroyed the reputation of their ship outside their fandom and Sakura's character. Not seeing Naruto as an option just means they blinded themselves to the development that narusaku was having. Plus frankly I find a lot of ss fans self inserting themselves into the ship so you have no right to accuse narusaku fans of treating Sakura a trophy wife.

Whether you like or not Sakura's heroine status was tied to her being naruto's love interest, because that how the story set it up and when she wasn't her role was reduced to the point she no longer appears in the sequel series and at best shows up in a filler or two and some spin offs.

Naruto pretty much set up the heroine in the romantic interest like most Hollywood stories and usa superhero comics do. This could of been different if sakura was set up as the best friend or rival, however sasuke had those 2 roles or she was naruto's sister but she's not no matter how much the ss fandom tried to play on this.

Not everyone who votes for sakura in those polls are sasusaku fans, there are fans who multi ship, crack ship, just generally like her and even narusaku. So no I wouldn't count sasusaku fan alone for her popularity, because its not enough to get he back into the boruto story.

Sakura only appeared in Boruto when Kishimoto was busy with his Samurai 8 manga. Once he was back, she was gone again. And only her teenage version was in the story of that Ninja storm game.


The Last made it clear that Naruto was Hinata's trophy husband, as Sasuke was Sakura's. They were rewards for the girls' devotion towards doing nothing; just as the position of Hokage and possibly Boruto are for Sarada.


The big poll at the start of this year was as most hype for a Naruto poll in the past ten years. With the promise the winner would get their own one-shot. With people voting all over the world. Taking months to collect votes. A random poll conducted by some random Japanese site from 11/14/23 to 11/18/23 mostly targeting late 20 year old women can't really compare to it.

#990799 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 30 November 2023 - 04:41 AM

Still in that denial?

Don't even try to think that the current Naruto fandom cares about NaruSaku or hates Boruto because NS wasn't canon, because even SS, Sasuke, Sakura, and NH fans hate Boruto too.

Not as much as you are. Granted not many could have denial to the levels you do.


And Boruto spawned from nH/SS. Do you think its a good thing that Boruto is clearly disliked and unsuccessful? It affect nH/SS too in the eyes of the executives. Since, Boruto was a core part of nH/SS happening. When it has problems they get the blame too.


When NS was the main pairing Naruto was one of the biggest most financially successful manga IP out there. Once it switched to nH/SS, it quickly became yesterday's news.


Naruto is the type of manga where all the colors in the story would come from the people, villains and cast around him because Naruto have has a kind of a flat character arc.

Thats why you have so many fandoms in Naruto, characters, clans, pairings and fights more popular than Naruto's character and things relateds to him.
Boruto manga is 100% Boruto-Centric to the detriment of other characters and fanbases
When Ikemoto made Boruto say "it's his story" and announced the sequel, everyone thought it was an exciting new story, like he would have wanted to say "it's a new story/adventure for the original characters that everyone loves and the new generation.". But unfortunately, no, it was just a Boruto-centric story where the entire cast are pathetic, nerfed characters and NPCs.

Naruto didn't really focus on its bloated cast. Kishimoto would introduce a character, maybe do something with them in an arc, and then forget about them once that arc was over. Only a handful of the cast were able to keep Kishimoto's interest; so he actually did anything with them.


Hell even the main cast Team 7 suffered from this. Sakura barely received any of the focus she needed, he actively kept Kakashi suppressed, Yamato was forgotten about, and Sai was reduced very quickly to the NS shipper of the cast. Sasuke the only one that escaped from it in part due to his obsession with the final clash meaning he had to justify why the chase went on for so long and why Sasuke didn't just return to the village. Naruto even suffered and to the detriment for you more then us. As the lack of focus of what he would do once he became Hokage made achieving it hollow, he annoyed most people with his chase after Sasuke, since that barely explored anything whih quickly made it very dull, and the Last showed even his personality was based on lies upon lies destroyed his reputation & appeal.


The character focus in Boruto is a waste of time not because it doesn't have some bloated cast, but because they are focusing on the wrong character. Bolt's dream is to be Salad's enforcer. Sarada is the one they needed to focus on not Boruto. Who cares about his stupid bond of bros with Kawaki, when the goal of the main character hasn't even been touched upon yet.

Ikemoto, or whoever the true writer is, does not know how to create an organic story where all the characters come together. He only has Boruto's story in mind, and everyone else is just a prop for it, which is very detrimental to Boruto's character and his story.

No one is going to sit thru watching Boruto as a black hole stu Character with his cringeynes that has been reused so many times in the Manga that ultimate destroyed its own manga in the making when its only catering to  1 type of the new Boruto fans. Boruto exemplifies how an black hole stu protagonist and bad author can ruin everything and everyone around him.
People wanted more of the Naruto cast, not Boruto . It was sad to see so much hype dying out, but it was bound to happen because Boruto the movie was popular because of Sasuke and Naruto as a adults, not because of Boruto.
Gaiden's focus was also Sarada, Sasuke and Sakura as a whole with Orochimaru as a cameo and Naruto around, not just Sarada alone. Nobody wanted to see Boruto doing random kitten outside the original characters.

They wanted to have a sequel that was still in Konoha with all the well known characters around to keep the old fans interested in the sequel. The way they did it was by nerfing the heck out Sasuke and Naruto vanish with Sakura, Kakashi, Tsunade, Orochimaru and the entire original cast and Boruto and Kawaki (Who is this guy?!) receiving stupid powerups.

Sasuke and Sakura's daughter and the only Uchiha in the next gen is so badly treated and ignored.
(Another reason for  SS fans hates even more this sequel)
Boruto manga didn't follow up on a lot of the plots that Naruto manga made. It's simply trash. 

Guess you are hearing hype for part two dying out already, not surprised.


The problem is that it's all a waste of time because by the end, Bolt's will become Salad's enforcer, but she has had so little focus; no one should care when it happens.


Now hold on, if there is a character that has consumed the manga; it isn't Bolt, surprisingly, it is Nail. Have you read the manga? Granted. Yes, Bolt is a gary stu super being that is more powerful than any Naruto character, but again the character that consumed the plot is Nail. Because, he is Ikemoto's character.


Those fans got wanted, nH and SS happened. For those pairings to happened the companies were promised a sequel that would make them money. They didn't get what they want. So their patience holding up a failing brand is wearing thin. Hence why Ikemoto was told to speed up part one. If part two doesn't make them happy, what happens to those pairings? As they are not making the money NS used to make back in the day.


They should have went with a 200 years or so timeskip, with a different MC unrelated to Naruto/Sasuke similar to the Legend of Kora. It would be more bearable to the fandom.

My opinion of your idea moving the story forward centuries to do a sequel is the same whenever I hear that mentioned in other fandoms. It shows how damaged the story is, because if you have to move the story that far forward; you are basically resetting the setting & the story. That means the franchise is damaged. And, since you think that should have happened after nH/SS happened. You on some subconscious level know; that it damaged the story, that the story can't move forward without resetting.


Korra was the next Avatar in the cycle. Last Airbender was Avatar Aang dealing with the mistakes of Avatar Roku. Korra dealt with the results of Aang's actions as his successor.


SS and even NH have a substantial amount of manga development and content, enough to cultivate a a very big and dedicated fanbase. Their supporters are just as passionate about their pairings as you are about NaruSaku.

I can still recall the denial and Sakura bashing, with statements like "NaruSaku has 698 chapters of development, and Sakura was ruined and we hate her now." 
Completely wrong, the manga isn't  about NaruSaku. Half of these chapter were about Sasuke and fights. 
SS and even NH have their fair share of meaningful chapters and scenes.
Your insistence on NaruSaku's superiority blinds you to the development and scenes of rival characters and couples. It's time to let go of your bitterness from losing the pairing wars nine years ago. 
If NaruSaku or Hinata were to win something , many of you would revel in gloating over your rivals and proclaiming Kishimoto's mistake in the ending or blaming it on the "evil editors and Hinata fans." (Remember, Kishimoto is the author, and he's not bound by anyone's demands.)

The manga is about Naruto's journey to become hokage and his journey as a ninja with his teammates; Team 7. Bringing Sasuke back to the village and team 7 is a part of the story. Then, it was abandoned at the last second for Hinata.


People having problems with the story after the ending turning into a mess is reasonable. Especially, since even you think the story should be reset after nH/SS happened, even though you are happy with the pairings.


Also this seemed to be a major concern for the old NaruSaku fans in this forum, who always wondered why Kishimoto chose Hinata over her as Naruto's partner and why Sakura was so unpopular, completely ignoring the SasuSaku and the Sakura fans who have liked both Sakura and Sasuke since Part 1 and never considered Naruto as an option for her or doesn't give a danm about Hinata getting Naruto  because Sakura’s heroine status isn’t tied to spreading her legs or becomes a trophy to Naruto.

They keep asking, because they hope there is a better answer than. "He did it because his editors told them Hinata was more popular internationally than Sakura. Who was apparently too hated to be the heroine. So, then she was given to Sasuke to just put her somewhere." (Which more or less directly from interviews after the ending about what happened.) Not helped, that it backfired so instantaneously on implementation in such a way that was very predictable as it was disastrous, that you hope there was more to it. Than just some bad advice to justify this giant mess.


It's amusing that popularity no longer seems to matter now that Sakura has been consistently topping popularity IMPORTANT polls around the world and in Japan as one of the best manga female characters and manga couples.  Unlike Random  old comments from the supposed backslash from NS fans..

Yeah, looks like the current fandom doesn't give a danm about NaruSaku and the SasuSaku are enough to turn Sakura beloved. 

99% of the old fanbase is gone. You are not just sitting upon the ashes calling and it a success. You are calling a salted irradiated wasteland a bloody utopia.


2/3 of Boruto is already over, and Nothing has happened. You even have shown, they openly admit that they can't even use 2/3 of Boruto for a video game because its too dull and uninteresting.


That never happened when NS was the main pairing in Naruto. But it is happening to Boruto when it is a sequel to nH/SS.

#990783 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 27 November 2023 - 02:45 AM

Lol Id laugh so much if they made Naruto and Sasuke gay. We all know what Netflix is like as unlike Oda. Kishi has no balls so he'd do whatever Netflix says.

The time to make a Naruto Live Action was early 2000. 2012 at the latest. Now a day it going to be a mess.


They will probably try to make the cast different races, gay, or trans.


Naruto: The one that is going to have the most focus on their representation changes as he (even that is probably going to be in question) is the main character. Are they even going to even try to make him have Blue eyes and Blond hair? If he is a minority, they are going to go on and on about how oppressed he is, and if he is white, then he can't complain about it or will get lectures on 'white fragility' or something like that. Then, if the progressive decided that he is "queer coded" and they stick with the canon pairings...Oh the hissy fits that will happen. And, if they even shown the sexy jutsu, then they will also declare him trans.


Sasuke: Will probably be fine due to them just needing to make another Kylo Ren/Edward Cullen/Jon Snow. I pity the sap they get in the role though. As he will be stalked after by desperately lonely women for decades. And there will be blood fights between him being gay or not.


Sakura: Depends, if they remove her hitting and lecturing Naruto. Either she will be a kitten or they will have to come up with things for her to do so she isn't seen as useless therefore problematic and sexist. So she may be turned into a girl boss.


Kakashi: Will be played by a semi-famous actor, so either the best actor or clearly barely putting in any effort, that is likely years too old.


Shikamaru: Will probably be lectured and reduced as a male character can't be the smartest especially if he is lazy casually smarter than everyone. Unless he is a soy face hipster that a stand in for the writer/director. May end up in a gay couple with Chouji. Remember, men can't be close friends to modern writers. If they are close, they must be gay.


Ino: Likely made into either a complete slut or covered up more than a nun in convent. Also, she and Sakura/Tenten/Hinata may end up as lesbian couple. 


Chouji: Will largely be fine due to being the fat kid. Problem is he will go from pudgy/big bone to morbidly obese. With lectures on body acceptance.  


Kiba and Shino will probably be fine...they will probably be made gay to have another gay couple


Hinata: Depends. Do they see her as regressive or a self insert? If they think she is regressive; complete personality change. If they see her as themselves. Did anyone see Velma? Think that and that's not even getting into the Hyuuga clan issue.


Lee: Will probably be fine...if also made gay. Either in love with Guy or Neji.


Tenten: Is the most sporty of the girls, so either lesbian or trans.


Neji:...Depends how they handle the Hyuuga issue.


Tsunade: Girl Boss


Jiraiya: Castrated. 


So a for possible outcome for a Naruto Live Action. Imagine a gay transgender Steve Urkel chasing after Edward Cullen, when he not constantly moaning about how oppressed he is, while Ken Watanabe playing Kakashi keeps pulling his mask down to show his face every five seconds, and the women they get to play Sakura will constantly quip with a smug look on her face as well as she will on social media declare that all fans of Naruto are sexist that shouldn't complain about anything as well as saying they shouldn't watch it.

#990768 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 25 November 2023 - 07:03 PM



"Idk why this is so funny, toneri basically told boruto that his mom was a second choice. Imagine if boruto asked how his parents got together, and Toneri said it was because of genjutsu."


                Toneri:" Back then, Naruto saw Sasuke, an elite student, as his rival, and seemed to have a crush on Sakura.

The, "seemed," means they are still trying to justify it by the Last. That Naruto wasn't really in love or didn't really have a crush on Sakura; only seemed to be because it just a part of his rivalry with Sasuke to go after the girl that Sasuke had feelings for.

#990752 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 22 November 2023 - 08:26 PM

You really can't forget about me, can you? I never said anything like that. Since you quoted me months later, I will clarify some recent events for some delusional fans who are still mourning NaruSaku death after 9 years.

Oh you're back. Or were you never gone and just lurking without logging in, or worse you had friends lurking...Wait, I see you wanted to show off those rings, isn't that cute? 


Anyways. This was one of your big arguments. Just because you're not here doesn't mean when it finally released we can't talk about it, or your talking points.

I stated that they would disregard the Boruto manga storyline due to its poor quality and Ikemoto's inability to craft a compelling narrative or produce decent artwork. This has nothing to do with the canon couples.

The producers admited that:
As you can see, they would rather create their own story instead of use Ikemoto story.

Well, I was going off gut feeling. Nice to know it was the case, and sad at the same time. Normally, a company would try to hide something this bad.


From what I recall you were hoping they were going to erase Ikemoto's story. That's kind of hard to do with a self deleting story.


Anyways I thought it was a bad sign that they weren't just adapting the story like they did for every other Naruto game they did. But instead doing their own filler story. Even then I thought they were still going to adapt Boruto. Instead they did Naruto's Greatest Hits.  He is not on the cover, instead 5 different Naruto, and for 3/4th of the game you are playing Naruto or Bolt playing a Naruto NPC. How is this suppose to promote and lure old fans in to Boruto when they do everything to hide him?


How is this good for the IP when they are doing everything they can to run from it?

- Instead of focusing on Boruto and Kawaki, they shifted their focus to Sasuke and Naruto.

- Rather than the Otsutsuki, they centered their attention on the Uchiha clan.
- Instead of the Karma power, they focused on the Sharingan.
- War and clans conflict instead of the aliens.
At this point they're just try to milk out the Uchihas and popular plots then tried to hide it by adding Boruto's character in the game.  

Weren't most people getting sick of the Uchiha's over focus years before the ending?


Again. Why is it a good thing for the companies to have to hide all that make up the Boruto's story? They want them to support Boruto without knowing anything that makes it up other than being a sequel to Naruto. In that case, why should they be continuing it? Again, if Boruto ends so do likely the pairings you like if not the whole franchise.

Despite your alleged popularity of NaruSaku, which led to a decline in the franchise's popularity due to fan backlash, the game producers remained oblivious and made no alterations to the canon couples. Instead of developing an alternative NaruSaku family, they introduced a New Team Special featuring Sasuke, Sakura, and Sarada. 

Well, I guess that is true from a certain point of view. If 99% of the customer base has left because they didn't like the ending, didn't like the change of pairing, or just didn't like the sequel lead the came from the change of pairings. So in a way removing NS can be the cause of their decline, but also going with nH/SS.

As you can see, Nanashi was just an Uchiha wearing a blonde wig instead of a NaruSaku daughter from another dimension. Let's hope that every blonde character introduced is a NaruSaku son.

Pretty sure Nanashi/Hikari was a girl not a boy, and her appearance was different because of a full body illusion not a wig. Don't worry it quite clear you don't notice or understand a lot of things. So, I don't blame you, for not noticing.

Also today is the official couples day in Japan.

They still are using the Canon Couples propaganda and ignoring NaruSaku.
They released a pair of rings referencing and paying tribute to Sasuke and Sakura.
A big japonese Japanese site conducted a popularity poll to find out which couple is the most popular of all mangas. Guess what? 
1 - Sasuke/Sakura from Naruto
2 - Naruto/Hinata from Naruto
3 - Yoh/Anna from Shaman King.
4 -  Lloyd/Yol Forger from Spy X Family.
5   - Ichigo/Inoue from Bleach.
Everybody in Japan hates the canon couples and everybody misses NaruSaku.   :umm:
I really admire the anger and some desilusional NaruSaku fan theories  fans 9 years after the ending.
Let's wait. Maybe in 2050, a NaruSaku son from another dimension will appear, or Kishimoto will express regret for his canon couples decision, stating that he lost his wife based  Sakura to Sasuke due to the influence of the evil editors and Hinata fans.

Ah your running or back to lurking now again.


Guess these are what brought you back because you thought they were wins, and are leaving before they become losses, again.


1. Part one of Boruto ended selling under 100,000, and was likely ordered to rush to its ending due to low sales.


2. The SS manga barely managed to get half that, and who knows for the other one.


3. The Boruto anime is on hiatus and still hasn't come back.


4. There was suppose to be a four episode special of Naruto that keeps delaying itself due to fear of low views.


5.  No new movies, despite all it contemporaries making tens if not hundreds of millions hand over fist with those now a days.


Now we are waiting for the sales data on both: Part Two to see if it was able to gain a following, and a game with a self deleting story. And you show up with some cheap ring, and some random poll without any data on either?

#990706 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 26 October 2023 - 06:29 AM

I've tend to notice that with books like lord of the rings, game of thrones and Harry potter. Comics people are ethier more aware of the movies or cartoons depending on the era they grew up in and get suprised when the adaptions of comics are a mix of different stories rather than a full on adaption, though comics continuity would make it more impossible to ever full adapt stories unless their are elseworld stories. Though games have started to become as big of a medium.

My guess is because they are more accessible to watch and consume, especially with streaming services in recent years. Another reason which came from a youtuber called lily orchards who did a video on making fun of J.k.rowling, during which mentioned that due to the education system making reading more like a chore for kids, becoming less fun making it into assignments of highly revied books by adults. With some only getting back into reading when a fun book at the time like Harry potter came along.

So I wouldn't be suprised if many of the anime only watchers would view the 700 hundred chapters chore to read, even though the anime became worse than that due to filler.

Video games surpassed comics about 20 years ago, the fact that comics have been in decline since the 90's not helping them, and they surpassed Movies in profits almost ten years ago. Though that went unnoticed due to the stranglehold films have over western culture. Granted, I am assuming you are thinking games are only recently getting big due the things like, the success of the Sonic and Mario movies and such.


Comics despite the fact they were holding up Hollywood for the past decade, are not respected. Their stories are not respected. Their writers are not respected. Their art is not respected. Hollywood does not respect anyone but themselves. For comics, they see it as a pathetic boy hobby they want to turn into a girl hobby, since they assume the boys will just accept it, and see their fans as losers that they can milk for money. People at Marvel have made it clear they prefer to hire "fans" not fans. They see people that have actually read the comics as a red flag, and don't hire them. They want people who will do whatever they want with the IP; then use the 'bigot shield' when it backfires. Over actually making an adaptation.


Remember, the only reason the One Piece Live Action turned out the way it did was Oda was an executive producer and force them to follow his story. If not, the "fan" writers and "fan" directors would have made another Live Action Cowboy Bebop. Same with the Mario movie, before Nintendo intervened it was going to be another mess and then they step in.


As for schools making reading a chore for the students. It not a problem that they make students read for assignments the problem is that is likely the only time they ever read if at all. Hell, when I went to college, I knew a girl that never even read a single line of Shakespeare before a class we took together; because apparently the schools in California just gave them power-point outlines of the books and stories that were required reading. Harry Potter was often the only book they ever read for enjoyment; if they read them and not just said they did while only watching the movies. Which is why millennials obsess over it.


Watching something on TV is often a passive way of absorbing a story. Books require active absorption as you have to imagine what happening in your mind about what you are reading. One of the reasons storytelling quality has gone down in the West is because they stopped reading. Another is, they know if they play the virtue signaling game, they will be given a pass; so they don't put the work in.

#990703 Naruto: Alternative The Last (Doujinshi)

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 24 October 2023 - 09:38 PM

Also they would need to come up with the story. Before they were just copying-pasting the movie in their own art style with a few tweaks here and there. If they are doing something original why trying to keep with the movie. That takes time to figure out.


Which is why I would have preferred they did their own story instead of doing the Last movie. Since the last is built around making Hinata the heroine and love interest.

#990697 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 23 October 2023 - 08:48 PM

I mean if you see what happens in dragon quest the character who's similar to sakura does move on

Who? Are we suppose to know which dragon quest character you are referring to by instinct?


With all the craziness that we had  to deal with regarding the NH and SS fans (and still do, with less intensity), we can easily forget that they are NH and SS fans out there that are chill and can see reasons.


Some fans can enjoy the idea outside the canon reality (like fanfiction) and hate the canon, some can accept that the writing was kitten but accept the rest and some, while not agreeing with everything, can admit that NS (with SK) was the most logical pairing(s) that would affect the story a lot better for the majority of the main characters and also, would have a much better flow with the story in general. 


 I have a friend that was shipping NH and I told her, read the integrality of the manga vs watching the anime and you know what, she did and said that it did make a lot more senses to have NS as canon and understood now a lot better my points. She even said that while she was no longer a fan of the series, that with all what she compared, she would have probably change from NH to NS for sure.


Hell, when starting watching the anime, I was a NH shipper (not an hardcore one though just enjoyed it a little) but as soon as I started reading the manga, I switched instantly on NS. With that point in mind, I totally get why, only anime fans (mostly the westerns fans), ship hard NH because right from the very beginning (at least, with the fillers episodes between the first part and shippuden), SP was bias with Hinata. 

The anime had a lot of filler promoting Hinata because the staff was obsessed with her. It is why they ended Naruto marrying Hinata because that was their end goal all along. Without the anime, Hinata is a character that's barely involved in the story and barely interacts with Naruto despite professing love for him. With it, while she still isn't involved in the story that often, she is constantly by Naruto side, and constantly thinking about how much she loves him.


Most Western fans seem to hate reading anything, and prefer just to watch a tv/movie/anime and accept that as canon. I lost count of the people I have met that say they love an adaptation, that they love as well as care so much about the story, that they wish to learn more about it, but will never read the source material. Saying excuses like they want to watch all the show first before they read the book, so they won't get spoiled. Then they never read the book. Even if they do, they hold the adaptation over the source material, and will differ to that when inconsistencies happen.

#990645 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 28 September 2023 - 07:24 AM

interesting the description says naruto's been in love with her since the academy. This must come as a shock to certain fans that are in denial

It is not like they are going to read it, and if they do; they will just complain on twitter. If they don't just assume its a mistranslation.


Most Japanese fans have either gone, "well Kishimoto must have planned it but it doesn't mean its worth a watch," or, "it was a decision made to appeal to the gaijins' market so this isn't even made for us." So it isn't that big a deal for them to go, "yeah Sakura was the love interest and heroine till the ending happened." Though to be honest, even in the State your not going to fine many who care, because Naruto hasn't been that big in over a decade and most haven't watched Boruto. It the ones that do care and will have a hissy fit that have to be appeased.


As for anything related to Naruto's family life after the ending compared to Kishimoto. NS was likely to be happy, since it would be based on the hope he could finally spend time with his family. nH is based on the reality his wife is upset he sold out and the selling out back fired so he has to work on fixing what his selling out has caused. SS is what it is because Sasuke on some level symbolizes his brother and he doesn't like the idea of his twin brother sleeping with his wife; so he wants it loveless with Sasuke as far away from Sakura as possible.

#990622 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 23 September 2023 - 05:24 PM

It's funny that Naruto is only series I know of that actually did that. There could be more but yeah we see now the disastrous consequences of changing plot trajectory especially last second. Granted there was so much else wrong with the War arc and it could have been done better and I attribute it to Kishimoto being wishy washy about the concept of war and giving unnecessary drama to characters he wasn't focusing on anyway with bringing back the dead on both sides etc. etc. Granted there were good and bad moments admittedly on that plot point but it was still mostly unnecessary though in the grand scheme of things. Ninjas just have to deal with death and lack of closure even with their loved ones sometimes. And even if it is, there are other ways to do it besides resurrection. Again that is just my opinion on it.

In theory the war arc should have been the final trial for the cast before the final battle. But. A big problem with the war arc is that there were so little focus on the side cast beforehand that there wasn't much reason to care about their own little battles.


For example. Why should you care about Hinata's father facing off against his Brother if they haven't been referenced since the chunin exam?


You also had character he just introduce like Darui who your suppose to care about.


Also this is where Naruto really went into auto pilot as Ninja Messiah as Kishimoto all but completely stop having Naruto be questioned.


Then he did something I have never seen done before and after he did it you know why with bringing the army to the final battle. As they turned out useless and just stood around as slack jawed lemmings.


Editor sometime are helpful to the story. It is clear in Akane Banashi that the editor has a lot of influence as it is very similar to another manga he edited Act-Age. While making sure to deal with any problems that lead to that manga's downfall.

#990619 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 22 September 2023 - 09:14 AM

I never understood why Kishimoto was the only mangaka who couldn't get the romantic pairing he wanted, despite others in the same circumstances having succeeded. Kubo is the best example of this: Bleach was on the same studio as Naruto, and the fans wanted the protagonist to end up with someone else, but Kubo went with the pairing he wanted even though it went against the wishes of most fans.

I thought about the reason and noticed that, between the years 2000 and 2010, female characters in shoujo who had pink hair or a transformation that turned their hair pink usually ended up with a black-haired character. The best examples of this are Tokyo Mew Mew and Shugo Chara!, both of which aired on TV Tokyo.
I remembered that TV Tokyo changed the pairing dynamic of Blue Dragon, which in the game was practically a retelling of Naruto-Sakura-Sasuke, with hints of a Naruto and Sakura pairing. In the anime, the protagonist got a Hinata 2.0, the rival ended up with a random girl, and the heroine ended up with a Sai-like character who appeared in the second half. I have a feeling that if TV Tokyo did Slam Dunk, they would put Haruko with Rukawa and we wouldn't have the Haruko and Hanamichi wedding poster. And if they did a Kingdom Hearts adaptation, Kairi would end up with Riku.

Editors often try to get their writers to change something so it makes it feel like they had a part in the story. Most Mangaka just ignore any demand to change the pairings. Kishimoto was surrounded by people (anime staff, editors, and assistants) that were supporters of Hinata, and Hinata was "perceived to be" popular in the most important market for the series, The US. That pressure made Kishimoto yield and became an example to mangaka after why they should never do something like that to a vital part of their story.


In case it wasn't clear even from the get go, the entire series is an after thought in an attempt to squeeze out more money out of the franchise with Kishi showing no emotional investment in it's writing even before it started. Even the initial writer I feel did not want to do it as more than as a jumpstart to his career as a manga author if not artist at the same time before he does his own work. you don't feel any passion in the series even at its highest points. but that may be just me since I don't read it but I just read the summaries and obviously I don't glean anything from that alone but the summaries don't feel appealing enough compel me to read it either

That is quite accurate, reading it or their interviews you get the feeling that neither of them really wanted to work on Boruto. They saw it was an easy way to boost themselves, so they could do their own stories after working on Boruto for a couple of years. O course the backlash destroyed Naruto and they were required to do more than they were willing to make it successful, so instead it has damaged their prospects.


Kodiachi was just some random writer Shueisha had that did light novels for them. He did one of the post-endings Naruto novel and probably agree to be its writer, because Ikemoto didn't think he could handle the writing aspect, as well as working with the anime staff to keep the manga and anime consistent. He probably help form Boruto because he had his own issues with living in the shadow of his respected professor of a father. He also probably was the one behind Amando/Madoc, Clone Jiraiya, and probably was the one ensuring that Sarada was involved in each arc. He did not take the decresing finicanl support from the company like not having an editor after a certain point well. So his attitude caused him to lose his job.


Ikemoto was Kishimoto assistant for 15 years; he did the backgrounds. He was the one that agreed to take over the sequel so Kishi didn't have to do it. I suspect he is at least partially responsible for the ending; as he probably convinced Kishi to go with what he thought was popular. So he can have the most successful and easiest position. Of course it backfired. Kawaki/Nail is his character. He is obsessed with making the story what he perceives to be cool while not really putting in much effort. From I understand he has gain a rep as a lazy uncreative tracing hack that seems very very fond of young girls.


What I disagree with you on is that TV Tokyo was collaborating with Studio Pierrot to have that happen, not that Studio Pierrot has nothing to do with it.  What happened to Blue Dragon is purely SP's initiative, because as they've shown us throughout Naruto/Boruto's run, they have established a notable precedent of bias when it comes to their depiction of assertive women vs non-confrontational, big-boobed fanservice. With Blue Dragon,  they did more than rewrite the romantic dynamic of Kluke and Shu's relationship, they completely altered Kluke's character into a tsundere for no apparent reason and made her a healer instead of an offensive magic caster as she is the original canon of the games.  Whereas with Bouquet, aside from her being an anime-original character created by Pierrot for fanservice and to be nothing but an obsessive love interest for Shu, her ability literally revolved around her getting butt-naked and then later on, she got the power to transform into whatever she sees (including a version of Kluke with a larger bust, which is SP's infantile way of saying "Shu doesn't need the real Kluke since our OC can become a better/sexier version of her if she wants to") and copy any Shadow power that she wants. You even have the villains of the series constantly commenting on how hot she was during the series' run. In other words, she was a complete Mary Sue.


Then you got Twin Star Exorcist, where they made Mayura (the soft-spoken, big-boobed childhood friend of Rokuro, the male protagonist) seem more important in the anime than she actually was in the manga, and even tried to suggest that Rokuro had feelings for her when he's completely oblivious to her and primarily focused on Benio in the source material.   They even mildly attempted this in Black Clover's anime adaptation at first before they were shut down by Tabata, who's one of the few Japanese creators to openly confront and criticize any changes to an adaptation on social media.


Point that I'm making is that this is all SP's prerogative, where they take liberties to facilitate their own barely concealed fetishes when it comes to female characters.

They apparently did the same thing with Tokyo Ghoul. And damaged the story so bad that the mangaka had to reset the manga with a part two to try again, which they again screwed up that anime's part two, and then the mangaka had beg people to see the live action movie to show his story was good.


SP is the ones doing it as they are the ones making the anime that go against the manga's story. Tv Tokyo are the distributors their crime is only not putting their foot down and stopping it.

#990583 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 10 September 2023 - 07:17 PM

Kishimoto should no longer work on the Naruto franchise if he is not going to create characters that he likes. Just look at the Minato one-shot, which is basically a Kushina story. He probably doesn't want to work with Sasuke and Sakura, and Naruto and Hinata, because they traumatized him while he was writing. So, he should leave it to these light novel writers who make these official fanfics of these couples and use his name to sell. Boruto is a different case, because he only lends his name, while his assistant and Pierrot make money, while he should be enjoying life with his family. After all, the best of his assistants, who made Rock Lee SD and Samurai 8, are not even in Boruto.


Saruto is the name that fans gave to a supposed son of Boruto and Sarada. It is a joke that many fans made when they discovered that the name of Naruto's son is Boruto. So, they said that the son of Boruto would be Saruto.

The oneshot was a MK story and was the result of how that poll turned out; Minato in first and Sakura in third. Giving him both confidence and range to do what he wanted.


Samurai 8 was him as the writer and one of his assistance as the artist, it flopped.


The SD if they are still ongoing, can only really be successful if the main story is popular enough to support a tongue and cheek parody.


Boruto, he is either an advisor or a writer going along with what Ikemoto wants. 


I would say Kishimoto is more bitter than traumatized about how his characters turned out. He knew it was a bad idea but 6 or so years from people around him pushing for it, convinced him to do it, and everything that has happened since then has shown that to been the worse choice he could have made for his manga. He also can't do anything about it, even if he wanted to or had the will, till the sequel is over.


The light novels? Judging by the two manga adaptation of two of the light novels, keeping Kishi would be better. One was a poorly plotted fanfic with creepy implications and the other was a dull as dish water.

#990564 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 06 September 2023 - 05:21 PM

Thanks for the info  :happy:


For the One Piece live action, I'm not a fan but I did watch all episodes and I must admit that I enjoy it a lot. It does show that the people that worked on it were dedicated to pull out something great and it did show in the end!


As for the Naruto love adaptation, seriously, while it is still an early stage, I can't help but to wish it never comes to light but if it does, knowing that such person, that did bad on previous works, might do the same for Naruto live action, help to calm my overall hate that another project about Naruto might be produced.


I doubt they are hoping to make it another Dragon Ball Evolution just to motivate Kishimoto to come back as again, they are trying to make products to bring money into the franchise, hoping for it to be bad just to bring back the author's motivation would be pretty stupid, even for them. At the very least, that the live action is being produced or not, that it is successful or not, they might try to convince him so that he can do another one shot like he did with Minato since it turned out successful, in terms of the number of people reading it. It would be interesting to see how much the Minato sell, compared to other Naruto/Boruto product since it was an actual project done by Kishimoto, something that wasn't the case in a long time (even with Samourai 8 that was cancelled in 2020?).

From what I understand originally the script was a standard Netflix adaptation ie absolutely nothing like One Piece beyond some characters names and clearly just chosen for the license in order to get some interest. Then Oda became an executive producer and order them to follow his manga story. Then after they finish shooting he order reshoots because they still were trying to change things to make it more "Woke." If Oda hadn't gotten involved it would have become another Cowboy Bebop Netfilx live adaptation.


Oda is friends with Kishimoto so he would probably give him a warning of be involved so they don't do 'that' but how much Kishi will follow that advice is who knows.


The fact that they are putting a writer with basically no experience kind of shows how much they are putting into this. And that Hollywood strike is still going on from what I understand. The movie has been in production hell since the ending. So this show may suffer the same fate. But this is Netflix -most likely- and they have been pushing out poor quality anime live adaptations.


Oh I was making a joke and mocking how this is likely going to be bad. Since, look what happens with most of Netflix anime live action adaptations; as well as what happened to the Witcher, the only writing credit the writer really has to their name.

#990554 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 05 September 2023 - 04:12 AM

They didn't delay it to improve quality; it was just a marketing move because they didn't want to share the spotlight with the One Piece Live Action, the Shibuya Arc of JJK, and the final episodes of Bleach.


Those who live in countries where Saint Seiya was popular will understand what I'm about to say. Saint Seiya was the most popular anime in several countries, more popular than Dragon Ball for a while. However, at a certain point, it lost popularity, and Dragon Ball solidified itself as the most popular, with even Yu Yu Hakusho surpassing it. What I believe will happen with Naruto is that it will lose popularity in Western countries to One Piece, which will eventually become much more popular. Over time, Naruto will be forgotten, primarily due to the way Jump handles the franchise

They already likely know that the audience may have move on. That's why they are doing that 4 episode anime to check. The companies want to find out how well Naruto still sells. The anime staff delaying it just so they don't have to share the 'spotlight' (and see how bad there viewership is) will not please them.

#990527 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 27 August 2023 - 12:42 AM

You know, after watching some older films, I think Naruto suffers from a God complex.


One part of it is this, and it fits Naruto so well.


The person is highly dogmatic in their views, meaning the person speaks of their personal opinions as though they were unquestionably correct

Its a side effect of Naruto's morals not being questioned nor explored.


In theory, Naruto's morality is suppose to be similar to the audiences. The ninja world indoctrinates everyone into seeing themselves as disposable weapons; conditioning them to accept as well as even commit immoral acts. He was such a bad student that he wasn't indoctrinated like the rest; so kept a proper moral compass. That is similar to the author's or at least what he thinks his customers would agree with. However, since Kishi thought everyone would agree with Naruto that meant that he felt Naruto shouldn't be questioned...or didn't realize that it should if for nothing else to help flesh out the story.


Which leads to scenes that can be summed up as:


Naruto: X is wrong.


Other Character: Well, I think-


Naruto: Shut up and just agree with me that X is wrong.


Then the story make it so Naruto is correct about whatever X was.