31566 replies to this topic

[DrK]

And when you consider how stuff like older shows like Death Note, Cowboy Bebop, Gundam and Fullmetal Alchemist continue to attract new viewers and inspire debate other than "what went wrong?", it represents how much of a fad ninja boy actually was.

It does inspire debate like that but with topics such as "Kakashi - the most misunderstood character" they're exposing themselves and not anything interesting about the story

[RulesofNature]

@James

What they (those rabid fanatics) says to me is that Sakura is abusive to Naruto , shes always hitting him , she is violent toward Naruto. This is their main generic excuses , except that well you know , shes flat chest , useless , etc.

 

Talking or having a debate with these rabid fanatic is stupid. It's like having a debate with an uneducated person , at the end of the debate they gonna use parental insult and bring and insult your parent because they know they losing and they running out of idea. When they say that Hinata deserve Naruto more , it's not their brain that speaking , it's their pe**s that speaking. They self insert them self into Naruto , and then it become what they want not what Naruto want. The evidence is , just take a look at boruto now , many of their fans hate Naruto for what hes done to his son. They said that we need to respect kishimoto and his work and let him do what he want (when the ending chapter 700 roll) , well they should say that word in front of a mirror to themselves!! They are the one that making the rules that we should respect and let Kishi do the work but now they hate borutos dad for ignoring his brat! They are the one that broke the rule! . To me that's proof that these fanatic never even ONCE care about Naruto as character and his will or desire. And at the end of the day it's just like you said everyone not just the fanatic staff inside SP , it's rabid fan also somehow able to alter the ending (congratz to sawyer and forneverworld).

 

Never mind Hinata's infactuation with Naruto essentially is her infantalizing him, never seeing what he's truly capable of or believing in him while believing she has to protect him. You know from Pein or Boruto's issues with him. Basically, she doesn't treat him like an adult, she treats him like a mommy. A mommy he has sex with... My mind just went to a dark place.

[DrK]

 

Never mind Hinata's infactuation with Naruto essentially is her infantalizing him, never seeing what he's truly capable of or believing in him while believing she has to protect him. You know from Pein or Boruto's issues with him. Basically, she doesn't treat him like an adult, she treats him like a mommy. A mommy he has sex with... My mind just went to a dark place.

I mean there are a ridiculous number of fanfics where Hinata just moves on to sleeping with Boruto and I don't feel this is coincidental because the framework of her emotional attachment to Naruto was so inappropriate to begin with. She really is just kittening weird. Naruto would never have chosen to be with her.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

I mean there are a ridiculous number of fanfics where Hinata just moves on to sleeping with Boruto and I don't feel this is coincidental because the framework of her emotional attachment to Naruto was so inappropriate to begin with. She really is just kittening weird. Naruto would never have chosen to be with her.

It only makes SD Rock Lee's mocking of her character all the more reality than mere comedy...

[KClaws_2]

I know I have already commented on this post before, but after rereading it I have more i'd like to add. What is truly the greatest realization is the fact that it seems like Kishimoto didn't seem to care enough.

I am wanting to be an author as well. I want to write books and make money where people can read and be inspired. That means I put my heart and even soul into it. Not that I don't make mistakes, but rather if I do, i want to fix them or even try to improve upon them. This is where to me Kishimoto has failed. Yes, maybe we did give him too much credit, but did he not care at all about this series? If he was bad at writing romance, why not try to learn and improve? If he was bad at writing females, why continue to make female characters prevalent in the series? He could have asked his wife, his family, anyone he was close to to do research and make the writing better. Why didn't he do that? This is where I question a lot about Kishimoto as a person.

To go even farther, why was his editors and such seem so adamant that the story had to be written the way they wanted it to be written rather than to improve what Kishimoto wanted to do? Why were these people so selfish to push their own agenda of Hinata and not say improve on the real bad aspect of the story? Instead, they made it all worse and then look all surprised when people abandoned it in droves.

I think this is what really gets me. Why were they so blind to the real issues and didn't focus on improving them and instead pushing their own agenda of pairings?

The worst of it these same people who push for aspects such as SS and NH being canon, Hinata having more screen time, and other such trivial and stupid things that have nothing to do with the overall plot also complain when other characters get left in the dust or get regressed back into their former selves despite the development they went through. Mainly, Sakura. She gets so much hate for the stuff she is or does, but never realize that all the things they hate about her are the thing that were caused by them in the first place. The reason why she is so obsessed with Sasuke? Because they wouldn't let her be with anyone else, but him. "SS HAD to be canon" they screamed while also say "We hate Sakura because she is too selfish." Well, if they only let her move on and be with Naruto then that would not be a problem now would it? They wanted her to have more powers or more to do, but then complain when she takes up panel time. The double standard is so strong.

What is with this new social mentality where even if you give people exactly what they want they are not happy? They want Sakura to be with Sasuke, but they also want her to not be obsessed with him all the while saying that Hinata needs to be more obsessed with Naruto and that Naruto needs to get over Sakura because he needs to accept that she doesn't love him even though Naruto doesn't love Hinata? Do they not even realize the huge conundrum they are saying? It is mind boggling and I can't get my head around it.

They still have never answered my question totally. "What was wrong with Sakura and Naruto being a couple?" I can give an entire list on why NH and SS are bad pairings and they have nothing to do with my personal feelings, but they can't give me any reason beyond "I don't like them together" or "Hinata deserves Naruto cause she was loyal to him since the beginning."

I know I beat the Kobiyashi interview like a dead horse at this point, but it really feels like Kishimoto had no idea what he was doing. He got into manga not to tell a story, but to make a popular franchise. Hence why a lot of his original plans were thrown out altogether before publication. His editors just said no, and he just said "Okay." Even Yahigi warned him he was way too agreeable and should stand up more for what he wanted. I imagine he had no plans for the romantic subplot, he just figured his editors would tell him what to do at the end. Unfortunately towards the end, it seemed he got conflicting directions ( I heard he went through a LOT of editors after Yahigi left) and by the time he reached a conclusion, he just made things worse.

I understand storytelling of all kinds is often a team effort with various input, but there has to be a cohesive direction moving it to an agreed upon goal. 

 

 

Not to mention, shows such as this usually tend to create the most vocal critics out of their former fans. From my experiences, the guys who hate the Cosmic Era of Gundam the most are former SEED-fans upset over what Destiny did. Star Wars fans are the most upset about The Last Jedi. It's like that for any show that goes bad. When I was younger I was into House and Dexter, now I'd be unable to watch reruns and ditched my DVDs. Naruto itself has a bucket load of problems, and who cares more about those problems: the guys who never watched/read it since it was "shonen garbage" or the people who took the time to invest in the series?

 

People know it's not a high quality series, and disgrunted fans are the ones who can most accurately explain why. The fact that the show's popularity has declined over various major issues (over-reliance on filler, talk no jutsu, characters pulling crap out of their asses, shipping wars within the community, the ending.) only serves to highlight why it's mid-tier anime at best. And when you consider how stuff like older shows like Death Note, Cowboy Bebop, Gundam and Fullmetal Alchemist continue to attract new viewers and inspire debate other than "what went wrong?", it represents how much of a fad ninja boy actually was.

I went through the same thing with SEED. I wasn't a SUPER fan of the first SEED series, mind you, but I liked it well enough. I thought the beginning of SEED Destiny was incredible, and for the first half was hyped with what I saw. Then after Athrun defected from ZAFT (again) it took a nosedive. For a while I didn't want there to be another Gundam series again just because I didn't want to go through that again.

 

And yeah, whether hard core fans admit it or not, the series has declined. The filler already killed my interest in the anime long before the war arc (and how they got away with making SO MUCH I will never understand), Naruto's talk no jutsu went from idealistic to laughable, and I think the shipping war just soured the experience for many. Didn't help that Kishimoto admitted to making NaruSaku a red herring; even a lot of people okay with the outcome admitted that was a kitten thing for him to do.

 

I put it best in one of my ravings in a fanfic: The Naruto franchise is just there. It's really not making anymore waves, those who have vowed to stick with it are doing so while so many others are losing interest and never coming back.

 

 

Never mind Hinata's infactuation with Naruto essentially is her infantalizing him, never seeing what he's truly capable of or believing in him while believing she has to protect him. You know from Pein or Boruto's issues with him. Basically, she doesn't treat him like an adult, she treats him like a mommy. A mommy he has sex with... My mind just went to a dark place.

Going across a hentai site, I think I saw a bumper that had Boruto next to HInata with a rather...flushed face, if you get what I mean. Apparently this is Double4anime's real fetish.

[dl316bh]

I know I beat the Kobiyashi interview like a dead horse at this point, but it really feels like Kishimoto had no idea what he was doing. He got into manga not to tell a story, but to make a popular franchise. Hence why a lot of his original plans were thrown out altogether before publication. His editors just said no, and he just said "Okay." Even Yahigi warned him he was way too agreeable and should stand up more for what he wanted. I imagine he had no plans for the romantic subplot, he just figured his editors would tell him what to do at the end. Unfortunately towards the end, it seemed he got conflicting directions ( I heard he went through a LOT of editors after Yahigi left) and by the time he reached a conclusion, he just made things worse.

I understand storytelling of all kinds is often a team effort with various input, but there has to be a cohesive direction moving it to an agreed upon goal.

 

Wait, really? I haven't paid attention to a single thing regarding Naruto in years, so I've missed all this. Like, he legitimately admits he had no idea what he was doing, was just out to make a popular franchise and just did whatever the editors said?

 

Because if that's legit and it's not just being assumed that's what happened, that honestly explains literally everything, including the fact the kittening series couldn't decide on an actual antagonist to save its life.

Edited by dl316bh, 01 December 2018 - 06:50 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Wait, really? I haven't paid attention to a single thing regarding Naruto in years, so I've missed all this. Like, he legitimately admits he had no idea what he was doing, was just out to make a popular franchise and just did whatever the editors said?

 

Because if that's legit and it's not just being assumed that's what happened, that honestly explains literally everything, including the fact the kittening series couldn't decide on an actual antagonist to save its life.

In an interview that came out closely after the ending, and the last. Kishimoto admitted a lot of Naruto was based of suggestions of his first editor Yahagi (who was his editor from the beginning to right until the pein arc.) People here tend to over exaggerate how much was his doing until everything good was simply his idea. I still hold that he gave Kishimoto suggestions, and it was still up to kishi to write & create it with his guidance, and approval of the final product. He is the one that suggested Naruto needed a rival, he suggested the chunin exam happen after the wave arc, the creation of a villain during the chunin exam (orochimaru,) and to end the exam early with a game changing battle. At the very least.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 01 December 2018 - 07:43 PM.

[dl316bh]

If people equate everything good to him then yeah, they're way over-exaggerating. The period from Sasuke icing Orochimaru through Konohas resurrection is where I became increasingly pissed off at the series, eventually abandoning it. So Naruto was in the toilet even before he left.

 

Haha. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That explains a lot. Holy kitten.

[Bail o' Lies]

If people equate everything good to him then yeah, they're way over-exaggerating. The period from Sasuke icing Orochimaru through Konohas resurrection is where I became increasingly pissed off at the series, eventually abandoning it. So Naruto was in the toilet even before he left.

 

Haha. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That explains a lot. Holy kitten.

The problem was his replacement was apparently a huge Hinata fan that during the pein arc pushed for her big fight with Pein -even cutting Tsunade's fight for it- then trying to proclaim that Hinata was now the heroine because of it. Kishimoto thought that was absurd and opposed it, got the other mangaka to back him, and then the editors started using American letters to try to pressure him to change it because it what the fans want.

 

Also the chunin exam happening so soon that it limited the time to develop team 7, and like you said he was the editor for the hunt for itachi arc. He was still the editor during Obito's speech to Sasuke about the truth of Itachi. So yes, the fall of Naruto start to happen as he left as the last thing he was involved with consumed the plot. Then his replacement began what would destroy the both Kishi's, and Naruto's reputation.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 01 December 2018 - 09:01 PM.

[RulesofNature]

I mean there are a ridiculous number of fanfics where Hinata just moves on to sleeping with Boruto and I don't feel this is coincidental because the framework of her emotional attachment to Naruto was so inappropriate to begin with. She really is just kittening weird. Naruto would never have chosen to be with her.

 

Naruto the Last is basically Hinata replacing Kushina as Naruto's mother, isn't it? Would explain her being upset at the scarf, or him being guilt tripped into doing what Hinata wants.

Edited by RulesofNature, 01 December 2018 - 10:20 PM.

[KClaws_2]

 

Wait, really? I haven't paid attention to a single thing regarding Naruto in years, so I've missed all this. Like, he legitimately admits he had no idea what he was doing, was just out to make a popular franchise and just did whatever the editors said?

 

Because if that's legit and it's not just being assumed that's what happened, that honestly explains literally everything, including the fact the kittening series couldn't decide on an actual antagonist to save its life.

I think I should probably clarifiy this. This is based off an interview with Kishimoto that took place shortly after the Boruto movie was released. I believe it got into the creative process, and Kishimoto first mentioned the pilot, where Naruto was an old man making ramen (Kyuubi was in it in some capacity); Yahigi thought it was dumb and put in the ninja, therefore the very premise of Naruto was never his idea. He went on about how originally it would have just been Naruto and Kakashi; Yahigi again suggested a rival (Sasuke) and a love interest (Sakura...or also Sasuke, depending on how you view things). Kishimoto originally wanted several small arcs with missions (I will agree with him on this one), but Yahigi again suggested the chunin exam arc to up the popularity and add several new characters at once. Kishimoto also admitted having trouble coming up with a villain, and guess whose idea it was to put in Orochimaru? Here's a hint: it starts with a Y. He also suggested Jiraya, and I assume Tsunade, to the series. The timeskip was also his idea.

 

So, I won't say it was a full list of "his idea, not mine", but when you see that pattern, it can't be a coincidence.

 

The revelation from this interview hurt me a lot more than the outcome of the canon pairings. It's one thing when a writer makes a kitten ending to a series, but it's another when you learn nothing about the series that made it special was even their idea. As you said, it was a house of cards that was going to fall at any time. 

It also explains why we haven't heard from his Sci-Fi manga. None of the other editors were as generous as Yahigi; most may suggest ways tot make the story better or more marketable, but Yahigi practically wrote the damn thing for a long time. From what I understand, Kishimoto pitched several series during the war arc, but none were picked up. 

He doesn't have the excuse of being too busy with Boruto. The current creative team just asks him "Is this okay?" and he approves it or not. He gave the current artist full reign on Sarada's...interesting clothes, and it's Ikemoto who oversees the anime. It feels like he's not doing his own thing right now because he literally can't find work anywhere else. 

Meanwhile, you have Hiro Mashima who finished Fairy Tail only a year ago. While some may have been disappointed by the ending, it was certainly less controversial than Naruto's was. He's currently working on Eden's Zero, AND he's overseeing several Fairy Tail spin-offs.

RulesofNature said this somewhere before, but given his time on Naruto, Kishimoto should be considered a veteran in the industry, not some new author who may or may not pan out; his lack of new work since the end of Naruto seems like a red flag that something went wrong with his planned project.

 

 

Naruto the Last is basically Hinata replacing Kushina as Naruto's mother, isn't it? Would explain her being upset at the scarf, or him being guilt tripped into doing what Hinata wants.

There was a mock review on Tumblr (a kind of Q&A) about the Last, and around the genjutsu scene the guy mentions that they make Sakura like Kushina by making her more of a mother figure to Naruto instead of the girlfriend Kushina wanted him to find.

[Bail o' Lies]

It is not Ikemoto that oversees the anime, its the other one that does the writer Kodachi.

 

"According to Mr. Taguchi, Kodachi himself is responsible for the screenplay of the anime. "There are six or seven screenwriters, supervised by Ukyo Kodachi. They create alternative stories and submit them to the Kodachi, if strong scenes happen that could dramatically change the characterization of the characters, e.g if Boruto had to kill someone, Kodachi comes into play to monitor everything."

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 02 December 2018 - 08:04 AM.

[KClaws_2]

Ah, my bad. I constantly mix up the two...mostly because I don't care about them.

[dl316bh]

The revelation from this interview hurt me a lot more than the outcome of the canon pairings. It's one thing when a writer makes a kitten ending to a series, but it's another when you learn nothing about the series that made it special was even their idea. As you said, it was a house of cards that was going to fall at any time.

 

Yeah, wow, that kind of explains everything. And makes the time I spent, once upon a time, thinking about and analyzing the manga here and in general just seem downright silly. It explains the heaping gaps in logic and story progression, it explains the mangas tendency to cycle through main antagonists that never amount to anything, it explains the long diversions and lengthy arcs away from the protagonist, it explains all the problems, really. The creator of the whole thing wasn't even the driving force behind any of what worked, had no idea what he was doing and couldn't come up with much of interest outside of what was suggested by editors.

 

That's also a little depressing because it turns the series success from a story of a creator with a vision or at the very least a knowledge of how to tell an interesting story into a series designed from the start by committee to be a success that lucked into becoming a worldwide phenomenon. It casts a shadow on any bit of it that was worth liking. Like, pairings don't even matter to me at that point.

Edited by dl316bh, 02 December 2018 - 05:57 PM.

[Phantom_999]

In an interview that came out closely after the ending, and the last. Kishimoto admitted a lot of Naruto was based of suggestions of his first editor Yahagi (who was his editor from the beginning to right until the pein arc.) People here tend to over exaggerate how much was his doing until everything good was simply his idea. I still hold that he gave Kishimoto suggestions, and it was still up to kishi to write & create it with his guidance, and approval of the final product. He is the one that suggested Naruto needed a rival, he suggested the chunin exam happen after the wave arc, the creation of a villain during the chunin exam (orochimaru,) and to end the exam early with a game changing battle. At the very least.

 

Well yes it is exaggerated at how "everything good" about Naruto came from Yahagi but Ultimately no one here can deny that Kishimoto worked together the best with Yahagi and at least WITH Yahagi there was not unfair biases. There was no "Hinata wanking" there was no reincarnation BS, there was no Kishi switching editors every couple of weeks if not months and playing "yes-man" to all of them to the point the story does not even know what the "eff" it was trying to say or portray anymore. So yes a lot of us may be giving Yahagi too much credit since it is Kishi that is too gullible and influential to stand up for what he wants to write ultimately, but at least Yahagi gave him the most clarity of what he wants to write and was the ONLY editor that was not steering him towards some editor's personal agenda to promote what the editor wants to write and whom the editor wants as a main or relevant character   

Edited by Phantom_999, 02 December 2018 - 06:10 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Well yes it is exaggerated at how "everything good" about Naruto came from Yahagi but Ultimately no one here can deny that Kishimoto worked together the best with Yahagi and at least WITH Yahagi there was not unfair biases. There was no "Hinata wanking" there was no reincarnation BS, there was no Kishi switching editors every couple of weeks if not months and playing "yes-man" to all of them to the point the story does not even know what the "eff" it was trying to say or portray anymore. So yes a lot of us may be giving Yahagi too much credit since it is Kishi that is too gullible and influential to stand up for what he wants to write ultimately, but at least Yahagi gave him the most clarity of what he wants to write and was the ONLY editor that was not steering him towards some editor's personal agenda to promote what the editor wants to write and whom the editor wants as a main or relevant character   

Actually, I remember watching a youtube reviewer....well maybe last year about a video he did years before the ending. What stick out to me was he mention that kishimoto was getting another new editor. He goes on to say that this was constantly happening, and Kishimoto was constantly getting in fights with his editors at the time. Again it took years to wear him down into doing what they wanted. I still think that's mainly due to his father's passing, and a desire to do something else with his life along with some executive ideas.

 

Naruto did not instantly collapse after Yahagi left. It slowly eroded over time during the war arc. Kishimoto is an above average writer that got a lucky, he is not an complete idiot that has no clue how to write. The war arc due to the constantly changing editors was held up by him. Even the Salad giaden still felt like reading Naruto. He was the writer of Naruto from the beginning, but yes it was yahagi that came up with a lot of ideas the he then made kishi write. Some good. Some bad.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 02 December 2018 - 07:22 PM.

[dl316bh]

Naruto did not instantly collapse after Yahagi left. It slowly eroded over time during the war arc. Kishimoto is an above average writer that got a lucky, he is not an complete idiot that has no clue how to write.

 

If I have my timelines right, it was collapsing inward a good bit before he left, so it's not even like that guy kept the manga running smoothly his entire tenure either. As for Kishimoto, I would say he's average, at best. He has a strength in writing characters and worldbuilding - or he did, at one point - but he clearly has struggles with basic long term plotting, something that's even more in focus if everything you guys are telling me is correct. Like, I don't want to call him outright bad because he completely screwed the pooch on the back half of an eight hundred some odd chapter behemoth that went on over a decade, but I've read a lot of manga and American comics - especially since I stopped reading Naruto - and I wouldn't even feel comfortable calling him slightly above average.

[Bail o' Lies]

If I have my timelines right, it was collapsing inward a good bit before he left, so it's not even like that guy kept the manga running smoothly his entire tenure either. As for Kishimoto, I would say he's average, at best. He has a strength in writing characters and worldbuilding - or he did, at one point - but he clearly has struggles with basic long term plotting, something that's even more in focus if everything you guys are telling me is correct. Like, I don't want to call him outright bad because he completely screwed the pooch on the back half of an eight hundred some odd chapter behemoth that went on over a decade, but I've read a lot of manga and American comics - especially since I stopped reading Naruto - and I wouldn't even feel comfortable calling him slightly above average.

I must have either read worst writers, or not many high quality because he is above average to me -6-7- (his replacement is at best an average writer.) He is good at introducing a characters, and in single arcs. But he has problems with long overarching story-line; which Naruto is.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 02 December 2018 - 08:38 PM.

[DrK]

I must have either read worst writers, or not many high quality because he is above average to me -6-7- (his replacement is at best an average writer.) He is good at introducing a characters, and in single arcs. But he has problems with long overarching story-line; which Naruto is.

He's good enough... I mean you can have someone like Toriyama who doesn't plan ahead at all and also fetishizes certain aspects to the detriment of everything else and still managed to write a good story that is close to a lot of people's hearts. Kishimoto would have done alright if those editors didn't take advantage of how spineless he was or if Yahagi just didn't leave.

[Phantom_999]

Actually, I remember watching a youtube reviewer....well maybe last year about a video he did years before the ending. What stick out to me was he mention that kishimoto was getting another new editor. He goes on to say that this was constantly happening, and Kishimoto was constantly getting in fights with his editors at the time. Again it took years to wear him down into doing what they wanted. I still think that's mainly due to his father's passing, and a desire to do something else with his life along with some executive ideas.

 

Naruto did not instantly collapse after Yahagi left. It slowly eroded over time during the war arc. Kishimoto is an above average writer that got a lucky, he is not an complete idiot that has no clue how to write. The war arc due to the constantly changing editors was held up by him. Even the Salad giaden still felt like reading Naruto. He was the writer of Naruto from the beginning, but yes it was yahagi that came up with a lot of ideas the he then made kishi write. Some good. Some bad.

 

Yeah I know, Naruto did not collapse immediately, it was a slow painful process that none of us were expecting. It only hit when the last 10 chapters came about. I think nothing was wrong with Kishi's writing ability, I call him out for not STICKING UP for what he wanted to write, all the way til the end, especially after his father's passing. Also, while he is not incompetent there are issues that on what he was writing and why he was writing them. for instance why make Sasuke such a prevalent character and bump him up to deuteragonist when Sasuke was never even his idea? why make Sasuke the most important thing in Naruto's life to the exclusion of all others when it is supposed to be about bonds with others in general. Why make Make Sasuke so important to the story that Naruto's goal must foil and reflect his even if it derails Naruto's character and is detrimental to it? And that is just one aspect that boggles my mind.

 

He states he is not good at romance, yet NaruSaku and all their parallel relationships seem perfectly acceptable and realistic relationships and romances to me, then he shoots himself in the foot by calling them all "red herrings". He wanted to incorporate "forgiveness and not holding onto hatred" as a theme yet it was so poorly executed because of some factors, such as giving all villains not dead at that point some hamfisted shallow SOB STORY that destroys their character motivations just to make them seem sympathetic when it is not believable or even makes that villain look better. And why is it that Naruto and Sasuke should be the only one to overcome hatred when ALL the world experiences it? Why can't overcoming hatred be extended to all characters and be used to mend the relationships between nations for instance to stop international conflicts?

 

Ultimately Kishi wrote himself into a box if you ask me because all he gave a kitten about was Naruto and Sasuke to the exclusion of all other characters in the story and how they would impact the world he built. he worried too much about Naruto and Sasuke and their "destined fight" that he didn't even give a kittening thought about any other character or how they can flesh out his series more 

Edited by Phantom_999, 03 December 2018 - 08:16 PM.