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#30261 Derock

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Posted 24 May 2022 - 10:11 PM

It just shows the one big flaw of Studio Pierrot's Hinata bias-- they couldn't tell a convincing way for Naruto to fall for Hinata legitimately, so they go out of their way to retcon kitten, ruin Naruto’s relationships outside of Hinata, and turn Naruto into the ultimate Scumbag in the process by stupid crap such as he don't understand love in spite of how empathic he is by having made Zabusa, a heartless killer, break into tears!

 

It not only just that. By character assassinated him (which should had been OFF-LIMITS because he's the titular character) in all in favor for a minor female character who should NOT have a priority in the first place and trashing the main female to the ground because of those said bias.


latest?cb=20140126021943

What's Happening with the Naruto series as of now!


#30262 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 24 May 2022 - 10:39 PM

 
It not only just that. By character assassinated him (which should had been OFF-LIMITS because he's the titular character) in all in favor for a minor female character who should NOT have a priority in the first place and trashing the main female to the ground because of those said bias.


Exactly but even Kishi seemed to hate his own hero at times with how he treated him as well as how he didnt do anything regarding his clan and so much else.

#30263 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 24 May 2022 - 11:08 PM

On another news, latest Boruto volume sold only 67k for first week (7 full days).

That's about ~6% of what typical Naruto volume sales in the same time span (1st week, full 7 days) prior to vol. 64.

A good proxy to indicate 90% - 95% fans have done mass exodus, moving out of the franchise.

The last two volumes of Boruto sold less than 100k before it's thrown out of the top 50 list. The best part? Kishimoto's name was officially on it, replacing the previous editor. lol. As if slapping Kishimoto's name would solve the declining sales issue. It actually accelerates it.

Hinata and NH have practically killed the series. It's clear that Boruto is as good as dead the moment they moved it to VJUMP. It's basically KTLO (keeping the lights on) from that point onwards.
 
We're probably going to see sub 20k sales in first week within 3-5 years if this trend continues. It won't get cancelled. It'll just continue to be the sunken cost for the producer.

By being on that offshoot magazine they lost the ability to attract a new young audience besides the anime being on Sunday. But has anyone seen its competition on that day recently. Which means those declining numbers are the diehards. The "not continuing the contract of Kodaichi," really firing him was a clear sign that this manga was a failure to anyone who realize that.

 

It just shows the one big flaw of Studio Pierrot's Hinata bias-- they couldn't tell a convincing way for Naruto to fall for Hinata legitimately, so they go out of their way to retcon kitten, ruin Naruto’s relationships outside of Hinata, and turn Naruto into the ultimate Scumbag in the process by stupid crap such as he don't understand love in spite of how empathic he is by having made Zabusa, a heartless killer, break into tears!

The problem is that SP refused to allow Hinata to be Naruto's second choice when the story says that what she would be if she ended up with him. If they had done, Sasuke falls in love with Sakura. So, Naruto stepped aside for their happiness and married Hinata instead. They would not have this problem or at least not to this extent.



#30264 MangaReader

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Posted 25 May 2022 - 04:09 AM

I'm positive of one thing... Boruto's biggest flaw isn't actually the pairings, though excuse me when I say I do think they suck. Nah, it's the fact it's trying to, more or less, tell the same tired story Naruto went through while discarding all the characters we grew to like on Naruto's journey. Boruto and company, just by existing, are exponentially more powerful than Naruto, Sasuke, etc. all because, well, they're the "NEW" generation.

 

I'd like to compare it to the far more successful for the time but now seen as a meh series due to the series now having a "true" successor, Dragon Ball GT. At least with GT, when it decided to continue the Dragon Ball storyline, it knew exactly who everyone was rooting for and focused on. Goku, while definitely portrayed as a completely different character and also plot devised into de-aging and maybe given way too much focus, was still the main character. Compare that to how the story treats the title character of it's predecessor, Naruto. Dude literally takes all the L's imaginable despite being god of the ninjaverse. Oh and Kaguya, who was already a plot device used to defeat Madara, she was the weakest, uhh Ōtsutsuki?

 

Seriously, we went from ninja's with the ability to basically do magic... to kittening aliens. And the sales are going down? Who'd a thunk it lol


Edited by MangaReader, 25 May 2022 - 04:09 AM.

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#30265 Kagomaru

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Posted 25 May 2022 - 04:15 AM

Exactly but even Kishi seemed to hate his own hero at times with how he treated him as well as how he didnt do anything regarding his clan and so much else.

He even stated that he found Sasuke more relatable because he couldn't empathize with Naruto's mindset as a paragon. Which is, y'know, his own fault because he deliberately wrote his character in that direction!  :wallbash:


Edited by Kagomaru, 25 May 2022 - 04:17 AM.

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#30266 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 25 May 2022 - 08:50 AM

He even stated that he found Sasuke more relatable because he couldn't empathize with Naruto's mindset as a paragon. Which is, y'know, his own fault because he deliberately wrote his character in that direction!  :wallbash:


Pretty much, but it's not like Sasuke was any better in that regard!

#30267 Phantom_999

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Posted 25 May 2022 - 11:10 AM

 

It not only just that. By character assassinated him (which should had been OFF-LIMITS because he's the titular character) in all in favor for a minor female character who should NOT have a priority in the first place and trashing the main female to the ground because of those said bias.

 

Again, ironic that other manga artists believed in his main heroine, but he didn't listen to them. if a romance can't be done right, might as well not do it at all. The Last IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE of "strangled by the red string" gone wrong.


Edited by Phantom_999, 03 June 2022 - 11:24 PM.

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#30268 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 25 May 2022 - 12:20 PM

 

It not only just that. By character assassinated him (which should had been OFF-LIMITS because he's the titular character) in all in favor for a minor female character who should NOT have a priority in the first place and trashing the main female to the ground because of those said bias.

question any way you can get in touch with smither again since doesn't the 2 year pay on this site end next year



#30269 Nate River

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Posted 25 May 2022 - 02:32 PM

I'm positive of one thing... Boruto's biggest flaw isn't actually the pairings, though excuse me when I say I do think they suck. Nah, it's the fact it's trying to, more or less, tell the same tired story Naruto went through while discarding all the characters we grew to like on Naruto's journey. Boruto and company, just by existing, are exponentially more powerful than Naruto, Sasuke, etc. all because, well, they're the "NEW" generation.

 

I'd like to compare it to the far more successful for the time but now seen as a meh series due to the series now having a "true" successor, Dragon Ball GT. At least with GT, when it decided to continue the Dragon Ball storyline, it knew exactly who everyone was rooting for and focused on. Goku, while definitely portrayed as a completely different character and also plot devised into de-aging and maybe given way too much focus, was still the main character. Compare that to how the story treats the title character of it's predecessor, Naruto. Dude literally takes all the L's imaginable despite being god of the ninjaverse. Oh and Kaguya, who was already a plot device used to defeat Madara, she was the weakest, uhh Ōtsutsuki?

 

Seriously, we went from ninja's with the ability to basically do magic... to kittening aliens. And the sales are going down? Who'd a thunk it lol

 

I generally dislike comparisons to Dragon Ball because its status allows it to get away with things that other series can't. I haven't read Borotu in sometime, but the parts I did convinced me of the same things. That it was just Naruto's journey rehashed with new characters (and the old ones hanging around).

 

The GT team likely knew that from the experience Toriyama had in Z. Toriyama initially tried to end it with Frieza, tried to tank it with an out of nowhere pairing in the Cell sage, tried to kill off Goku permanently to pass the torch, tried writing an arc initially centered around Gohan, and still brought Goku back. My understanding is that fan backlash was so bad that they felt compelled to bring Goku back in the Buu Saga. So, by GT they knew it was Goku or bust. 

 

That said, I agree generally. People can and have done successful next gen stuff, but its both hurt and helped by its predecessor. Yeah, you have a built in audience, but that audience is attached to the previous characters. That attachment hangs over your attempts to create new characters. Avatar was very much like that for me. I liked Aang and Co and since they weren't going to be in Korra very much my interest was already low (some unholy fights in the fandom I saw killed off even that mild interest). For me, I'd be watch muching the same show without the characters I liked. 

 

For Naruto it was the same bit with less likeable characters and worse writing, so I stopped. 

 

As for the powers: yeah, that problem lies at the heart of the Shounen story structure and Hero's Journey form it uses. Dragon Ball wisely abandoned any concept of objective power level by the time it got to Cell because it couldn't be done without being ridiculous. For the most part, power is now relative between characters. But shounen uses has the arc of hero getting ass kicked, getting powered up, and defeating villain. Do that enough times and it's hard not to lose control of ever increasing power levels. Kishimoto's early attempt to focus on strategy and tactics was a good idea that I like, but was abandoned (especially in Part 2) and he lost control of their powers. It a shame because the initial fights were interesting because those kinds of ideas just got lip service it started to move toward who could fire off the biggest jutsu. 

 

EDIT: I'm not sure it about them being the new generation per se. If Boruto was facings the same level off stuff 12 year Naruto did, you always have Naruto and Sasuke able to swoop in an take care of it by farting in the enemies general direction. Those two ended stupidly powerful by the end, which meant you needed threats and circumstances sufficient that they couldn't just waltz in and fix everything (or at least leaving the audience wondering why they aren't doing that).



#30270 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 25 May 2022 - 06:30 PM

I generally dislike comparisons to Dragon Ball because its status allows it to get away with things that other series can't. I haven't read Borotu in sometime, but the parts I did convinced me of the same things. That it was just Naruto's journey rehashed with new characters (and the old ones hanging around).
 
The GT team likely knew that from the experience Toriyama had in Z. Toriyama initially tried to end it with Frieza, tried to tank it with an out of nowhere pairing in the Cell sage, tried to kill off Goku permanently to pass the torch, tried writing an arc initially centered around Gohan, and still brought Goku back. My understanding is that fan backlash was so bad that they felt compelled to bring Goku back in the Buu Saga. So, by GT they knew it was Goku or bust. 
 
That said, I agree generally. People can and have done successful next gen stuff, but its both hurt and helped by its predecessor. Yeah, you have a built in audience, but that audience is attached to the previous characters. That attachment hangs over your attempts to create new characters. Avatar was very much like that for me. I liked Aang and Co and since they weren't going to be in Korra very much my interest was already low (some unholy fights in the fandom I saw killed off even that mild interest). For me, I'd be watch muching the same show without the characters I liked. 
 
For Naruto it was the same bit with less likeable characters and worse writing, so I stopped. 
 
As for the powers: yeah, that problem lies at the heart of the Shounen story structure and Hero's Journey form it uses. Dragon Ball wisely abandoned any concept of objective power level by the time it got to Cell because it couldn't be done without being ridiculous. For the most part, power is now relative between characters. But shounen uses has the arc of hero getting ass kicked, getting powered up, and defeating villain. Do that enough times and it's hard not to lose control of ever increasing power levels. Kishimoto's early attempt to focus on strategy and tactics was a good idea that I like, but was abandoned (especially in Part 2) and he lost control of their powers. It a shame because the initial fights were interesting because those kinds of ideas just got lip service it started to move toward who could fire off the biggest jutsu. 
 
EDIT: I'm not sure it about them being the new generation per se. If Boruto was facings the same level off stuff 12 year Naruto did, you always have Naruto and Sasuke able to swoop in an take care of it by farting in the enemies general direction. Those two ended stupidly powerful by the end, which meant you needed threats and circumstances sufficient that they couldn't just waltz in and fix everything (or at least leaving the audience wondering why they aren't doing that).


Well said, Nate!

#30271 Nostradamus

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Posted 25 May 2022 - 09:55 PM

The legend has returned.

Legend. lol

 

It's been a rough time these pasts months, that continue part wasn't an exaggeration. There were days where I just ... yeah.

And now it got worse right when things looked like they were getting better.

My grandmother had I think in English is a stroke and now my mother and I are taking care of her. And today I don't know if it's because of the medication or what, but I thought we were going to lose her.

Right now I'm crying cause I can for now. I had to stay strong and assure my mother that she's going to be fine.

My grandmother recovered from that moment, she's ok now. I pray she will recover fully and be able to walk on her own.

 

Ah si La Multi Ani Georgiana. Mai tarziu decat trebuia, dar la multi ani.


Edited by Nostradamus, 25 May 2022 - 09:58 PM.

                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#30272 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 25 May 2022 - 11:58 PM

I'm positive of one thing... Boruto's biggest flaw isn't actually the pairings, though excuse me when I say I do think they suck. Nah, it's the fact it's trying to, more or less, tell the same tired story Naruto went through while discarding all the characters we grew to like on Naruto's journey. Boruto and company, just by existing, are exponentially more powerful than Naruto, Sasuke, etc. all because, well, they're the "NEW" generation.

 

I'd like to compare it to the far more successful for the time but now seen as a meh series due to the series now having a "true" successor, Dragon Ball GT. At least with GT, when it decided to continue the Dragon Ball storyline, it knew exactly who everyone was rooting for and focused on. Goku, while definitely portrayed as a completely different character and also plot devised into de-aging and maybe given way too much focus, was still the main character. Compare that to how the story treats the title character of it's predecessor, Naruto. Dude literally takes all the L's imaginable despite being god of the ninjaverse. Oh and Kaguya, who was already a plot device used to defeat Madara, she was the weakest, uhh Ōtsutsuki?

 

Seriously, we went from ninja's with the ability to basically do magic... to kittening aliens. And the sales are going down? Who'd a thunk it lol

The thing is they had a solution to this in the story that if they had focused on Boruto may have actually been successful. Focus on Sarada's journey to become Hokage. Naruto's journey was pretty much abandoned and replace for the chase after Sasuke, and then killed by the last. So, this is a story that the audience didn't really see but they know there is interest in. Instead a repeat of the SNS conflict with a bit more build up, but is so blatant that no one cares about it.

 

I generally dislike comparisons to Dragon Ball because its status allows it to get away with things that other series can't. I haven't read Borotu in sometime, but the parts I did convinced me of the same things. That it was just Naruto's journey rehashed with new characters (and the old ones hanging around).

 

The GT team likely knew that from the experience Toriyama had in Z. Toriyama initially tried to end it with Frieza, tried to tank it with an out of nowhere pairing in the Cell sage, tried to kill off Goku permanently to pass the torch, tried writing an arc initially centered around Gohan, and still brought Goku back. My understanding is that fan backlash was so bad that they felt compelled to bring Goku back in the Buu Saga. So, by GT they knew it was Goku or bust. 

 

That said, I agree generally. People can and have done successful next gen stuff, but its both hurt and helped by its predecessor. Yeah, you have a built in audience, but that audience is attached to the previous characters. That attachment hangs over your attempts to create new characters. Avatar was very much like that for me. I liked Aang and Co and since they weren't going to be in Korra very much my interest was already low (some unholy fights in the fandom I saw killed off even that mild interest). For me, I'd be watch muching the same show without the characters I liked. 

 

For Naruto it was the same bit with less likeable characters and worse writing, so I stopped. 

 

As for the powers: yeah, that problem lies at the heart of the Shounen story structure and Hero's Journey form it uses. Dragon Ball wisely abandoned any concept of objective power level by the time it got to Cell because it couldn't be done without being ridiculous. For the most part, power is now relative between characters. But shounen uses has the arc of hero getting ass kicked, getting powered up, and defeating villain. Do that enough times and it's hard not to lose control of ever increasing power levels. Kishimoto's early attempt to focus on strategy and tactics was a good idea that I like, but was abandoned (especially in Part 2) and he lost control of their powers. It a shame because the initial fights were interesting because those kinds of ideas just got lip service it started to move toward who could fire off the biggest jutsu. 

 

EDIT: I'm not sure it about them being the new generation per se. If Boruto was facings the same level off stuff 12 year Naruto did, you always have Naruto and Sasuke able to swoop in an take care of it by farting in the enemies general direction. Those two ended stupidly powerful by the end, which meant you needed threats and circumstances sufficient that they couldn't just waltz in and fix everything (or at least leaving the audience wondering why they aren't doing that).

People have a misunderstanding of Toriyama and Dragonball.

 

Toriyama wanted to end Dragonball at the first arc but was convinced by his editor to continue. He wanted to end it after the Red Ribbon arc, but was convinced by his editor to continue. He wanted to end it with KIng Piccolo, but was convinced to continue by his editor. He wanted to end it once Goku defeated Piccolo Junior, but was convinced to continue. He wanted to end it with the fight with Vegeta, but was convinced to continue. He wanted to end it after Freeza, but was convinced to continue. He wanted to end it after Cell, but was convinced to continue. He wanted to end it after Buu, he did, finally, but the anime staff wanted to continue with GT which he allowed. Then years later, he got embarrassed by the Live movie adaptation of Dragonball to the point he revitalized Dragonball and made Dragonball Super, which he then passed onto a successor.

 

Toriyama always wanted and planned to end Dragonball on the arc he was on but was convinced by his editors to continue the manga. So, nothing outside the first arc was planned from the start. However, the foundations of the story built by previous arcs worked enough to build the manga we know as Dragonball. Also, his constantly planned ending the just become concluding the arc got him very used to resolving the story. So, when it finally ended most people where fine with it, but also allowed for the story to continue.

 

Naruto's story was abandoned at the last minute for Hinata so her son could be the true main character of the franchise. No satisfactory conclusion to be built off of.

 

Oh the power scale in Boruto has been broken from the start. Generic no name villains are S-Rank missing ninja. He is often fighting Kage level threat on his own or with his team tagging along.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 25 May 2022 - 11:59 PM.


#30273 James S Cassidy

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 01:36 AM

The thing is they had a solution to this in the story that if they had focused on Boruto may have actually been successful. Focus on Sarada's journey to become Hokage. Naruto's journey was pretty much abandoned and replace for the chase after Sasuke, and then killed by the last. So, this is a story that the audience didn't really see but they know there is interest in. Instead a repeat of the SNS conflict with a bit more build up, but is so blatant that no one cares about it.

 

People have a misunderstanding of Toriyama and Dragonball.

 

Toriyama wanted to end Dragonball at the first arc but was convinced by his editor to continue. He wanted to end it after the Red Ribbon arc, but was convinced by his editor to continue. He wanted to end it with KIng Piccolo, but was convinced to continue by his editor. He wanted to end it once Goku defeated Piccolo Junior, but was convinced to continue. He wanted to end it with the fight with Vegeta, but was convinced to continue. He wanted to end it after Freeza, but was convinced to continue. He wanted to end it after Cell, but was convinced to continue. He wanted to end it after Buu, he did, finally, but the anime staff wanted to continue with GT which he allowed. Then years later, he got embarrassed by the Live movie adaptation of Dragonball to the point he revitalized Dragonball and made Dragonball Super, which he then passed onto a successor.

 

Toriyama always wanted and planned to end Dragonball on the arc he was on but was convinced by his editors to continue the manga. So, nothing outside the first arc was planned from the start. However, the foundations of the story built by previous arcs worked enough to build the manga we know as Dragonball. Also, his constantly planned ending the just become concluding the arc got him very used to resolving the story. So, when it finally ended most people where fine with it, but also allowed for the story to continue.

 

Naruto's story was abandoned at the last minute for Hinata so her son could be the true main character of the franchise. No satisfactory conclusion to be built off of.

 

Oh the power scale in Boruto has been broken from the start. Generic no name villains are S-Rank missing ninja. He is often fighting Kage level threat on his own or with his team tagging along.

Combined with the fact that he was originally gonna have Gohan take over Goku's place and let Goku stay dead, but editors and "popularity" caused him to change it. 

Now Gohan does nothing, but be a father. The new movie seems to show him being better, but these characters just get stronger for no reason now.


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#30274 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 03:47 PM

Combined with the fact that he was originally gonna have Gohan take over Goku's place and let Goku stay dead, but editors and "popularity" caused him to change it. 

Now Gohan does nothing, but be a father. The new movie seems to show him being better, but these characters just get stronger for no reason now.


That and I hear Toriyama wants it to be more of a comedy like how it first started as but Ill add that Gohan is a far better dad than Naruto from what we have seen.

Oh and a better husband, I have heard rumours that maybe Pan could take over as the main hero. Since many are not fans of Trunks and Goten.

I hope this film helps erase the hate Pan gets thanks to GT if they can have her grow and make the hate go away then Toriyama will succeed where Kishi failed.

#30275 Phantom_999

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 05:09 PM

Legend. lol

 

It's been a rough time these pasts months, that continue part wasn't an exaggeration. There were days where I just ... yeah.

And now it got worse right when things looked like they were getting better.

My grandmother had I think in English is a stroke and now my mother and I are taking care of her. And today I don't know if it's because of the medication or what, but I thought we were going to lose her.

Right now I'm crying cause I can for now. I had to stay strong and assure my mother that she's going to be fine.

My grandmother recovered from that moment, she's ok now. I pray she will recover fully and be able to walk on her own.

 

Ah si La Multi Ani Georgiana. Mai tarziu decat trebuia, dar la multi ani.

 

I'm so sorry to hear that :sad:


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#30276 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 11:43 PM

Combined with the fact that he was originally gonna have Gohan take over Goku's place and let Goku stay dead, but editors and "popularity" caused him to change it. 

Now Gohan does nothing, but be a father. The new movie seems to show him being better, but these characters just get stronger for no reason now.

Originally, with the Cell arc from what I understand. He wanted it to end with Goku's death, and Gohan taking his place as Protector of Earth. When he was convinced to continued with the Buu arc, Gohan was the main character at the start, but actually focusing on Gohan as a character he realized that, Gohan is a scholar not a warrior. He played with Gohan alone for a very short time before bringing Goku back, but didn't put Goku back as the protagonist till around the fight with Super Buu.

 

So, it wasn't that he was forced to change back to Goku while not allowed to explore Gohan. Its that he tried Gohan as the hero didn't think it worked and eventually went back to Goku...with likely some suggestion from his editors.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 26 May 2022 - 11:43 PM.


#30277 Nostradamus

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 12:02 AM

 

I'm so sorry to hear that :sad:

Thank you. I mean I don't even know what to say.

Today we called a guy who specializes in the after part who helped her a bit to get up and move on her own a bit, hope with time, these exercises and medication that she will be fine.


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These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#30278 James S Cassidy

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 12:19 AM

Originally, with the Cell arc from what I understand. He wanted it to end with Goku's death, and Gohan taking his place as Protector of Earth. When he was convinced to continued with the Buu arc, Gohan was the main character at the start, but actually focusing on Gohan as a character he realized that, Gohan is a scholar not a warrior. He played with Gohan alone for a very short time before bringing Goku back, but didn't put Goku back as the protagonist till around the fight with Super Buu.

 

So, it wasn't that he was forced to change back to Goku while not allowed to explore Gohan. Its that he tried Gohan as the hero didn't think it worked and eventually went back to Goku...with likely some suggestion from his editors.

Gohan is actually a self-insert for the reader if you think about it. Especially for the newer younger audience. Think Boruto, but they instead abandoned Boruto in favor of beefing Naruto more,

Now you just have wasted characters whose whole purpose is to beef up Goku and maybe even Vegeta.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 27 May 2022 - 12:20 AM.

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#30279 Nate River

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 02:41 PM

Originally, with the Cell arc from what I understand. He wanted it to end with Goku's death, and Gohan taking his place as Protector of Earth. When he was convinced to continued with the Buu arc, Gohan was the main character at the start, but actually focusing on Gohan as a character he realized that, Gohan is a scholar not a warrior. He played with Gohan alone for a very short time before bringing Goku back, but didn't put Goku back as the protagonist till around the fight with Super Buu.

 

So, it wasn't that he was forced to change back to Goku while not allowed to explore Gohan. Its that he tried Gohan as the hero didn't think it worked and eventually went back to Goku...with likely some suggestion from his editors.

 

 

I was aware that his editors had pushed him to continue with Z, but not with the original Dragon Ball and didn’t know why Super was made. 



#30280 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 28 May 2022 - 03:59 PM

I was aware that his editors had pushed him to continue with Z, but not with the original Dragon Ball and didn’t know why Super was made.


Ironic, considering even if he was pushed, if Toriyama had stopped too soon, we wouldn't have had such a great Saga, even if I get he was like that.





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