77 replies to this topic

[VoodooFX]

Funny thing is, even after two years, there are still people who believe that the whole ch699/700 and everything that came after, is Kishi trolling us.

That he's purposely (mis)leading us to believe that this version is reality, all while carefully placing hints throughout, that this is nothing but a genjutsu cast on everyone.

And that we're all blind if we can't see the grander picture.

 

While I found such notion interesting at the time, I highly doubt that they would drag it on for two years with no signs of stopping.

 

I personally don't think the franchise needs a reboot, not now, not ever. it should just end already, and let the people move on.

[tricksie]

Funny thing is, even after two years, there are still people who believe that the whole ch699/700 and everything that came after, is Kishi trolling us.

That he's purposely (mis)leading us to believe that this version is reality, all while carefully placing hints throughout, that this is nothing but a genjutsu cast on everyone.

And that we're all blind if we can't see the grander picture.

 

While I found such notion interesting at the time, I highly doubt that they would drag it on for two years with no signs of stopping.

 

I personally don't think the franchise needs a reboot, not now, not ever. it should just end already, and let the people move on.

 

You know...I don't think he's trolling us or it's some sort of long con. I think he's done with the series. 

 

BUT if they wanted to reboot the series, then having a genjutsu over the village is EASY to believe. It would be a perfect place to start.

 

It's almost like saying 'I'm ending it here! I'm done. Finished.... You know, that is unless I feel like starting it up again.... But nope! I'm ending it here! Done! Finished!'

 

They've left an easy way to reboot the series if they ever wanted to.

[T XD]

 

You know...I don't think he's trolling us or it's some sort of long con. I think he's done with the series. 

 

BUT if they wanted to reboot the series, then having a genjutsu over the village is EASY to believe. It would be a perfect place to start.

 

It's almost like saying 'I'm ending it here! I'm done. Finished.... You know, that is unless I feel like starting it up again.... But nope! I'm ending it here! Done! Finished!'

 

They've left an easy way to reboot the series if they ever wanted to.

Bolded : It is indeed  a very easy way to reboot the series.

[Phantom_999]

This may be cynical for me to say, but I think the series' only redemption is to DIE OFF

[T XD]

This may be cynical for me to say, but I think the series' only redemption is to DIE OFF

This series has to die completely. There's nothing interesting from it anymore. It's like they're just continuing with it for the sake of the fame the series once had.

 

If anyone else want to reboot it later in the future, the series has to die.

Edited by T XD, 29 October 2016 - 04:50 PM.

[VoodooFX]

This series has to die completely. There's nothing interesting from it anymore. It's like they're just continuing with it for the sake of the fame the series once had.

 

If anyone else want to reboot it later in the future, the series has to die.

 

Yeah, it's really sad, that it has come this far, because even today I love the old Naruto, seeing the screencaps of the latest fillers really takes me back to days I found the series so special, days when he was just a lonely kid, trying his best to prove himself and rise above the odds stacked against him.

 

Plus there is also the fact that every time I look at my son, he reminds me of this little hyper-kinetic, loudmouthed knucklehead, that Naruto used to be.

Edited by VoodooFX, 29 October 2016 - 09:07 PM.

[Nar123]

It's not the same and it won't be the same, if reboot happens.

This series' main soul is the struggle of the underdog to achieve triumph. With all the odds that he has to face, we were promised an inspiring conclusion (backed with many foreshadowing events). Did we actually get that in the end? No.

Surpassing the older generation, ending the cycle of hatred, hard work can achieve more than talents/gifts... and many other themes get tossed out of the window in the end. All of these are just to make nH and SS canon so they can continue with Boruto series.

 

And if someone mentioned about recent interview where Kishi / his assistant said Boruto was *not* the initial plan. ha ha... let me tell you a dirty little secret in business industry folks: once something went south, it's all fingers pointing game.

 

If Boruto is a success, I can assure you that even Kishi will claim that it was his plan all along and he'll take whatever credits he can take. Likewise with the current author (Ikemoto or whatever).

 

I'm not sure whether the interview is genuine or not, but here's my take: the fact that they don't claim this to be the initial plan, it is giving a strong message that they don't want to own it. It's a hot mess, and they don't want their names on it.

 

Imagine you're an established author (Kishi) and suddenly your name is tagged with something that's not successful. You definitely want to stay away. Likewise, imagine if you're a fresh blood and about to start your big career journey as an author (Ikemoto), and you jolly knew down the road, the series you're working on is going downward spiral of failure, you'll react about the same as the interview mentioned above.

 

Nonetheless, don't base your judgement based on interview. If you live in Japan, you'll know enough whatever publicly said may not be 100% true to what happened behind the closed door. Google-up "honne tatemae", and you'll get what I meant.

 

The original Naruto series is built upon the spirit of hard work, never give up, surpassing the older generation and other similar themes. It's all about fighting off with your own feet. That's why it gets so popular. However, the ending betrayed every bits of that spirit. And you can't get the same success again. Ever.

 

Hinata or Sakura is timid, lame and weak in front of their significant other. That's not how you depicted the spirit of hard work with solid relationship.

 

Even if you reboot the series. It will not be the same. It will never be the same.

 

To share with you, one of my favorite quote by T. Roosevelt:

 

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." (Roosevelt, 1910 --search up for 'the man in the arena' for the full transcript.

 

Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura or Hinata depicted by the ending, does not embody such spirit. And neither will any form of reboots in the future (if any).

 

This post is amazing  

 

 kudos to you!

[Yyubie]

Like i said , the positive moral message is toss out of the window. Naruto never surpass his predecessor , is he better than the previous Hokage ?? and in the end it was never proved if hard work can surpass a genius because Naruto never shown won against Sasuke ... "Equal" is all Naruto will get. Sakura revert back to her 12 years old fan girl and lived a misery as poor housewife, even her master Tsunade moved on from Dan to Jiraya, and i think all 3 legendary Sannin should automatically have better life especially a Doctor even in reality that profession should have BIG salary but Sakura .... is in big DEBT lol even her house is still ... i'm speechless. Hinata in the end fail her clan and her family, she failed to proved to her father to become strong leader, running away from her responsibility and choose to be a housewife , scarf is more important than her own little sister, holding Naruto hand is all that matter atop Neji's corpses ...

 

 

I wish someone do that to whoever responsible to this ... atrocity.

[T XD]

@ Yyubie : Editors, Shueisha and Studio Pierrot are responsible, so there will be a lot of bum pain

Edited by T XD, 08 November 2016 - 10:06 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Well take into consideration HOW MANY FANS they've pissed off.   And bear in mind the Japanese fan base will only get to them FIRST

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

 

You know...I don't think he's trolling us or it's some sort of long con. I think he's done with the series. 

 

BUT if they wanted to reboot the series, then having a genjutsu over the village is EASY to believe. It would be a perfect place to start.

 

It's almost like saying 'I'm ending it here! I'm done. Finished.... You know, that is unless I feel like starting it up again.... But nope! I'm ending it here! Done! Finished!'

 

They've left an easy way to reboot the series if they ever wanted to.

Sadly, even if they did a reboot with the "it was all just a genjutsu" reasoning, the franchise name will forever be saddled with the huge amounts of baggage it hefted upon itself because of biased studios and editors taking horrible gambles based on a loud minority fan base that completely backfired on them and it would be easily seen through by the logical fan base that it's just a desperate attempt to win them back after they were driven away by those editors/studios who cared more about the money.

As I keep saying, if they really want to win back the fans that they knowingly alienated with their choices, then they will have to take big steps to do so; go on camera, online, etc. and make public apologies, admitting and explaining what truly went on behind the scenes that lead to the franchise's decay and to acknowledge the huge mistakes they made that lead to it, to publicly denounce the "canon" - the manga ending, The Last, the Boruto movie/manga, etc. and anything else attached to them - and admit how hypocritical it is and whatnot, Then they would have to actually put in the work and development to retcon past chapters to better develop things the way they were going beforehand before even starting on the future reboot and then continue with that development.

[Gravenimage]

A reboot of the series where Naruto and Sakura might get together hmm...No forget it that will never happen Over Shueisha and Pierot's dead body. And if by some miracle if does happen I don't want to hear the NH fandom whining saying" its NOT canon it doesn't count NH is canon deal with it". I will never swallow my pride for them. 

[Gravenimage]

This series has to die completely. There's nothing interesting from it anymore. It's like they're just continuing with it for the sake of the fame the series once had.

 

If anyone else want to reboot it later in the future, the series has to die.

 

Naruto isn't the the only series that has been continuing after the manga has officially ended DBZ being the biggest example. That manga ended YEARS ago and they're still coming up with spin offs and other media like movies and video games etc. Its called" milking the cow" until its dry. Kingdom Hearts is another example they're still coming up with other games before releasing part 3. But why would they do this? Its all about the money as long as fans demands and keep throwing them money they will continue with it. 

[VoodooFX]

...

As I keep saying, if they really want to win back the fans that they knowingly alienated with their choices, then they will have to take big steps to do so; go on camera, online, etc. and make public apologies, admitting and explaining what truly went on behind the scenes that lead to the franchise's decay and to acknowledge the huge mistakes they made that lead to it, to publicly denounce the "canon" - the manga ending, The Last, the Boruto movie/manga, etc. and anything else attached to them - and admit how hypocritical it is and whatnot, Then they would have to actually put in the work and development to retcon past chapters to better develop things the way they were going beforehand before even starting on the future reboot and then continue with that development.

 

Yeah, so you've just listed every single thing that's never going to happen :)

Doubt any of them feel any need to apologize, either.

 

I also think they were half expecting that most of the fans wouldn't stick around after ending, no matter the outcome, so they've made a calculated call with the ending and ran with it. They didn't have to be great mathematicians to figure out that NH + SS were a much bigger and louder base than us.

 

Somewhere along the way they've then decided to press on with a lazy spin-off, just to milk the cow dry, then bury it until everyone forgets it.

 

There's obviously something very wrong within the current Japanese Manga business, either it's the increasing influence from the west, with their ever growing hunger for $$$ or it's just current state of the Japanese culture in general - I hear that Bleach ended almost identically to Naruto, with pairings and the offspring revealed at the very end. And while the uproar was far less present than with Naruto, probably due to Bleach's diminished popularity and kind of better character interaction, I hear it was present nonetheless.

[Namaenash]

 

I also think they were half expecting that most of the fans wouldn't stick around after ending, no matter the outcome, so they've made a calculated call with the ending and ran with it. They didn't have to be great mathematicians to figure out that NH + SS were a much bigger and louder base than us.

 

 

I disagree though. I'd like to think they are expecting more sales with Boruto series, that's why the publisher dared themselves to make extreme turns (kill NS, establish NH+SS, capture the new audience based on NH+SS).

 

If you recalled, a few months before the manga ended, there was a poster drawn by Kishi to promote the so-called "New Era" project. Anyone remember?

 

Most likely by then the decision of the story has already been long established. I wouldn't be surprised that by the time that poster appeared, The Last and Boruto the movie has already in pre-production (I'm quite sure Boruto The Movie is already completed when The Last aired, since the end of The Last, we had a promotion of Boruto Movie "coming soon"). Not to mention other media, such as games, which takes a lot of time to produce.

 

I've discussed a lot about the principle of vital few (http://www.narusaku....=14963&p=917316) , so, I won't repeat it again here.

 

There's really no hard facts saying that NH+SS were a much bigger fanbase. Seriously, no one knows exactly. Not even the publishers it seems...  and it really doesn't matter anymore at this point, because everybody knows they turned out to be the *least* contributing fanbase to the bottom line. Boruto series is built on top of NH+SS as foundation. Last time I checked, their first week manga volume sales is not even 20% of "normal" Naruto series first week sales figure before the last volume. These are facts. It's out there in the internet, you just need to search the information, and piece together the puzzle.

 

Would they make a better profit if they continue with the plot consistently and make an open ending on pairings end? Yes, I would think so. At least it won't erase 80% of their current sales (which is the current state with Boruto series ).

 

Would a franchise reboot fix this problem? No, I don't think it will. It's a one way ticket, and unfortunately they've made the wrong bet. Either way it's going down, but the decision to make NH+SS canon only accelerates that decline... sadly. Not only they are having difficulties to capture new audience, they've also wiped out a hypothetical 80% of their sales, prior to the new direction.

 

Everybody knows manga industry has been declining since long time ago. I'm not sure about you guys, but I'm old enough to follow the trends over the years... ha ha... anyways, some of the articles that I saved in my favorite folder (yes, these are old, but if you have been following, the industry is still declining).

 

http://usatoday30.us...-18-manga_N.htm

 

http://io9.gizmodo.c...ould-get-better

 

http://www.bloomberg...inancial-advice

 

Key takeaways from these articles:

- Manga sales peaked in 1995, at the end of the Dragon Ball saga. It never came to the same level since.

- Younger readers downloading digital content are mostly female (about 70% of it in Japan in 2007). The most popular story? boys love (yaoi).

- Many believed that the new home for Manga industry is in US (population decline in Japan is slowly draining the pool of potential readers for manga, which is young people / teenager). We all know how it went... To sum it up, the manga sales in US peaked in 2007, where it hit $210 million. In 2014, it went to $75 million.

 

So, you can conclude it yourself, why Naruto series took such directions, and throw away all the promises it held in its earlier days.

[hinataiscreepy]

Hence why Kishimoto and his team watched the videos of the american youtubers...

 

However, the issue is that people who were Narusaku who tried to defend Kishi's original plans were very likely silenced by the amount of dislikes of the sawyermage subscribers that ranks your video at the bottom of the hit search when it comes reviews and opinion videos. There were videos of Narusaku moments with a  lot of likes so I don't think the number of narusaku fans were that inferior.

 

I think Kishimoto later admitted that there was an actual divide. You can tell from a marketing perspective how they are trying to bring us back in by changing the ending with NUNS4 by making it less ship oriented or making Naruto and sakura interact like they used to in the anime.

[Bail o' Lies]

Hence why Kishimoto and his team watched the videos of the american youtubers...

 

However, the issue is that people who were Narusaku who tried to defend Kishi's original plans were very likely silenced by the amount of dislikes of the sawyermage subscribers that ranks your video at the bottom of the hit search when it comes reviews and opinion videos. There were videos of Narusaku moments with a  lot of likes so I don't think the number of narusaku fans were that inferior.

 

I think Kishimoto later admitted that there was an actual divide. You can tell from a marketing perspective how they are trying to bring us back in by changing the ending with NUNS4 by making it less ship oriented or making Naruto and sakura interact like they used to in the anime.

They were, even if that wasn't the case and NS fans weren't a majority of the fanbase. A majority of the fanbase care more about the story and the characters (which means NS SK and SNS leaning) then they care about the nH pairing.

 

Now the reason why they focused on those youtube videos it this. They did know that the Japanese fans would not like the ending. It why they advertise the last as the last adventure of team 7 with lots of Kakashi and Sasuke, and it would wrap it up with confirming NS. This is because they knew the Japanese fans did not care about nH, but they didn't care about the Japanese fanbase's desires.

 

 

Yeah, so you've just listed every single thing that's never going to happen :)

Doubt any of them feel any need to apologize, either.

 

I also think they were half expecting that most of the fans wouldn't stick around after ending, no matter the outcome, so they've made a calculated call with the ending and ran with it. They didn't have to be great mathematicians to figure out that NH + SS were a much bigger and louder base than us.

 

Somewhere along the way they've then decided to press on with a lazy spin-off, just to milk the cow dry, then bury it until everyone forgets it.

 

There's obviously something very wrong within the current Japanese Manga business, either it's the increasing influence from the west, with their ever growing hunger for $$$ or it's just current state of the Japanese culture in general - I hear that Bleach ended almost identically to Naruto, with pairings and the offspring revealed at the very end. And while the uproar was far less present than with Naruto, probably due to Bleach's diminished popularity and kind of better character interaction, I hear it was present nonetheless.

Voodoo is right about them abandoning but only the Japanese fanbase.  Remember look every time Naruto success is brought up what is it they say?. It's Shueisha big international seller, One Piece is the big seller in Japan, but Naruto is what brings in the cash everywhere else. So they want to figure out what the international fans liked, all they saw was nH fans, and figured that's what their foreign market was and what it wanted. Because they cared about the foreign market not the nation one, and thought by going full force appealing to them would give them all they money they would possibly want. Which wasn't the case and now they are at where they are at because of that mistake.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 04 December 2016 - 01:46 AM.

[Young Kubrick]

Maybe if they change creative teams they might be able to. I know it's not exactly common for manga to change writers/artists as it is in Western comics but the series does need new ideas instead of the same song and dance

[Gravenimage]

I will feel better if Kishimoto admits he screw up badly with the pairing ending.

Edited by Gravenimage, 03 December 2016 - 12:31 AM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Considering the latest fillers are apparently all about trying to justify and more greatly canonize The Last....no chance anymore.