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#41 Nate River

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 06:35 PM

QUOTE (Yoshimoto Trigen @ Nov 16 2008, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He wanted to know why we hate Bush so much, so I put it bluntly. Sorry if I offended anyone.


No, I didn't. I never asked or even implied that question. I don't care why you hate Bush. There is a difference between being blunt and being an ass about it. You could have easily said, The War in Iraq and still made the same point.

I pointed out the hypocrisy of those who are criticizing conservatives for their reaction to Obama's election while they had the same kinds of extreme reactions to Bush's election, and his entire presidency for that matter. For example, the comparisons to Adolf Hitler. In Florida they came up with Post Election Stress Disorder for liberals who were so distraught over Bush's 2004 victory that they sought psychotherapy. Do think they are justified in such behavior because you think they're right?

I no more condone conservatives reaction to this than liberals to Bush.

#42 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 07:28 PM

No more email or internet for Obama:

http://www.nytimes.c...no_interstitial

#43 Illjwamh

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 11:31 PM

What does that say? I don't want to register for an account at the NY Times.

#44 KittenLou

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 11:55 PM

I was able to read it and I don't have an account.

It talks about how Obama is reluctant to give up his blackberry once he goes into office, and how he uses it to keep in touch with people via e-mail, etc.

It made me grin.

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#45 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 09:22 AM

QUOTE (Illjwamh @ Nov 16 2008, 06:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What does that say? I don't want to register for an account at the NY Times.

What?

Did you even try to click the link? huh.gif

You don't need an account to read it.

#46 Illjwamh

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 09:45 AM

I clicked the link and it took me to a page asking me to sign up for an account. Hence my earlier snarkiness.

I later tried my desktop and got the same result. I'm at my folks' place right now and for whatever reason it works on theirs. Go figure.

Edited by Illjwamh, 17 November 2008 - 09:49 AM.


#47 Codus N

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 11:16 AM

QUOTE (Dormin @ Nov 17 2008, 01:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Alive and kicking ( Isreal Lobby) Rahm Emanuel is Obama's White House chief of staff, is the son os israelis.

Im for once really hopful that Obama will make a diffrance in the middle east. I know everyone are now busy with the crisis and all but we need the US to make this peace thing work, so don't forget about us!

hmm,you're interesting Dormin,ya ever read 'the Israel Lobby"yet.I'm kinda glad to hear something like this from the Israelis.I bet a lot of young Israelis agree with you.Oh,& Obama wanting to keep in contact by e-mail,I think that's a great idea but it's too bad about the possiblity of hackers

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#48 Derock

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 05:45 PM

QUOTE (Illjwamh @ Nov 17 2008, 04:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I clicked the link and it took me to a page asking me to sign up for an account. Hence my earlier snarkiness.

I later tried my desktop and got the same result. I'm at my folks' place right now and for whatever reason it works on theirs. Go figure.


That's strange...

When I first clicked it, it lead me to the article and I didn't have to sign up. Now I tried clicking it again in the school's computer and it still the same. Maybe your parents' computer have an account for the NY Times online.

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#49 Guest_Kodachi Claws_*

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 08:06 PM

I really don't find much comparison between the insults/threats Bush has gotten to what Obama is receiving. Many liberals were upset about the results of the 2000 election, but since there was a whole fiasco involving that plus a recount that was halted, it was understandable. Besides, what's the worst thing they did? They egged his limo. Arguably rude, but at least they did not use Molotov Cocktails. After that, most everything quited down, with Bush simply having low expectations from the left. 9/11, everything was up in the air. It wasn't until well into the Iraq war did we go beyond poking fun of him to criticizing him. I can imagine the attacks during the 04 election becoming more vicious, but by then he did SOMETHING. Obama isn't officially president yet, and his attacks are becoming downright nasty and he's even wearing body armor underneath his clothes.

Also, Obama's death threats are much more frightening, when considering people have already tried to kill him, and there were those kids who wanted to kill several blacks as well. I don't ever recall a story of a liberal being caught with a gun somewhere near a Bush residence, nor do I recall some hippies planning to take out church-goers.

There's also the evident racism. Now, not all (and indeed, I hope most are not) conservatives are racists, and there are incidnets where some liberals turn out to be closet racists or develop tendancies, but racism was rampant throughout McCain's campaign. Now, McCain is not a racist, and I appluad him for trying to quiet down the nasty rhetoric going around. But so many still believe that Obama is a Muslim or an Arab, neither of which is correct (and even if they were, his character and policies would matter more). Palin may have been referring to Bill Ayers when she said "Palling around with terrorists", but it seemed obvious that the crowd was thinking of Bin Laden when they heard that word (I have a feeling most of them did not even know who Ayers was). Let's also not forget the South, which for the most part is heavily Republican and is well known for racism (again, to make things clear, I'm not saying everyone who lives in the south is racist, nor does racism exist solely in that region, I'm just saying it's known for that).

The only point I can concede on about the Bush attacks was his comparison to Hitler by MoveOn.org. I don't condone it, but you guys are aware that a Georgia senator compared Obama to Hitler as well, right?

As for Obama being radical, it just makes me roll my eyes when someone says that; conservative pundits think that anything center or center-left of their ideals alone constitutes radical. In terms of political leanings, the only difference I see between Obama and other democrats is that Obama wasn't afriad to pass himself as "liberal"; Clinton, Gore and Kerry had to present themselves almost dead center, sometimes as even having the same ideals as their rivals. From what I hear, the republicans may be entering a similar phase to what the democrats have experienced where they have to govern from the center in order to win on a national level.

Furthermore, I find there to be 3 levels on a political spectrum from both the left and right. Level 1 is more or less moderate with leanings to one side, although such people might have a position or two arguably opposite to most of their beliefs, where I would put Clinton and Biden. Level 2 is when they are solidly commited to one side, and can listen or even get along with the radical faction, but also acknowledges a large portion of people don't agree with them, recognizes what is practical, and will compromise with their opponents. Level 3 I think requires no explanation. I personally put myself as a leftist level 2, and I find Obama to be on that same level as well. If you want a level 3, I'd reccomend looking at Ralph Nader or Alan Keys.

If there is one thing that has really been pissing me off about about politics from the early 90's to now, it's about how liberals were demonized. I don't deny that conservatives have been the victims of rather off-color names, but such behavior seemed to be their entire arguement. I think it says something when an episode of Bill Moyers can actually compare right-wing talk radio to Hutu talk radio right before and during the Rwandan genocide. Hopefully soon, we can stop the demonizing altogether, simply acknowledge fundamental differences in beliefs, and actually work together to solve problems.

As for regarding the Bush=Hitler:

Let's end this with something funny. --Click here to view--
THREE REICHS AND YOU'RE OUT

George Bush isn't Hitler. In the 2004 election, MoveOn.org compared Bush to Hitler, ignoring the first rule for being taken seriously by grown ups, which is: Don't call everyone you don't like "Hitler."

Bush is not Hitler. For one thing, Hitler was a decorated, frontline combat veteran. Also, in the election that brought him to power in 1933, Hitler got more votes than the other candidates.

And Hitler had a mustache. So let's all take a rest from playing the Hitler card.

Unless we're talking about Saddam Hussein. Now, that guy was Hitler.


Do keep in mind the seemingly positive comments about Hitler is a joke, which even my republican grandmother capatalized on in one occasion. She played a game with me and my mom asking us to pick a candidate without knowing their name, but would list some facts about them. The seemingly bad candidates turned out to be FDR and Churchill.

#50 Dormin

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 10:21 PM

QUOTE (Newkerz @ Nov 17 2008, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
hmm,you're interesting Dormin,ya ever read 'the Israel Lobby"yet.I'm kinda glad to hear something like this from the Israelis.I bet a lot of young Israelis agree with you.


Hrmm nope, truth is that most israelis will indeed think you are antisamite (Which i think if pure #$@$)

But don't judge to harshly, we have been in the state of war since 1948, add to that the holocoust and 2000 years of prosacuation and you get the most pernoid country in the world. a_shifty.gif

Hell most of the time I open my mouth people see me as a traitor, but once again, it's because people are scared.

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#51 Codus N

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 02:01 PM

hmm, I see...well,I think that it's time for this millennium generation (of Israelis) to step up and change the ways of the old.It's time for us to correct the mistakes of the past & put the past behind. There's proof for that as well,I remember reading an article about Palestinian kids playing together with Israeli kids (on a soccer team commemorating the world cup) & the touching fact is that they don't care about the $%^&* that the old geezers feed them.In fact,they even wished they could play together again some time

Edited by Newkerz, 18 November 2008 - 02:02 PM.

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#52 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 06:51 PM

A videogame based on Obama? O.o

TThe actual game. Super 'Obama' world XDD

#53 Derock

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 07:49 PM

LMAO!!! 111189.gif


I just played and the levels are in Alaska with retail stores like Neiman Marcus and Macy's in the background and the enemies are the pigs, the tax collectors, trucks and the people with the clothes rack for 100000 points :rofl:

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#54 Pite

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 03:56 AM

Now I've seen everything....
The meaning of life is to find your own meaning of life.

#55 Paradox Jast

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 01:13 PM

Haha, bridge to Nowhere, Alaska. That was awesome.

#56 Guest_Kodachi Claws_*

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:51 PM

Any thoughts on his cabinet picks? I've been getting mixed responses on that one. I see some people dissapointed with his choices, and others are quite pleased. My mother is not happy about his pick for treasury secratary (appearently he's part of the economic problem) for one. On the other hand, my grandmother, who is a strong republican that states repeatedly that she would probably never vote democrat, is quite impressed with his choices, and hopes Hillary becomes Sec. of State (she doesn't even like the Clintons).

So, what are your thoughts?

#57 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 09:42 PM

QUOTE (Kodachi Claws @ Nov 26 2008, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Any thoughts on his cabinet picks? I've been getting mixed responses on that one. I see some people dissapointed with his choices, and others are quite pleased. My mother is not happy about his pick for treasury secratary (appearently he's part of the economic problem) for one. On the other hand, my grandmother, who is a strong republican that states repeatedly that she would probably never vote democrat, is quite impressed with his choices, and hopes Hillary becomes Sec. of State (she doesn't even like the Clintons).

So, what are your thoughts?

I'm glad that the holier-than-thou, rose-tinted shades that some of his more 'liberal' supporters eyes a certain someone here >.>, are finally being removed, and they are finally beginning to see that Obama isn't some kind of superhero who is going to sweep down, and suddenly 'change' the way that politics are done. The man is a true politician, meaning that he knows the system inside and out, and plays by the rules of that same system, and so any miraculous 'change' people were waiting and expecting him to make...well...they're going to be waiting an awfully long time for that to happen.

Also this article:

Here

Does a pretty good job of further expressing my personal views on this topic.

#58 Illjwamh

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:11 PM

That's a good article, and makes several good points. I know more than one liberal who has been disillusioned since the election because they thought Obama was going to revolutionize the country toward the left or something. I don't know where they got that idea. I myself voted for him because I think he has the right idea about how to get things done and I think he'll be good for the country. I've agreed with all of his appointments so far (I was particularly happy to hear that he plans to keep Gates, even for a little while) except for Clinton. I don't think she was the right choice, but he seems to have a pretty good track record when it comes to important decisions, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one and see how it works out.



As for the progressive reaction, I think South Park satirized it best:

"I thought things were gonna be DIFFERENT now!"

Edited by Illjwamh, 26 November 2008 - 10:12 PM.


#59 Nate River

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:21 PM

QUOTE (Sakura Blossoms @ Nov 26 2008, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm glad that the holier-than-thou, rose-tinted shades that some of his more 'liberal' supporters eyes a certain someone here >.>, are finally being removed, and they are finally beginning to see that Obama isn't some kind of superhero who is going to sweep down, and suddenly 'change' the way that politics are done. The man is a true politician, meaning that he knows the system inside and out, and plays by the rules of that same system, and so any miraculous 'change' people were waiting and expecting him to make...well...they're going to be waiting an awfully long time for that to happen.

Also this article:

Here

Does a pretty good job of further expressing my personal views on this topic.


And this may be something he battles his entire presidency. Even if he performs relatively well, I have doubts that is what those who voted for him want. He promised an agent of change and built some very lofty expectations for his presidency. There are a lot of people who expect a lot from him and he has to please various groups that aren't necessarily compatible. And let's face it, he's the one that set them. I think in the closing days of the campaign he figured out why this may blow up in his face and has been trying to reduce them ever since. The far left can't be happy he is leaving Robert Gates in place, though that seems to be the prudent thing to do until the agreement with the Iraqi's and a withdrawal is completed. He wants to please unions, but those UAW contracts are absolutely killing the American Auto Industry. Their labor costs are almost double what competitors costs are and it's hard to complete like that.

Fair or not, voters may judge him by those expectations whether they are reasonable or not. I could foresee him doing a decent job in an objective sense (considering the circumstances) and still being punished because he doesn't meet those expectations.

All the Clinton choices makes his promise of change look like a total crock. How is it change to pretty much bring back the same people who were in charge during the Clinton years? Except for Gates there is no reaching across the isle and since we've seen these people before there is no reason to expect any new ideas, just more of the same ideas liberals have been proposing for decades. Even his economic plan, so far, is simple a repackaging of FDR policies that didn't work in the 1930's. Where exactly are all the fresh ideas and approaches he claimed to bring?

You are correct Kodachi, that his Treasury pick has had his hands all over the current bail outs that, let's face it, aren't working all that well. And Women's groups cannot be happy with Larry Summer's appointment. If you're wondering why, looking into why he was forced out of Harvard.

And Hillary for Secretary of State? I think this is a bad choice. This is not because of her ability. I have no idea what to expect from her. One problem Bush had was that his own State Department constantly stabbed him in the back by leaking all sorts of information. Even Powell himself appears to have left numerous people twisting in the wind during the Plame scandal as there was evidence he knew the leaker from almost the very beginning.

If Hillary really still wants to be President then she has a vested interest in seeing him fail. She will not be the 2012 nominee if he does well and the State Department is no longer the next in line (this used to be true). Typically, its the VP (though I doubt Biden has a chance if he remains should Obama be reelected given his presidential track record). As President, Obama has to count on her loyalty and if she still has bitter feelings about the campaign or strong desires at the Whitehouse, I'm not sure he can count on that. Second, this comes across as a total throw her a bone situation. Basically, as one giant I'm sorry for the VP snub.

#60 Illmatic

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:34 PM

LMAO "Here comes the change"!

That episode was great, having the Obama Supporters act like drunk college kids, and McCain Supporters were panicking and trying to get in a bomb shelter fearing the end of the world laugh.gif


Some need to understand Obama isnt gonna walk on water or perform miracles, I voted for him since I think hes the guy for the job, those who think he's some messiah are going to be disappointed, his term wont be perfect, he's human. unfortunately as soon as something negative occurs some will say OMG I TOLDZ YA OBAMA IS BADZ.

However I think everyone knows he'll have to deal with his of share trials, and that he'll do what he feels is best. I have faith in him, but not some exaggerated belief.

Edited by Illmatic, 26 November 2008 - 10:35 PM.





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