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Review of Sasuke as a Character [Kishis worst Characterwriting]


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#1 Riverkid

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 10:59 PM

[UPDATED] : 22.01.2017

[Sasuke Uchiha: Kishimotos worst Characterwriting related to the Story]

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To review the Character of Sasuke i will begin at the point where he starts to fall off as a 'good'-Character (however he still somehow improved in the eyes of many fans). We will come to that later.

A good Character within a story is summed up to: 
-25% Character-Design (likeable or not)
-25% Characterwriting (purpose of the Character - how Kishimoto is working with the Character)
-25% Character-Development (utilizing the 'experience' a Character is going through within the story)
-25% Character-Potential (used opportunites to develop the Character)

[Everything will be 'my' Opinion and my point-of-view how i rate a Character]

I will not focus on the Character-Design of Sasuke. The Character-design isn't just the appearance of the Character. It's also his personality, attitude and also includes his past which affects his personality. I will mainly focus on his Plot-usage and how Kishi includes him in his Story. So i will mainly focusing myself on the 'Characterwriting' and his 'Character-Development'. However i will still rate his Design and his used Potential at the end in my 'Conclusion'.

The point where he falls off is when Kishimoto changed his Role from a 'Rival' to a 'Villain'. You could argue that he was already a 'Villain' by joining Orochimaru, but he didn't made a move against Konoha or Naruto -> so he didn't play the antagonist there. The clear start of his 'Villain'-role begun by joining Akatsuki (after talking with Obito about Itachis truth). Since the 'Conversation about Itachis truth' was an important changing-point for the Character i would like to recall this Part, because it clearly shows why Sasuke is a bad-written Character.

Being a antagonist doesn't automatically turns you into a villain. Sasuke had good convictions to be a avenger, but this was dropped with the attemp to hunt Killer-Bee and also the attempt to kill the kages for his own ideologie of peace - that has less to do with his 'revenge' and just puts him in the same category as Madara and Tobi (both tried to force their own idea of peace, and they kill other people to acchieve that goal). Having good convictions doesn't make your 'bad'-actions good, and also doesn't make you a exception for being a accomplice of the main-villain


So here we go:


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So here we have a stranger, and on top of that a masked guy from Akatsuki who wants to tell something important to Sasuke. He is pretty suspicious but we will give him a chance and see what he is trying to say

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The jutsu was activated to kill 'Tobi' but failed, and 'Tobi' himself tells him that Itachi tried to protect Sasuke from him. Lets just keep that in mind for later!

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So first: the stranger, the masked guy claims to be 'Madara' who should be already dead years ago, but thats of course not suspicious and Sasuke will not ask for some proofs -> maybe asking something like "Why is your mask needed  if you revealed your true identy already?". But thats just the first piece of following parts where Sasuke just ignores the suspicous things. Dont worry, we will go through all of them.

Second: he also said that he 'helped' Itachi during that 'night' and killed off his entire Clan. Again Sasuke is not questioning this 'BIG' Information he just got. 'Why did he helped him?' 'If he is an Uchiha too, then why did he kill his own Clan?' because thats clearly not important for Sasuke

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Here we go again: 'Itachi tried to protect Sasuke from 'Tobi' ' keep that in mind!

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Sasuke refused to listen to Itachi, and straight up attacked him with the attempt to kill him, because Itachi killed his Clan. However he will listen to the stranger who is already suspicious and also already claimed that he helped itachi by killing his own clan. So this was already a  big '?' for me when i read this first.

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'Tobi' now tells Sasuke everything about his past, and also the part whe he took the eyes from his Brother to achieve the 'eternal mangekyou sharingan'. You know whats funny about this? 'This' little Information Sasuke is really curious about, but the other BIG Informations tobi already have told were just completly ignored by him. Because THIS is really important... The conversion should be about Itachis truth but Sasuke is curious about his Eyepower. And even here Sasuke is not asking for some evidence "Show me your EMS if u claim to posses it" because Sasuke was already trusting this guy and doesn't need any kind of evidence for his story.
 

At this point i started to 'cringe' about this whole conversation. Kishimoto really tried to give Sasuke the 'i will not fall for that lie'-role so he won't be displayed as a naiv manipulative character. But forcing him to ignore the most suspicious things, and even force him to ask the wrong and unneeded questions (because kishimoto tried to create a realistic conversation where 'tobi' would sell his story in a good way so he can convince Sasuke)  just makes this Character 'stupid'. Not even Kiba would fall for that. Tobi already revealed that he was part of the massacre and Sasuke is stil listenting to him and swallows everything... but ye whatever, we are not done yet.


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Now 'Tobi' (aka fake Madara) tells him that he abandoned the Village (and also his own clan). After that he returned to the Village with the 9-tails to get his own revenge but lost against the 1st Hokage. Then he played the 'dead'-one and faded away from the history.

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Now he claims that the attack of the 9-tails was just a 'natural disaster'. again... How does he know that? was he there to watch the whole event? wouldn't it be super suspicious if he was there by 'chance' at the time the 9-tails attacked? I mean he already revealed his 'hate' towards his own Clan and the Village, so he would have a big motive to attack the village 'again' with the 9-tails after the death of the 1st Hokage. Is Sasuke questioning all of these things? of course not. 

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Really.. such a 'Natural Disaster' the 9-tails-attack was which leads the Elders from Konoha to assign Itachi the task to kill his own clan.. and 'Tobi' was just there - coincidentally - so he can be part of that task too for his own revenge against his own clan.

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Congratulation. Finally Kishimoto gave Sasuke a 'brain'. Sadly this little Hope got destroyed by 'tobi' with: "i'm afraid thats a lie, sasuke" and we are now back again by believing him everything. Clever writing: just say "im sorry, thats a lie" and he believes you. thats also how the whole conversation went (i didn't show the whole conversation.. buts you can imagine how the other stuff went -> Sasuke :"thats all a lie" and tobi responses to that: "no, its true.. believe it".

And what happened next? Sasuke cried and made his decision "i will destroy Konoha"

So 'Tobi' made sure that Sasuke belives his 'story' and swallows everything, also the part that Itachi really did everything FOR him. Itachi created a 'master-plan' just for Sasuke.. but we ignore the last part of his master-plan. The part where he tried to protect Sasuke from Madara is just being ignored. 
"Thanks 'Madara' for telling me itachis truth, you really opened my eyes.. i really believe now that itachi did everything to protect me.. but the last part where he tried to kill u, that wasn't nice of him.. he shouldn't have done that, you are acutally such a nice guy"

I mean Itachi was already afraid that Sasuke will be manipulated by Orochimaru and he was damn right with his assumption, but now his assumption that 'Madara' might manipulate Sasuke for his own goal is... whatever.

Also the part where he claimed that he helped itachi killing his own clan is just being ignored. I mean he killed Itachi because Itachi killed his own Clan, but he will not kill 'Tobi' for the same reason.. no INSTEAD he helps him with his Moon-Plan and tried to capture Killer-Bee which which he won't even benefit from and distracted himself from his own goals. They don't even share the same goal, so why ?
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Even Itachi noticed it, "kill him?" ye you sure will kill him

After all that i was just "WOW". I don't know what to think about this Caracter anymore. The Story behind Itachi was interesting but the way how Kishimoto handled 'this' Conversation was cringe worthy.

Finally done with this Part!


Lets go back to Season 1 of Naruto where Sasuke was acutally a good Character

Kishimoto created Team-7 as a feudion Trio (used in many other shows) 
One Character is driven by logic and instinct (Naruto)
One Character is driven by emotions and reasons (Sasuke
One Character is balancing the other 2 out (Sakura)

The benefit of a feudion-Trio is that you don't have the need of a complex Character because they balance each other out (Naruto is stubborn and never uses his brain, but Sakura will be the brain in the team) . Creating a complex Character is always one of the most difficult task writing within a Story since it create many rooms for mistakes (but its also rewarded the most if its done right). A complex personality is always needed for a stand-alone Character within a complex Story. We will come to that topic later.

Sasuke was driven by his emotions of hate towards Itachi, while Naruto was trying to keep him in place with team-7 because by logic of being a teammate/friend.

Sasuke not only played a great 'Rival' but also a great 'Counterpart' to Naruto with an interesting build-up. The Characterdesign of Sasuke was really great, and also well displayed in Season 1. Kishimoto utilized his past perfectly for the Character to be a important drive within the story (without being a mainly focus to the story)

On the one side we have Sasuke: a skilled and talented Ninja from a strong Clan. 

On the other side we have Naruto: the dead-last from Zero.

Both Character choosed a different way related to their past. Naruto took the 'hard-work'-way with effort and a lot of practice, while  Sasuke took the 'power-seek'-way with more eyepower, curse-seals, drugs etc.
And Sasuke played his role really well, better than Naruto did with his role (Lee is the best example of 'hard-work') 

Everyone would assume that the story will end with Hard-Work > Power-Seek. I was really sure of myself after Season 1 that Naruto will beat Sasuke because he will suffer horrible side-effects from his addiction for more Power. 

Naruto and Sasuke are pretty much a 'Light / Dark - Characterconstellation - concept' where the Light will overcome the Dark.

So basically Kishimoto had 2 options for a good Storybuild-up regarding
Naruto and Sasuke. Either he will let them fight eachother at the end where Naruto wins because of the Hard-Work > Power-Seek concept OR he will re-unite team 7 after Sasuke killed orochimaru (or even after killing Itachi) and let him return to konoha..

however Kishimoto took the 3rd Option: (
Shippuden-Style).

Kishimoto made many mistakes with
Shippuden and Sasuke was also a big part of it. 

Shippuden-stlye is basically just the focus on the 'Naruto vs Sasuke'-fight towards the end. The fight in season 1 was already a huge success for the manga, and a overwhelmed Kishimoto decided to create another Naruoto vs Sasuke fight in Shippuden, but this time with a overstreched tension build-up. Kishimot basically put all his focus on Naruto and Sasuke to hype-up the fight between them while he is pretty lazy with the other stuff around them (the other characters / story-plot outside of Naruto and Sasuke etc.).

Sasuke was now a stand-alone Character becaue Kishimoto decided to give him almost the same amount of screentime as Naruto, but this time he isn't within a Trio.. so Kishimoto needs to develop Sasuke into an complex Character to let him shine through out the complex Story. But i guess Kishi was also too lazy for that? or maybe he did in on purpose ? who knows.

Because Kishi kept
Sasuke as a Character only driven by emotions and reasons, he lacks the logic and mature decision-making for his following actions, because Sasuke did many things which were pretty much complete non-sense.

Before some of you start to argue about that Sasuke isn't only driven by emotions, let me explain it. I don't talk about situational emotions, because Sasuke doesn't show them much. He rarely shows affection, fear, kidness, hapiness etc. and always have a logical-clear mindest in certain situations (in battles for examples). But thats not what i mean. I talk about the long-term emotions (Hate, love, revenge, disappointment etc,) which a mangaka can use to drive his Character. The 2nd Hokage also mentioned in his conversation with Sasuke that the 'uchihas' are known for their emotionall-drive (thats why obitos hate over a crush caused a whole war) - but this 'reason' was only created to justify some of the exeggerated unlogic convictions. At crucial points where Sasuke is about to develop, his matue decission-making and his logic gets suppressed by kishimoto to let him be driven by his emotions only

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lets count them:

 

1. - after killing Orochimaru, it would be the logical and smart move to return to Konoha. Naruto and the others wanted him back, so he had the option to return.. also as being the killer of the 3rd-Hokage-murderer he would be a little Hero for Konoha. Konoha would support him re-builing his clan if the time arrives for that, and Naruto (+ the other sinhobis) would support him hunting down Akatsuki -> which also means hunting down Itachi. so he would only benefit from this move.. but kishi doesn't want that to happen. Letting him return would mean that team-7 gets re-united, but it destroys the 'NaruSasu-Fight' build-up. So instead Sasuke gets his own Team 'Team Hebi' to create a parralel to Narutos-Team. "Team-7 vs Team-Hebi" -> thats how Kishi tries to hype-up his glorious upcoming fight more and more.

You could also argue that Sasukes new Team 'Hebi' is a new source for him where his Characterdesing can be balanced out for the story, but thats not the case. They are only a source where Sasuke can show his soft-side and that he 'can' care about others. Besides that they have litteraly 0 influence on him and his following actions (they just follow him on his way) -> Team-7 had much more influence on him back in Season 1.


2. - the conversation between him and tobi about itachis-truth was already mentioned above. It shows how Kishimoto is 'developing' his Character by only shifting his emotions for a different ambition to create a new drive in the Story, but he never really grow up from his one-dimensional Characterdesign (which was okey in Season 1, but not as a stand-alone Character in Shippuden). It also shows how Kishi 'create' the 'reasons' for Sasukes to justify his upcoming actions -> he creates them! (we will come to that later)

3. -
Sasukes first crime. Joining Akatsuki was already completly nonsense, since they don't aim for the same goal. However they shared a same mission of 'attacking konoha', because Akatsuki still needed the 9-tails, but i don't understand why Sasuke would distract himself with Killer-Bee instead of focusing on the 'same' mission attacking konoha. After capturing Killer-Bee (which turns out to be just a shadow-clone) he immediately left Akatsuki and focused on his own goal destroying Konoha again... so joining Akatsuki was basically just  a waste of time and he got nothing out of it because the benefit of capturing the 8-tails has nothing to do with his goal.. really clever decision. and because of that 'clever decision' he was now being targeted by all the villages for attacking killer-bee. Kishimoto must be really proud of himself, forcing Sasuke to do something completly unnecessary just to start his villain-role. "Dont worry guys, it will be worth it.. it will increase the tension for the last NaruSaSu-fight" - Kishimoto

 

You know how Kishi created this 'clever decision' ?

  • Step 1: give Sasuke a reason to join Akatsuki [Tobi: you will get more power from me in return for your help me]​
  • Step 2: let Sasuke be a villain [Unauthorized entry to a Village + attacking Killer Bee]
  • Step 3revert the reason and let him leave Akatsuki [Sasuke: I dont need the promised Power from you]

Its basically Tobi saying: "Yo sasuke, throw that stone on the head of this guy (you don't even know him) but the cops will come for you" (the kage are coming - because of YOU)

and Sasuke: "no problem, i mean i will also benefit from that, right ? -> *attack the guy* -> "you know what? actually i don't want that anymore.. i have other stuff to do, bye" 
-> *cops are still coming*

 

Missed Opportunity here: Tobi: "you need to attack killer bee (because he is a easier target than naruto) to create the needed drama for a Kage-summit. This will be the time where 'Danzo' will come out of his safety-place-Konoha to take part of the summit -> where you can kill him with the lack of his own safety"

 

Would be pretty smart and clever right? and you don't have to turn Sasuke into a stupid manipulativ Character for that.

 

4. -  Sasuke vs Danzo. This fight was actually reasonable for Sasuke, because Danzo was the one who assigned Itachi with the task to kill the Uchihas. However this is a good example of how Kishimoto sacrifies other Characters just to feed up Sasuke and Naruto. Danzo was foreshadowed by Jiraya and many were waiting for him to appear (danzo was hyped up). Then Danzo finally appears and dies immediately in the first event against Sasuke. thats how u waste good/interesting charcter-potential.

So you can't really count that as a stupid decision because Sasuke had good reasons to kill Danzo (despite he should kill Tobi for the same reason, and not HELP him)

 

5. - Sasuke then decided to be the next hokage. "wow look guys, now we have Naruto AND Sasuke attending for the Hokage-title.. are u already hyped up for the NaruSasu fight?" - Kishimoto. 
There is litteralry nothing to talk about this move.. it just summs up Sasukes Character-development = utter nonsense. Again, Kishi just created out of nowhere a reason for Sasuke to 'act' like that. [Also to create a Team-7 re-united - Arc for the Fans before we can go back again to our NaruSasu-Build-up]

6. - After Sasuke basically absued the Shinobi-Alliance to get rid of the 'Main-villains' (Kaguya, Obito, Madara) he then decided to kill the 5 Kages so he can create his own kind of 'Peace'. Danzos way of leading was to kill the people who would harm the peace (the Uchiha-Clan). Now Sasuke is basically following his footsteps and he wants to kill the Kage to create his own peace ? This Character really surprise me all the time... But thats only BECAUSE WE CAN NOW HAVE THE FIGHT BETWEEN NARUTO VS SASUKE!!! HYPE!!!.. yee.. wow.. honestly? thats so lame. thats such a big of a joke. The fight was great, i do enjoyed it (i still perfered the fight from season 1) but how kishi was building up to that... such a  terrible work! and he sacrifiied his own story, so much potential and so many characters for such a terrible build-up... just for one single fight. that wasn't worth it at all.. not in the slightest.

- also the whole "Reincarnation"-Stuff was only created by Kishimoto to give the NaruSasu-Fight a profound Story meaning. It wouldn't be good if Kishi had used all his Focus on the fight because of Naruto who

couldn't get over his obsession towards him.. so he created something 'more important' to not make it silly. The

whole War-Arc could have been done without the "Reincarnation"-concept just with Madara as the last-villain. 

 

 7. - What was the outcome of the Fight ? Sasuke now turned into a little version of Naruto... using logic but suppressing his emotions. This was already hurting Naruto as a Character (Be nice all the time, even towards your enemy.. talk to him and give him a chance and never forget.. ... don't kill your enemies!! even if he killed your parents) - fairytail-logic what kishi created here. Naruto is the first Hokage without killing someone, what a great reputation which shippuden-fans can be really proud of. (But he killed atleast hundred of White Zetsus!!!)

What can Sasuke even regret about his Actions ?

 

- only nearly kiled Naruto

- only nearly killed Sakura
- he killed Orochimaru (he was revived)
- he killed Danzo (no one cares appearently ? - everyone wanted him dead anyways)
- he killed Itachi (Itachi was dying anyways from his sick-pain, and he manipulate Sasuke to kill him)
- he attacked Killer-bee (but just captured a shadow-clone)

so there is nothing to feel 'guilty' at the end, because Kishimoto refused to give Sasuke 'real' consequences for his actions. (maybe let Neji die at the Sasuke-rescue-Arc from Part 1) / (maybe let Kakashi die when he fought against Sasuke) / (maybe let Naruto die at the end) etc.
He just can be lucky that everything went well at the end. So how can he start to 'regret' his actions if he didn't really lose anything, or didn't cause a loss for someone else? You regret the most after a loss, and you change from your own 'hate' the most if the regrets are heavier than your hateful drive. But ye, Sasuke is just a fictional Character so he changed successfully into a good person by lettimg him do whatever he wants without letting him taking any responsibilities.

Done with the counting!!
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thats why Kishimoto didn't develop Sasuke to a complex Character, so he can abuse his lack of logic and immature decision-making to build-up the last Fight. All he had to do was to 'create' some kind of stupid-easy reasons for Sasuke to let him act the way Kishimoto wants him to act. Not only abused by the Villains (Itachi, Orochimaru, Tobi) but also abused by his own creater Kishimoto. Its kinda the same with Naruto. Kishimoto created the unhealthy obsession towards Sasuke so Naruto will never give up on him -> to keep the NaruSasu-Fight alive. But he didn't change Naruto as much as with Sasuke. Sasuke was the Character Kishimoto could use to set up the main-drive of the Story, thats why he played alot with this 'Character development' to be the main-tool for his build-up.

 

It wasn't a mistake to turn Sasuke into a Villain for a more 'interesting' Build-up. If he wants Sasuke to be a criminal then he can do that, but 'how' he wrote Sasuke into that was just devastating

Quote from above: " Creating a complex Character is always one of the most difficult task writing within a Story since it create many rooms for mistakes (but its also rewarded the most if its done right) " - Kishimoto really hit many mistakes because he gave Sasuke the most room of 'development' from all the Characters -> but in this case it was only more room for mistakes

There are plenty other Characters with terrible writing (Obito, Kaguya, Tsunade), but they don't carry the same weight as Sasuke. He did more damage to the story than other Characters - thats why he is the worst of them because he was the major reason why this storytellin/build-up damaged the whole plot



[Conclusion]

[Character-Design]

- He is a 'badass'-Character with his overall appearence. He is the stereotype calm/cold/loner-fighter which never stops to amaze the audience. His look pretty much fits him, and his large Jutsu-arsenal is just screaming 'raw-power'. His fast and sharp fightingstyle is also something to be considered. His past which mainly affects his personality gives the needed touch and connection to the audience (to feel with the character). Overall i think his Design is well done by Kishimoto and really suits in the Naruto-genre [most fans are rating Characer-design > everything else]. His Character-design got hurt the most with the limitation towards his emotions and reasons, but it just results to damaging his Characterwriting instead of his Design

[Characterwriting]

 

- Sasuke is a plotdrive-Character and 60% of the events are resolving around his actions. ('He' was one of the reasons for Orochimarus Attack on Konoha / the timeskip started after he has abandon the village / the kage-summit was planned after 'he' did his first crime  / the show ends with the end of his hate etc...). He was a good plotdrive-Character in Part 1 because it didn't feel forced, the focus on him was balanced and not over the top to give room for other Characters to develop and room for the other Storyevents. The Build-up in Part 1 wasn't mainly around him. Kishimoto took off the 'balance' in Shippuden and gave Sasuke more and more room to play with. He creates stupid/unneded reasons  to drive the Character for his own build-up to create more and more hype for the fight. It feels forced and just sacrifies his own Story more and more for a single Character/fight. His poor writing in Shippuden is noticebale and was the main reason why he destroyed this character.

 

[Characterdevelopment]

 

- his growing relationship to his own team while his drive to seek more power was also growing  is just really well developed by Kishimoto. Sadly he crushed  his development in Shippuden and just toyed around with this 'hate' to create forced upcoming events (and you can't count that as development) - before he went 180° with the Character at the end and turned him into a calm/loner-version of Naruto. 


[Characterpotential]

 

- there isn't much to talk about the used Potential. The only potential which mattered the most for a Battle-Build-up was to give him more and more Power - and Kishimoto is the Santa-claus of free-power-ups in Shippuden


(25 % Characterdesign)
[6/10) - Part 1     /     [8/10] - Shippuden

(25 % Characterwriting)
[7/10] - Part 1     /     [2/10] - Shippuden

(25 % Character-development)
[6/10] - Part 1    /      [3/10] - Shippuden

(25 % Characterpotential-used)
[5/10] - Part 1    /      [7/10] - Shippuden




Thx for reading


[I might still update this 'review' in the future]

 


Edited by Riverkid, 22 January 2017 - 07:23 AM.


#2 Yyubie

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 06:05 AM

Bottom line is this guy needs to die. This piece of kitten gets rewarded with everything, cool looks (like 4 times redesign costume and hairstyle) , depth story and background explanations, MC only love interest, all the power up with every detailed explanations and story for it, anti punishment and freedom protections from author, immune to death (even after attacking 5 kage, attacking kumo and attempt murder on Bee, Sakura and Naruto, joining terrorist group, attempt to destroy konoha, killed Danzo) , getting his foot and ass licked by the MC (and now MC soon start to lick his foot and ass too).

 

I mean i don't know why .... this piece of kitten gets extremely overwhelming love by author ..... i don't care what his fan boys gonna say but i will say this passionately ....

 

This Piece of kitten Needs/Deserve to Die


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An out of control man needs a strong woman to control him.
And even a violent woman will become soft and tender to the man she love.


#3 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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    Dislikes Sasuke SasuSaku NaruHina and the Louisville Cardnials.

Posted 12 January 2017 - 06:23 AM

Everytime I see that son of a b**** I ask him....

 

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#4 Wubbzy

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 02:58 AM

This is so accurate with Sasuke's characters. I liked Part One Sasuke, but after that moment in the manga you showed, I just couldn't take him seriously anymore/ didn't care what happened to him because it got to the point of being absolutely absurd. 

 

I'm curious, are you going to do more character reviews for characters like Sakura and Naruto? It would be cool if you did! 


NaruSaku <3

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#5 Riverkid

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 06:08 AM

This is so accurate with Sasuke's characters. I liked Part One Sasuke, but after that moment in the manga you showed, I just couldn't take him seriously anymore/ didn't care what happened to him because it got to the point of being absolutely absurd. 

 

I'm curious, are you going to do more character reviews for characters like Sakura and Naruto? It would be cool if you did! 

The 'Naruto vs Sasuke' fight at the end of season 1 was a big success for the Manga. The popularity-votings for Sasuke went super high with this manga-volume, and he jumped from seed 4/5 to the 1st seed as the most-popular character in this Naruto-volume. I believe that Kishimoto was overwhelmed by that success and decided to end the next season also with 'Naruto vs Sasuke'. 

The Decision to create a second fight between Sasuke and Naruto wouldn't be bad if he didn't prioritized it over his own Story. He pretty much overstreched the build-up to that fight and decided to let it be the last fight of the show.

There were no reasons for him not to return to Konoha after killing Orochimaru. He just left the village to train under Orochimaru, so i don't know of any possible reasons why he shouldn't go back to konoha as a 'hero' for killing the 3rd-hokage-murder. Konoha would even support him to kill Itachi because they were basically at war vs Akatsuki. But a move like that would destroy the 'nartuo vs sasuke' part if kishimoto lets team-7 re-united again so soon.  Instead Kishimoto gave him is own team to create a parallel to the Team of naruto. 'Team hebi vs Team 7' -> thats how Kishimoto made the 'exciting' build-up for the 'naruto vs sasuke' fight.. by keeping sasuke away from village and even turning him to a villain so we can be more excitied about the glorious upcoming fight.

again, this wouldn't be bad if he didn't prioritized it over his own story. He kept his focus so hard on Sasuke and Naruto that he simply ignored the other characters and even his content of his own story. He went pretty lazy with the other stuffs.

Remember how the Jinchurikis got catched by Akatsuki ? Jinchuriki nr 2-7 were in the middle of nowhere and also just by themself.. litteraly begging akatsuki to catch them. Why is a Jinchuriki alone when Akatsuki is looking for them? why isn't a village trying to protect them? why don't they team-up so they could learn from eachother and protect eachother against akatsuki ?.. (we saw how much naruto learned from killer bee about jinchuurikis). Thats a example of  how Kishimoto went super-lazy with his content "oh man.. that would be so much work.. i guess i will just let them be catched by akatsuki in a easy way so i can focus again on naruto and sasuke" and force Naruto to keep chasing sasuke while he miss the oportunity to meet/help the other jinchurikis against Akatsuki. i was really angry about that because he sacrified really good character-potential and plot-potential just for the sake of Naruto and Sasuke. Thats how he handled  with almost every stuff around Naruto and Sasuke. 

Thats why everything was falling off with shippuden.


i don't know if i do a review for naruto or sakura.. i could do that, but its quite alot of work for me to do .. i will think about it





 


Edited by Riverkid, 13 January 2017 - 06:10 AM.


#6 catsi563

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 10:38 AM

Karin was never an obssessed stalker as other threads have gone into great length and exacting detail about. She was THE only girlt o ever basically tell sasuke where he could stick his ego, on more then one occassion and unlike a certian konoha shinobi she did not ever become a useless waste of oxygen in his presense. She was very much in lvoe with him and was shown several times to be able to hold her own with him, as well as be the ONLY person he ever respected of the female gender.


Edited by catsi563, 13 January 2017 - 10:38 AM.

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#7 Riverkid

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 04:51 PM

 

How dare you insult my precious Sasuke  :mad: this means war!! Riverboy!!
 

Haha. Thanks for taking your time to make a big reply, it was honestly a nice read and a really well written summary of Sasuke.

I'm well aware of the upsides of Sasuke you mentioned since i re-read the manga couple months ago and analized deeper while reading volume after volume. 

Kishimoto created Team-7 as a feudion Trio (used in many other shows) 
One Character is driven by Logic and Instinct (Naruto)
One Character is driven by emotions and reasons (Sasuke) 
One Character is balancing the other 2 out (Sakura)

The benefit of a feudion-Trio is that you don't have the need of a complex Character because they already balance each other out. Creating a complex Character is always one of the most difficult task writing withing a Story since it create many rooms for mistakes (but its also rewarded the most if its done right). 

Sasuke is the one following his emotion of hate towards Itachi (the reason of needing more power to handle itachi), while Naruto tries to keep Sasuke in place so he don't get swallowed by the hate (the logic of being a teammate and a friend). The fact that Sasuke cared sometimes for his teammates (for example when he protected naruto from the attack of haku) was only because Naruto and Sakura had a impact on Sasuke (blancing each other out) -> thats why he was a good character in Season-1.

You have a lot room for the 3rd member to push the teamdynamic in a certain direction. having Sakura there who favors Sasuke over Naruto to create a bad teamdynamic was Kishimotos intention -> because he was already planing breaking them apart at the end of Season 1.

If u compare it to 'Rin' (Team Minato) then you notice that she clearly balanced the team out to create a harmonic teamdynamic. despite having a crush on Kakashi she still took care of Obito (even more than for kakashi) and always handled the rivalry between them. Sakura prioritized her crush over a harmonic teamdynamic - but that was Kishimotos intention.

Its really important to discuss this stuff for the following part where Kishimoto changed the Character-constellation.

Kishimoto made Sasuke to a stand-alone Character with a lot of Screentime during Shippuden. Without having Naruto and Sakura there to balance him out it was needed to improve his Character into an complex Character. But he didn't. Sasuke stood as the Character who was driven only by his own emotions and reasons  for the whole show. You can't really call it "development" if u just changes his emotions to create a different ambition with a new reason. 

- it would be the logical-right way to return back to konoha after killing Orochimaru. Konoha (aka Naruto) wanted him back, so there were the option for him to return back to konoha, i mean thats why they chased him for. As the last Uchiha he had a reputation within Konoha so they would support him to re-build his own clan (and that was one of his goals), while Naruto and the other shinobis would support him to hunt akatsuki down -> to hunt Itachi. With his decision against this option he just made the way to acchieve his own goals harder.

- It was completly nonsense for him to support akatsuki. he changed his ambition to destroy konoha, so why would he 'busy' himself with killer-bee ? why not instead hunting down Naruto who was also a jinchuriki. i mean you already mentioned that he wanted to destroy everything related to konoha. Since when was Sasuke the guy who would let him be distracted from his own goals by unneeded other things with 0 benefits for him ?

- He killed Danzo because of the way how Danzo was leading Konoha in the background. Danzos leading-style was to kill the ones who would harm the peace (the uchiha) - no matter how much hate he would distract to him. Later Sasuke is following Danzos footstep by trying to kill the Kages to create his own peace ???????????????

You see there is 0 Logic behind most of his actions, because kishimoto didn't develop Sasuke to a complex character -> and that was really needed, because there were no one else who balanced him out. He could fix that with 'Team Hebi' but his new team didn't have the same influence on him as 'Team 7' did back in the days. 

Its the same with Naruto who only follows his logic and not using once his emotions. The way how he surpressed his own emotions for the sake of the 'logic' was pretty annoying because thats why his talking-no-jutsus always worked. 

- i dont kill nagato because the logic of the story wants me to create peace without killing one -> talking no jutsu
- i dont kill obito because the logic of the story wants me to create peace without killing one -> talking no jutsu

How can someone not have the intention to kill someone if the guy infront of u was the reason for your abysmall childhood and the death of your parents ? that was hurting Naruto as a Character

With the introduction of Sai i was really hoping that he would have enough influence on Naruto so that he would get rid of his obession towards sasuke -> sadly didnt happened

The Fact that i find Naruto less annoying and bad-written than Sasuke is because he didn't changed Naruto much through out the story (u got used to him).. while he was keep chaning Sasuke for a different purpose without any logic and sense and that was horrible (for me Sasuke was more like a clown at the end - while naruto was kishis little puppet to display the fairytale-logic in his story)

The last point:

Kishimotos last move to 'develop' Sasuke  was to change him complety. he becomes like naruto.. supress own emotions and just follows the logic of the show. After chapter 698 he becomes a second version of Naruto.. just in a calm way and as a loner-shinobi.








 



#8 BestSasuHinaSupporter

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 04:55 PM

oh woops I accidentally deleted my post was trying to edit it let me remake it until one of the Anbus comes here to restore the deleted one

 

How dare you insult my precious Sasuke   :mad: this means war!! Riverboy!!

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Honestly, I feel like Sasuke isn't appreciated enough as a character. A good portion of the fanbase, as well as non-Naruto fans, view him as the edgy emo angsty rival to Naruto. He's often seen as a major kitten and a character most people just don't understand whatsoever. However, Sasuke goes through probably the most character development in the entire series, even more so than Naruto himself.

 
Because Naruto is an action shonen manga, a lot of the details about the characters are either overshadowed by the fighting or quickly glossed over because there's not enough time to express them (save for the Talk no Jutsu everyone is well aware of). There's always a need to keep followers satisfied by exciting techniques and scenes. Though this isn't necessarily bad, it does cut away from the less actiony/deeper content which takes away from their personalities and growth. Beware the incoming wall of text.

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Sasuke starts out the story as someone whose literally lost everything he ever loved and knew, taken away by the person he trusted and respected more than anyone else for a reason he can't understand. This all happened when he was 7 years old. To those of you who read Berserk, this is comparable to The Eclipse. However, Sasuke at this time isn't a hardened man familiar with loss, betrayal, and death. He's a child, and this trauma forces him to grow up immediately. Thus it becomes understandable why he's so hellbent on being an avenger. Not only that, but Itachi was the one who Sasuke loved and cared for the most, and also was the perpetrator to his greatest loss. When you're betrayed on this level, it leaves such a deep impression that it's nearly impossible to recover from. Sasuke won't let himself get close to anyone else, or let them close to him, because he already can't bring himself to open up. Make a note of this; we're coming back to it later.

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Now, we don't know for certain how he lived until the start of the manga. With all his family and friends dead, it's possible he lived alone like Naruto did. Itachi visited the 3rd Hokage after the event, asking for him to protect Sasuke. It's highly probably the Hiruzen at the time, who felt guilty about his negligence in Danzo's role in the massacre, had arrangements for Sasuke's living. However, he was still mostly alone during this time.

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Returning to the academy, Sasuke's the center of rumors and whispers of the other students. He's an outcast now; no clan, and his older brother is a Missing Nin. He has no friends to rely on or comfort him. At this time, Sasuke already has knowledge of Naruto's condition. He knows that Naruto's also alone, and that he can't and won't judge him like the others. It's unknown if Sasuke realized Naruto is glad Sasuke is alone, too. However, they're already "rivals" and Sasuke's already been closed up. There's no possibility for any sort of open friendship at this time, even though there's an implicit unspoken bond.

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Fast forward now to the days of Team 7. Kakashi has become a mentor to Sasuke; a substitute guardian. Likewise he has the affection from Sakura and the attention from Naruto. Though he brushes them off as annoyances, he does begin to care about them, proven during the Land of Waves arc and the Chuunin Exams when he saves Naruto multiple times and attempts to rescue Sakura. He's still growing up; even though he's sworn to himself that he'll live solely for revenge, these people are now a part of his life. It's impossible not to care about them. Slowly but surely, he's coming to accept this current life of his.

 
At this point in the story, there's no doubt that Sasuke is one of the strongest genin in the village. He's most likely the strongest out of his graduating class, and so far is a year behind the likes of Neji and Rock Lee in terms of experience and training. However, he's nowhere near the strength of Itachi at his age. If Sasuke has one big glaring weakness at this point, it's his pursuit of power and need for strength.

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When Naruto suddenly displays great feats of ability, whether due to Kurama or his own willpower, Sasuke is threatened. It's not by the fact that Naruto is stronger, but as Naruto catches up, Sasuke feels like he's slowing down. He can't afford to slow down in terms of progress. In fact, he needs to improve even faster to overwhelm Itachi. This is made even more apparent during their confrontation in the hotel with Jiraiya.


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Now, Sasuke has always had two forces inside of him struggling as a part of his identity; his merciless need for power to take vengeance, and the human part that requires the bonds Kishimoto makes a theme of in the series. Since the formation of Team 7, the latter side has steadily been growing larger and larger, and effectively pushing down the former. However, this event is what reignites that spark inside of him, that hatred that drives him to pursue without regard for his own safety or for others.

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Orochimaru sees this as the perfect opportunity to make his move; Sasuke is at his most vulnerable. When the Sound Four arrive to offer him power, it's one that he can't refuse. At least, not then; Sasuke's realized that he's nowhere near Itachi's level, and doesn't have any visible method to catch up. However, Orochimaru hands him one on a silver platter, and despite the risks, it's the only way.

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At the Valley of the End, Sasuke fights Naruto. He lets the hatred take him over and is completely willing to kill Naruto to leave himself with nothing but thoughts of vengeance aka severing the bonds. It's also at this point, when Naruto is able to fight evenly with Sasuke with the help of Kurama, that Sasuke is once again threatened by the strength. He has to be the strongest, especially compared to Naruto, or else his life has no meaning. This is the reason why he's willing to hand over his life and body to Orochimaru, stating that together they can kill Itachi. He's doesn't want any other reason that might hold himself back to stay alive if sacrificing himself can achieve his goal.

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The result of this battle has a ton of impact on Sasuke

 

  • Naruto doesn't hit Sasuke head on with his Rasengan, opting to scratch his forehead protector instead
     
  • Sasuke defeats Naruto with the help of the Cursed Seal (at this point, Sasuke doesn't know about Kurama, but realizes that Naruto has a secret source of power due to his Sharingan)
     
  • Sasuke is heavily injured, coughing up blood and knowing that Naruto had a good chance of winning if he was fighting to kill, like Sasuke was trying (Sasuke has intuition that Rasengan is more powerful than Chidori, evidence by their effects on the water containers during their rooftop showdown before).

 
Sasuke chooses to spare Naruto, not attaining Mangekyo Sharingan. He gives the reason that he doesn't want to follow Itachi's footsteps, not wanting to be like him. However, he also still possesses that shred of empathy for his best friend, that never truly goes away even until the end of the series. He's already leaving behind Kakashi and Sakura, but Sasuke can't bring himself to take Naruto away from them at the same time.

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Over the next 2 and a half years, Sasuke learns everything he can from Orochimaru. He's spent all this time away from his companions, and so the concept of warmth has all but left him. Despite meeting his former comrades again, he evidently feels nothing for them. Even if he did, Sasuke recognizes that Sai has taken his place on the team, using that to reinforce his thoughts that there's nothing to go back to. Displaying his newly gained power, Sasuke overwhelms them. He also now knows of Kurama's existence. From this point on, Naruto is no longer a threatening existence to him. Combined with the emotionless living over the last near 3 years, Sasuke is now completely willing to kill Naruto, only to be called off by Orochimaru.

 
This mentality carries forwards until Sasuke's showdown with Itachi. After years of painful struggling and striving, this is the exact moment Sasuke has lived for. However, it is also the second soul-crushing moment in Sasuke's life.

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Tobi/Madara tells him the entire story, of Itachi's intentions, his love, and his lies all for his sake. Itachi orchestrated his entire life to be for his beloved younger brother's benefit, even though it didn't go perfectly. Due to Sasuke's status as a Missing Nin, he wouldn't be hailed as a hero for killing Itachi. Even so, Itachi's final acts were also for Sasuke, using his power to force Orochimaru's remnant to appear so he could cleanse Sasuke of his existence entirely.

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Sasuke should no doubt be emotionally destroyed at this point, and he is; his entire life was a lie, and he killed the person who loved him more than anything. The only way to deal with his grief is to overwrite it, and he does so by planning to destroy the village that sentenced Itachi to the cruelest fate possible, and took away his family. Now, Sasuke realizes that every single bond of his is tied to Konoha. Thus, each and every one of them is now entirely worthless, not by his choice, but by the nature of his newfound goal. He doesn't hesitate to sacrifice Karin or attempt to kill Sakura and Kakashi.

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It is Sasuke's final meeting with Itachi, brought back from the dead temporarily, to complete his final views. In fear of war, the village sacrificed the Uchiha clan for safety. In fear of rebellion, Itachi had been chosen to massacre them. In fear for his brother, Itachi agrees killing nearly everyone he knows and loves. For revenge, Sasuke vows to kill Itachi, not knowing the truth. To kill Itachi, Sasuke pushes away those who care and abandons those who are dear to him. The cycle goes on, known as the never ending cycle of hatred. Realizing that he himself had propagated this cycle, Sasuke plans on sacrificing himself to atone (very similar to Code Geass' Zero Requiem).

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Yet, he's once again held back by the same person who has been feverishly chasing after him all this time, hoping to save him. At this point, in the final battle between Sasuke and Naruto, Sasuke is completely exhausted. Not physically or mentally, but on the innermost level. Putting it simply, the kitten he had to go through again and again his entire life was absurd. As Naruto and Sasuke lie there waiting to die with their arms blown off and bleeding out, Sasuke has nothing left. Not wanting to kill another person who cared deeply for him like Itachi did, Sasuke surrenders to Naruto after hearing his resolve.

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Now, some of you are wondering why Sasuke ended up with Sakura in the end. Well, two main reasons. 1) There really aren't many girls who'd go after a guy who tried to lead a revolution to destroy the current world, and 2) Sakura is the one of many who has shown Sasuke this level of romantic affection for his looks... Sasuke himself has been deprived of affection his entire life. All the girls flocking to him were there due to his looks. The only people who are still alive that Sasuke can actually consider friends are Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, Suigetsu, Jugo, and Karin. He was never that close to Suigetsu, Jugo was only with him because he saw Kimimaro in him, and Karin is an obsessed stalker for the most part.

 
Fun fact: Sasuke associates forehead contact with affection due to Itachi and Naruto. Itachi spent his whole life poking Sasuke's forehead, as well as his final action alive, and Naruto scratched Sasuke's forehead protector, which became a memento kept throughout the years.

 
That's about it. Thanks for reading, and feel free to drop a comment if you have opinions or questions.

 
EDIT: Just adding in here due to some points I've seen in the comments: This is not to excuse Sasuke for his actions and crimes. He is not a flawless character, and he is responsible for his choices. I only wished to clarify the reasons why he makes them and what motivates him.

Edited by BestSasuHinaSupporter, 13 January 2017 - 04:56 PM.


#9 BestSasuHinaSupporter

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 05:24 PM

Haha. Thanks for taking your time to make a big reply, it was honestly a nice read and a really well written summary of Sasuke.

I'm well aware of the upsides of Sasuke you mentioned since i re-read the manga couple months ago and analized deeper while reading volume after volume. 

Kishimoto created Team-7 as a feudion Trio (used in many other shows) 
One Character is driven by Logic and Instinct (Naruto)
One Character is driven by emotions and reasons (Sasuke) 
One Character is balancing the other 2 out (Sakura)

The benefit of a feudion-Trio is that you don't have the need of a complex Character because they already balance each other out. Creating a complex Character is always one of the most difficult task writing withing a Story since it create many rooms for mistakes (but its also rewarded the most if its done right). 

Sasuke is the one following his emotion of hate towards Itachi (the reason of needing more power to handle itachi), while Naruto tries to keep Sasuke in place so he don't get swallowed by the hate (the logic of being a teammate and a friend). The fact that Sasuke cared sometimes for his teammates (for example when he protected naruto from the attack of haku) was only because Naruto and Sakura had a impact on Sasuke (blancing each other out) -> thats why he was a good character in Season-1.

You have a lot room for the 3rd member to push the teamdynamic in a certain direction. having Sakura there who favors Sasuke over Naruto to create a bad teamdynamic was Kishimotos intention -> because he was already planing breaking them apart at the end of Season 1.

If u compare it to 'Rin' (Team Minato) then you notice that she clearly balanced the team out to create a harmonic teamdynamic. despite having a crush on Kakashi she still took care of Obito (even more than for kakashi) and always handled the rivalry between them. Sakura prioritized her crush over a harmonic teamdynamic - but that was Kishimotos intention.

Its really important to discuss this stuff for the following part where Kishimoto changed the Character-constellation.

Kishimoto made Sasuke to a stand-alone Character with a lot of Screentime during Shippuden. Without having Naruto and Sakura there to balance him out it was needed to improve his Character into an complex Character. But he didn't. Sasuke stood as the Character who was driven only by his own emotions and reasons  for the whole show. You can't really call it "development" if u just changes his emotions to create a different ambition with a new reason. 

- it would be the logical-right way to return back to konoha after killing Orochimaru. Konoha (aka Naruto) wanted him back, so there were the option for him to return back to konoha, i mean thats why they chased him for. As the last Uchiha he had a reputation within Konoha so they would support him to re-build his own clan (and that was one of his goals), while Naruto and the other shinobis would support him to hunt akatsuki down -> to hunt Itachi. With his decision against this option he just made the way to acchieve his own goals harder.

- It was completly nonsense for him to support akatsuki. he changed his ambition to destroy konoha, so why would he 'busy' himself with killer-bee ? why not instead hunting down Naruto who was also a jinchuriki. i mean you already mentioned that he wanted to destroy everything related to konoha. Since when was Sasuke the guy who would let him be distracted from his own goals by unneeded other things with 0 benefits for him ?

- He killed Danzo because of the way how Danzo was leading Konoha in the background. Danzos leading-style was to kill the ones who would harm the peace (the uchiha) - no matter how much hate he would distract to him. Later Sasuke is following Danzos footstep by trying to kill the Kages to create his own peace ???????????????

You see there is 0 Logic behind most of his actions, because kishimoto didn't develop Sasuke to a complex character -> and that was really needed, because there were no one else who balanced him out. He could fix that with 'Team Hebi' but his new team didn't have the same influence on him as 'Team 7' did back in the days. 

Its the same with Naruto who only follows his logic and not using once his emotions. The way how he surpressed his own emotions for the sake of the 'logic' was pretty annoying because thats why his talking-no-jutsus always worked. 

- i dont kill nagato because the logic of the story wants me to create peace without killing one -> talking no jutsu
- i dont kill obito because the logic of the story wants me to create peace without killing one -> talking no jutsu

How can someone not have the intention to kill someone if the guy infront of u was the reason for your abysmall childhood and the death of your parents ? that was hurting Naruto as a Character

With the introduction of Sai i was really hoping that he would have enough influence on Naruto so that he would get rid of his obession towards sasuke -> sadly didnt happened

The Fact that i find Naruto less annoying and bad-written than Sasuke is because he didn't changed Naruto much through out the story (u got used to him).. while he was keep chaning Sasuke for a different purpose without any logic and sense and that was horrible (for me Sasuke was more like a clown at the end - while naruto was kishis little puppet to display the fairytale-logic in his story)

The last point:

Kishimotos last move to 'develop' Sasuke  was to change him complety. he becomes like naruto.. supress own emotions and just follows the logic of the show. After chapter 698 he becomes a second version of Naruto.. just in a calm way and as a loner-shinobi.








 

I agree that Sasuke is a jerk. he's not a flawless characte,r and he's definitely not excused from his actions. I only wanted to curve away some of the necessary hate he gets from being a misinterpreted character.

 
Two points on your thoughts. Gaara, Sasuke, and Naruto are three characters with similar childhoods, but with different circumstances and personalities. Each one attributes to their starting point and their growth. Kishimoto did a really good job during the Chuunin Exam/Leaf Invasion arc displaying the interactions and dissimilarities between Naruto and Gaara.

 
Both of them had just one person in their childhood who loved and cared for them; Naruto had Iruka, and Gaara had Yashamaru. Each of these individuals were able to see past the Tailed Beast inside them and treat them as humans. However, Yashamaru appeared to betray Gaara just as Itachi did to Sasuke. Because Gaara was truly alone with that single exception, compared to Sasuke to still had his family and clan, the impact was so much greater. Eventually, Naruto also had Team 7, while Gaara's siblings and sensei feared him to the point of submissiveness. I'd also say that despite the events surrounding them, Gaara and Naruto are more similar than either one of them to Sasuke.

 
Now, if there was one defining difference between Sasuke and Gaara, it was that Itachi's survival is a prominent part of Sasuke's identity. With Gaara, Yashamaru is dead; he has no one else in his life at all who is connected to him. Gaara was shunned by his siblings and effectively thrown away by his father; they're just as good as strangers to him. However, Sasuke still has Itachi; not as a caring individual, but a goal. Gaara's existence is now defined by his survival; he's always had assassins come after him, and he's always survived by killing them. His entire identity revolves around fighting and being the sole winner, and this relationship is the same between himself and anyone else in the world.

 
Gaara's first real "impact" of losing was against Sasuke, and his first real complete loss was against Naruto in the forest. This is hugely important for how he develops. Sasuke was the one Gaara held as his opponent, or "target" if that makes more sense. He was the first person other than Gaara himself to draw blood from Gaara, beginning his mental breakdown during the Chuunin Exams. It was the first shock of weakness he'd been exposed to.

 
It's not until the invasion itself when Gaara realizes that Naruto is also a jinchuuriki, and views him as a mirror of himself. It's the moment when he sees Naruto still struggling to fight even when both of them are entirely exhausted that Gaara sees there's more to a person than just pure fighting ability, beginning his growth to reconnect with his siblings and to become Kazekage.

 
If Sasuke had somehow killed Itachi the same night as the Uchiha massacre, who knows; maybe we'd see more a more Gaara-like Sasuke. However, it's Itachi's existence as a living individual that Sasuke's entire young life revolves around. He can never move on until Itachi is dead by his hands.

 
Here's the big misunderstanding people have about Sasuke; they assume he's a self-centered character who does everything because it's what he just feels like. That's incorrect. When he vows to kill Itachi, it's not only because he wants revenge for himself; it's because he wants revenge for every single Uchiha, including their own mother and father. When Sasuke vows to destroy the Leaf, he's doing it for Itachi. Regardless of Itachi's view on it, the Leaf Village is the source of Itachi's cruel and painful life. This is confirmed when Sasuke states that it was someone like Itachi who should've been Hokage. If Sasuke's wish to kill Itachi is 50% motivated by himself, and 50% motivated by the death of his clan, then Sasuke's wish to destroy the Leaf is near 100% motivated by Itachi's existence to him.

 
Don't forget that during the fight with Killer B, Sasuke told Suigetsu, Jugo, and Karin to all retreat when the situation became dangerous. He was willing to let himself get killed to make sure his team survived; it was their choice to step in to protect him.


I agree with you there; I don't really understand his motivations and personality after the main story is over. I'm glad he managed to finally meet Sarada once she was old enough to remember him, but he seems off. Thanks for reading!



#10 Young Kubrick

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 11:27 PM

OP said pretty much everything that needed to be said about Sasuke as a character. River literally said everything that I've thought and things I never even thought of. I mean having the story revolving around the relationship between Naruto and Sasuke is one thing, but this is how Sasuke is written? I mean Naruto isn't high art or anything but for the love of god is this the best Kishi could do? 


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#11 Young Kubrick

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 12:23 AM

 

 

 

Sasuke starts out the story as someone whose literally lost everything

 

Let me stop you right there. This is literally every single argument about Sasuke. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. "Oh he lost everything". "Oh he endured a tragedy". You say that like it's not a well known fact. No one is denying that. Now look at all the points OP made. If you can say that everything Sasuke did in the points made is because of his horrible past-in more than just a psychological sense-than what we have here is (at least in what I'm seeing) a one-note character.

 

Seriously try to take the deaths of the Uchiha, and Sasuke's pain out of the equation for just a moment. What do you have? Yes his pain and suffering is his driving force, what makes him do what he does. But in Sasuke's case that driving force IS the character.

 

Other characters like Batman, Darth Vader, Spawn, etc. are also driven by pain and the need for vengeance and retribution and even wear it on their sleeves but they become something more than the pain that created them. Darth Vader is an example of as Nietzsche put it staring into the abyss long enough that it stares back and becoming the same monster he fought against, but also an example of redemption. Spawn-besides being ridiculously over-powered-is a character who decides to stop being a pawn in other's scheme and rebels. And among the many interpretations of Batman the most prominent-especially in the Nolan movies-is that he is a man who becomes an ideal. All of these characters are forged into something else by pain, anger, tragedy, but even though it all goes back to their tragedies, they become something more than their tragedies. Can you say the same about Sasuke?


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#12 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 05:08 PM

Sasuke's past like most criminals explains his action, but it does not excuse them.



#13 BestSasuHinaSupporter

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 08:04 PM

 

 

 

Let me stop you right there. This is literally every single argument about Sasuke. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. "Oh he lost everything". "Oh he endured a tragedy". You say that like it's not a well known fact. No one is denying that. Now look at all the points OP made. If you can say that everything Sasuke did in the points made is because of his horrible past-in more than just a psychological sense-than what we have here is (at least in what I'm seeing) a one-note character.

 

Seriously try to take the deaths of the Uchiha, and Sasuke's pain out of the equation for just a moment. What do you have? Yes his pain and suffering is his driving force, what makes him do what he does. But in Sasuke's case that driving force IS the character.

 

Other characters like Batman, Darth Vader, Spawn, etc. are also driven by pain and the need for vengeance and retribution and even wear it on their sleeves but they become something more than the pain that created them. Darth Vader is an example of as Nietzsche put it staring into the abyss long enough that it stares back and becoming the same monster he fought against, but also an example of redemption. Spawn-besides being ridiculously over-powered-is a character who decides to stop being a pawn in other's scheme and rebels. And among the many interpretations of Batman the most prominent-especially in the Nolan movies-is that he is a man who becomes an ideal. All of these characters are forged into something else by pain, anger, tragedy, but even though it all goes back to their tragedies, they become something more than their tragedies. Can you say the same about Sasuke?

 

Many points from anti Sasuke people only reinforces that they are only able to see it from a single perspective.

 
We're talking about children here. Literally every major event in the main series takes place before they've even hit 18. Children aren't as developed as adults; yeah, I know what you're saying. "No kitten." But keep this in mind; children can only see things from their point of view because they don't have the matured capacity to understand things from a larger one. Sakura had probably the most normal childhood out of the entire team; she got picked on as a kid, she lived with her family, and she had an ordinary life. She isn't haunted by some trauma or lacks any core part of average childhood. That's why she's so normal, wanting to do well in school and wanting the boy who she likes to like her back.

 
Compare that to Naruto and Sasuke. The two of them are so relatively alike in their circumstances with family, but couldn't be more different. Sasuke's always been hailed as a genius, while Naruto is someone labeled as a failure. However, Naruto was, quoting Kishimoto, alone from the start. He didn't lose something; it was never there to begin with. Though he was alone, there wasn't anything ripped away from him. That's why, despite the silent resentment of the villagers, he's able to live as a "normal kid" in school. He craves attention and affection; Sasuke has everything he wants during the days of the academy.

 
From the day that the Uchiha massacre occurred, Sasuke's childhood was over. He can't be bothered with being friends with other kids his age, and thus is left with that "too cool for school" attitude. As I've already stated, Sasuke literally can't let others get close to him because the one whom he trusted and loved more than anyone else, Itachi, was the one who seemingly betrayed him and took everything away. Itachi promised that he'd one day return to kill Sasuke, so now Sasuke lives in complete fear and anticipation of when that day arrives. He can't spend his time dawdling around in immature affairs and investing his emotions in these seemingly pointless relationships when he can use that time to become stronger so he can survive.

 
Despite the glaring dissimilarities between Sasuke and Naruto, they share one common fact; they're objectified by the village. Naruto is looked upon with hatred and disdain because no one can see anything but the Nine-Tailed Fox. Maybe the other students would've been friends with him without knowing, but it's their parents that tell them to stay away from him to begin with. In fact, even those who don't get this warning only see Naruto as a loser and failure, and stay well away from getting close to him. Despite this, Naruto had Choji, Kiba, and Shikamaru; people who could've been friends, with the 4 of them slacking about or messing around in the academy.

 
Sasuke doesn't have this basis of friendship; no one wants to become friends with him. And it's not because of his arrogant personality; this is common before the Uchiha massacre even happens. Sasuke isn't a person in other people's eyes; he's a goal. Other guys (Lee, Neji, Gaara, and Naruto himself) only want to fight and defeat him. All the girls (Ino, Sakura) only see him has a hunk that they want to have as a boyfriend without knowing anything about him. It's no wonder he's so distant from everything. This isn't a one-way street:

 
Sasuke is alone because others push him away just as much as he pushes them away.

 
Now, let's move onto the time of Team 7. Sasuke is already the most mature compared to Sakura and Naruto. Even though his words hold them in annoyance, his actions prove otherwise. To speed this up, let's just make a quick list of bullet points:

 
  • During the Bells test, he offers Naruto his lunch so the three of them stand a chance against Kakashi, though he was told it was explicitly against the rules
     
  • During the Land of Waves arc and Chuunin Exams arc, he protects and saves Naruto and Sakura multiple times.
     
  • He saves Naruto from Haku's attack though it seemed like death in his eyes
     
  • When Temari and Kankuro begin to aggress onto Naruto and Sakura, he steps in and involves himself though he has no reason to without a mission
     
  • Against Orochimaru in the Forest of Death, he offers to stay back and delay Orochimaru while telling his team to escape, even though he already knows he's no match for him
     
  • He's the one who comes up with the plans and is the de facto leader of Team 7 when Kakashi isn't around

 
Keep in mind that third bullet point. This is the turning point when Sasuke becomes humanized in Naruto's and Sakura's eyes. He's always been a figure of absolute confidence and power, undefeatable and strong. The moment Naruto and Sakura think he's dead, that image is now wiped away; they realize he's a human just like they are.

 
Moving forward, let's go to the Valley of the End. If Sasuke is as big of a self-centered kitten you want to believe, he had every reason to kill Naruto to get Mangekyo Sharingan and get on with his life. He doesn't.

 
With Hebi/Taka, Sasuke acts as the mediator between Suigetsu and Karin. He also makes a move to sacrifice himself when things don't go smoothly against Killer B to let this team survive.

 
I could continue deeper into Shippuden, but I think you don't really want to spend more time reading my wall of text (unless you do, in which case I'll gladly continue).

 
You see, everyone seems to think the words of a character are everything that defines who they are, you included. You need to look at their actions, for they speak louder than words.


#14 BestSasuHinaSupporter

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 10:18 PM

Sasuke's past like most criminals explains his action, but it does not excuse them.

What crimes has Sasuke committed ?  :huh: 


Sasuke took credit for crimes he didn't actually commit lets go over it:



His Crimes of Murder ?


Sasuke was criminally charged for "Killing" Orochimaru ?


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Sasuke felt it was finally time to cut his ties with Orochimaru so Sasuke then proceeded to enter the room Orochimaru was in, then Sasuke attempted to Pierce Orochimaru to impale him but Orochimaru redirected the attack with his arms, Orochimaru was baffled by this behavior of Sasuke and then Sasuke explained that it was because Orochimaru had nothing more to teach Sasuke and also the reason he wanted to end his life so that he would stop trying to steal his Sharingan so then Sasuke and Orochimaru begin their battle, eventually Sasuke was getting the upper hand on him so Sasuke then proceeded to absorb Orochimaru in his body, after Sasuke absorbed Orochimaru Sasuke instructed Kabuto to spread the word that Sasuke killed Orochimaru when he really didn't because he ABSORBED Orochimaru not killed him


And the fact that Orochimaru is alive and well at the end of the Naruto series but is on parole CLEARLY means he is not dead but for some odd reason Orochimaru's death is still listed under the list of crimes Sasuke committed ?  :huh: 




Sasuke was criminally charged for "Killing" Deidara ?


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Sasuke approached Deidara to interrogate him to get some information of the whereabouts of his older brother Itachi but Deidara was non-compliant so he attacked Sasuke which lead to their showdown, eventually at the end of their battle lead to a stalemate with both Sasuke and Deidara depleted of most of their chakra but Sasuke never had any intention of killing him but however Deidara was planning to kill him so as a act of desperation Deidara used the last bit of his remaining chakra to use a technique to detonate and blow himself up taking him and Sasuke along in the blast but before the blast hit Sasuke, Sasuke also used a technique in a act of desperation he quickly summoned Manda and went inside of Manda's Belly to shield him from Deidara self destruct technique then after Deidara's self destruct technique finally detonated the area surrounding Sasuke and Deidara was destroyed ending Deidara's life but Sasuke lived due to using Manda as a shield but Now Sasuke is being accused of killing Deidara when he actually didn't, Deidara blew his own self up.



Sasuke was criminally charged for "Killing" Itachi ?



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Sasuke had the intention to kill Itachi because he was lead to believe that the reason why Itachi wiped out the Uchiha clan was that so Itachi could test his power when the true reason why he did it was because Itachi was being manipulated by Danzo to do so, Sasuke spent nearly half his life training and tracking down the whereabouts of Itachi to end his life, eventually after years of long searching Sasuke finally discovered the location of Itachi's whereabouts which was at the Uchiha hideout, After Sasuke entered the Uchiha hideout of which Itachi was currently at Sasuke approached itachi and then they began their final battle of life and death, eventually Itachi began to get the upper hand on Sasuke due to Itachi's Sharigan being on a higher level, then Itachi approached Sasuke with his Susano which forced Sasuke to back up on a wall but the real reason Itachi approached Sasuke was that so he could put his fingers on his forehead to show in Sasukes mind the real reason why Itachi wiped out the Uchiha clan, Itachi died immediately afterwards due to a unknown illness not because Sasuke actually killed him, but Sasuke is now being charged with Killing Itachi which is not true because Itachi was already dying from a unknown illness that he had.



Sasuke was criminally charged for "Killing" the Samurai at the 5 Kage summit ? 


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Sasuke had his Sharingan active the entire time he "Stabbed" the Samurai at the 5 Kage summit "Killing" them ?  :huh: those Samurai could have all be under a genjutsu from the effects of the Sharingan because if you look into the eyes of a Sharingan user directly they can put you under a genjutsu, So Sasuke made those Samurai think they were being stabbed and gave the illusion to the others watching  that he Killed those Samurai, All of the people in that Kage summit building including Sasuke's friends Suigetsu and Jugo were looking into Sasukes eye's while he "Stabbed" and "Killed" those Samurai so they ALSO were being decieved by the Sharingan that Sasuke killed those Samurai


Because later on in that Scene the area of that room where Sasuke "Killed" Those Samurai the Samurai and their "Corpses" were not there ? which could mean that it was just a illusion that Sasuke "Killed" those Samurai in that area 



Sasuke was criminally charged for "Killing" Danzo ? 


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Sasuke went on a hunt to track down Danzo to avenge the members of his fallen clan the (Uchiha Clan) Sasuke DID have the intent to kill Danzo, eventually Sasuke finally tracked and found the whereabouts of Danzo, then he approached Danzo to end his life for causing his Clan and his brother Itachi so much pain, Then Sasuke and Danzo fought each other until eventually Sasuke gained the upper hand in their battle so as a act of desperation Danzo was getting ready to Set off the bombs he had attached to his body planning to take his life along with Sasuke's, then Danzo set off the bombs attached to his Body self destructing himself ending his life but Sasuke manage to avoid the blast radius, But now Sasuke is being charged for killing Danzo when he actually didn't, Danzo blew himself up.



Yes joining the Akatsuki is a crime which Sasuke did, But Sasuke failed to complete every task given to him as a Akatsuki member, He failed to retrieve the 8 tails (Killer B) He failed to capture the 9 tails (Naruto) so technically he didn't commit any crimes as a Akatsuki member because of that since he wasn't actually able to get the crimes done.




Sasuke actually has a clean record, but he just wont admit that he didn't commit the crimes that he is being accused of, Sasuke has never killed a single person in his entire life.


Edited by BestSasuHinaSupporter, 18 January 2017 - 10:41 PM.


#15 Young Kubrick

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 11:05 PM

 

Many points from anti Sasuke people only reinforces that they are only able to see it from a single perspective.

 
We're talking about children here. Literally every major event in the main series takes place before they've even hit 18. Children aren't as developed as adults; yeah, I know what you're saying. "No kitten." But keep this in mind; children can only see things from their point of view because they don't have the matured capacity to understand things from a larger one. Sakura had probably the most normal childhood out of the entire team; she got picked on as a kid, she lived with her family, and she had an ordinary life. She isn't haunted by some trauma or lacks any core part of average childhood. That's why she's so normal, wanting to do well in school and wanting the boy who she likes to like her back.

 
Compare that to Naruto and Sasuke. The two of them are so relatively alike in their circumstances with family, but couldn't be more different. Sasuke's always been hailed as a genius, while Naruto is someone labeled as a failure. However, Naruto was, quoting Kishimoto, alone from the start. He didn't lose something; it was never there to begin with. Though he was alone, there wasn't anything ripped away from him. That's why, despite the silent resentment of the villagers, he's able to live as a "normal kid" in school. He craves attention and affection; Sasuke has everything he wants during the days of the academy.

 
From the day that the Uchiha massacre occurred, Sasuke's childhood was over. He can't be bothered with being friends with other kids his age, and thus is left with that "too cool for school" attitude. As I've already stated, Sasuke literally can't let others get close to him because the one whom he trusted and loved more than anyone else, Itachi, was the one who seemingly betrayed him and took everything away. Itachi promised that he'd one day return to kill Sasuke, so now Sasuke lives in complete fear and anticipation of when that day arrives. He can't spend his time dawdling around in immature affairs and investing his emotions in these seemingly pointless relationships when he can use that time to become stronger so he can survive.

 
Despite the glaring dissimilarities between Sasuke and Naruto, they share one common fact; they're objectified by the village. Naruto is looked upon with hatred and disdain because no one can see anything but the Nine-Tailed Fox. Maybe the other students would've been friends with him without knowing, but it's their parents that tell them to stay away from him to begin with. In fact, even those who don't get this warning only see Naruto as a loser and failure, and stay well away from getting close to him. Despite this, Naruto had Choji, Kiba, and Shikamaru; people who could've been friends, with the 4 of them slacking about or messing around in the academy.

 
Sasuke doesn't have this basis of friendship; no one wants to become friends with him. And it's not because of his arrogant personality; this is common before the Uchiha massacre even happens. Sasuke isn't a person in other people's eyes; he's a goal. Other guys (Lee, Neji, Gaara, and Naruto himself) only want to fight and defeat him. All the girls (Ino, Sakura) only see him has a hunk that they want to have as a boyfriend without knowing anything about him. It's no wonder he's so distant from everything. This isn't a one-way street:

 
Sasuke is alone because others push him away just as much as he pushes them away.

 
Now, let's move onto the time of Team 7. Sasuke is already the most mature compared to Sakura and Naruto. Even though his words hold them in annoyance, his actions prove otherwise. To speed this up, let's just make a quick list of bullet points:

 
  • During the Bells test, he offers Naruto his lunch so the three of them stand a chance against Kakashi, though he was told it was explicitly against the rules
     
  • During the Land of Waves arc and Chuunin Exams arc, he protects and saves Naruto and Sakura multiple times.
     
  • He saves Naruto from Haku's attack though it seemed like death in his eyes
     
  • When Temari and Kankuro begin to aggress onto Naruto and Sakura, he steps in and involves himself though he has no reason to without a mission
     
  • Against Orochimaru in the Forest of Death, he offers to stay back and delay Orochimaru while telling his team to escape, even though he already knows he's no match for him
     
  • He's the one who comes up with the plans and is the de facto leader of Team 7 when Kakashi isn't around

 
Keep in mind that third bullet point. This is the turning point when Sasuke becomes humanized in Naruto's and Sakura's eyes. He's always been a figure of absolute confidence and power, undefeatable and strong. The moment Naruto and Sakura think he's dead, that image is now wiped away; they realize he's a human just like they are.

 
Moving forward, let's go to the Valley of the End. If Sasuke is as big of a self-centered kitten you want to believe, he had every reason to kill Naruto to get Mangekyo Sharingan and get on with his life. He doesn't.

 
With Hebi/Taka, Sasuke acts as the mediator between Suigetsu and Karin. He also makes a move to sacrifice himself when things don't go smoothly against Killer B to let this team survive.

 
I could continue deeper into Shippuden, but I think you don't really want to spend more time reading my wall of text (unless you do, in which case I'll gladly continue).

 
You see, everyone seems to think the words of a character are everything that defines who they are, you included. You need to look at their actions, for they speak louder than words.

 

 

Everything there literally has nothing to do with what I was saying. Literally nothing. What I said was that the way Kishi drilled into the plot and dialogue about Sasuke's anguish it got to the point that there is almost nothing else to him as a character. Everything you said doesn't have anything to do with that and kinda goes along with what I was saying

 

Also when did I ever say that he was self-centered? 


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#16 Yyubie

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 11:55 PM

Sasuke's past like most criminals explains his action, but it does not excuse them.

His attidute / behavior stinks.  One person kitten him up, and then the whole world must feel his revenge Typical terrorist behavior ... one people hurt them and then he bomb a whole country.


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#17 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 01:55 AM

Why do his supporter forget that: he was part of a terrorist group, attacked & abducted a high ranking person from another village, invaded a summit of world leaders, went rouge, attacked people from his own country, threatened to kill people from his own country, attempted to kill his former squad-mates constantly, abandon his friends country &  morals seeking power for revenge, joined a man who killed two world leaders instigated a war between two countries, join an another man who declared war on the world, helped a plan that would end free will until his brother convinced him to be against it, and tried once again to kill all the world leaders in order to start a revolution in order to create a totalitarian regime that he controls from the shadows through fear (and possibly mind control)?


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 19 January 2017 - 11:47 AM.


#18 BestSasuHinaSupporter

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 02:16 AM

Fuuck All Anti Sasuke People!


Uchiha Sasuke is a character whom I appreciate a lot and to analyze his personality was really interesting and so very complicated. However, I was confronted with a very interesting problem during this analysis. Contrary to Deidara, Sasori, Kakuzu or Hidan, I do not manage to analyze Sasuke with regard to his individual behavior. I found several points of view to analyze him, but all worked on a principle of confrontation with other characters to manage to encircle Sasuke’s personality. That I thought as a problem at first, turned out to be the most important and revealing point about Sasuke. I will let you discover this analysis, hoping that it will please you and hope that the many mistakes will not disrupt your reading.

 

To begin Sasuke’s analysis, I am going to begin with his childhood and especially with his relation with the person who had the most impact in his life : Uchiha Itachi. The brotherly bond establishes one of the three big links (with the conjugal bond and the parental bond) which structure the family. It plays a considerable role in the intrapsychic, emotional and social life of the subject. The hatred, the competition, the passion, the jealousy and love involve in the brotherly relation. I took the next quotations in a French public site of psychology and sociology. 


“The brotherly experience has a fundamental role in the construction of the personality by means of the process of differentiation of the sibship. The place of every child within the family system is very different: the first child sees himself as the love child, the second of the disappointment one.”

 

The disappointment? That reminded me of the relation between Fugaku and Sasuke. Fugaku was persuaded that his younger son would be exactly like Itachi, but finally, Sasuke progresses more slowly than Itachi and that disappoints him. Then, as regards the construction of the personality, it’s obvious that Sasuke became what Itachi made of him. All Itachi’s choices influenced Sasuke’s personality. Itachi said it :“It’s my fault if you are like that […]”


 

However, how could we understand this phenomenon between Itachi and Sasuke? Well, I suggest you going further into human psychology with Freud. 

 

Freud went deeper into the brotherly jealousy when he describes the normal jealousy in Œdipe or the brotherly complex. This complex contains in one hand the mourning and the suffering for the supposed lost object and in the other hand, a narcissistic humiliation bound to the hostile feelings to the rival (Itachi). Freud puts then in a report : the homosexuality and the strong brotherly jealousy, to the older brother in particular. (ItaSasu fans, it’s for you! ahaha) This jealousy can aggravate to arrive until the desire of his death. Then this rivalry can be overtaken and brother-rival is then transformed into an object of very deep love. Even if Sasuke doesn’t want Itachi’s death, when he was a child, Sasuke said that there was a tiny part of him who didn’t love his brother because he was really jealous of him. 


“The ban on the incest puts itself in the center of the brotherly relation (Totem and Taboo, in 1913). The incestuous feelings of the brother towards his brother can establish a dynamics conflicts. The brotherly link is constituted as well by tenderness as by sexuality (if we take into account the erotic games during the physical closeness of the sibship).”

 

The physical closeness? Well, the novel “Itachi Shinden” taught us that Itachi slept in the same room and the same bed as Sasuke. Then Sasuke made many hugs to Itachi when they were children. They were always very close.

 

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Lacan, a French psychoanalyst, was particularly interested in the brotherly relation in his work on “The family complexes”. He studies the family complexes which have a fundamental role in the organization of the bonds and the psychic reality of the subject. He distinguishes three successive complexes: the complex of the weaning, the intrusion, and Œdipe.


“In the complex of the intrusion, the child is in front of his brother and observes him with a big curiosity. He imitates him in his movements, he tries to seduce him or to stand out by becoming a real show for him. It’s something more than a simple game : the child tries to socially position himself by love, by comparison to the other one, to his brother.” 

 

Another fact of seduction? It reminded me of the scene where Sasuke watches Itachi training with shurikens, then Itachi tells him to come back to home but Sasuke smiles to him and tells him : “Nii-san, look at me!” Then twist his ankle. Then as regards the observation, Itachi is a subject of fascination for Sasuke. He is in the shadow of this young man to whom everything successful! He is handsome, strong, smart, kind and appreciated by everyone. Sasuke is really frustrated because to become stronger than Itachi is doubtless the most difficult thing which he could undertake in his life and he feels that he is already late. But at the same time, he cannot stop himself to feel a big admiration to Itachi, an admiration which he will keep throughout his life.

 

tumblr_nmt3q8AwRU1us1cguo1_500.gif

 

For me, Sasuke is a teenager who has not yet managed to get rid of his childhood. And this childish behavior is visible only when that concerns Itachi. Sasuke idealizes his older brother just like a child would make it. Nobody has the right to speak ill of Itachi, or to criticize him because, for Sasuke, Itachi is the perfect man. For him, Itachi has no flaws and not only represents an ideal as a shinobi but also a male ideal. Besides, Sasuke has never stopped loving Itachi, even before he discovers the truth. I also think that Itachi was more than a brother for Sasuke but I will make an analysis on the relation between Itachi and Sasuke and there are MANY things to say! I will just finish with this sentence found in this study which reminded me Sasuke and Itachi :

 

“When there is premature death of a brother, remorse of the survivor become a part of the identity of the subject." 




Sasuke always wanted to surpass his limits to be capable of avenging his family but we fast realize that he also makes that by egocentricity, to surpass Naruto. Because like Deidara, Sasuke has an inferiority complex which had already begun when he was a child, with Itachi. And his frustration repeats itself with Naruto because Naruto puts himself ahead compare to Sasuke, just like Itachi was. Sasuke sees a part of Itachi in Naruto, where from the very strong relation between Naruto and Sasuke. Unconsciously in a lack of his older brother, Sasuke confronts Naruto. For me, that’s it the strength of the relation between Naruto and Sasuke. Even there, I will make an analysis just about them!




What defined Sasuke? Ah, the vengeance. It is not a very vast and not very interesting theme because he is very common in the characters of Naruto. But I found an interesting quotation in one of my French books who is entitled "The Red Moon” (Yes yes “Akatsuki”, aha), written by the talented Jean Lemieux : 

 

“What could be more illusory than the vengeance?”



This quotation takes all its sense when we think of Sasuke. For him, his vengeance in really been illusory. Indeed, Tobi said it to Sasuke, he wasn’t able to thwart Itachi’s illusions and all his vengeance rested only on a lie. Furthermore, the pleasure of the vengeance which promises the happiness and the delivery doesn’t last in reality, that a short moment and after the vengeance: there is nothing more, the nothingness. Exactly, many people blame Sasuke for having a change of heart, and for making stupid and immature decisions.



I think that when Itachi died, the vengeance has left an emptiness in Sasuke who finds himself aimless! Thus, he looks for unconscious ways to divert him from his pain and from this emptiness left by Itachi’s death. And these ways are : To join Akatsuki, destroy Konoha, become Hokage etc… 

 

Even if Sasuke shows nothing, he hates the solitude. And it sees itself : he goes out of his solitude with the team 7, then he goes with Orochimaru and Kabuto, once alone, there is a Hebi / Taka team. Sasuke was never really alone during his adventures. 



I finished this analysis at a point near, I was not able to speak about Sasuke without speaking about his relations. I really tried but except for the vengeance, I found nothing other who is really interesting to exploit in an analysis. Then, I said to myself that it was revealing. Sasuke alone wouldn’t have been the same man. Sasuke is a very influenceable young man and this is why I can explain his personality only through his relations with Itachi, Naruto, his parents etc… Sasuke is what he is today because his path has crossed some people who have changed him, who have given him a purpose, a dream, and many other things!
 

tumblr_ns1gwdhfdL1s2kirpo1_500.gif

 


Thank you for having read this analysis,


Edited by BestSasuHinaSupporter, 19 January 2017 - 02:17 AM.


#19 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 03:04 AM

Why do his supporter forget that: he was part of a terrorist group, attacked & abducted a high ranking person from another village, invaded a summit of world leaders, went rouge, attacked people from his own country, threatened to kill people from his own country, attempted to kill his former squad-mates constantly, abandon his friends country & morals seeking power for revenge, joined a man who killed two world leaders instigated a war between two countries, join an another man who declared war on the world, helped a plan that would end free will until his brother convinced him to be against it, and tried once again to kill all the world leaders in order to start a revolution in order to create a totalitarian regime that he controls from the shadows through fear (and possibly mind control)?

Was anything I said here on my own post that I am quoting; factually incorrect?  


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 19 January 2017 - 04:01 PM.


#20 Young Kubrick

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 06:25 PM

 

Fuuck All Anti Sasuke People!


Uchiha Sasuke is a character whom I appreciate a lot and to analyze his personality was really interesting and so very complicated. However, I was confronted with a very interesting problem during this analysis. Contrary to Deidara, Sasori, Kakuzu or Hidan, I do not manage to analyze Sasuke with regard to his individual behavior. I found several points of view to analyze him, but all worked on a principle of confrontation with other characters to manage to encircle Sasuke’s personality. That I thought as a problem at first, turned out to be the most important and revealing point about Sasuke. I will let you discover this analysis, hoping that it will please you and hope that the many mistakes will not disrupt your reading.

 

To begin Sasuke’s analysis, I am going to begin with his childhood and especially with his relation with the person who had the most impact in his life : Uchiha Itachi. The brotherly bond establishes one of the three big links (with the conjugal bond and the parental bond) which structure the family. It plays a considerable role in the intrapsychic, emotional and social life of the subject. The hatred, the competition, the passion, the jealousy and love involve in the brotherly relation. I took the next quotations in a French public site of psychology and sociology. 


“The brotherly experience has a fundamental role in the construction of the personality by means of the process of differentiation of the sibship. The place of every child within the family system is very different: the first child sees himself as the love child, the second of the disappointment one.”

 

The disappointment? That reminded me of the relation between Fugaku and Sasuke. Fugaku was persuaded that his younger son would be exactly like Itachi, but finally, Sasuke progresses more slowly than Itachi and that disappoints him. Then, as regards the construction of the personality, it’s obvious that Sasuke became what Itachi made of him. All Itachi’s choices influenced Sasuke’s personality. Itachi said it :“It’s my fault if you are like that […]”


 

However, how could we understand this phenomenon between Itachi and Sasuke? Well, I suggest you going further into human psychology with Freud. 

 

Freud went deeper into the brotherly jealousy when he describes the normal jealousy in Œdipe or the brotherly complex. This complex contains in one hand the mourning and the suffering for the supposed lost object and in the other hand, a narcissistic humiliation bound to the hostile feelings to the rival (Itachi). Freud puts then in a report : the homosexuality and the strong brotherly jealousy, to the older brother in particular. (ItaSasu fans, it’s for you! ahaha) This jealousy can aggravate to arrive until the desire of his death. Then this rivalry can be overtaken and brother-rival is then transformed into an object of very deep love. Even if Sasuke doesn’t want Itachi’s death, when he was a child, Sasuke said that there was a tiny part of him who didn’t love his brother because he was really jealous of him. 


“The ban on the incest puts itself in the center of the brotherly relation (Totem and Taboo, in 1913). The incestuous feelings of the brother towards his brother can establish a dynamics conflicts. The brotherly link is constituted as well by tenderness as by sexuality (if we take into account the erotic games during the physical closeness of the sibship).”

 

The physical closeness? Well, the novel “Itachi Shinden” taught us that Itachi slept in the same room and the same bed as Sasuke. Then Sasuke made many hugs to Itachi when they were children. They were always very close.

 

tumblr_inline_o650vtlCOw1tdvn9o_500.jpg


Lacan, a French psychoanalyst, was particularly interested in the brotherly relation in his work on “The family complexes”. He studies the family complexes which have a fundamental role in the organization of the bonds and the psychic reality of the subject. He distinguishes three successive complexes: the complex of the weaning, the intrusion, and Œdipe.


“In the complex of the intrusion, the child is in front of his brother and observes him with a big curiosity. He imitates him in his movements, he tries to seduce him or to stand out by becoming a real show for him. It’s something more than a simple game : the child tries to socially position himself by love, by comparison to the other one, to his brother.” 

 

Another fact of seduction? It reminded me of the scene where Sasuke watches Itachi training with shurikens, then Itachi tells him to come back to home but Sasuke smiles to him and tells him : “Nii-san, look at me!” Then twist his ankle. Then as regards the observation, Itachi is a subject of fascination for Sasuke. He is in the shadow of this young man to whom everything successful! He is handsome, strong, smart, kind and appreciated by everyone. Sasuke is really frustrated because to become stronger than Itachi is doubtless the most difficult thing which he could undertake in his life and he feels that he is already late. But at the same time, he cannot stop himself to feel a big admiration to Itachi, an admiration which he will keep throughout his life.

 

tumblr_nmt3q8AwRU1us1cguo1_500.gif

 

For me, Sasuke is a teenager who has not yet managed to get rid of his childhood. And this childish behavior is visible only when that concerns Itachi. Sasuke idealizes his older brother just like a child would make it. Nobody has the right to speak ill of Itachi, or to criticize him because, for Sasuke, Itachi is the perfect man. For him, Itachi has no flaws and not only represents an ideal as a shinobi but also a male ideal. Besides, Sasuke has never stopped loving Itachi, even before he discovers the truth. I also think that Itachi was more than a brother for Sasuke but I will make an analysis on the relation between Itachi and Sasuke and there are MANY things to say! I will just finish with this sentence found in this study which reminded me Sasuke and Itachi :

 

“When there is premature death of a brother, remorse of the survivor become a part of the identity of the subject." 




Sasuke always wanted to surpass his limits to be capable of avenging his family but we fast realize that he also makes that by egocentricity, to surpass Naruto. Because like Deidara, Sasuke has an inferiority complex which had already begun when he was a child, with Itachi. And his frustration repeats itself with Naruto because Naruto puts himself ahead compare to Sasuke, just like Itachi was. Sasuke sees a part of Itachi in Naruto, where from the very strong relation between Naruto and Sasuke. Unconsciously in a lack of his older brother, Sasuke confronts Naruto. For me, that’s it the strength of the relation between Naruto and Sasuke. Even there, I will make an analysis just about them!




What defined Sasuke? Ah, the vengeance. It is not a very vast and not very interesting theme because he is very common in the characters of Naruto. But I found an interesting quotation in one of my French books who is entitled "The Red Moon” (Yes yes “Akatsuki”, aha), written by the talented Jean Lemieux : 

 

“What could be more illusory than the vengeance?”



This quotation takes all its sense when we think of Sasuke. For him, his vengeance in really been illusory. Indeed, Tobi said it to Sasuke, he wasn’t able to thwart Itachi’s illusions and all his vengeance rested only on a lie. Furthermore, the pleasure of the vengeance which promises the happiness and the delivery doesn’t last in reality, that a short moment and after the vengeance: there is nothing more, the nothingness. Exactly, many people blame Sasuke for having a change of heart, and for making stupid and immature decisions.



I think that when Itachi died, the vengeance has left an emptiness in Sasuke who finds himself aimless! Thus, he looks for unconscious ways to divert him from his pain and from this emptiness left by Itachi’s death. And these ways are : To join Akatsuki, destroy Konoha, become Hokage etc… 

 

Even if Sasuke shows nothing, he hates the solitude. And it sees itself : he goes out of his solitude with the team 7, then he goes with Orochimaru and Kabuto, once alone, there is a Hebi / Taka team. Sasuke was never really alone during his adventures. 



I finished this analysis at a point near, I was not able to speak about Sasuke without speaking about his relations. I really tried but except for the vengeance, I found nothing other who is really interesting to exploit in an analysis. Then, I said to myself that it was revealing. Sasuke alone wouldn’t have been the same man. Sasuke is a very influenceable young man and this is why I can explain his personality only through his relations with Itachi, Naruto, his parents etc… Sasuke is what he is today because his path has crossed some people who have changed him, who have given him a purpose, a dream, and many other things!
 

tumblr_ns1gwdhfdL1s2kirpo1_500.gif

 


Thank you for having read this analysis,

 

 

I'm sorry but your emotions are completely blinding you from the point I was trying to make that Sasuke is a one-note character. I mean you did give a pretty well-thought out analysis of him in your opinion and it is really impressive how you related it to real life psychology. So huge huge props for that  :goodjob:

 

But as well-written as your analysis is you pretty much agreed that there's not much to him besides his thirst for vengeance worth talking about. I'm sorry but that's just it. There's nothing stopping you from keeping on loving Sasuke but you have to admit that much at least


tumblr_o2ro4zTFoE1ukmr73o1_500.gif





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