43 replies to this topic

[tricksie]

So, there have been a few posts that have perfectly summed things up for me. Konohakitten's comment that she can't even like Naruto's kids, and MissSoupy's comment that she can't find joy in Naruto's being hokage really hit home. After looking forward to the final resolution for so long, I'm robbed of even that. I can't be happy for Naruto. Which made me think....

 

Who's really was the main pairing? Was it truly NH, just because Naruto is the main hero and the title character?

 

Or was it SasuSaku, and the NaruHina pairing happened because that's just the way it had to be?

 

Bear with me here....

 

Sasuke is the only one that didn't express a desire for someone or a hope for a future life. He didn't care. Not once. Yet in the end, he is awarded Sakura. The ending revolved entirely around Sasuke's redemption, his voice was carried over the timeskip images and his meagre acknowledgement of Sakura was the only romance that was shown in the manga. 

 

Naruto's last words in the manga were "Sakura-chan." No matter what happens in the movie, it will never exist in the books. Ten years from now, 20 years from now, libaries and used book stores will still have copies of the series. Naruto and Sakura's build up will be there, but never Naruto and Hinata's supposed romance. Just a head-scratching ending that's feels nothing like the rest of the series.

 

So if Naruto's romance, Naruto's storyline was the most important of the book, why wasn't it shown and justified instead of Sasuke's? Sasuke's lack of a prison sentence is explained. His decision to continue wandering is show and justified, and his returned interest in Sakura is shown. And then it's the end. Naruto is shown as a rather stern hokage and father, and Hinata is shown as his docile wife. No explanation. 

 

So I've thought about it over the last day and a half: 

 

Sasuke got someone he didn't want, and didn't work for.

 

Naruto didn't get who he wanted, though he'd worked his hardest.

 

Who's was the most important pairing? Was it NH, and then SS had to happen? Or was it in fact another tip to Sasuke in a long line of thing's going unfairly in Sasuke's direction, and then pairing Naruto and Hinata is just the natural consequence?

 

It's just a thought, but I'm curious, in the end, looking at it as a whole, who was the more important character here? Sasuke's story is fully resolved, but Naruto's story ends with the audience (well, me at least) unable to take joy in his future.

 

So who got the relationship of their dreams, who saw the fulfillment of his heart's wish? Sasuke or Naruto? Or neither? In the end, which was the main pairing? NH and then SS? Or was it SS which opened the door for NH?

[Swagkura]

Honestly, I think it was SasuSaku then NaruHina. SasuSaku at least had some type of developement(albeit VERY negative), throughout the whole series, but the thing that set it back the most was the constant reminder of Sasuke's non-existent feelings for Sakura. NaruHina would only be brought up when Hinata had an appearance, which was hardly that much. SasuSaku being a pairing apart of the main characters really solidifies it as the primary pairing for me. NaruHina only happened because Kishi most likely didn't want Naruto to be left alone with nobody at the end.

[Illnevergiveup3]

neither one of them got what they wanted. Naruto didn't get Sakura-Chan but he loves her and always will. Sasuke probably just wanted to have offspring to carry on his name. Sakura-Chan is most likely missing Naruto and regretting her choice lol. HINATA is just a sad case on her own and as long as she is with Naruto it doesn't matter that Naruto is clearly avoiding her and trying to stay in the office as long as he can.

[Miss Soupy]

It kinda feels like neither pairing was all that important. I say that based on their lack of in-story development - if Kishimoto had felt these pairings were important, I can only assume he'd make sure they received the correct amount of material support. SS was impossible to support, as up to the last chapter Sasuke hadn't been saved. Even after that, there wasn't any indication that Sasuke loved Sakura. People might claim you are meant to assume so, given that they ended up with a child, but the scenes Kishimoto chose to show of end-game Sasuke were him as a wanderer and absent father. Clearly family life was not important for Sasuke's conclusion. I'm not even quite sure what to make of his 'sound in the bushes' moment, if that is meant to mean something like...he's still unsettled, still in danger for his life, or just left with paranoia. It's not clear.

 

I found it extremely strange that Sasuke's end moments had nothing to do with Naruto...especially since the entire story focuses around those two. No matter what SS fans can say, Sasuke's canon most important relationship has been, and will always be Naruto. Sakura, I think, was just paired with him out of convenience. The same with Hinata and Naruto. It's for the children of the next gen to keep the story going. It's basically allowing for Naruto GT. Need spawn to continue the story.

 

As far as NH...Kishi had more room to work with these two, as neither one of them was an absent villain, and they had opportunity to interact in a normal way. Only...they didn't. For every NH moment, there were double, if not triple NS moments. NH was completely one-sided the entire manga...and apparently needed a movie in order to change that. Regardless of Kishimoto's involvement in the movie, the manga should contain what is neccessary for the story. Excuses like 'he ran out of time' shouldn't matter - it's HIS manga! Choosing to have a movie after the fact just tells me he sold out for money and additional hype. As far as the manga is concerned, NH wasn't important. Even in 700 they weren't shown together as a happy family. Naruto acted...nothing like Naruto. Hinata's place in the world...well we simply don't know what she has accomplished other than having Naruto's children. Same with Sakura.

 

I guess my opinion is that these pairings were thrown together for the next generation. It's basically a non-ending. Kishimoto's priorities became something different, and the consistency of the story suffered for it.

 

If I had to pick which pairing was more important to the story...I'd have to pick SS, simply because it actually motivated plot in some form, unlike NH. Sakura had both Naruto and Sasuke in mind when she chose to get serious about being a ninja, and saving Sasuke was the the main motivation/obstacle for the main character.

 

One thing I noticed about the ending was that Sasuke was the only main character to benefit from the resulting pairings. Sasuke was technically no longer a villain. He was still loved by Naruto and Sakura, regardless of his actions. He was...at peace (I think?).

 

Naruto - the main character, the hero - ended up with a minor character. That is a step down, regardless of how nice Hinata is. She is a minor character...and not the character the hero was shown to be in love with for the entirety of the manga. Naruto gave up on something he wanted. He settled. Naruto's character lost something.

 

Sakura...well, most people understand how disappointing she became as a character. She regressed to a fangirl equal to her part 1 self. She put herself down in front of Sasuke, being reduced to a blushing, nervous girl in his presence. That's EARLY part 1 Sakura. She lost all development from the Forest of Death onwards just from 699 alone. She tanked as a character.

Edited by Miss Soupy, 09 November 2014 - 06:08 AM.

[Strangelove]

Neither...the relationship looks empty. No real interaction amongst each other.

 

I bet that when Naruto was told his child was causing problems he thought. "I have one of those? OH GOD I HAVE TWO OF THOSE!!!"

 

There isn't even a mention that Sasuke even sends a letter or anything to Sakura...it feels like it was a one night fling and that was it...
 

[rocci]

NS.

But sadly NS is not that popular.

So kishi make nh & ss canon.

And then pair NS in the form of burito x salad for part 3.

[Lady Lys]

Imo it was NH, I have a hunch that it was the first to be decided in this absurd hell of a finale, and then came SS who would act as the people pleaser.
Nobody is happy there, not Sakura, not Sasuke, not Naruto and i'm rationalizing not even Hinata is truly happy.
I realized why it is that I can't even look at her, it's because she had potential, she had the potential to show that a woman is more than just a husk who thinks only about her crush. Kishi could have done marvelous things with her, he could have shown us the path of a young girl who matured and went beyond what fans expected from her, a girl who would honour the death of her cousin anf dedicate herself to manage and better her clan abolishing the cage seal and being a fair and just head for her Hyuuga.
I feel that both she and Sakura should have represented the growth of a girl into a woman and while Sakura showcases the growth of a girl into a kunoichi, into a doctor and a fighter, Hinata should have shown the growth into a leader. And that's why I realized that she's the character that deluded me above all others. We should have had Sakura the head medic and Hinata the clan leader, and instead we got Sakura the housewife and Hinata the NOTHING.
As a woman this disgusts me and deludes me more than everything else Kishimoto could have done. So yeah, bad ending, no WORST ending ever.

[lord287]

I think SS happened first then NH, because I don't think Naruto would have suddenly moved on, until he was sure that their is nothing more left for him to do to prove Sakura he loves her. When he completed POAL we saw how Sakura just forgot Naruto, so maybe Naruto thought it is better to move on now, since his Sakura-chan was happy and then he decided to settle for Hinata.

 

So for me I think SS turned out to be the main pairing, which is so much worse then an open ending/NS

[archangel]

NS was the main pairing, then Kishi switch the main character in the end making Sasuke get the girl of his rival and give him the second best thing for him without having anyone say I love you because he know it is bull.

[Aizen-Sama]

SasuSaku. It was the only way NH could've happened And had more relevance within Team 7.
As much as it makes me sick to say it you could see the series as Naruto bringing his two teammates together while being caught in a love triangle with them. NaruHina happened because Naruto couldn't get the girl--Hinata was a character that had less relevance than Shikamaru and hardly interacted with Naruto. She only became his love interest at the very end.
This is the only thing that makes me happy: Sakura-haters had wanted Naruto to reject Sakura because he loved Hinata (LOL); instead it was the other way around. Sakura forgot Naruto because she still had her sick love for Sasuke. With at least this I hope the Sakura-haters will forever burn with their hatred..never having gotten their revenge of seeing Sakura scorned.
Still...it all sucks ass for Naruto. :(

[KnS]

Naruto's last words in the manga were "Sakura-chan." 

 

All the damning evidence summed up in one small moment.  Kishimoto's ultimate betrayal of Naruto -- his character, his feelings, his hopes and dreams -- continues to bewilder and sicken me whenever it crosses my mind.

It's just a thought, but I'm curious, in the end, looking at it as a whole, who was the more important character here? Sasuke's story is fully resolved, but Naruto's story ends with the audience (well, me at least) unable to take joy in his future.

 

Exactly.  I personally don't see how anyone who was a fan of Naruto (the character) could be happy or remotely satisfied with the manga's conclusion.  I believe it can only be a positive outcome for readers who preferred Sasuke and Hinata.  Everything, in the end, was about them.

 

To answer your main question, I'm sure you already know what I think.  Sasuke reigned over the entire story, so in the end SS was the main pairing.

 

The entire manga was written with SS and NH as unworkable and/or unwanted by one side of the relationship, while NS was the pairing of focus and mutual growth throughout. Here again, reading the story believing Naruto was the hero and looking toward the conclusion with his feelings and goals in mind, how was this ending logically foreseeable?

 

Even if -- and this is a big IF -- Naruto accepted that after everything that had happened Sakura still loved Sasuke in #693, why did we not got some indication of his realization at any point?  Why was there no panel where we saw that he understood, accepted it, and knew there was no point to confess? Or a moment where he acknowledged that he was at least happy that she would be happy?

 

But, as you said, we got no explanation in the end.  Naruto was ignored so that, in the final moments of the manga, Sasuke could be glorified.

[Niky]

Sasuke, Sasuke, Sasuke, SASUKE (manga's title).

Everything was done for the sake of SASUKE.

 

And Pierrot animators and (maybe) some major SJ editor loved Hinata, so...

 

Naruto... You would have been better like heroic martyr DEAD.

Now you are a LOSER (but to Hinata fans the luckiest, naturally).

Edited by Niky, 09 November 2014 - 12:07 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

In all honesty, NS had this one in the bag. Something must have happened and maybe we will never know why.

[Iwantbuns]

I think NaruHina came first. And SasuSaku fit with that.

[Cherry-Bloss93]

Regardless of Kishimoto's involvement in the movie, the manga should contain what is neccessary for the story.

^^^THIS

[elmas]

It's so obvious.SS is the main pairing.NH happened after. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

I believe the idea of a movie being connected was a red flag that something went down and made him reroute for the outcome that we have today. In short, one would know that the plot in the original source should forever remain intact and forever be the source of all. If the DB, including latest one, tells you the otherwise result/potential, then you know something went wrong.

[Saku-chan]

Because of Sasuke and Sakura's status as both Team 7 members who have a bit of development between them, I would say that they feel like the 'main' pairing. We've always joked (or been completely serious) about Sasuke's tendency to hijack the focus. Naruto and Hinata are only 'main' because the series bears Naruto's name.

 

I think that Kishi's goal was always to have a next generation after Naruto's because what would be the point of him going through all of this effort to break the cycles established in that world's history if he isn't shown passing that on? NS would have left Sasuke out. I didn't see him getting together with anyone other than Sakura in canon. (Maybe Karin if they'd been given more development) If NS happened, he'd be left out of being able to contribute to the next generation with his own child. I am totally ok with this. He could still contribute in his own way. A child is hardly the only way to make a difference in the world, but it's a really easy way to draw empathy out of readers. "Oh he has a daughter now! How touching!" It would be an easy way to redeem him in reader's eyes.

 

Hinata would also be left out, or paired with someone random (or Kiba imo) which would make a lot of her fans FURIOUS. 

 

I have a theory that Hinata was born out of Sakura's initial unpopularity. I feel like Kishi was instructed to make other female characters and have one who's cute who likes Naruto to 'give him a break' on the romance front. Let's be real. In the beginning, Sakura was brutal. She was also considered uncute by Kishi's assistants. So, he made Hinata, but he also didn't give up on Sakura as the heroine. He gave her back story focus and fleshed out her friendship with Ino which was pretty nice for a shonen manga.

 

Thankfully, Kishi gave Hinata a really good back story which also served to introduce Neji and some of the darker sides of Konoha.  She's an extremely sympathetic character. From the beginning we see how she is emotionally and physically abused by her family for things that aren't her fault. If you don't feel bad for her, you're inhuman. But, after that she got scant focus. At this point, Hinata is effectively a blank slate who likes Naruto. Readers are free to project a personality onto her. She is inevitably given far fewer flaws than Sakura is given in canon and because her character is largely this nebulous, fandom-created entity, she can be all things to all fans. Hell, I'm guilty of this. I often find myself loving her character for the potential of it rather than what is actually shown on screen. 

 

Furthermore, people conveniently forget that Sakura also suffered bullying and had crap self-esteem. It wasn't nearly as bad as Hinata, but she still had problems. Sakura merely had Ino help her. I think that the difference between how Sakura and Hinata reacted to their low self esteem also contributes to the popularity of their characters. Hinata evokes strong feelings of wanting to protect her because she doesn't defend herself. It's heartbreaking and understanding considering her situation. Sakura, however, learns to own her perceived flaws and turn it into a weapon. If there's anything that pisses readers off, it's a confident female making mistakes and not being taken down a few notches. It stirs all sorts of feelings of dislike for women who haven't reciprocated a 'nice guy's feelings. They don't want to relate to someone who makes mistakes. They don't want to see how human she is. This is the reason why I side eye fans who hate Sakura and love Hinata. There's most likely misogyny going on there.

 

To wrap this all up, Sakura's initial bad reputation and Hinata's blank slate status, went against NS for the large audience of casual fans who really like Hinata and wanted to see her get a good end romantically. On the surface Sakura being patient for her love to redeem himself sounds admirable, but when you get into it you realize how utterly uninterested Sasuke is and how close Sakura is to admitting that she has romantic feelings for Naruto. (Sai and Yamato, you tried so hard and got so far, but in the end we are going to have to make it matter instead of the epilogue.)

 

tl;dr SS feels main because it's Team 7. NH is only billed as main because Naruto is in it.

[Awes9]

I think none of them was, Kishi changed his mind at the last moment for obscure reasons (popularity and money most likely) and now he's trying to make up for it in a movie because he had no intention to develop these pairings at first and found no place in the manga to make them happen.
That also explains why we got the kushina tease and the cpr moment, Kishi had already those in mind and instead of changing the course Kishi maintained it and asspulled NH and SS. It explains 615 and Neji's death as well Kishi needed something for NH and the only way he found was the death of a character and Ooc Naruto so Hinata can shine and give a basis for NH.
Now Rtn makes sense Kishi really wanted to parallel NS/MK in the manga but he never had the chance to, Rtn contains Kishi's ideas that he never had the chance to include in the manga

[HokageSoulReaper]

SS......not only it includes 2 main characters, but it is/was at one point the most popular hetero pairing worldwide (as I think NaruSaku eventually surpassed it at least in Japan)

 

Even with Naruto being the main protagonist, I just don't feel NH as main, it feels more like an afterthought or like the most important side couple in the series (role which should have been occupied by ShikaTema)