9 replies to this topic

[Hyuga Sage]

If anyone asks why this is being posted so late after Neji's death, well, it's because I re read the Kidomaru VS Neji fight some time ago and realized how much BETTER it would have been for him to just die BACK THEN.

 

Neji got killed by a weak attack that he should be able to deal with, that makes his death look contrived and forced and makes Neji look weak. 

He died from a wooden needle, that Naruto could easily have tanked

Heck in Part 1, GENIN Neji survived worse from Kidomaru

 

The attack was stated to be too fast, yet somehow Hinata is casually able to walk in front of it, Neji is able to jump in from no where, yet they can't use air palm or rotation to stop?  

 

Neji also didn't get any development at all in part two and the first panel he appears in after a long time, he dies. This means Kishimoto only pulled Neji out of nowhere to kill him and use him as a plot device/fodder. The problem here is it is super obvious and that shouldn't be the case. 

 

Also when you say "people asked for deaths", I never asked for more deaths because I'm smart and know that killing undeveloped characters means nothing to the readers.

 

he died meaninglessly to a random attack in the same chapter he just showed up. since he didn't get any development for he most of part 2, to the  point when he was dying Kishi had to show CHUNNIN EXAM moments of Neji , because he was never around in part 2! How much more obvious can it get that Neji was undeveloped, so much so that Kishi had to use panels from 400 chapters ago. 

 

It was a very weak death, no meaning at all. It was completely meaningless to me.

 

Why kill off Neji now, when he contributed absolutely nothing to the plot after the time that he should have died, when he was facing off against Kidomaru? That would have been the perfect death scene for him. Instead, here Neji is, dying off like a fly after being utterly minuscule to the storyline since he was saved by Kishimoto's editors.

 

Yes, this is war. And people are just supposed to die, without meaning or reason. But that doesn't mean that Naruto ceases to be a story with events that have impact to them.

 

If I put myself in Naruto's shoes, then maybe there would be some meaning. But as a reader of a story, it was such a weak death because he was just reintroduced into the story to die. 

 

It's not the manner of death that I'm complaining about; I don't care if he died not being able to tank the spike. It's the fact that I can put any other fodder character in that exact position (Kiba and Shino come to mind) and that would produce the exact same effect.

 

As a character, Neji deserved better. That's why I believe him dying in Part 1 had more meaning. It was HIS death, and his death alone. 

 

In fact, Kishi could have added the bird scene, the sign disappearing, and his internal monologue about freedom & his father right after the Kidoumaru battle, and it would have been more fitting.

 

It was clearly meant to have impact, but it didn't at all. Which is why I find the claims about this war now being "realistic" incredibly stupid. That didn't cement a single thing about it. He just died, that's it. Yet it was obviously supposed to have impact, but after his first "death"...eh.  

 

at least kishi could have give 1-3 chapters to hype more the hyuugas then build up slowly the sacrifice of neji , for example neji could have died after an exhausting fight reflecting a bijuudama using some huge ass rotation the size of a bijuu which only he can reflect and if he doesn't the alliance is dead. Wouldn't this show his "genius" to us?

 

The way he died was random,anticlimactic and fodders and really bad for his char, im not against deaths if they are made properly with death speeches,drama and alot of hype , this is a shounen not a seinen.

Let's look at some GOOD deaths.... they all have two things in common

 

Zabuza: Major fight and flashbacks before death

Itachi: Major fight and flashbacks before death

Jiriaya: Major fight and flashbacks before death

Deidara: Major fight and flashbacks before death

Kimimaru: Major fight and flashbacks before death

Kisame: Major fight and flashbacks before death

 

I can think of AT LEAST THREE scenarios when Neji could have been used that would have helped in improving his character,

 

1)Kage summit: Neji could have gone with Naruto to meet Ay, you know, the ****ING leader of the country that turned his life to hell! It ****ing baffles me that Kishimoto decided to have Yamato reference the whole Hyuga-Cloud situation and not a Hyuga themselves. What a load of ****ing bullsh**.

 

2)VS Juubi: When Kakashi showed up to protect Naruto from Obito, Neji should have been the one to tag along with him rather than Gai. Why? Because he was going to ****ING die soon so He should have been given a major fight JUST like Nagato, Jiraiya etc.......... right? Oh wait, Kishimoto pulled that death out of his ass.....

 

3)Why not give him some time fighting in the war? Have him fight some edos other than ****ing zetsu *****es. Have him fight someone like Pakura, the swordsmen of the mist, Gari, Toroi, or why not have him fight Deidara rather than having deidara sit on his ass the whole time? Or have Neji fight Kakuzu rather than having Kakuzu get owned by two ****INF FODDERS. WHY ****ING RESSURECT SHINOBI IF YOU'RE NOT GONNA USE THEM?!? There were SO many unused edos that were left unused in this war that could have been used to fight Neji. Or better yet, why not have him face off against his ****ING DEAD FATHER with Hinata to show how the main and side are now one?    Why have CHOJI be the one to finish him?

 

I don't understand why he had to die so suddenly. I mean, sure the whole thing was kind of touching to me because he's one of my favorite characters but I felt as though he died for no ****ing reason.  

 

I just think it's horrible that Kishi tried to bridge part 1 Neji and part 2 Neji yet it just didn't work because Kishi hasn't properly written Neji as a character for it to work! We all KNOW this deep down! 

 

What has Neji shown the reader to validate his "genius" status before this chapter?! This is like if Samui popped up next chapter, died, then started preaching to Naruto how he has to save everyone while Bee constantly stated "But but but...Samui's has the most potential in Kumo..."

but many people including myself have been pretty pissed at Kishi on how he started strong with Neji and the Hyuuga in the beginning of Naruto and turn him into possible fodder now....

 

this death would have been immensely better if Kishimoto had actually given some panel time to Neji and the other rookies after the timeskip. It would have been that much more impactful. But, Kishimoto kinda just put all the Konoha Rookies on the back burner for part II and gave them little to no development. They specifically were the reasons I started watching the anime and eventually got started reading the manga. Shino, Kiba, Lee, Neji, Choji, Shikamaru, Sasuke (before he went emo), and Ino. These characters were AWESOME. And aside from Shikamaru's team, none of them got any real development in the second half of the manga, and I've stopped caring about them as a reader. And that's sad.

 

I believe it is CHEAP for Kishi to try to convey a theme he set in part 1 and shown no concurrence with in part 2. In part 1, it was established that Neji is a genius. HOW THE HELL HAS NEJI BEEN ABLE TO DISPLAY THAT HE IS SUCH A BADASS/GENIUS IN PART 2?!?!? 

 

He hasn't. We're asked to suspend belief and imagine Neji has always been this genius since part 1.

 

I've always felt like Kishi kept Hinata weak in part 2 to make Neji seem like a "genius".  it seems like, because Neji was neglected by Kishi, he began to fall behind in power level as opposed to the other geniuses, Sasuke & Gaara, so rather than giving Neji some legit power boosts, he makes Hinata seem weaker than Part 1 Neji, and because Hinata is the only Hyuga character aside from neji, we compare the two, and it makes it seem like Neji is actually something special. 

So I basically think Kishi simply kept Hinata weak to make Neji seems strong, and I feel like that's kinda a cheap thing to do.

 

Neji was clearly used as a plot device...an obvious, rushed plot device and that's why readers such as myself hated the death. If you're going to randomly kill Neji, then just kill him! Trying to make Neji seem like such an important figure to Naruto now is just stupid...****ING STUPID. Naruto & Neji NEVER had this sort of bond that Kishimoto so DESPERATELY tried to show in 614. No, the only person he has this sort of relation with was Sasuke, and maybe Gaara. It's even worse when you realize that there has been multiple opportunities for Neji to discuss with Naruto about how much he's "saved him" and how he's "similar to Sasuke". Ex: When the rookies confronted Naruto, Neji could have said something to Naruto like what Gaara said to him @ the land of iron; You know, talk about how Naruto is jesus n' kitten and how he's the only one who can make people see the light.

 

When the alliance showed up in all its greatness. Neji wasn't even on a panel. The times we did see him he was getting completely overwhelmed and his "genius" wasn't being portrayed at all. More like mocked and fodderized. Then suddenly he drops from the sky in the last chapter only to die a few pages later. It would have been nice if he had at the very least died in the next chapter after doing a few cool things this round. Whatever the reason, It made me laugh and say wtf?

 

And it's not like his actual death was handled any better. Hinata refers his dying words. guess what? I'd MUCH rather have some legit well done death flashbacks like ALL THE OTHER half-decent deaths had. We get Lee crying, and then Gai tells him to man up. ****. YOU. MIGHT. GAI.  You stupid piece of kitten. You'd never say something like that if that was Lee.....We were all expecting Gai to at least show some sadness, but NOTHING. And then what? 3 panels of Lee thinking about a conversation they had about Neji and him being rivals? Like I said about Kishimoto trying to FORCE a bond between Neji & Naruto that DOESN'T EXIST, he's trying to FORCE a RIVALRY between Lee and Neji that hasn't been brought up in the past 450+ chapters.

Edited by Hyuga Sage, 05 August 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[sushi.]

I know I've seen this post before on another forum. Are you the same person?

 

Anyway I somewhat agree. I liked the message that he was now free and understood his father's actions.

 

Besides that, I feeI like his death was a plot device and for Hinata's development. I did not like the way he died, it was too easy. Jumping in front of a stick to protect Hinata and Naruto. I did not like that Hinata placed herself to face Naruto instead of the deadly sticks either, not a good move.

Edited by sushi., 05 August 2013 - 04:47 PM.

[Hyuga Sage]

I know I've seen this post before on another forum. Are you the same person?

 

 

Well, Yeah, I am.

[Hanabi]

Heck in Part 1, GENIN Neji survived worse from Kidomaru

 

And it's not like his actual death was handled any better. Hinata refers his dying words. guess what? I'd MUCH rather have some legit well done death flashbacks like ALL THE OTHER half-decent deaths had. We get Lee crying, and then Gai tells him to man up. ****. YOU. MIGHT. GAI.  You stupid piece of kitten. You'd never say something like that if that was Lee.....We were all expecting Gai to at least show some sadness, but NOTHING.

 

 

Rofl totally recognized this post from MF. It's hilarious how true your post is (￣▽￣)

 

To be fair genin Neji recovered because of Tsunade's expertise, but even then he could manage to survive on his own for a little while until help arrives, but the jounin neji died within a few moments.. (￣Д￣）

 

And Gai was clearly devastated when lee was injured in part I.. but it's that team formula from naruto manga again.. there's always a student that the teacher favors over..

Edited by Hanabi, 05 August 2013 - 05:29 PM.

[Sojobo]

I found there was not enough emotion in his death.

Gaara's death was so much more better.

 

I thought that Neji was the Hyuuga Clan's futur, but I was wrong. 

From the beginning, Hinata was the character who was suppose to become the leader of Hyuuga clan. I you look carefully, she makes a better ninja than Neji, even if her cousin was a genious, and not her. Hinata was supposed to be stronger and stronger by time, and today, finally, Neji has to die to finish her developpement.

Yes, his death was all for Hinata's developpement, nothing more. 

 

I found it sad, cause to me, Neji was a better Hyuuga, and... a better character with better background and developpement until war.

I think that Kishimoto really destroyed Neji's character by sacrifising him like this. He died without showing anything great in the manga.

He died without fighting Lee, without showing some new jutsus.

 

But yeah, it's Kishimoto's writing. I don't understand how Hyuuga Clan didn't have any importance in the story?

They have one of the three Dojutsus, and yet... Kishimoto doesn't use this for making the Hyuuga story more interesting.

Hinata is now the only hope to get some interesting developpement for Hyuuga Clan, but sadly, this character only exist for Naruto and her own lovestory...

Edited by Sojobo, 05 August 2013 - 05:55 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I think i'm the only one, for me Neji's death never served for Hinata's development, that was for Naruto, neji's speech and words were directly towards him, his death opened an scenario were Hinata went OOC and give that speech, that's not development seeing that Neji's words didnt affected Hinata, (Hinata didnt thanked Neji and her thoughts were on Naruto) the ones who got affect by his death were, Naruto, Lee and the rest of his team (TenTen and Gai).

 

Even when Neji showed on that chapter, Hinata once again give the credtis to Naruto, i beleive that the problem with Hinata is her focus and how she leechs development from Naruto, would be a good character if she had things on her own, but she's always centered on Naruto like a satellite, but she getting development recently and seems that she accepted the possibility of friendzone.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 August 2013 - 06:23 PM.

[Phantom_999]

This sentiment I agree with. Neji had potential. He was an interesting character, THEN he got trashed for no reason. His death  developed Hinata? NO, apparently all she need to do to be competent at something is to be there for her, "Naruto-kun".  Not bashing here or undermining her development but that scene just left a sour taste in my mouth because she's STILL TOO CLINGY to Naruto. Not saying this for pairing reasons but as a character, she doesn't have much depth and never will until she stops treating Naruto as her universe. And Neji's death was supposed to "change this" apparently. It just is more of a slap to the face for his fans. He's supposed to make Hinata be less simple minded but no, not even his death changed that. That was SO WELL handled. *CLAP, CLAP, CLAP,*   And Agreed with Gai also. He had no right to be saying Lee should stop crying and focus when he would be bawling like a baby if Lee was killed. But calling him a piece of S*** is  not justified, and could be considered bashing. Just pointing this out because bashing characters is not tolerated here.

Edited by Phantom_999, 05 August 2013 - 08:05 PM.

[Nate River]

If anyone asks why this is being posted so late after Neji's death, well, it's because I re read the Kidomaru VS Neji fight some time ago and realized how much BETTER it would have been for him to just die BACK THEN.
 
Neji got killed by a weak attack that he should be able to deal with, that makes his death look contrived and forced and makes Neji look weak. 
He died from a wooden needle, that Naruto could easily have tanked
Heck in Part 1, GENIN Neji survived worse from Kidomaru
 
The attack was stated to be too fast, yet somehow Hinata is casually able to walk in front of it, Neji is able to jump in from no where, yet they can't use air palm or rotation to stop?  
 
Neji also didn't get any development at all in part two and the first panel he appears in after a long time, he dies. This means Kishimoto only pulled Neji out of nowhere to kill him and use him as a plot device/fodder. The problem here is it is super obvious and that shouldn't be the case. 
 
Also when you say "people asked for deaths", I never asked for more deaths because I'm smart and know that killing undeveloped characters means nothing to the readers.
 
he died meaninglessly to a random attack in the same chapter he just showed up. since he didn't get any development for he most of part 2, to the  point when he was dying Kishi had to show CHUNNIN EXAM moments of Neji , because he was never around in part 2! How much more obvious can it get that Neji was undeveloped, so much so that Kishi had to use panels from 400 chapters ago.

I agree with your overall point that it was horrible, but my reasons differ.

His death was not meaningless. It was supposed to drive home Obito's point. Of course, the manga just slides right by the fact that there may not be a less credible person available to make it. I've posted on that problem elsewhere, so I won't spend much time with it. It's just that to accept Obito's path you're kind of forced to trust him. You know, the guy that killed his friend.

It also set up Naruto refutation of that point, which was equally as bad. As has also been explain in other threads, Hinata shouldn't have to drive home the message Neji just stated and had been repeated before in the story. Naruto's reaction to the whole thing was terribly disappointing.

His death had a point, but one of them had been made before and the other well...like I said...Naruto's really going to hear it from THAT guy? Obito's trail of bodies should have been sufficient.

The other reason is Tsunade, Pain, and Gaara. All three were contrived resurrection/near-resurrections. Gaara used a disposable character who was just introduced and happen to know that technique. I still site Pain mass resurrection as the worst moment in the story, and Tsuande's save may be more contrived that both of those combined as it involved a minor character cheating Edo Tensei long enough to give her a power boost that gave her enough energy to stay alive until she is discovered by one of the few people who can do something about her problem.

After all that Neji has to bite it the way he did? Whatever. When Tsunade was being put back together I said if I were Neji I would be throwing a cosmic hissy fit over that,

I don't think his death was meant to make the war more real. I think that was the broader purpose of Edo Tensei and stating the huge number of deaths (50% of the army and 0% of established good guys! What are the odds!) at the end of day one. As an aside, I think that tends to be a good example of why telling instead of showing is considered a weakness in writing. It gave names and faces to the opposition. Most of them were still slight-upgraded mooks, but it was superior to a mass of white-zetsu's.

As far as it's emotion impact, I think it was okay. It would be better if he spent more time developing Neji the person. The Hyuuga story generally isn't that important. It's a back drop to minor characters, and it's just not important to the overall story. If developing Neji means spending time with it, so be it. But there back story really didn't need more focus.

[James S Cassidy]

I feel like maybe Neji's death would have been better or more meaningful if Naruto didn't just breakdown and willing to give up to give Hinata this weird out of place moment that has no meaning down the road. It would have been better if he got pissed and tried to deal with Obito alone, letting his anger get to him and nearly dying from it. So of like a blood rage.

The way it was all written really felt like all it was doing was giving the NH fans to ooh and aww over. Fan service so to speak. Some will disagree with me, but I really feel like that is all the meaning the scene had. Sure, Lee got upset, but that was more comedy than an actual emotional hit.

(I do want to emphasis that it wasn't because Hinata did it, but the moment itself that was just so awkward. Hell, even if Sakura would have done it it would have felt weird.)

I feel Neji's death was needed, but was executed poorly.




 

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I agree with your overall point that it was horrible, but my reasons differ.

His death was not meaningless. It was supposed to drive home Obito's point. Of course, the manga just slides right by the fact that there may not be a less credible person available to make it. I've posted on that problem elsewhere, so I won't spend much time with it. It's just that to accept Obito's path you're kind of forced to trust him. You know, the guy that killed his friend.

It also set up Naruto refutation of that point, which was equally as bad. As has also been explain in other threads, Hinata shouldn't have to drive home the message Neji just stated and had been repeated before in the story. Naruto's reaction to the whole thing was terribly disappointing.

His death had a point, but one of them had been made before and the other well...like I said...Naruto's really going to hear it from THAT guy? Obito's trail of bodies should have been sufficient.

The other reason is Tsunade, Pain, and Gaara. All three were contrived resurrection/near-resurrections. Gaara used a disposable character who was just introduced and happen to know that technique. I still site Pain mass resurrection as the worst moment in the story, and Tsuande's save may be more contrived that both of those combined as it involved a minor character cheating Edo Tensei long enough to give her a power boost that gave her enough energy to stay alive until she is discovered by one of the few people who can do something about her problem.

After all that Neji has to bite it the way he did? Whatever. When Tsunade was being put back together I said if I were Neji I would be throwing a cosmic hissy fit over that,

I don't think his death was meant to make the war more real. I think that was the broader purpose of Edo Tensei and stating the huge number of deaths (50% of the army and 0% of established good guys! What are the odds!) at the end of day one. As an aside, I think that tends to be a good example of why telling instead of showing is considered a weakness in writing. It gave names and faces to the opposition. Most of them were still slight-upgraded mooks, but it was superior to a mass of white-zetsu's.

As far as it's emotion impact, I think it was okay. It would be better if he spent more time developing Neji the person. The Hyuuga story generally isn't that important. It's a back drop to minor characters, and it's just not important to the overall story. If developing Neji means spending time with it, so be it. But there back story really didn't need more focus.

Yep me too, seeing Naruto wavering after previously telling Obito he would not give up because a lot of people died for him to succeed, that proved me that Kishi did bad writing to give development to Hinata and a bit of fanservice.

 

For Hinata it was the worse, seemed that she's a very confident girl when close to Naruto but when she's far we have her wavering in front of that bijuu dama when Sakura was healing Naruto.