77 replies to this topic

[light.keyblade.master]

These are all interesting points...but this is a Shonen Manga. The main hero/character practically never dies, and almost always realizes their dreams in the end. And Kishomoto is nothing, if not a staunch follower of shonen guidelines.

Hmmm... I dont know i think he has a point...

[Cloud]

Hmmm... I dont know i think he has a point...

What point?

Naruto is somehow a tragic play?

[Nasir]

As far as I could tell, no one has stated that if Naruto died in the end, that the story would suddenly become 'horrible'. The points that were made were that Naruto is a Shonen Manga, and so doesn't follow along the same lines as a Shakespearean tragedy, and really can't be compared as they are two completely different genres. And I understand the point that you're trying to make, but the whole theme of Naruto is to surpass all those who have come before him and died before him. It *really* wouldn't make any sense for Naruto to go through so much, persevere through so much, only to be killed in the end.

I apologize if I was veering off topic, I meant to say that on a side note. Well, its not as if he's going to die a meaningless death (if he were to die). If he does die, that doesn't necessarily mean that all his perseverance, effort, and accomplishments would be in vain.

As for the tragic hero archetype, I wouldn't mind if Kishimoto develops one of his characters to fit the archetype. Many authors have copied this archetype and assigned the traits to their own characters (with a few deviations ofcourse, for example Miller and his rendition of the "modern tragic hero"). Yes, Naruto is a shounen manga, and there's a very small chance that Kishimoto will use Shakespearean elements in his manga, but I would enjoy it if there was some deviation from the typical formula for shounen manga.

[Kori]

I apologize if I was veering off topic, I meant to say that on a side note. Well, its not as if he's going to die a meaningless death (if he were to die). If he does die, that doesn't necessarily mean that all his perseverance, effort, and accomplishments would be in vain.

As for the tragic hero archetype, I wouldn't mind if Kishimoto develops one of his characters to fit the archetype. Many authors have copied this archetype and assigned the traits to their own characters (with a few deviations ofcourse, for example Miller and his rendition of the "modern tragic hero"). Yes, Naruto is a shounen manga, and there's a very small chance that Kishimoto will use Shakespearean elements in his manga, but I would enjoy it if there was some deviation from the typical formula for shounen manga.

exactly i agree completely i would really enjoi Kishi using a character to fit the archetype

[Grizzly1]

hmmm.... the one tragic flaw leads me to believe that the hero would be perfect if not for this flaw. Wasn't many of the shakesperian plays like this?

Achilles would have been fine if he had covered his heel.
Othello would have been fine if he didn't give in to extreme jealousy.
Macbeth would have been fine if he didn't listen to women.

I believe naruto has too many flaws to be a tragic hero. yes, let me say that again, naruto has to many flaws that keep him from having one flaw to concentrate on.

I hope that makes sense

[RyrineaHaruno]

hmmm.... the one tragic flaw leads me to believe that the hero would be perfect if not for this flaw. Wasn't many of the shakesperian plays like this?

Achilles would have been fine if he had covered his heel.
Othello would have been fine if he didn't give in to extreme jealousy.
Macbeth would have been fine if he didn't listen to women.

I believe naruto has too many flaws to be a tragic hero. yes, let me say that again, naruto has to many flaws that keep him from having one flaw to concentrate on.

I hope that makes sense

Yes it does make scene I been trying to tell them that as well.

[Kori]

Yes it does make scene I been trying to tell them that as well.

i don't remember you saying that Naruto had too many flaws. I remember you saying Sasuke was the one who will die though.

[RyrineaHaruno]

i don't remember you saying that Naruto had too many flaws. I remember you saying Sasuke was the one who will die though.

Yay i just try too but yay it was part of my saying that Susake fits the tragic hero

[Kori]

Yay i just try too but yay it was part of my saying that Susake fits the tragic hero

ooooooooohhhhhhh understood now

[RyrineaHaruno]

ooooooooohhhhhhh understood now

His one flaw that makes him a tragic hero is his need for revenge

[Kori]

His one flaw that makes him a tragic hero is his need for revenge

i thought you said it was his lust for power. Hang on lemme see *looks back at the previous posts*...you never stated that one. you stated his tragic past (which wasn't one that all Tragic heroes go through), his noble birthright, and a bunch of things from the theory of the tragic hero, actually.

[RyrineaHaruno]

i thought you said it was his lust for power. Hang on lemme see *looks back at the previous posts*...you never stated that one. you stated his tragic past (which wasn't one that all Tragic heroes go through), his noble birthright, and a bunch of things from the theory of the tragic hero, actually.

I just put that in their as well to make up for not putting it ^^.

[Kori]

I just put that in their as well to make up for not putting it ^^.

oh. makes sense.

[Sora no Kitsune]

Sasuke fits this description more perfectly.

Born into nobility: The very powerful police force of the Uchiha.

Falls from that nobility in some way: His family dies. This one can be debated because he's still seen as the prodiy student ect. but i see that as since his family is dead, the nobel aspect of his life is gone.

Responsible for own fate: He see's himself as an avenger. He must kill his brother and he feels he must do it alone, thus his fate lies in his own hands.

Tragic flaw: He's is a dark, unsocial, power thirsty child who treats everything as the dirty he stands on.

Irreversible mistake: He leaves the village to gain power from Orochimaru. This, i believe, is irreversible because by doing this, things can no longer be the same. Every one will see him as the traitor Uchiha rather than the young protigy, he will no longer be able to live life with the benifts he had before he left, and his friends will no longer see him in the same light again. No matter how much peopleaccept him, things will never be as they were.

Meets a tragic death: This is the only thing i see arguable. I think he will die in the series, however i think it will be a dignifying death and not a tragic one. I believe this is gonna play out with Sasuke helping Naruto in the final battle against Madara after realizing the error of his way. In the end, he will help Naruto and friends defeat Madara, but ends up dieing due to a final attack from Madra, either by bad lucky or by jumping infront of it to protect his friends. Or atleast thats my theory.

In the end, Naruto isn't fit to die. He's the main character and unless theres some sort of loophole that brings Naruto back from the dead, i highly doubt he will die. And since this is a shounen manga and not a tragedy, it's not likely for the main character to die.

[TashaJ]

I think Naruto's death could be a possibility.
Though I think that if it did happen, then Naruto would have to go down as the ultimate hero, who saves the whole village and stops the war as he dies.
Then as he lay dying in SAKURA'S arms, confess his love to her.
I don't think it would work any other way, Then again that's just my opinion.

But, Sasuke definately fits the description as a tragic hero better than Naruto.
It doesn't seem possible for Sasuke to come back to the village anymore, so I do think they will kill him off, especially since he is soo power hungry or was to kill Itachi.

Edited by TashaJ, 19 May 2009 - 02:32 PM.

[jacm]

I think Naruto's death could be a possibility.
Though I think that if it did happen, then Naruto would have to go down as the ultimate hero, who saves the whole village and stops the war as he dies.
Then as he lay dying in SAKURA'S arms, confess his love to her.
I don't think it would work any other way, Then again that's just my opinion.

But, Sasuke definately fits the description as a tragic hero better than Naruto.
It doesn't seem possible for Sasuke to come back to the village anymore, so I do think they will kill him off, especially since he is soo power hungry or was to kill Itachi.

i agree

or probably, he might die while fighting sasuke

[Vicious]

i agree

or probably, he might die while fighting sasuke

I have my doubts on that, if he dies fighting Sasuke who'll kill Madara? Sasuke? Sasuke is already under Madara's influence.

[jacm]

I have my doubts on that, if he dies fighting Sasuke who'll kill Madara? Sasuke? Sasuke is already under Madara's influence.

maybe naruto already killed Madara before fighting Sasuke