54175 replies to this topic

[Phantom_999]

MAN, was that plot HORRIBLE!!! I hated it Everyone was ooc af

Edited by Phantom_999, 25 January 2019 - 02:33 AM.

[Derock]

MAN, was that plot HORRIBLE!!! I hated it Everyone was ooc af

 

It was. Not only that, it was all about reviving Cedric, who wasn't even relevant since Book 4! Thank goodness I rented the ebook from Overdrive app to see how bad it was because it would be a waste of my money if I ever purchased it.

[LuckyChi7]

I remember there was so much hype around it when it came out. 

[tricksie]

I'd be okay with that because Harry and Hermione were supposed to end up together and they had the best development and chemistry of any couple in that series.

 

Edit: And this isn't just me "shipping". Harry Potter is similar to Naruto in the aspect that it built up a certain couple (Harry/Hermione & NaruSaku) and then completely disregarded them in the ending. 

Oh, I remember reading one where Harry and Hermione were supposed to get together in her true ending, but she got lazy and didn't do it. Even in the movies, Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson had better chemistry then she ever did with Rupert Grint.

 

Honestly, I never felt any chemistry for any of them. They all seemed better suited as friends. In the book and in the movies. 

 

And looking back on it, comparing HP with so many other series that have come and gone since HP was written, I'm kind of glad that the shipping aspect was underwhelming. There are so many other stories where shipping has ultimately consumed the story. Case in point, Naruto. But there are lots of others where the main character's goal is undermined by the eventual pay-off of who s/he gets together with. Again, like Naruto.

 

But I think by keeping HP's shipping at arm's length from the real plot — meaning that whether anyone got together or not, it wouldn't change the story a single bit — it kept the story true to its original goal of telling the story of Harry Potter. So people can still love it years later. Not so with Naruto, unfortunately. The shipping destroyed the whole story, and replaced any goals that Naruto had with fan service endings.

[Derock]

 

Honestly, I never felt any chemistry for any of them. They all seemed better suited as friends. In the book and in the movies. 

 

And looking back on it, comparing HP with so many other series that have come and gone since HP was written, I'm kind of glad that the shipping aspect was underwhelming. There are so many other stories where shipping has ultimately consumed the story. Case in point, Naruto. But there are lots of others where the main character's goal is undermined by the eventual pay-off of who s/he gets together with. Again, like Naruto.

 

But I think by keeping HP's shipping at arm's length from the real plot — meaning that whether anyone got together or not, it wouldn't change the story a single bit — it kept the story true to its original goal of telling the story of Harry Potter. So people can still love it years later. Not so with Naruto, unfortunately. The shipping destroyed the whole story, and replaced any goals that Naruto had with fan service endings.

 

I felt the same way too. I read the books and watched the movies. Despite many fans claiming that Harry and Hermione has better chemistry, very noticeable in Book 3, but I saw Ron and Hermione a mile away in Book 4. and Harry was "chasing" after Cho (more like Cho was crushing at him, can't remember) before Ginny grew up. 

 

But unlike Naruto, there weren't any character regression and themes weren't thrown out the window for an unimportant character in Harry Potter. However, I do know that a lot of people were mad about the deaths. Recall when one fan committed suicide after reading the spoilers for Book 7?

[jak123]

 

I felt the same way too. I read the books and watched the movies. Despite many fans claiming that Harry and Hermione has better chemistry, very noticeable in Book 3, but I saw Ron and Hermione a mile away in Book 4. and Harry was "chasing" after Cho (more like Cho was crushing at him, can't remember) before Ginny grew up. 

 

But unlike Naruto, there weren't any character regression and themes weren't thrown out the window for an unimportant character in Harry Potter. However, I do know that a lot of people were mad about the deaths. Recall when one fan committed suicide after reading the spoilers for Book 7?

I disagree with the book 4. Ron and Hermione came out of nowhere in book 6. All of a sudden she was annoyed that Ron was kissing some other girl. Same goes for Harry and Ginny. If anything, in book 4 it showed how close Harry and Hermione was. She was the most concerned about his fight with the dragon, going as far as embracing him because of how scared she was for him and she seemed to be more concerned about how she looked to Harry than Ron during the Yule Ball. That was more noticeable in the movie. Book 2 also had a nice moment where Harry was the most concerned after Hermione was petrified and sat in the infirmary next to her bed holding her petrified hand.  Hell, book 7 was the most blatant about it. After Ron abandons them, their romantic dance in the tent was supposed to be where they realized their feelings for each other if Rowling had done her real ending. While Ron kittened out, Hermione never left Harry's side. They even had a moment when they were at his parent's grave.

[LuckyChi7]

Man what Kishi tried to do with NaruSaku sadly being a red herring, but Toriyama managed to do successfully in Dragon Ball Super with Trunks & Mai! 

 

[VanitasDS76491]

Resurrection "F" was definitely one of the most egregious examples of power scaling (Frieza himself, just to be made into an actual threat to give reason for using him again besides purely nostalgia) while simultaneously contradicting previous things like Gohan's power dropping somehow being FAR greater after one year from Buu to then, compared to seven years from Cell to Buu.
And I know I'm in a minority but I tend to call people out on such things when it comes to Resident Evil 6. Obviously it's by no means one of the greatest games ever but I constantly see people bashing RE6 but the reasons they give for why it's "bad" are things that could also be applied to RE4, but they continue to call RE4 a "masterpiece".

6 wasn't the worst game in the series ya it was dumb but there are worst games in the series like dead aim and operation raccoon city.
The only thing that 4 did well was the game play cause isn't really that good after so long.

[VanitasDS76491]

Man what Kishi tried to do with NaruSaku sadly being a red herring, but Toriyama managed to do successfully in Dragon Ball Super with Trunks & Mai! 
 

Toriyama isn't a hack like kishi, heck Oda is leagues better than kishi.

[VanitasDS76491]

The thing that annoys me most about the Sakura hitting Naruto argument is that other Tsundere type characters are not held to that same standard. Kayko hitting Yusuke? Forgot about that. Kagome's sits? It's funny. Kaoru beating Kenshin with a boken? Luv. Some at least will attack other tusnderes, but for some reason Sakura is put up as the poster child of abusive tsunderes when there have been far worse. 
 
Another argument that does them no favors is that if Hinata didn't get with Naruto, she would be lonely and might even kill herself.
 
Uh, that's not the trait of an endearing character. That is someone in need of serious psychotherapy.
 
Another: "Hinata loved him first, so Naruto HAS to return his feelings!"
 
So, wouldn't that mean Sakura had to return Naruto's feelings because he loved her first 
 
Granted, they'd probably refer to that scene in the Last, but still it's a stupid reason.
 
Another one: Hinata is super strong! Imagine how powerful their children could become!
 
Yes, I remember as clear as day when Hinata whooped Neji's a-oh, wait a minute! Neji trounced her!
But still, Hiashi recognized her as a prodi-No, she wasn't! Hiashi was VERY disappointed with her!
Still, it was incredible when she held her own against Sasori...No wait, that was Sakura, never mind!
But how about the time she destroyed the training field...oh wait. Sakura again.
But she showed incredible strenght against Pain...No she didn't, She was one-hit KO'd.
But in the anime, she kept taking hits...Taking hits doesn't mean jack if you don't land a deciding blow.
Oh, but how about the time she figured out the abilities of the White Zet-Sakura again, keep trying.
 
But Boruto and Naruto how scary she gets when she's angry!...Okay...then why not get with Sakura?
 
Really, these "fans" treat these two like their cattle they need to breed. They wanted OP children, they got them, with asinine writing to boot. And how come Hinata is given credit for all these feats when canon did nothing to support them? Why are all these great achievements off-screen? It reminds me when Nostalgia Critic did that Lex Luthor scene from BvS:
 
(Lex Luthor describes all he did in the movie) And the best part of it all, is that I did it ALL OFF-SCREEN, SO NOT EVEN I KNOW HOW I DID ALL THIS IMPOSSIBLE kitten!

I recall when all those other mangaka made their own illustrations to "celebrate" the end of Naruto, one had a picture of the Konoha Eleven running up triumphantly...while Naruto and Hinata tripped and fell over into the dirt.
 
Not only does this support your theory, but it's a perfect metaphor for how Naruto was NEVER the star of his own manga. He got left in the dust by everyone else (though I wouldn't say any of them came out good), and settled for someone at his level rather than getting back up.

Ya that hinata killing herself if she didn't get Naruto thing can just kitten off, cause if they think that they don't hold the character in high regard. Plus hinata if she did do that for that reason was worthless.

[Phantom_999]

 

Honestly, I never felt any chemistry for any of them. They all seemed better suited as friends. In the book and in the movies. 

 

And looking back on it, comparing HP with so many other series that have come and gone since HP was written, I'm kind of glad that the shipping aspect was underwhelming. There are so many other stories where shipping has ultimately consumed the story. Case in point, Naruto. But there are lots of others where the main character's goal is undermined by the eventual pay-off of who s/he gets together with. Again, like Naruto.

 

But I think by keeping HP's shipping at arm's length from the real plot — meaning that whether anyone got together or not, it wouldn't change the story a single bit — it kept the story true to its original goal of telling the story of Harry Potter. So people can still love it years later. Not so with Naruto, unfortunately. The shipping destroyed the whole story, and replaced any goals that Naruto had with fan service endings.

 

 

 

I felt the same way too. I read the books and watched the movies. Despite many fans claiming that Harry and Hermione has better chemistry, very noticeable in Book 3, but I saw Ron and Hermione a mile away in Book 4. and Harry was "chasing" after Cho (more like Cho was crushing at him, can't remember) before Ginny grew up. 

 

But unlike Naruto, there weren't any character regression and themes weren't thrown out the window for an unimportant character in Harry Potter. However, I do know that a lot of people were mad about the deaths. Recall when one fan committed suicide after reading the spoilers for Book 7?

 

Again, I must also bring up the fact that the plot of HP was not DECIMATED to make couples canon. You don't see J.K. Rowling justify how Harry and Ginny became a couple for instance by retconning the story later by saying Harry knew he was a wizard since he was 5 years old and knew Ginny since they were kids but forgot about her. It's not like Ron was the "bad boy" that tries to kill Hermione on occasion when he felt like it and generally kicks down her self esteem and self worth when she tries to be nice to him, but he gives one half assed sorry and all is forgiven so Hermione green lights him to make out with and impregnate her 

 

My point is NO piece of fiction that I can think of blows up it's own story consistency just to "reason out" why X gets together with Y. In a similar vein when canon is also destroyed to dismantle a couple, Fans react similarly, especially if it is a WELL KNOWN couple that people love seeing together and have such development and chemistry that they seem to be able to tie the knot and hold it for the rest of theirs lives. (I'm looking at YOU, "One More Day" comic) 

 

@ Derock- Or how about the fact that Voldemort, who gives no kittens about nor shows ANY THOUGHTS AND INTEREST IN LOVE or even SEX for that matter impregnates Bellatrix. Especially considering in "Half-Blood Prince" Bellatrix seems to practically outright state that she has no children. Remember? She said that IF she had any child, she would gladly give them into service for her "beloved master".

Edited by Phantom_999, 14 June 2019 - 10:24 PM.

[dl316bh]

DragonBall is usually the prime example, claiming that Kishimoto was inspired by VegetaxBulma (not realizing he hated DragonBall Freiza saga and thereafter), and trying to compare Chi-Chi to Hinata (uh, NO).

 

I assume they were trying to push the "well Chi-Chi just came out of nowhere and married Goku" thing, right? Because I don't know how else anyone could try to compare those two characters without being completely out of their mind. Their personalities are polar opposites. Even the "well Chi-Chi wasn't in Dragonball much" connection is suspect, because she showed up a couple times, had actual interactions with the object of her crush, extracted a marriage promise from Goku (who didn't understand at the time, but followed through) and was proactive enough to track his ass down at the World Martial Arts Tournament when they were both teenagers and even fought him in one of the official rounds when she got upset he didn't recognize her. Chi-Chi gets s*** done, man, even with as little screentime as she had pre-Z and with as little focus as was put on anything resembling romance. Hinata was just, well... she sure did exist.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

 

I assume they were trying to push the "well Chi-Chi just came out of nowhere and married Goku" thing, right? Because I don't know how else anyone could try to compare those two characters without being completely out of their mind. Their personalities are polar opposites. Even the "well Chi-Chi wasn't in Dragonball much" connection is suspect, because she showed up a couple times, had actual interactions with the object of her crush, extracted a marriage promise from Goku (who didn't understand at the time, but followed through) and was proactive enough to track his ass down at the World Martial Arts Tournament when they were both teenagers and even fought him in one of the official rounds when she got upset he didn't recognize her. Chi-Chi gets s*** done, man, even with as little screentime as she had pre-Z and with as little focus as was put on anything resembling romance. Hinata was just, well... she sure did exist.

She freaking walked up and slapped Evil Buu, not fearing him at all.

'nuff said.

[dl316bh]

She freaking walked up and slapped Evil Buu, not fearing him at all.

'nuff said.

 

Compare and contrast to the one time Hinata tried to stand up to a major villain, gave a speech and confession, then rushed forward just to get punked immediately without even getting a hit in.

 

Trying to compare them in any way is just such an insane prospect; say what you want about Chi-Chi, but the lady has a spine of steel. She's not meek about dealing with the people she loves, either. She'll get her hands dirty to keep everyone in line. Handy, given she's married to a manchild - a lovable one, of course - and has had a couple of kids with a habit of getting wrapped up in dangerous, deadly conflicts on a semi-regular basis. She got a little annoying from time to time but for the most part Chi-Chi's awesome.

[Phantom_999]

 

I assume they were trying to push the "well Chi-Chi just came out of nowhere and married Goku" thing, right? Because I don't know how else anyone could try to compare those two characters without being completely out of their mind. Their personalities are polar opposites. Even the "well Chi-Chi wasn't in Dragonball much" connection is suspect, because she showed up a couple times, had actual interactions with the object of her crush, extracted a marriage promise from Goku (who didn't understand at the time, but followed through) and was proactive enough to track his ass down at the World Martial Arts Tournament when they were both teenagers and even fought him in one of the official rounds when she got upset he didn't recognize her. Chi-Chi gets s*** done, man, even with as little screentime as she had pre-Z and with as little focus as was put on anything resembling romance. Hinata was just, well... she sure did exist.

 

at least Chi-chi was never made to be more relevant than she actually was by her loony fanatics, nor was her back story retconned to her being some goddess of limitless fighting potential, JUST to have her outshine Bulma as the heroine of the franchise

[KClaws_2]

 

I assume they were trying to push the "well Chi-Chi just came out of nowhere and married Goku" thing, right? Because I don't know how else anyone could try to compare those two characters without being completely out of their mind. Their personalities are polar opposites. Even the "well Chi-Chi wasn't in Dragonball much" connection is suspect, because she showed up a couple times, had actual interactions with the object of her crush, extracted a marriage promise from Goku (who didn't understand at the time, but followed through) and was proactive enough to track his ass down at the World Martial Arts Tournament when they were both teenagers and even fought him in one of the official rounds when she got upset he didn't recognize her. Chi-Chi gets s*** done, man, even with as little screentime as she had pre-Z and with as little focus as was put on anything resembling romance. Hinata was just, well... she sure did exist.

I also forgot that way, WWAAYYY back in the beginning of DragonBall, she beheaded a motherf***n' T-rex and blew it up!

 

If HInata tried to take on a dinosaur...I don't think it would go too well for her.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

 

Compare and contrast to the one time Hinata tried to stand up to a major villain, gave a speech and confession, then rushed forward just to get punked immediately without even getting a hit in.

 

Trying to compare them in any way is just such an insane prospect; say what you want about Chi-Chi, but the lady has a spine of steel. She's not meek about dealing with the people she loves, either. She'll get her hands dirty to keep everyone in line. Handy, given she's married to a manchild - a lovable one, of course - and has had a couple of kids with a habit of getting wrapped up in dangerous, deadly conflicts on a semi-regular basis. She got a little annoying from time to time but for the most part Chi-Chi's awesome.

And even in her annoying moments, if you look past her over-exaggerated screaming, you can see it's because she loves and cares for her family. She wants them to be able to get by in life without having to rely on fighting and training 24/7 (nor simply mooch off of Mr. Satan later) because that alone won't pay the bills, as well as simply live in general since, as we've seen countless times now, her family and friends have come close to death, or even did die...sometimes more than once...

[Phantom_999]

That brings up a question in my mind actually. How many of these anime fans have doulbe standards between Chi-chi or Bulma even compared to Sakura? How many are willing to over look the Dragoball prominent ladies' less savory personality traits because it is meant to be played for comedy? But fans know they mean well despite being such unpleasable hard cases at times, yet Sakura is a biatch because she shows those exact same character traits but deep down she is a selfless and compassionate young lady? 

 

Wonder how many fans have those effing double standards?

[dl316bh]

I think the splits about the same. Unless things have changed, the last time I was into DBZ, people s*** on Chi-Chi a lot. She got a lot of crap for trying to keep Gohan away from the adventures and to keep him safe and people took the bits clearly meant for comedy seriously. Tsundere-esque characters are a bit more divisive here in the west than in Japan.

[DrK]

I am not a CC fan personally. But the reasons I don't care for her have little to do with the exaggerated violence/screaming. CC and Sakura have something in common in that the actually controversial things about them are overshadowed by people hating on a common anime trope played for humor.

 

Like you aren't going to find a lot of people on YouTube comments and the like saying: "I don't respect Sakura because she married a man who hurt her and who still doesn't care about her," yet there's plenty of "I hate Sakura because she's a dumb b*tch"

Edited by DrK, 29 January 2019 - 04:28 AM.