20 replies to this topic

[thgt89]

    I wanted Narusaku to happen and thought it was the most natural and had the most development but could have been o.k. with it not happening if it was done right. I don't particularly like Naruhina but can see its merits with Hinata always loving him and Naruto being nice to her. It is not really all that hard to think given time together Naruto could eventually fall for her. The way it had to all be done in a movie and be so over the top with it was unnecessary but whatever. No relationship needs to happen and a person's love doesn't have to be returned. Also even great realtionships where both people really love each other don't always work out for whatever reason. Naruto and Sakura did not have to be in a romantic relationship. They had a strong bond and I do feel they both loved each other even if it did not turn out to be romantic.

    My biggest problem is that Sasusaku happened. While no relationship needs to happen some relationships most certainly should not happen given the course of a series and Sasusaku is one of them. He made her suffer so much throughout the series and she meant so little to him for so long and Sakura simply wasn't that important to him and they had no real chemistry. Also the ending made no sense since he left again and isn't even back by the time NH are married so how did they get together? Sasuke is doing what I always thought he would do which is wander the world. So why also pair him with Sakura. The answer is probably Kishi initially didn't want Sasusaku but  simply wanted Sasuke to have a kid when he decided to make the next series and because of Sasuksaku's popularity simply paired them up. 

    Now if Narusaku didn't end a much better ending would have been to simply have Sakura admit she cares equally for both of them and loves both of them like a family. She could still care for Sasuke and not discard the bond without making herself look pathetic wanting to romantically be with him. They could then truly be a happy team again without having romance hang over there heads. An added bonus would be if at the end of 699 she could have made the new arms instead of Tsunade and given one to both Sasuke and Naruto. That way a part of her would always be with both of them and then they could go their separate ways with Sasuke going on his journey but always care for each other in their hearts. This would have made them all look better and then NH could happen and Sakura could either remain single or end up with someone like Lee or Sai and it would be much better than what happened.

Edited by thgt89, 09 December 2014 - 10:48 PM.

[Nar123]

    I wanted Narusaku to happen and thought it was the most natural and had the most development but could have been o.k. with it not happening if it was done right. I don't particularly like Naruhina but can see its merits with Hinata always loving him and Naruto being nice to her. It is not really all that hard to think given time together Naruto could eventually fall for her. The way it had to all be done in a movie and be so over the top with it was unnecessary but whatever. No relationship needs to happen and a person's love doesn't have to be returned. Also even great realtionships where both people really love each other don't always work out for whatever reason. Naruto and Sakura did not have to be in a romantic relationship. They had a strong bond and I do feel they both loved each other even if it did not turn out to be romantic.
    My biggest problem is that Sasusaku happened. While no relationship needs to happen some relationships most certainly should not happen given the course of a series and Sasusaku is one of them. He made her suffer so much throughout the series and she meant so little to him for so long and Sakura simply wasn't that important to him and they had no real chemistry. Also the ending made no sense since he left again and isn't even back by the time NH are married so how did they get together? Sasuke is doing what I always thought he would do which is wander the world. So why also pair him with Sakura. The answer is probably Kishi initially didn't want Sasusaku but  simply wanted Sasuke to have a kid when he decided to make the next series and because of Sasuksaku's popularity simply paired them up. 
    Now if Narusaku didn't end a much better ending would have been to simply have Sakura admit she cares equally for both of them and loves both of them like a family. She could still care for Sasuke and not discard the bond without making herself look pathetic wanting to romantically be with him. They could then truly be a happy team again without having romance hang over there heads. An added bonus would be if at the end of 699 she could have made the new arms instead of Tsunade and given one to both Sasuke and Naruto. That way a part of her would always be with both of them and then they could go their separate ways with Sasuke going on his journey but always care for each other in their hearts. This would have made them all look better and then NH could happen and Sakura could either remain single or end up with someone like Lee or Sai and it would be much better than what happened.

Agreed
I would have no qualms with narusaku not happening if it was in a satisfying way that resolved everything and didn't destroyed their bonds.

[Ace of Circle]

I would only be okay without NaruSaku if it's because that's an unresolved issue.Both Naruto and Sakura couldn't end up with anyone else without it failing hard like it did.

[rocci]

I don't have any problem with this ending if naruto doesn't love sakura in the first place or kill NS before war arc.

[Aizen-Sama]

Naruto shouldn't have had any interest in Sakura and Sakura should not have shown signs of falling for Naruto. Hinata should've had more relevance with him showing reciprocation for her crush. In this way I could've shipped NH/SS. Also take out Sasuke's murder attempts on Sakura.
The romance in Naruto is such a mess. >.<

[harry4e]

I would have been OK with Naruto/Hinata heck if done well even Sakura/Sasuke if it was done well, if the relationship between Naruto and Sakura was dealt with properly, but instead we got what we got, it's something the NH fanboys don't seem to realise, our biggest ire is not that our pairings didn't happen but HOW the other two happened, and on top of that it's the complete and utter disrespect for the source material.

 

If Kishi wanted NH and SS to happen he should have built the bloody things in the manga, It was his manga as long as he did a good job of showing this we would have had to accept, butjust because it's his manga doesn't mean he can just kitten it up and tell us to accept it...once the work comes into public don't give us a freaking forehead tap and a lousy contraditing movie and expect us to bend over and smile. He ruined the very core of the manga to make the pairings happen, he destroyed the very reasons why we ever cared for any of them, what's the point of having these bonds being built for 15 years if every single love story happened before the manga happened?

 

If the pairing happened I would have grumbled a bit, but accepted it, I'd still have shipped NS, Kishi was never going to change my mind on that, but I didn't expect him to, I like the pairing because I like the pairing, just because it made the most sense in the manga was a completely different matter. If he convinced me that NH and SS were a good match, and actually worked I'd accept, instead we got what? we still don't know what Sakura see's in Sasuke, or why Sasuke suddenly loves her, when before his feelings showed he cared for Karin the most. We don't know why Naruto loves Hinata, they've hardly talked to each other, it's the same with SS.

 

I'm still old school, I don't believe two people can fall in love without actually knowing that person on some personal level, Lust yeah, fancy yeah, admiration yeah, But IN love no.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I would have been ok if NS got resolved right without being canon. It's the fact that Kishi and pretty much everyone knows that they went too deep. Instead of making a sad ending, they come up with the absolute excuse of all time. Not to mention, it still doesn't clear things in missing plot elements, but I won't get into that. The point is none of it made any sense. I guess our red flag was Kage Bunshin as a kid rather than chapter 1.

[Phantom_999]

But that's the problem, they didn't resolve it properly. They just threw the pairings in our faces and expect us to accept it. The fact that NS didn't happen is the least of our problems with this ending, they had to fire torpedoes right at the core of character development and themes of the story to make these pairings canon. Sakura is back to her single minded Sasuke crush, and Naruto out of the blue said that the one young woman he's been nurturing such selfless feelings of love for 15 years of story-line that was a silly desire to possess her as an extension of his rivalry to Sasuke. It took literally blowing the story to pieces and going back to square one to actually make these pairings canon, which is what many are so upset about.   

Edited by Phantom_999, 19 December 2014 - 02:03 PM.

[somilmish]

I would've been pretty happy even with naruhina if they didn't make naruto ooc

[Aizen-Sama]

Kikitten should've made NH/SS obvious from the start. Then we never would've shipped his red herring and this mess wouldn't be. Bastard did it on purpose for the pairing war publicity.

[max acorn]

the key to any pairing is time and development. if you are gonna put two people together, show us WHY they would be together. perfect example: levy and gajeel from fairy tail. it certainly didn't start out with them on the best of terms (he kinda beat her and her team up and nailed them to a tree) but over time, they got better. she forgave him for beating her up and he went out of his way to protect her when he really didn't have to. over time, they grew closer to the point where they are a couple in all but name alone. that's how you do a proper relationship.

 

if SS/NH was kishi's endgame then he is the kittentiest mangaka ever, in terms of romance. sakura has never really stated why she loved sasuke. she just went with the trends of her classmates in kitten-riding him. and sasuke showed nothing in terms of romantic feelings for her in anyway. hinata liked naruto, sure enough, but she NEVER DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT! she didn't talk with him, got to know him, worked with him, etc. and naruto showed no romantic interest in her what so ever. this is not how you do romance!!

 

look, like everyone else, i would've accepted the ending if it was done RIGHT! i've seen romance done in other shojo manga. it can be done. it's not impossible. but kishi kittened it up. he served us a kitten sandwich and expects us to eat it. sad to say, a lot of people are eating that kitten sandwich and smiling like that reindeer on "eight crazy nights". 

[Illnevergiveup3]

I would have hated Kishi even more if he didn't make them get together.

[TerrorKing]

I said years ago on this very website, that I would be fine with and NH /SS ending if it was written well. This ending was not written well, in fact I don't think it could have been written worse. 

 

You see, NS was sort of my measuring stick for how a romantic relationship should be built.I don't deny that NH is cute and that SS looks good together, but that doesn't really matter because when it comes to mutual development they just don't hold up.

 

I don't know whether Kishi intended for NS to be a red herring and I don't really care. What I care about is what was shown in the manga and all it showed me was NS. Kishi should have developed all the pairings equally. He should have shown Naruto starting to take an interest in Hinata after 437 and he should have shown (or at least hinted) that Sasuke was conflicted about the way he treated Sakura. If he had done that, the end pairings would look alot more believeable. However he didn't do that and that makes the red herring argument looks like nothing more than an excuse to cover up the fact that he is either a massive sellout or just a bad writer.

 

So yeah, I don't have a problem with NH and SS becoming canon. I have a problem with how poorly it was handled and how it completely kittens on other pairings/bonds like NS, SK and SNS.

 

There's a myriad of other problem with this ending, like how Naruto is a completely shallow a**hole and a neglectful father, how Sakura had been relegated to a housewife and is stuck at home while Sasuke, who by the way has now left the village (again), wanders around somewhere and still seems unhappy. 

 

And that's just the main characters. Meanwhile, Tsunade and Mei are both unhappy about not being with a man, Tenten runs an unsuccesful weapons shop, Shino is a teacher that no one listens to, Kiba is just lounging about, Ino seems unhappy, Temari seems unhappy and Bolt and Salad are both suffering from parental neglect. 

 

So yeah, pairings are only a small part of why I'm unhappy with the ending. 

Edited by TerrorKing, 10 February 2015 - 05:25 PM.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

I said years ago on this very website, that I would be fine with and NH /SS ending if it was written well. This ending was not written well, in fact I don't think it could have been written worse. 

 

You see, NS was sort of my measuring stick for how a romantic relationship should be built.I don't deny that NH is cute and that SS looks good together, but that doesn't really matter because when it comes to mutual development they just don't hold up.

 

I don't know whether Kishi intended for NS to be a red herring and I don't really care. What I care about is what was shown in the manga and all it showed me was NS. Kishi should have developed all the pairings equally. He should have shown Naruto starting to take an interest in Hinata after 437 and he should have shown (or at least hinted) that Sasuke was conflicted about the way he treated Sakura. If he had done that, the end pairings would look alot more believeable. However he didn't do that and that makes the red herring argument looks like nothing more than an excuse to cover up the fact that he is either a massive sellout or just a bad writer.

 

So yeah, I don't have a problem with NH and SS becoming canon. I have a problem with how poorly it was handled and how it completely kittens on other pairings/bonds like NS, SK and SNS.

 

There's a myriad of other problem with this ending, like how Naruto is a completely shallow a**hole and a neglectful father, how Sakura had been relegated to a housewife and is stuck at home while Sasuke, who by the way has now left the village (again), wanders around somewhere and still seems unhappy. 

 

And that's just the main characters. Meanwhile, Tsunade and Mei are both unhappy about not being with a man, Tenten runs an unsuccesful weapons shop, Shino is a teacher that no one listens to, Kiba is just lounging about, Ino seems unhappy, Temari seems unhappy and Bolt and Salad are both suffering from parental neglect. 

 

So yeah, pairings are only a small part of why I'm unhappy with the ending. 

You salty!11

They are all happy!11

NH and SS canon!!!1

/sarcasm

 

There is no way of NH or SS for me, to be ok with. This is story that shows how NS works and NH and SS not, but in the end NS magicaly has no trace at all and NH all cheese, SS doesn't even go beyond chapter 3 Sakura's character.

So NS was pairing that story was about.

It would be different story with different characters if there was development for NH/SS.

[TerrorKing]

You salty!11

They are all happy!11

NH and SS canon!!!1

/sarcasm

 

There is no way of NH or SS for me, to be ok with. This is story that shows how NS works and NH and SS not, but in the end NS magicaly has no trace at all and NH all cheese, SS doesn't even go beyond chapter 3 Sakura's character.

So NS was pairing that story was about.

It would be different story with different characters if there was development for NH/SS.

This is true. It would very much change not only the character but also the individual relationship dynamics between the characters. I don't know if it would be a dramatic change, but it would still be a change regardless. 

[rikakim94]

When kishi was asked in a interview about the romance in naruto before hinatas confession. KIshi mentioned how nh/ss and ns were just there for the sake to feel sympathetic for the characters for there unrequited love. Most importantly he mentioned something about how he never planned about any of the pairs to happen at first. Until the interviewer asked wither if one of them are going to get required kishi said yes. While the interviewer hoped hinata gets the chance to confess and kishi agreed that she gets her chance to confess to. After the confession happened, nothing came after wards hinatas love was still one sided  and naruto still sees hinata as nohing more than just a friend even after the "suicide confession" she made. Heck the first person naruto talks to is sakura and about tsunades well being. This to me is a strong strong proof that nh was never planned from the beginning or 8 years ago. 

 

I forgot to mention this is one of another proof that kishi never planned anything about his story.

Edited by rikakim94, 10 February 2015 - 07:52 PM.

[Tiller]

Naruto shouldn't have had any interest in Sakura and Sakura should not have shown signs of falling for Naruto. Hinata should've had more relevance with him showing reciprocation for her crush. In this way I could've shipped NH/SS. Also take out Sasuke's murder attempts on Sakura.
The romance in Naruto is such a mess. >.<

Yup, for this ending to make a lick of sense you'd need to rewrite the entire story, the motivations and personality  of most of the characters, and actually make Hinata tolerable.

[TerrorKing]

When kishi was asked in a interview about the romance in naruto before hinatas confession. KIshi mentioned how nh/ss and ns were just there for the sake to feel sympathetic for the characters for there unrequited love. Most importantly he mentioned something about how he never planned about any of the pairs to happen at first. Until the interviewer asked wither if one of them are going to get required kishi said yes. While the interviewer hoped hinata gets the chance to confess and kishi agreed that she gets her chance to confess to. After the confession happened, nothing came after wards hinatas love was still one sided  and naruto still sees hinata as nohing more than just a friend even after the "suicide confession" she made. Heck the first person naruto talks to is sakura and about tsunades well being. This to me is a strong strong proof that nh was never planned from the beginning or 8 years ago. 

 

I forgot to mention this is one of another proof that kishi never planned anything about his story.

That's very interesting. 

 

So basically it's like this: 

 

We're supposed to feel sorry for Hinata because she is in love with Naruto, but Naruto doesn't love her back.

 

We're supposed to feel sorry for Sakura because she is in love with Sasuke, but Sasuke doesn't love her back.

 

We're supposed to feel sorry for Naruto because he is in love with Sakura, but Sakura doesn't love him back.

 

To me this seems like Kishi is trying to argue that all the pairings are equal and that anyone of them can become canon and it would still make sense.

 

To me there are several problems with this.

 

1. Like you stated, this directly contradicts his recent interviews where he claims that NH was planned from the very beginning.

 

2. NH and SS were completely one sided while there were strong hints that Sakura was starting to reciprocate Naruto's feelings.

 

3. The ending completely disregarded Naruto's feelings by attributing them to a silly rivalry game.

 

4. You would think that Naruto's goals would supercede everybody else's, what with him being the main character and that therefore the story would accomodate those goals. 

 

But yeah, like you said this only further proves Kishi's incompetence. You can't just spend all your time developing one pairing and then act as if they all have an equal chance of happening. That's bad storytelling. Sure there is the red herring argument, but that still doesn't work because you still need to make all possibilities seem at least somewhat credible and that's just not the case. So even if NS was just there meant to mislead us, it doesn't seem credible at all because it was the only pairing that had mutual development.

 

Sasuke didn't open up to the possibility of loving Sakura until 699. That means that for 698 chapters, he had absolutely no romantic interest in her. Likewise The Last is all about how Naruto falls in love with Hinata. That means that for 699 chapters, he had absolutely no romantic interest in her.

 

Meanwhile we have NS. We know that Naruto is in love with Sakura. We know why he is love with her and we know that he is willing to do anything to make her happy. We also have part 2 where we have multiple instances of Sakura showing signs of being romantically interested in Naruto, like when he first gets back, one of the first things she asks is whether she has become more womanly. Then there's Yamato's unfinished sentence and Sakura's confession which at least hints that she is conflicted about her feelings. Then there are the parallels and the databooks.

 

I feel like I'm repeating myself, but no matter how I look at it, there is just no way that I can look at this and call it good storytelling.     

Edited by TerrorKing, 10 February 2015 - 11:17 PM.

[Nar123]

That's very interesting. 

 

So basically it's like this: 

 

We're supposed to feel sorry for Hinata because she is in love with Naruto, but Naruto doesn't love her back.

 

We're supposed to feel sorry for Sakura because she is in love with Sasuke, but Sasuke doesn't love her back.

 

We're supposed to feel sorry for Naruto because he is in love with Sakura, but Sakura doesn't love him back.

 

To me this seems like Kishi is trying to argue that all the pairings are equal and that anyone of them can become canon and it would still make sense.

 

To me there are several problems with this.

 

1. Like you stated, this directly contradicts his recent interviews where he claims that NH was planned from the very beginning.

 

2. NH and SS were completely one sided while there were strong hints that Sakura was starting to reciprocate Naruto's feelings.

 

3. The ending completely disregarded Naruto's feelings by attributing them to a silly rivalry game.

 

4. You would think that Naruto's goals would supercede everybody else's, what with him being the main character and that therefore the story would accomodate those goals. 

 

But yeah, like you said this only further proves Kishi's incompetence. You can't just spend all your time developing one pairing and then act as if they all have an equal chance of happening. That's bad storytelling. Sure there is the red herring argument, but that still doesn't work because you still need to make all possibilities seem at least somewhat credible and that's just not the case. So even if NS was just there meant to mislead us, it doesn't seem credible at all because it was the only pairing that had mutual development.

 

Sasuke didn't open up to the possibility of loving Sakura until 699. That means that for 698 chapters, he had absolutely no romantic interest in her. Likewise The Last is all about how Naruto falls in love with Hinata. That means that for 699 chapters, he had absolutely no romantic interest in her.

 

Meanwhile we have NS. We know that Naruto is in love with Sakura. We know why he is love with her and we know that he is willing to do anything to make her happy. We also have part 2 where we have multiple instances of Sakura showing signs of being romantically interested in Naruto, like when he first gets back, one of the first things she asks is whether she has become more womanly. Then there's Yamato's unfinished sentence and Sakura's confession which at least hints that she is conflicted about her feelings. Then there are the parallels and the databooks.

 

I feel like I'm repeating myself, but no matter how I look at it, there is just no way that I can look at this and call it good storytelling.     

 

you nailed this one

It really makes no sense doing that if kishi had decided the pairing from the beginning as he had said before

Edited by Nar123, 11 February 2015 - 11:26 AM.

[Darth Krypt]

Well, the title pretty much applies to any story anyway. Not just Naruto.