Dario

Kishimoto just says the most baffling kitten. lf someone compiled the most outrageous things he said these past few months and even before in older interviews and showed it to people without telling them where it came from they'd probably think it was the ramblings of internet trolls. But no, it's the actual opinions and justifications of one of the most successful writer in pop fiction history. Mind boggling.

What l always found funny with the Goku/Chichi parallels from NH fans is that they don't realize what they're comparing their precious pairing to. The basis of Goku/Chichi is this: when they were 14, Goku patted Chichi on the crotch because he couldn't tell the difference between a girl and a boy just by looking at people so he had to touch to check if she had balls. So after getting patted on the crotch a blushing Chichi decided they should get married, Goku thought she was talking about food and accepted and 5 years later they got engaged. 

That's it. That's the pairing. IT'S A BLATANT JOKE. Toriyama was originally a gag mangaka and most people don't know his first big success before Dragonball was a gag manga called Dr Slump (highly recommended if you can find it, it's hilarious) and in Dr Slump Toriyama actually has the honesty to admit he hates romance but his editor forces him to write pairings. So out of spite he just treats them like a joke. 

Yet all these NH geniuses have argued this inspired Kishi t. What does it say about NH? And of course let's not mention the irony of them calling NS comic relief...

l agree with Naruto not being the real main character of his own manga but l disagree about the timeline. l don't think the focus switched after the Pain arc, l think it happend far earlier than that. You've got to remember the Pain arc was really the first time in part 2 where Naruto regained some sort of agency and made some progress in his stated original goal of becoming Hokage. It was the first time in give or take 150 chapters Naruto was focused on by the narrative. Before that he came back from a two years training with zero significant improvements, he had no real influence in the first 4 arcs after the timeskip, playing second fiddle to Sakura, Shikamaru and Sasuke twice, he didn't even get a real fight, and of course ever since the end of part 1 his character had become defined by his desire to "save" Sasuke, with hardly a mention of his original ambitions let alone the early themes he embodied.

The moment l realized this manga was slowly dying if not already dead was during the "year of Sasuke" where it became abundantly clear Sasuke was never going to suffer any consequences for his actions despite Kakashi's warning and that on the contrary he was being REWARDED for his betrayal and murder attempt on Naruto with new devoted companions, new powers, plenty of fights and the narrative focus.

In the end, people talk smack about Sakura for being the worst heroine in shonen manga history and l don't disagree but we shouldn't forget Naruto himself is one of the worst if not the worst shonen hero of all time.

I would feel more satisfied if everything after chapter 698 never existed. I don't know about that "decent little story" since well...it hasn't been decent since Pein Arc. Sure everything I guess gives the illusion of being okay, but watch as it spirals down something that is just horrible.

Damage is still going. It is just that we are no longer the target.

l think it stopped being a decent little story at the end of part 1. l still have fond memories of the beginning though and mostly lament what could have been.

 

And can we please leave the negativity locked somewhere ??
 

It's bad enough hearing kitten from the SS and NH fandom but i ain't listening to that if it comes from our fandom.

Negativity? What negativity? I'm not stopping you from enjoying fanon if you like, but ignoring canon and still hoping for some NS fanservice while the pairing has been torpedoed months ago is insane. 

Do l find canon idiotic and impossible to take seriously? Believe me l do. Doesn't change the fact canon states Hinata is Narutos first love and Sakura was just a prize to win in some messed up rivalry game with Sasuke. 

Now that I think about it... Naruto mentioned Sakura, right? Do you guys know if he used "chan"? 

Why does it matter? He never loved her and she's such a non factor in his life it's the first time he gets to talk with her daughter.

l expect the worst every time and l still manage to get disappointed and disgusted.

Naruto cleaning up Sasuke's mess AGAIN. Just like he was babying Sakura everytime Sasuke was being a big meanie now he has to play father and daughter with Sarada. And it'd be cute if the context wasn't so awful. Poor Sarada. And she's absolutely nothing like Sakura personality wis, what a forced and nonsensical plot device. 

l've always found the "why can't you be happy for Naruto???" argument stupid because in order to be happy for someone you have to feel empathy for that person. Personally l feel zero empathy for Naruto because he's been portrayed so absurdly in The Last l just can't see him as a believable character anymore. Why would I be happy for someone who was pretending to pursue a girl for some messed up rivalry game and didn't even understand a desperate love confession leading to death? That's not a human being, that's some weird robot alien trying to imitate human emotions.

http://sparda3g.tumb...en-do-you-think

 

Yeah, that's true.

Honestly? l think the manga started going downhill at the end of part 1. That's when the focus shifted from Naruto to Sasuke, when Naruto started being defined by his obsession with Sasuke, when Naruto became an afterthought in his own manga.

The Pain arc was another drop in quality and the Kage summit definitely killed the series lMO, but it all started way earlier.

Kishimoto gets a lot of well deserved flack for being a terrible writer but l think most people give him a free pass as an artist. Seriously this pic is drawn terribly. l already talked about the little girl, but Hinata and Naruto also look awful, that iPad thing and other objects look deformed and the coloring is at the same time garish and drab.

He's not just a terrible writer, he's a painfully mediocre artist too.

Himawari looks like one of these awful "how to draw manga" stock characters.

l agree with those who're saying Obito was a poor parallel to Naruto. Actually he highlighted one of the biggest issues l had with the manga: l never bought the Uchihas as victims of oppression.

One of the main things l liked about Naruto and later Gaara was the sheer injustice of their situation and that made me want to see them rise above it. l didn't care much for the "loser" part of Naruto's characterization, actually l found it to be detrimental. lt's fine to portray your characters as untalented and lacking in innate privilege, but l feel like showing them as incompetent failures cheapens their worth as heroes. A good example of this trope done right is Midoriya from BNHA: he has no natural advantages but is smart, hard working and his resolve makes up for his bad luck, so he's never shown in a humiliating light.

Coming back to Obito, the only significant part of his characterization outside of his crazy crush on Rin was his loser status, and l'm sorry but l don't care about that. The so called discrimination against Uchihas is never shown affecting him, like it's never shown affecting any other member of the clan. On the contrary, the narrative is full of scenes showing Uchihas being respected, admired and even beloved by other Konoha citizens, including of course our "hero" and "heroine". The Uchihas are always shown belonging, there's nothing like the character of Mizuki or that heartbreaking scene of Gaara trying to offer some medicine to a kid he accidentally hurt only to be rejected brutally.

Once again Kishimoto tells us something (the Uchihas were victims of prejudice and discriminated against) and shows us the complete opposite. Another failure in a very long list.

l feel like some fans are being hypocritical when they claim we shouldn't blame Sakura because she's a fictional character but focus on Kishimoto instead. When you say "l love her so much she's a queen" or whatever you're not actually praising Kishimoto, you're treating Sakura as if she was real. Likewise when you get pissed at people who bash Sakura you're separating her from her creator, she has become an independant entity. Why would you blame antis for doing the same only in the opposite way? Either it's all Kishimoto's work and we coldly analyze his writing process or we can interpret these characters as real persons and get a bit emotional with them, which is the basis of being a shipper in the first place. Cherry picking one or the other is dishonest.

Is emotion illogical?
Since naruto is a dramatic shonen battle manga which the character drive by emotion, is it okay if it's become illogical manga?
Like, to love you don't need reason, since it just happen.

It's just a copout for bad writers who're too incompetent to create relatable relationships.

l understand the logic behind blaming Sakura, because even if Sasuke is a horrible person, it's Sakura who enabled him to treat her like complete trash. lt's not Sasuke who followed her around obsessively, it's her who kept coming back for more and never confronted him about his bull. Sasuke always made it very clear what he thought of her, he tried to kill her and even showed it to her in a genjustu, yet she still ran back for more. l can't feel sorry for her because she could have made it stop anytime. Like someone else said, she made her bed now she has to sleep in it. Alone.