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Bail o' Lies

Member Since 06 Apr 2015
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 05:59 PM

#985724 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 25 November 2021 - 08:09 AM

And that's the problem because in order for Naruto to "love" Hinata, he had to receive a character assassination by making him or similar to Goku. That was the most stupidest move SP did on their end because they want to be a cash cow like Dragonball, (not mention listening to the radical/otaku fans thinking that "Hinata receiving a role upgrade = money"). However, that was a dumb move because the franchise were already in that status, especially in the West. 


The franchise and Naruto's characterization would had been fine and stay in tact if SP (along with the editors and Shueisha) left it as is, so we could had a least decent sequel /Part 3. But nooooooooo.....  :roll:

It wasn't he needed character assassination in order to love Hinata, it was his character had to be destroyed so she wouldn't be seen as his second choice. SP did not want their waifu seen as the Silver medal. Since, no matter how you look at the story; Naruto only got together with Hinata once it was clear Sakura and Sasuke were getting together.


In the manga, it seemed Naruto backed off because Sasuke was finally realizing his feelings for Sakura and he wanted his two most important people to be happy. Despite him still being in love with Sakura. Then he married Hinata to repay the favor of Neji's sacrifice by marrying his widow.


In the movie, Naruto only went after Sakura because he understood Sasuke liked her...somehow? Sakura realized this sometime after the war ended and rejected him fully. Then The Last happened.

#985689 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 16 November 2021 - 05:51 AM

It just shows how they don't have much love for some recent manga they wanna adapt, as shown with some things they did in Bleach and Black Clover too. Must be this new generation who want to make anime how they want it to be.

Its the arrogance and hubris of the Studio Pierrot's anime staff. They likely feel that their anime is why those franchise were successful not the original source material. They feel Naruto's success was theirs, so, they should dictate the story. Even though pretty much everyone knows when watching the anime and the first thing people tell anyone who thinks of watching Naruto is to skip the filler arcs and even created lists in order to avoid the SP's anime original arcs and episodes. They felt that the wealth they earned from Naruto made them so powerful they cancel any show they don't want to work on like Bleach. Its why they clearly got pissy when the Boruto manga initially wanted to ignore their "super byakugan" they gave Bolt in the anime's first arc. Its why they doing whatever they want with Black Clover since their choices made Naruto successful, why not do what they want with it? Even though their choices turned off many due to the early episodes and their slow pacing in their episodes. Also, whatever they did with Tokyo Ghoul that forced the mangaka to pretty much restart his story in hopes the anime would actually follow his story on the second attempt and eventually had to tearfully beg people to go see the live action movie to show how good his story actually is; because the anime kept screwing him over. 


Other big studios don't seem to have this problem as much. So, its really more the internal culture in SP that fosters this.

#985660 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 12 November 2021 - 01:06 PM


https://www.cbr.com/...end-sakura/amp/ well was not execpting a positive article from cbr about narusaku for the most part:


Naruto’s Real Best Friend Isn't Sasuke or Shikamaru - It's Sakura

Friendship is a major theme in Naruto, but rather than Sasuke, it's the pink-haired heroine of the series who has always been his best friend.
There is much debate in the Naruto fandom over who is the true best friend of Naruto Uzumaki. The two main contenders for the spot tend to be Sasuke Uchiha or Shikamaru Nara. Sasuke was one of Naruto's first friends and his rival throughout the story, while Shikamaru helped Naruto after the death of Jiraiya and is his closest adviser.
Sasuke and Shikamaru are both trusted and close friends, but the reality is Sakura Haruno has always been Naruto's best friend.
Sakura Is Naruto's Biggest Supporter
Ever since the Land of Waves Mission, Sakura has been an avid supporter of Naruto and his goals. She gives Naruto advice on chakra control, which allows him to quickly advance in his training. When Orochimaru attacks Team 7 in the Forest of Death, Sakura inspires Sasuke to fight by praising Naruto's willingness to preserve through impossible odds. During the final two parts of the Chunin Exams, Sakura is one of the only people to openly cheer for Naruto during his fight with Kiba and Neji.
Even when she is demoralized and depressed, Sakura makes sure to comfort Naruto first. After Sasuke defeats Team 7 and escapes during the second retrieval mission, Naruto is in despair over his inability to save a friend. Sakura reassures Naruto that they will get stronger and bring Sasuke back together. No matter what, Naruto can always count on Sakura to encourage him during his lowest moments.
Sakura Defends Naruto's Dreams
Sakura is one of the first characters in the series to truly believe in Naruto's dream of becoming Hokage. She has complete faith in Naruto and wants to see him accomplish his dreams almost as much as he does. During the first part of the Chunin Exams, Sakura almost forfeits so that Naruto won't be banned from taking the exams ever again. Part of the reason she decides to train under Tsunade is so she can better protect Naruto and his dream.
When Sakura is convinced that Naruto's promise to bring back Sasuke has become a burden, she attempts to give up on Sasuke. Sakura gives her false confession in the hopes that she can spare Naruto the pain of worrying about Sasuke and help him focus on his original dream. Sakura cares about Naruto so much that she's willing to let go of her own goals and wants so that he can be happy.
Sakura Is Naruto's Wingman
Sakura recognizes Hinata's feelings for Naruto and actively tries to set the two of them up. Throughout The Last: Naruto the Movie, Sakura encourages Hinata to give Naruto the scarf she made him and to confess her feelings. She repeatedly creates opportunities for the two of them to be alone. When Naruto is concerned that Hinata might be in love with another person, Sakura reassures him that Hinata only has feelings for him. Sakura understands Naruto's feelings better than anyone else and wants him to live a happy life after all the pain and tragedy he has experienced.  She is a key reason why Naruto and Hinata start their relationship in the first place.
Sakura Has Saved Naruto's Life More Than Anyone
Sakura is not only a defender of Naruto's dream but his life as well. During the second phase of the Chunin Exams, Sasuke and Naruto are badly injured and unconscious. When three Sound ninjas come to kill them, Sakura puts her life on the line to protect them. With the medical ninjutsu skills she learned under Tsunade, Sakura is even more effective at keeping Naruto alive. She physically keeps Naruto's heart beating when the Nine-Tailed Fox is ripped from him during the Fourth Shinobi War. Once again, when Naruto is critically injured by Toneri during The Last: Naruto the Movie, Sakura spends three entire days healing him. Without Sakura's impressive medical skills, Naruto wouldn't be around to save the world or achieve his dreams.
Sakura has shown fierce loyalty and dedication to Naruto throughout the series. She is his rock when he needs encouragement or support. She believes in his dream and will do anything to help him achieve it. She is defensive when others insult Naruto or his ambitions. Sakura has routinely put Naruto's feelings before her own feelings and wants. She always attempts to make decisions that she thinks are in Naruto's best interest, such as setting him and Hinata up. None of Naruto's other friends have done as much for him or protected him as much as Sakura. Clearly, Naruto couldn't ask for a better friend.

I'm also surprised that they actually found someone that did research instead of the usual online rando they pick up to write their "articles".

He is one of their randos. Remember, they always just want clicks. While yes they do more pro nH stuff. Sometimes they do the opposite to hopefully get clicks from the others side to click on those pages. And sometimes the opposition will even click it more then the people that it was for.


As for the Article.


The Intro. Shikamaru was Sakura's replacement once she could no longer be Naruto's closest supporter. Sasuke... weird brother of eternal bonds thing. Surprise they don't bring up Gaara though I guess he is a pen pal.


Sakura is Naruto's Biggest Supporter. Yes, that's what her character was originally. She was the girl that initially wasn't impressed with Naruto but through his action persuaded her.


Sakura Defends Naruto's Dreams. Yes.


Sakura is Naruto's Wingman...and here it is, support for the ending as well as the Last...I don't feel like complaining about the last again today.


Sakura Has Saved Naruto's Life More Than Anyone. Again, Yes.


Sakura has shown fierce loyalty and dedication to Naruto throughout the series. She is his rock when he needs encouragement or support. She believes in his dream and will do anything to help him achieve it. She is defensive when others insult Naruto or his ambitions. Sakura has routinely put Naruto's feelings before her own feelings and wants. She always attempts to make decisions that she thinks are in Naruto's best interest, such as setting him and Hinata up. None of Naruto's other friends have done as much for him or protected him as much as Sakura. Clearly, Naruto couldn't ask for a better friend.


And yet, that was all thrown away because the otaku in SP lusted after a side character, and used a poor understanding of the international fanbase to force their desires onto the story; destroying it.

#985657 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 12 November 2021 - 04:10 AM

I don't know. After Katsuki Bakugo, Shoto Todoroki and Yourichi's release, it suddenly went dead. 


Although, I didn't hear anything recent with Shinobi Strikers, excluding the Masters DLC with Sakura in her war uniform was the latest release.

Probably either ran out of good characters or the DLC wasn't selling well. From what I recall, it flopped hard at launch.


As for Shinobi Strikers -which also had poor sales and reception- seems to be on its fourth season:




Sakura (war arc) Itachi and Nagato and Kawaki (Nail) are in season four.


For this game, I think its just cheaper to make so easier to keep going. Remember, they are just using CC2 Ninja Storm engine and characters for the most part.  So, all they have to do is have a limited roster at the start and then slowly refill it with the old games characters and a few reskins to milk their customers. That takes far less money then having to create a new character model each time like Jump Force had to. Also, they cut down on "new" characters, in Seasons 1 & 2 it was nine "new" characters. While in seasons 3 & 4 its only 5, and some of them are just re-skins.

#985654 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 12 November 2021 - 01:41 AM

You forgot Street Fighter on the list.

I didn't add a dozen if not more others they collaborated with, I figured the 17 going on 18 would make it clear enough to people.


In other news for Jump Force, they're ending support.

I'm surprised it lasted three years. How much support did it get after launch?


Exactly and even Jump Force used Shippuden Naruto instead of Hokage Naruto while also having Boruto in for some reasons outside of likely something from Shueisha


It's not like Boruto would have been hard to do. Shrink Naruto, give him a black jacket, change his hair a bit, and give him a thrown rasengan. And his ultimate attack is... the Naruto Rendan finishing off with a Rasengan. So, he just a replacement for Kid Naruto

#985622 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 07 November 2021 - 11:04 AM

 Oh the Logic of of SS is easy. It is NH's logic where there will be a brick wall and you're talking to it because Naruto never treated her negatively and that is good enough for their fans since Naruto and Hinata are the "SIMP prizes" the other deserves. SS you can win easily because of everything you listed and more, and ultimately there is no excuse afterwards because Sasuke did not change into a better man to truly have any water under the bridge for how he treated Sakura, when that really is the go to character development to negate any negative relationship between two characters.
 On a different but related subject, another reason these marriages are shams, as I've said over and over again, are that Hinata and Sakura are the ones pouring everything into the relationship. Naruto and Sasuke are sitting back and doing nothing. If that relationship is fine for their fans I won't argue it any further, but last time I checked a romantic passionate relationship that all of these pro enders are going on and on about are reciprocal and done by both parties. Naruto and Sasuke currently (and for the longest time by the story post ch. 700) act like even S** is the last thing on their minds regarding their wives  AND THAT is saying something. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Since I'm sure that is the most basic reasoning their fans have for them get together

Why do you think the SS fans were freaking out about the gaiden implying Sasuke and Sakura never kissed and rarely if at all had sex. That was the entire reason for them to get together. Sakura was their insert stand in to fantasize about having sex with the dreamy mysterious dangerous bad boy they could fix because he secretly deeply cares about them. Of course they then desperately ignore it or don't care because SS is their fantasy because they never got the romance they wanted in life.


As for nH, again Hinata is 'easy.' She is this super hot, super rich, eternally devoted, hopefully wild in bed, never disagree with you, always does wants to do what YOU want, and takes no effort to get or keep. They are perfect couple because neither side had to put in any effort to get together.


Sasuke avoided his family for twelve years. The second he became Bolt's mentor he is there every day Bolt needs him. Who does he care about?


Naruto seems to give up on life anytime he is around his family, yet seems energized like his old self when he around other kids or Sasuke when Bolt isn't around.

#985590 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 03 November 2021 - 09:35 PM

Oh right. Well in any case, that's what it means then. Sasuke= harem by that logic. And no they cant say Sakuras love is exceptional because again Sasuke was the first love of their age group almost entirely

Sometimes it is best to just point out the logical end of an idea calmly, instead of pointing out how wrong they are.


They can't even claim that Sakura was the first one to have a crush on him. It was made very clear that Ino had a crush on Sasuke before Sakura did. Remember when Sakura boldly proclaimed to her friends she had a crush on him they could already guess that was the case, in fact they guessed who it was even before she could say it; likely because every girl was crushing on him by that point and Sakura was just late to the party. And, even in later flashbacks, Ino is boldly cheering on Sasuke while Sakura isn't in that first time Naruto and Sasuke fought one.

#985583 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 03 November 2021 - 01:26 AM

Hey founded this thread on sakura that might be interesting though I'm not sure if what will everyone here thinks of it https://twitter.com/...B-3lQRA9RA&s=19


The inferiority complex of Haruno Sakura, a thread.


By comparison, I feel like such a...”
This is the typical thought that come out someone’s mind suffering from an inferiority complex. A person suffering from this complex sees only their failures — their failures take over their qualities and the comparison with others is systematic.
The author Masashi Kishimoto had implemented it with such a great subtlety that catches my full attention. So I’m making this thread in order to analyze this interesting aspect of genin Sakura.
Well before I start, I want to inform you that I’m going to make threads about all Naruto’s female characters and I’m starting with Naruto’s tritagonist “Haruno Sakura”.
Inferiority complex is a fundamental sense of inadequacy and insecurity that leads to express a bad opinion on oneself, this subconscious opinion is usually an “obscure feeling” rather than a lucid judgement as a result of painful memories of mistakes made or external influences — parents for example.
The essence of this complex is to have a set of negative thoughts, feelings, behaviors and tendencies. To explain this more, lemme work out some complex’s major signs on Sakura’s 
1. Exhibit personality traits such as perfectionism and neuroticism :
→ Sakura has shown a perfect superficial façade, polite — which contradict with Inner-Sakura (her true self), studious who would only be satisfied by obtaining the highest results at the academy. She also doesn’t want to hang out with noisy people who could ruin her reputation which explains why she didn’t want to be friend with Naruto — a noisy Kid.
Sakura “disliked” Naruto for his stupid pranks in the village and not because he was the demon fox, she didn’t even know what a bijū or a jinchuriki was until her the Gaara arc. 
She did never really hated Naruto. In fact, she didn’t know her feelings towards him.
→ Neuroticism characterizes a persistent tendency to experience negative emotions. It’s also associated with low emotional intelligence, which may involve decreased motivation and interpersonal activities — death.
To be honest, I think it's pointless to analyze this point further: Sakura is expressive, it’s a striking feature especially in the first part whether in her thoughts but also through the way she manifests her insecurities.
2. Shutting down out of shame, guilt, embarrassment or an inward sense of defeat:
Afraid to face reality, she ran away; claiming that she couldn’t be a friend with Yamanaka Ino because of Sasuke which was Ino’s point of view. 
With Sakura’s point of view, it was because her of her inferiority which is confirmed by the author himself in the Databook. Sakura used Sasuke as a lame excuse.
3. Demeaning others as way to transfer their own feeling of failure and isolation:
Sakura made fun of Naruto, it’s a way to transfer her own failure. A person suffering from an inferiority complex tends unfortunately to exhibit this behaviour a lot.
Sasuke shows some great maturity with her later; he understood that she didn’t do this on purpose. That’s why he complimented her, reminding her that she wasn’t alone and she must never downplay herself and to be proud of the progress she was making. There's also a striking proof for this; Sasuke pretended to forget the moment when she made of Naruto which clearly shows that he understood her.
There’s something I noticed, Sakura envied Naruto’s loneliness, if we look at the canon information about her parents from the Road to Ninja movie, they had humiliated her but I am interested in is their words. 
One of the major origins of this complex is family, a child whose highly critical parent repeatedly says things like “You’re stupid”, “You're a klutz” or “You never do anything right” may internalize this complex maybe even up to their adulthood.
Without even mentioning the fact that Sakura’s deepest desire was her parents’ death in canon which makes me wonder the horror she endured to come to wish this and it will remain a mystery forever.
Sakura seems to be no longer close to her family since she leaves always her daughter Sarada with Iruka sensei when she goes on missions.
(Source : Sasuke Retsuden)
Informations : 
Sakura will have 7 threads and this is the first part. In the next thread I'm going to analyze her major thematic.

Here, just incase they delete this and I'm not dealing with images. Oh looks like they are going to have even more.


All of team 7 is a basket case of psychological issues. Sakura is merely the most normal out of all of them. Or, Naruto depending how you look at it. I will say the analysis is fair for the most part.


Let's go through the four groups they analyze: Her parents, Ino, Sasuke, and Naruto.


They are putting too much thought into why they aren't around in the sequel. The reason her parents aren't around in the sequel is that same reason that of the rest parents/grandparents aren't around in Boruto, besides Hinata's father. They just aren't being used and are being ignored by the writing team. Another reason they aren't around is they are another awkward reminder of NS because they were another parallel pairing, 'a high strung woman marries the clown she finds funny.' The Road of the ninja illusion world was made when she was complaining about her parents while Naruto was wishing for his, by not even the half way mark she missed her parents after enjoying her temporary freedom from them. Her parents were probably like they guess her father makes jokes to try to make her forget about her forehead insecurities and her mother probably just told her to ignore them and focus on her school work. 


Ino, they are right about. She was the girl that gave some help to Sakura when she was in a bad spot and gave her confidence and companionship. But, Sakura felt she was living in her shadow, so to escape she wanted to rival her in a match to see who could get Sasuke first who they both had a crush on. Ino understood this and became bitter that their friendship ended because of that. So, neither to attempt to meet each other a resolve the issue until the chunin exam where they had a draw.


Sasuke is an antisocial ass not a malicious prick. Yes, he thinks most people are beneath him to the point he doesn't want to be around them or care about them, but he doesn't go out of his way to express it, and he does have standards. When he was rude to Sakura it was because he was getting to the point; often about how he doesn't like her. Doesn't help that he can't understand why she even likes him, she just reminds them of the bench scene, and all he can think is, "you liked the time I basically called you a kitten?"


Naruto was the annoying unpopular brat that wouldn't stop bugging her. Then as she got to know him more she started to find admirable qualities and slowly fall in love with him. What prevented her from falling in love with him were realizing she was and her lingering feelings toward Sasuke. Neither which could be fully resolved till after Sasuke returned to the village and which Kishi refused to do because he became obsessed with making the SNS rematch the final battle. Sakura did in a way admire and envy Naruto freedom even early on and did often have similar thoughts to his own. Which is likely why her façade dropped with him and she acted more naturally with him.


Funny how this fandumb simps over Hinata’s inferiority complex. But Sakura’s is not a blip on most viewers’ radars.

That's because to them Sakura is a kitten who doesn't put out and beats up their insert character (or denies their insert character the man she is entitled to have.) So she is an oppressor and therefor can't have suffered being the one who causes suffering, cannot have anything that makes she sympatric, and ultimately is just evil and you should feel no guilt when something bad happens to her because it is justice to them.

#985581 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 03 November 2021 - 12:20 AM

Well point being that the reasoning that the couples are together are twisted fake facsimiles of love either way you look at it. The girls can’t let go of their first loves and are defined by it even though Ino did and by extension all of Sasuke’s other fan girls, so they are “terrible women” (quote, unquote). The guys married the girls out of guilt and obligation. Double standard kitten all over the place

Honestly, if we look at each girl in this manga, almost all the women their age, except Hinata, would likely be in Sasuke's harem. If we followed their belief to its logical conclusion.

#985551 Boruto: Naruto Next Generation Anime Discusion

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 30 October 2021 - 07:11 PM

You mean with twitter or the fandoms part?

Because the fandoms....they don't really show me anything or they gave me a vague scene from one of the movie, but when I show a manga page they call it "non-canon." I never make statements without a back-up source, but these people can't give me anything. They rather try and debunk my statements than provide anything to back up their own statement.

That part of the reason why its pointless to argue with them. Since their pairing won everything they want to be canon is canon and anything they don't want to be canon is non-canon. Any anime filler they want to be is canon if they like it and any manga panel can be non-canon if they don't like it.


They have decided they control what the story of Naruto and Boruto was and anything else they ignore. Your always just bashing you head against a wall in arguing with them.

#985539 Naruto: Alternative The Last (Doujinshi)

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 29 October 2021 - 05:48 AM

SS/NH depicts what would happen when you don't marry the love of your life. They end up miserable :)

It is more marry someone you feel you have to settle some debt.


Looking at the pairing from the last two chapters and seeing how they built from that:


Naruto from the manga is standing next to Hinata over Neji's grave. I say this just to make sure people understand it because it has fallen out of practice in the west, but it was clear to the Japanese that Neji and Hinata were suppose to get together. That would allow Neji to be adopted as by his uncle, then become the heir of the clan, and then once his new 'father' retired he would end the cage bird system. So, to them Hinata was Neji's all but proclaimed fiancé therefor Hinata is a somewhat widow. So, in order to repay Neji for sacrificing himself Naruto decides he must marry Hinata to take care of her.


Sasuke felt guilty for being an ass to Sakura and constantly rejecting her feeling towards him, and once Naruto had to marry Hinata; there was no one else for Sakura to get together with. So, he married her or something like that. Or she got desperate after seeing all her friends marry one after the other so she hunted down Sasuke they had sex that resulted in a child and to keep the Sharingan in the Uchiha clan he made her an Uchiha.


Of course, there is barely a connection between the pairings. Sakura thinking Sasuke complimented her forehead and always had hidden feelings for her, while he has always just found her annoying when he wasn't indifferent towards her, but at least they have spent time together in beforehand as members of Team 7. Both in the manga and the anime imply Naruto and Hinata got married very quickly and then had a child soon after marriage.


Then, both marriages hit their rough patch Sasuke doesn't really care to spend time with Sakura, and Bolt became hostile towards his father and pretty much started chasing him out of the family. 


Then, they found comfort and fulfillment in their work and spending time with kids that are not their own. Sasuke his never ending journey to find himself, then as the new Danzo for Naruto, and then as Bolt's Piccolo. Naruto as being Hokage and adopting Nail.

#985523 Boruto: Naruto Next Generation Anime Discusion

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 26 October 2021 - 11:24 PM

https://twitter.com/...sHyG8ATtFQ&s=19 is what this tweet saying about boruto being number 1 for Tokyo TV true or a load of nonsense

Blue this is another case of you asking stuff and anyone here just having to go, "Well, we don't know since we stop keeping up with it years ago." As well as, "it is kind of hard to agree or disagree when we don't have more details or data to work off more then just a vague random claim." You might as well ask the person saying it for more information both to give you more info and data to show us to analyze.


They also said its number one on cruchyroll and... on cruchyroll its number two behind One Piece and Naruto Shippuden is number three, and demon slayer is number four. Followed by something called The fruit of evolution (that just started), tokyo revengers, takt op. Destiny (that also just started), World Trigger, Black Cover, Jujutsu, and ah that's what I was looking for My Hero Academy. Now, I don't know how cruchyroll list these, but I'm guess something like most watched this month or something like that. Unless you believe the Fruit of Evolution completely overshadowed those three shounen jump anime with just 4 episodes compared to their hundreds. So, it is likely Boruto and Naruto Shippuden are getting a boost from the Suicide Nuke Mode being shown in the anime and its making people nostalgic for Naruto for a bit. 


Also how much money are the companies getting from Cruchyroll. The high guardian spice thing was apparently a scandal due to the fact that it contradicted that they were giving most profits back to the anime companies so that the staff wouldn't be underpaid, but clearly were keeping it with the plans on making their own cartoon...poor quality cartoons at that.


So that's the claim you weren't wonder about but I could check and guess just by going on Cruchyroll site.


As for it being #1 for TVTokyo...in what? DVD Sales? Ratings? Money they get from Licensing & Distribution? What?


Let's go for the old tried and true that they are basing it off that TvTokyo report from years ago that showed Naruto was number one and Boruto was number five. Which was licensing and distribution. If its that one we have covered that. Foreign companies bought it for their local market assuming it would sell like Naruto did, doesn't mean it successful, just means some companies were trick into a contract to buy a poor product.


As for anything else, its number one for TVTokyo, we have also went over this, but TVtokyo doesn't really have that many anime about twelve are currently running and Boruto is the oldest right now.  Its not in the top ten anime in japan in tv rating and never has been.


Finally, let's go over what Namenash normally points to, if its so successful where are its spin off products? If something successful companies tend to milk it for all its worth. When was the last Boruto video game; that wasn't a mobile game? When was its last OVA? When is it next movie coming out? Demon Slayers has a movie that out preformed both the Last and the Boruto movie internationally, and it is now releasing its game. Dragon Balls Super is getting another movie and its anime ended a few years ago. Black Clover, My Hero, and Demon Slayers have all gotten video games and movies. Where are the Boruto products? Hell, where is the live action Naruto movie they were talking about around the the time of the ending?

#985497 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 19 October 2021 - 11:34 PM

And you know, this wouldn't be so bad if the Naruto story itself acknowledge that not all problems immediately were fixed and assumed.  What I mean by that is, Naruto can push for world peace or whatever, but openly acknowledge that it will take more than just him putting in hard labor or that it could be something to work on. 

"We may not solve all problems now, but starting today we are making a step in the right direction" kind of ending and it would be okay if not ALL problems were solved and be a hard issues in any sequels. 

Now, one could argue that them never confirming nor denying all issues mentioned means they were fixed, but the big issue is some of these problems were just swept under the rug and now it feels like characters saying "Oh, yeah, I forgot that." You see what I mean? Hell, look at the filler episode of those three ninja trying to get Tsunade to pay her debts and by the end she said "I fixed that a while ago." It was a funny anecdote, but it works alot better than "oops, we forgot."

I don't know what I am saying here. I guess, it doesn't feel like they fixed it and just fell into place. Like how people say that the "Hyuga civil war ended because Hinata married Naruto." What? That is total crap.  Yeah, in history some issues have been resolved due to royal marriages, but Naruto is NOT royal and he married Hinata before becoming Hokage so these group of people all of a sudden played nice because of potential royalty? That's borderline tyrannical behavior.

Most stories have the audience assume the problems are fixed by/after the end of them without going into detail.


"The knight saves the princess, marries her, was crowned king, and then ruled justly. We don't need to know about his tax plan, in most cases."


This doesn't work with Naruto for three reasons: the final battle with Sasuke, changes in the ending, and it has a sequel.


The final battle was built up for what? 10-12 years to be this climatic final fight between Naruto and Sasuke. In it, Sasuke lays out his plans and reasoning behind it, while Naruto had... nothing.


The ending people assumed Naruto as Hokage, Sakura as his wife, and one of their kids vandalized the Hokage Monument because they wanted to be like their father. Instead, Naruto just became hokage, Hinata is his wife, and Bolt did it because he hates his father; weird. But, not too bad, a bit jarring, but livable. So, what was Naruto's final lesson to the son and the reader to finish off the manga? Endure your problems. From the guy that was all about changing things and never giving up.


Then, the sequel, which requires to know what the old guard accomplished and how does it reflects in the new story. Nothing changed, besides some new tech; the cycle of hatred continues.


One would be ignorable, two is a problem, but three makes it clear Naruto accomplished nothing and his story meant nothing.

#985494 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 19 October 2021 - 08:08 PM

You are correct.


But Naruto wasn't just any manga/anime. It was in top 3 for years. And iirc #1 internationally. It's obvious fans would reject new works from Kishimoto. But Shounen Jump knows Naruto can still be milked. They know they can dangle the carrot and a lot of people will answer the bait. Simple there is to much money in Naruto to be made. Them not rebooting it in any way seams stupid. A simple market research would tell hem where they went wrong the first time. And remake it basically opposite of what we got. In the end everything depends on money.

It was, now it isn't. That what's important to these companies. It was at the top of its game years ago, now its yesterday's news. The thing that stops them from even considering a reboot is, "how much is it going to cost them to do a reboot and how much money could they potentially make compared to what they are making from Boruto?" They already gambled on potential success once and it didn't work out, why try again?


Bold: Isn't that the way many villagers treated Naruto? Why he made a fool out of himself to draw attention. Good or bad. Did not matter to him as long as they acknowledge him in any way.


To think he treats his "family" the same way just shows how far everyone involved working on Naruto failed.

If you beat a dog enough, it will flinch whenever you raise your hand.


Like I said, Naruto is more given up then anything else. Which seems to come from both the stress of his job and the hostility he get from his son wearing him down. Not from outright uncaringness nor fear like the villagers did. 


Granted, chapter 700 did have Bolt act like Naruto did at the start of his manga, paralleling them, which means Naruto's neglect was equal/similar to how the village neglected him. Which is either is true or makes Bolt come off as an overreacting entitled spoiled brat. Both and anime and manga make it come off as the latter. In that, he was such an aggressive unlikeable spoiled brat that he chased off his father.

#985486 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 19 October 2021 - 05:36 PM

I don't think there will be any reboot. Here's why.

Economists use the concept of opportunity cost to explain decision-making and the potential for regret. In other words, it's the regret you anticipate having for not making a choice.

Opportunity cost is the forgone benefit that would have been derived by an option not chosen.

The metapoint of being consistent with the story (in which making NaruSaku happens was part of it) is an opportunity cost. The publisher went ahead serving the loud minority, thrown away character development of 15 years and gave the loyal fans one of the most attricious, unsatisfactory ending in manga history. Of course they paid a hefty price for it, with now Naruto sales merely 10% of the original series, or even less.

In 15 years, Naruto original manga sold ~250 million copies. Whereas Boruto barely sold ~5 million in its 7 years run.

Now, here's the thing: you can't recover opportunity cost.

No matter what they do, the ship has sailed and whatever benefits they may realize are no longer there. Course correct now would be a waste of effort.

Look at how Kishi's new manga got axed within 5 volumes. Its first volume barely sold 10k copies in the first week. He can try again and I'll guarantee he'll get the same treatment from Japanese readers. I bet you that no sane editor out there in WSJ would want to put Kishimoto's name in their project. It'd be a good recipe for project failure. It's been more than a year since Samurai 8 was cancelled and there's a good reason no rumors of Kishi starting a new work or series.

So, why bother making a reboot when they don't even treat their loyal customer right?

Shounen Jump apparently has a three strikes rule as far as flops are concern; from what I understand. Samurai 8 was his first, unless they are really petty I don't think Boruto will count. So, he can try two more times with new manga before he has to work somewhere else. Which if he does try, would be trying to write stories other then Naruto-Boruto. Since, he will probably be mid fifties when he is done with Boruto.


As for the companies, they saw an easy choice. Naruto was their international seller, nothing else seemed to be selling internationally anywhere near its level, and nothing coming up seemed to be able to replace it. They can get manga to replace its sales domestically but not internationally easily. So, if the international fans wanted nH to continue to support the franchise that what they would get; the upset domestic fans can just read another manga. Then the backlash domestically and the realization the nH fans were mostly pirating it, but they couldn't abandon course due to being on their Path to Boruto plan (that year between Naruto ending and the start of Boruto) they cooked up. By the time they could change, other manga came out and replace Naruto internationally due to streaming reviving interest in anime and manga in the West. So, then it became, "what would be the point?" Just milk the people supporting it for what its worth and focus on other IPs.