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Is Naruto the Last the worst movie?


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Poll: Worst movie ever (65 member(s) have cast votes)

Worst movie

  1. HELL YES IT IS!! (17 votes [26.15%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 26.15%

  2. In my top 5 (7 votes [10.77%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.77%

  3. Worst Naruto film (26 votes [40.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.00%

  4. Ehh it was okay (2 votes [3.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.08%

  5. Never seen it. (13 votes [20.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

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#21 James S Cassidy

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 02:18 AM

Guys....

 

I'm very confused. 

 

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

 

I know it's waaaaay old news, and I don't want to bring back any ill feelings for anyone, but... I ventured to watch Naruto the Last movie.

 

And as a movie, on it's own, with no prior knowledge to the series. It's a good anime movie with good art and animation. The cuts between the past and the present when thickly layering on NaruHina are actually really well directed.

 

Shipping wars aside, it's also a really good Naruto movie. I actually liked the movie a lot. And now... I run away!

 

200.gif

 

 

But...

 

giphy.gif

 

Vash = Narusaku me

Kaite = Me

 

I know they used this movie to fill in a lot of holes between the Naruto and Hinata relationship, but I was never fully against it and I didn't think it was an impossible outcome. And yes, the explanation for why Naruto loved Sakura were complete and utter BS, and yes Sakura choosing to love Sasuke still is BS. But again, on the merits of a movie on it's own and even looking at it without shipping bias, as another Naruto movie, this is a good one. 

If it was a standalone, Elseworlds, kind of story that you didn't need to read the manga to understand...then yeah, fine...it is an okay film. It's the fact that this is supposed to complete the 15 year story and it does a RIDICULOUSLY bad job at finishing it.

The worse part is is when people say "the manga is self-explanatory," but then say this movie was necessary. No. The the fact that movie is supposed to continue and already existing story and CONTRADICTS everything is what makes it bad. It was supposed to answer question and instead raised more and with that being said...why is this even a movie anyway? Shouldn't this all be in the manga instead? If this was "planned from the start" why even need it?

I could say Road to Ninja is more canon than this movie if that is the case "without shipping bias". If it made by Kishimoto then it must be canon.

"But again, on the merits of a movie on it's own and even looking at it without shipping bias, as another Naruto movie, this is a good one."

Without shipping bias, this movie would be sub-par at best with a childish love story that makes Twilight look better. And that is saying something. You can't sit here and say "without shipping bias" and not assuming that is doesn't work the other way around. Naruto looks like he is brainwashed and forced into loving HInata, the villain's motives are stupid and his existence is only meant to push Naruto even more into guilt tripping (to which his existence before or after Kaguya arrived is never explain), the characters are saying things that their core would never say, and I feel insulted when they characters are basically trying to tell Naruto how he should feel instead of letting him decide for himself.

Naruto was nothing more than a puppet in this film. Not a character. Everything he thought, felt, and did was because someone else told him to do it or forced him. That's not love.

Juliet didn't guilt trip Romeo into loving her. Lois Lane didn't guilt trip Superman into loving her. I have never seen a love story this shallow and disgusting before where the guy had to be brainwashed into loving the girl. And let's be honest, a genjutsu is brainwashing. They use it to brainwash people all the time in the series. Forced aspects to make people see what they want to.

And this isn't even mentioning things like Naruto fighting and BREATHING in space, why Hinata is the "chosen one" and not say any other random Hyuga girl or even Hanabi, why Sasuke the second most powerful ninja in the world doesn't help Naruto fight Toneri one little bit....and so many other questions that just plague the mind of common sense.

Seriously, why didn't Sasuke help? Why wasn't he the first one to go next to Naruto and help fight? Maybe because Naruto would have been more interested in Sasuke than Hinata. There is no real reason why he didn't go.

For a movie entitled "Naruto the movie," it was less about Naruto and more about Hinata and her scarf-kun.

"The only reason why this movie is seen as good is because of shipping bias. Without the shipping bias, this movie is really bad."

This is just as true of a statement.

 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 August 2015 - 02:34 AM.

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#22 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 02:42 AM

Oh yes they are.

I guess you have to hit the most crucial market. If you ask me, that's why The Last didn't work because they probably thought it was for them but they denied it. Western, well they're cool with it. As of now, well you know already. I do wonder for USA audience. Ah well. In the end of the day, you just have to see it yourself.

#23 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 02:55 AM

Ah, the creator spoken once again and acknowledge the changes to the movies, as well as acknowledging that he is a bit selfish to ask them to watch it still for him to learn the criticism. He also aware that he was going to hear different opinions. At least he's more tolerable. I heard the movie director went to irate with them. The creator at least is more kind and acknowledge the outcome. Man, I wonder what is the problem.

#24 rocci

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 03:03 AM

Ah, the creator spoken once again and acknowledge the changes to the movies, as well as acknowledging that he is a bit selfish to ask them to watch it still for him to learn the criticism. He also aware that he was going to hear different opinions. At least he's more tolerable. I heard the movie director went to irate with them. The creator at least is more kind and acknowledge the outcome. Man, I wonder what is the problem.

Does the movie use zombie movie aproach?

#25 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 03:04 AM

Does the movie use zombie movie aproach?

I really have no idea. I didn't even know that Levi wasn't in it. I'm 100% clueless.

#26 chouzu_tao

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 04:58 AM

 

 

The problem with the last is that it's canon. It had a high production value, so it looks better, has better music than the other movies,etc...but the story is a mess, especially when you consider it being canon, it retcons Naruto's character and his abilities, makes Hinata into an even more pathetic version of herself and shows us ridiculous scenes like the one in the genjutsu thingy where Hinata's scarf gains life and chokes Naruto for a whatever reason, managing to take him in a guilt trip. Ridiculous scenes like this one not only made 0 sense ( since the genjutsu was supposed to trap a person in their own memories or something like that ), but also trashed NH because prior to these things Naruto didn't actually loved Hinata prior the genjutsu thingy

 

I guess I'd need more information on Naruto's character and abilities, that you feel are retconned. I'll give you the kage bunshin but that's not a deal breaker for me.

 

How did they make Hinata pathetic?

 

As far as the scarf thing goes. I personally think the scarf reaching out to Naruto was more a visual metaphor for love and the red thread that is starting to connect them. Just as the scarf is described later as a metaphor for Hinata's love for Naruto. Also, Naruto never chokes, so I wouldn't call it "choking him."Remember, in film, not every visual is meant to be taken literally. At the end they show them holding hands at different ages. That doesn't mean they're actually de- and re-aging. 

 

The genjutsu itself is a memories trap, but Shikamaru also described it as a trap of "caged" memories. Naruto may not have always known. He isn't a dolt but he isn't super perceptive of everything outside of ninjutsu skills. Also, we didn't just look into Naruto's memories, but they also showed Hinata's memories. Showing us both their memories separately. Again, I was never 100% anti-NaruHina so this is more agreeable for me. I've known plenty of friends who have gotten together after one who was completely oblivious to the other's feelings for them suddenly figures it out.

 

There is no factual evidence that shows Naruto absolutely did not love Hinata. It is never stated. All implications for or against NaruHina are purely subjective. That Naruto admits  that he has feelings for Hinata is what cements or disregards any romantic moments in the manga.

 

 

As a standalone though I would als argue it's pretty bad either way....the romantic moments are pretty cringeworthy, the villain is pointless and stupid, the plot is horrible and uninteresting and feels like a filler story and Naruto just isn't Naruto

 

Are the romantic moments cringeworthy because they are or because you don't like NaruHina?

 

 

Naruto able to use kage bushin before he learns it from the secret scroll in chapter one. +1 but this is forgivable to me
Naruto is emotional idiot who can't make different between Hinata love and love to ramen. Do you mean emotional idiot who doesn't understand love or is not perceptvie of it? This is a popular trope of a lot of romance/action/humor anime. It's often done for humor. It didn't irk me.

It's actually matter. There are reason Rtn is one of the worst naruto movie in term of animation quality. And that's because they make it from start since it replace the suppose movie, the chikara arc.
Animation need time to make.

 

Time does not always equate better quality. They could've gotten the crappy team of animators and regardless of time it wouldn't have been as good. I have nothing against the quality of RtN, I just think this one has some of the best in the movie series. And it isn't just the animation/ art style. It's the amount of time they linger on some shots without dialogue, its the sequences they blend together (I liked how the genjutsu/ memory trap was sequenced)

 

 

--Naruto knowing kage bushin at an early age Agreed

--Naruto being an idiot regarding his own emotions Idiot how?

--Hinata's character inconsistency with her last development from the manga Could you be more specific?

--Naruto giving up on a friend and on the entire world because of a rejection....when Sasuke rejected his friendship offer back in part 1, what did he do? Gave up? No he said he'd rather be a fool than give up on Sasuke...yet in the movie he sulks and is glad to let the world end because Hinata ambiguously rejected him  lol

 

People are multi-faceted. He was out for 3 days and then sulked for a day or two. I hardly call that a long time, especially for someone who finally admits to being in love with someone in person, and then having them leave, all in the span of a few minutes. He isn't a person made of stone who just keeps moving forward all the time. He gets hurt and that can take time to deal with. When he first caught up with Sasuke at Orochimaru's hide out post time-skip both he and Sakura had a breakdown, without further pursuit. Sai snapped them out of it. Different situations hurt differently and take more or less time based on the depth they feel about it. Unlike most of the losses he suffered in the manga, he can't just beat up someone and have his way when Hinata chooses to go with Toneri.

 

--The whole you loved me because of rivalry thing, which paints Naruto's character as a scumbag who was using Sakura to one up Sasuke since the beginning This I agree is complete BS which in turn makes Sakura's thoughts about Naruto in chapter 3 the right interpretation of his character In the version I read she states he's always getting in the way when she does something important, enjoys seeing her struggle, doesn't understand anything about her and is annoying. I don't think this makes any of that true.

--Konohamaru having blue eyes This makes the movie bad?

 

 

And they wouldn't have crappy animation, they were working on this project for two whole years

 

I don't understand why this is a point of contention with people who don't like the movie. I'm just stating it has good animation/ art. So what if it had two years? That doesn't take away from the fact that it is good and that it is some of the best in the series of Naruto films. Who knows if the other ones could've been better. The point is that they aren't all better and I enjoy the one in this one because I think it's good.

 

If it was a standalone, Elseworlds, kind of story that you didn't need to read the manga to understand...then yeah, fine...it is an okay film. It's the fact that this is supposed to complete the 15 year story and it does a RIDICULOUSLY bad job at finishing it. It doesn't complete it. It's the precursor to the ending that is in the manga.

 

The worse part is is when people say "the manga is self-explanatory," but then say this movie was necessary. No. The the fact that movie is supposed to continue and already existing story and CONTRADICTS everything is what makes it bad. What does it contradict specifically that isn't open to interpretation?

 

It was supposed to answer question and instead raised more and with that being said...why is this even a movie anyway? Shouldn't this all be in the manga instead? If this was "planned from the start" why even need it? I didn't expect much/ have many questions about the manga towards the end so this isn't an irksome thing for me.

 

I could say Road to Ninja is more canon than this movie if that is the case "without shipping bias". If it made by Kishimoto then it must be canon. I don't understand this point. It is canon, regardless of shipping bias. I never stated it was more canon because of any shipping bias.

 

"But again, on the merits of a movie on it's own and even looking at it without shipping bias, as another Naruto movie, this is a good one."

 

Without shipping bias, this movie would be sub-par at best with a childish love story that makes Twilight look better. Childish how?

 

And that is saying something. You can't sit here and say "without shipping bias" and not assuming that is doesn't work the other way around. Naruto looks like he is brainwashed and forced into loving HInata, This is subjective. He's never forced to do anything in the movie. Again, you're talking to someone who saw some some NaruHina in the manga. So we're already standing separate on this subject to begin with.

 

the villain's motives are stupid Movie villains were very rarely great. I'd argue Toneri is one of the better ones. Doto Kazahan (find treasure/ Land of Snow); Moryo (Take over the world/Shippuden the movie); Ishidate (simple assassination/ Moon Kingdom); Haido (take over the world/ Stones of Gelel); Anrokuzan/ Mukade (take over the world/ Lost tower); Hiruko (immortality/ Will of Fire); Shinno (Zero tail power for world domination/ Bonds); Obito/ Menma (Kurama and test out Infinite Tsukuyomi, as we later find out to control the world// for chaos, to help Obito, and because he hates Kurama/ Naruto); Mui (revive his dead son/ Blood prison); Toneri (as the sole survivor of his clan, to fulfill what he believe was their last wish, destruction of the world) 

 

Look at main canon villains: 

Orochimaru - immortality

Pein - Infinite war and connecting people through pain of loss and war

Madara - power and control

Kaguya - destroy her children's legacy

 

A lot, and I mean a lot of anime movie antagonist's (who are not tied to a series) motivations, when boiled down, aren't always that interesting either. Also, a good movie isn't always dependent on a great antagonist.

 

and his existence is only meant to push Naruto even more into guilt tripping (to which his existence before or after Kaguya arrived is never explain), Kaguya and that whole thing at the end of the manga plus this is pretty ass pull but then I accept this being as plausible as those characters who just appeared at the end of the manga

 

the characters are saying things that their core would never say, Again, subjective, so we can only say that we agree or disagree on any specific points

 

and I feel insulted when they characters are basically trying to tell Naruto how he should feel instead of letting him decide for himself.

 

Naruto was nothing more than a puppet in this film. Not a character. Everything he thought, felt, and did was because someone else told him to do it or forced him. That's not love. Again, I don't feel like he was forced.

 

Juliet didn't guilt trip Romeo into loving her. Lois Lane didn't guilt trip Superman into loving her. I have never seen a love story this shallow and disgusting before where the guy had to be brainwashed into loving the girl. And let's be honest, a genjutsu is brainwashing. They use it to brainwash people all the time in the series. Forced aspects to make people see what they want to. 

 

In the movie it is described as memories/ caged memory trap, so I don't think it's entirely brainwashing. Infinite Tsukuyomi was more about making you live your wildest dream come true, more so than brainwashing. Why was Naruto the only one who's opinion was changed about anything? If this is brainwashing why would the enemy brainwash Naruto into believing he was in love with Hinata when he clearly desires her for his own? There's no benefit. On a side note, I wouldn't consider Romeo and Juliet's relationship to be anything higher than infatuation, it lasted three days and a whole bunch of people died. Not exactly stellar story to use as an analogy for an ideal romance. 

 

And this isn't even mentioning things like Naruto fighting and BREATHING in space, yep, this is odd why Hinata is the "chosen one" and not say any other random Hyuga girl or even Hanabi, Good point. I don't remember it and if there is a reason, it isn't memorable. I'll have to rematch it again to see. why Sasuke the second most powerful ninja in the world doesn't help Naruto fight Toneri one little bit.... and so many other questions that just plague the mind of common sense.

Seriously, why didn't Sasuke help? Why wasn't he the first one to go next to Naruto and help fight? Maybe because Naruto would have been more interested in Sasuke than Hinata. There is no real reason why he didn't go. Maybe he doesn't feel like he has to. That he believes Naruto can handle it on his own. It's not like his motivations have always been logical.

 

For a movie entitled "Naruto the movie," it was less about Naruto and more about Hinata and her scarf-kun. I think it was plenty about Naruto, it just had a high dose of Hinata too. The manga was a lot about Sasuke too. That doesn't make it any less about Naruto.

 

"The only reason why this movie is seen as good is because of shipping bias. Without the shipping bias, this movie is really bad." This is just as true of a statement. Don't agree. I'm wasn't super pro-NaruHina thus me being on this site. I've listed other things that I felt were good about the film, that weren't about shipping.

 

 

Hm. Reading some of the replies, I feel like I may have accidentally put my foot in my mouth. I never meant to insinuate that anyone who disliked the film only hated it because they didn't like NaruHina (although you can't fault me if I think it does play a big part for a percentage of the site based on the theme of the site itself). I apologize if I offended anyone. My point was more, I went into this movie without a strong desire to see anyone specific outcome romantically and found I enjoyed the film and feel it's a good Naruto film and regular anime film. It's my opinion, it's your opinion, you hate it I like it. It's all fine to me. 

 

Edit I had a whole section in bold, making the debate confusing so I had to change it. 

 

Edit 2"although you can't fault me if I think it does play a big part for a percentage of the site based on the theme of the site itself"

 

Edit 3 for an ideal romance. 


Edited by chouzu_tao, 13 August 2015 - 05:41 AM.

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#27 rocci

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:01 PM

@chouzo tao
It's unforgivable for me, because it's not necessary move from the movie maker. They practically kitten on the canon, which they did.

You can't use that trope for naruto.
It can work if naruto doesn't love anyone in the first place.
It just an excuse to make naruto not a douche bag that ignore a suicide confession for a girl in two years.

Time equal quality, if not the like of ghibli will produce a movie a year.


And there's no factual evidence that naruto love Hinata either.

#28 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:25 PM

It is true that if Naruto didn't love anyone in the first place, this wouldn't be that bad. That said it still be mediocre because of how it happens. The chemistry is really weak. Because of Naruto actually loved someone, the excuse they made is incredibly awful that it made no sense. Even if it was standalone, it still comes off bad unless Naruto is made to be the guy who was disgusting until The Last but it didn't. So how can we support him.

#29 rocci

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:45 PM

It is true that if Naruto didn't love anyone in the first place, this wouldn't be that bad. That said it still be mediocre because of how it happens. The chemistry is really weak. Because of Naruto actually loved someone, the excuse they made is incredibly awful that it made no sense. Even if it was standalone, it still comes off bad unless Naruto is made to be the guy who was disgusting until The Last but it didn't. So how can we support him.

You mean the genjutsu scene? Yeah, normally a romance centric movie doesn't need that. But the last is not normal, in the good way.

#30 TerrorKing

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 09:32 PM

It's impossible to divorce The Last from the rest of the series exactly because it was billed as a canon movie. It was also billed as a movie that would explain all our questions about the ending but the only it really answered was how Naruto and Hinata ended up together.

 

If you took out all the references to Naruto and renamed the movie, it might have been passable. The problem is that you can't for the exact reason I stated above.

 

We can all nitpick the little things, but the biggest problem with The Last is that's it's a romance movie. A bad romance movie. It makes Hinata look like an obsessed fangirl whose only objective in life is to get with Naruto. Forget about the clan. Forget about Hanabi. It's all about Naruto. The worst thing however is that it writes of NS as a rivalry game. Now I personally don't give a damn what someone thinks of NS, but there's no way you could look at that exchange between Naruto and Sakura and not walk away with the impression that Naruto was only using Sakura for his own personal gain.

 

I don't have anything against NH as a pairing. It's not really my style, but that's not why I dislike it. It's because it doesn't have any mutual development. The Last even proves this by basically telling us that Naruto can't distinguish between romantic love and love of food. Also when he's about to go save Hinata, the only thing he states in relation to Hinata is that she has loved someone like him forever and ever.

 

See this video? Just switch "developers" for "development" and that's my point. 


Edited by TerrorKing, 13 August 2015 - 10:34 PM.

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#31 Nar123

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 12:28 AM

1 - I guess I'd need more information on Naruto's character and abilities, that you feel are retconned. I'll give you the kage bunshin but that's not a deal breaker for me.

 

2- How did they make Hinata pathetic?

 

3- As far as the scarf thing goes. I personally think the scarf reaching out to Naruto was more a visual metaphor for love and the red thread that is starting to connect them. Just as the scarf is described later as a metaphor for Hinata's love for Naruto. Also, Naruto never chokes, so I wouldn't call it "choking him."Remember, in film, not every visual is meant to be taken literally. At the end they show them holding hands at different ages. That doesn't mean they're actually de- and re-aging. 

 

4- The genjutsu itself is a memories trap, but Shikamaru also described it as a trap of "caged" memories. Naruto may not have always known. He isn't a dolt but he isn't super perceptive of everything outside of ninjutsu skills. Also, we didn't just look into Naruto's memories, but they also showed Hinata's memories. Showing us both their memories separately. Again, I was never 100% anti-NaruHina so this is more agreeable for me. I've known plenty of friends who have gotten together after one who was completely oblivious to the other's feelings for them suddenly figures it out.

 

5- There is no factual evidence that shows Naruto absolutely did not love Hinata. It is never stated. All implications for or against NaruHina are purely subjective. That Naruto admits  that he has feelings for Hinata is what cements or disregards any romantic moments in the manga.

 

 

1 - The kage bushin is pretty a  big deal. Naruto isn't supposed to know KB at the time and yet he knows...this shows that either the staff who wrote that movie lacked communication witht he author or the author simply didn't care

There is still, Naruto somehow breathing in space without any given explanation and Kurama leaving Naruto's body for some reason and this not affecting him in any shape or form

 

2-Hinata, by the end of the war arc, had developed into someone that by her own words would "not shy away and walk by Naruto's side", now look at the beginning of the movie, does it look like that little development she had in the war arc mattered? I don't think so

Add this to the fact that in most of the movie Hinata forgets she is a ninja and looks more like some random filler princess and you get how pathetic she was

 

3-Now you are just excusing the movie....c'mon, how the hell does a scarf gaining consicousness in that situation makes sense in any shape or form? 

There is a limit in the degree of how visual metaphors can be used y' know? A lot of series can use this element in a good manner but the last just outright blew this limit with this scene alone.

 

4- caged memories = memory trap and either way, doesn't matter...there is still no explanation on why Naruto experienced Hinata's memories and was guilt tripped by them...and another thing, Naruto knew Hinata loved him, she was painfully clear during the pein arc even sacrificing herself for it, this movie says that Naruto at the time thought that her love for him was like his love for food or something like that which completely retcons Naruto's emotional knowledge, a thing that even early part '1 estabilished he had, so in manga canon no, Naruto wasn't oblivious to Hinata's feelings he just didn't returned them, but the movie changed it so because reasons and really this isn't a matter of being anti NH or not, it's a matter of being faithful to the manga as the last is a canon movie. 

Honestly not even people who like NH should like the last, the movie trashes the pairing and most of the things they argued during the manga

 

So I'm clueless of how you not hating NH in first place affects your view, if anything you should be disappointed in how the pairing was treated

 

5-Naruto never showed any kind of interest in Hinata in the manga even after her confession, in the movie he remains oblivious until a genjutsu retcons him into a guilt state and after that he begins showing interest on her. The flashbacks due to the genjutsu don't even hint on his own feelings, they just show Hinata's feelings for him during time and then he feels guilt and begins seeing her in a different light , it's ridiculous and honestly it's beyond me how can someone accept such contrived reslution of a romantic plot line 

 

 

 

6- Do you mean emotional idiot who doesn't understand love or is not perceptvie of it? This is a popular trope of a lot of romance/action/humor anime. It's often done for humor. It didn't irk me. 

 

 

 

That's the thing though. Naruto knew Hinata loved him from the manga, it's unbelievable stupid he would think otherwise even after Hinata sacrificing herself for him yet hte movie goes on and retcons this. He also isn't an emotional idiot who doesn't know what love is, his interactions with his mom, Sakura and all of his other loved ones should show this. 

Doesn't matter if it is a ppular trope or not, it wasn't done right if we consider that the last is canon ( as we should) 

 

Your main mistake is because in most of your arguments you try to consider the thing as it's own standalon which isn't the case

 

 

7 - Time does not always equate better quality. They could've gotten the crappy team of animators and regardless of time it wouldn't have been as good. I have nothing against the quality of RtN, I just think this one has some of the best in the movie series. And it isn't just the animation/ art style. It's the amount of time they linger on some shots without dialogue, its the sequences they blend together (I liked how the genjutsu/ memory trap was sequenced)

 

 

 

7-  Time does not always equate beter quality....but it helps a lot. The main problem with the animation in animes is the time limit, most people who work on the studios have to run against their schedules to make the drawings on time, that's why an anime series doesn't have the same quality as an anime movie...because people who are working on the movies have way more times on their hands to polish their animations, etc. 

 

Anyway about the last technical aspects, that's your opinion, many people found the direction messy especially in the beginning with the sudden transitions. 

For me at least they did a nice job, the animation is nice and fluid and even though the direction has some mistakes here and there, it's pretty consistent. The last main problem is the plot and how it relates to the original material

 

 

8- Idiot how? / 9- Could you be more specific?

 

 

 

8-  Naruto: "Even though she pratically sacrificed her life for me, I somehow think she loves me like  I love Ramen... even if before in the original series I showed a natural ability in indicating what other people were feeling! :zaru:

 

9- Already talked about Hinata up there

 

 

 

 

10 - People are multi-faceted. He was out for 3 days and then sulked for a day or two. I hardly call that a long time, especially for someone who finally admits to being in love with someone in person, and then having them leave, all in the span of a few minutes. He isn't a person made of stone who just keeps moving forward all the time. He gets hurt and that can take time to deal with. When he first caught up with Sasuke at Orochimaru's hide out post time-skip both he and Sakura had a breakdown, without further pursuit. Sai snapped them out of it. Different situations hurt differently and take more or less time based on the depth they feel about it. Unlike most of the losses he suffered in the manga, he can't just beat up someone and have his way when Hinata chooses to go with Toneri.

 

 

 

10- The main reason that doesn't makes sense is because it doesn't fit with his character. Naruto was a guy that always took a hit and got back up with renewed vigor. In the last the problem is not him giving up, the problem is why he gave up...because Hinata rejected him...lol

This is the guy that kept his "get Sasuke back" mantra even Sasuke blew him off multiple times, the only time he ultimately felt desperation was after learning the extent of Sasuke's crimes in the Kage Summit arc and not seeing any way out of it.  

In the last however he gets all mad and angry because the girl he began crushing on after a contrived genjutsu realization rejected him to go with the villain for no clear reason, he gives up on everything, on the world even just because of this...then he only gets better after Sakura pep talks him and assures him that Hinata returns his feelings, lol just lol 

 

If the canon naruto from the old manga was in the same situation of the last Naruto, what do you think he'd do? throw a fit like an angry man child or psych it up to get to Hinata and the Tony guy  and demand an explanation?  I understand that SP probably wanted to put something as Naruto's despair event horizon in the movie, the problem is that they did it worng, the motivations and the resolutions of the event were contrived, forced and from a cohesive point it just didn't work. The only way for someone to enjoy what happened in that scene is by forgetting from the manga and shutting of their brains 

 

There is a reason why people in japan called Naruto a scumbag because of this scene

 

11-  In the version I read she states he's always getting in the way when she does something important, enjoys seeing her struggle, doesn't understand anything about her and is annoying. I don't think this makes any of that true.

 

 

 

 

 

11- Sakura says Naruto's whole point was to annoy her and disrupt her "love" life, turns out ( considering the last) she was talking the truth because Naruto only saw her as a prize worth taking to one up his rival Sasuke

This is even kind of hypocrite of Sakura to say since her situation with Ino and Sasuke is basically about rivalry too, while Naruto never liked Sakura because of rivalry (at least in the original story without retcons)

 

 

12- This makes the movie bad?

 

 

12- No, but it is a retcon and basically shows that either 

a) Kishi didn't care

b) lack of conversation between the one who wrote the movie and Kishi

 

It also serves to show how much the last is a mess regarding the manga canon even in the little details

 

 

 

13- I don't understand why this is a point of contention with people who don't like the movie. I'm just stating it has good animation/ art. So what if it had two years? That doesn't take away from the fact that it is good and that it is some of the best in the series of Naruto films. Who knows if the other ones could've been better. The point is that they aren't all better and I enjoy the one in this one because I think it's good.

 

 

13- Nobody here is denying that the last didn''t had an acceptable animation

People are just saying that it was expected because htey had time to work on the project thus it's nothing surprising or groundbreaking in the franchise like what you're trying to say

 

And in the end the good animation doesn't save the lst of it's own shortcomings

RtN had a crappy animation and it was still a good movie with a fair decent plot exploring naruto's family, but why did it had crappy animation? Because  they had little time for RtN, since the original movie was going to be the Chikara arc, however they decided to change and go with RtN's plot instead

 

time is an essential factor when making animations, even more so than talent dare I say

 

 

14- Are the romantic moments cringeworthy because they are or because you don't like NaruHina?

 

 

14- They're awkward because they're poorly done, stupid things like Hinata falling even though she is a ninja, the spider web kitten, naruto getting water in hiuss hands for hinata to drink for some obscure reason...

the producers were clearly trying to make the moments romantic, but they failed and it looked forced and cringeworthy for anyone who is not completely blinded by the NH pairing

honestly those moments looked like they were taken off from a bad NH fanfic


Edited by Nar123, 14 August 2015 - 03:37 PM.

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#32 Nar123

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 01:17 AM

 

1-  It doesn't complete it. It's the precursor to the ending that is in the manga.

2- What does it contradict specifically that isn't open to interpretation?

3- I didn't expect much/ have many questions about the manga towards the end so this isn't an irksome thing for me.

4- I don't understand this point. It is canon, regardless of shipping bias. I never stated it was more canon because of any shipping bias.

5-Childish how?

6- This is subjective. He's never forced to do anything in the movie. Again, you're talking to someone who saw some some NaruHina in the manga. So we're already standing separate on this subject to begin with.

7-Movie villains were very rarely great. I'd argue Toneri is one of the better ones. Doto Kazahan (find treasure/ Land of Snow); Moryo (Take over the world/Shippuden the movie); Ishidate (simple assassination/ Moon Kingdom); Haido (take over the world/ Stones of Gelel); Anrokuzan/ Mukade (take over the world/ Lost tower); Hiruko (immortality/ Will of Fire); Shinno (Zero tail power for world domination/ Bonds); Obito/ Menma (Kurama and test out Infinite Tsukuyomi, as we later find out to control the world// for chaos, to help Obito, and because he hates Kurama/ Naruto); Mui (revive his dead son/ Blood prison); Toneri (as the sole survivor of his clan, to fulfill what he believe was their last wish, destruction of the world) 

 

Look at main canon villains: 

Orochimaru - immortality

Pein - Infinite war and connecting people through pain of loss and war

Madara - power and control

Kaguya - destroy her children's legacy

 

A lot, and I mean a lot of anime movie antagonist's (who are not tied to a series) motivations, when boiled down, aren't always that interesting either. Also, a good movie isn't always dependent on a great antagonist.

 

8- Again, subjective, so we can only say that we agree or disagree on any specific points

 

9- Again, I don't feel like he was forced.

 

10- In the movie it is described as memories/ caged memory trap, so I don't think it's entirely brainwashing. Infinite Tsukuyomi was more about making you live your wildest dream come true, more so than brainwashing. Why was Naruto the only one who's opinion was changed about anything? If this is brainwashing why would the enemy brainwash Naruto into believing he was in love with Hinata when he clearly desires her for his own? There's no benefit. On a side note, I wouldn't consider Romeo and Juliet's relationship to be anything higher than infatuation, it lasted three days and a whole bunch of people died. Not exactly stellar story to use as an analogy for an ideal romance. 

 

11-Kaguya and that whole thing at the end of the manga plus this is pretty ass pull but then I accept this being as plausible as those characters who just appeared at the end of the manga

 

12- Maybe he doesn't feel like he has to. That he believes Naruto can handle it on his own. It's not like his motivations have always been logical.

 

13-I think it was plenty about Naruto, it just had a high dose of Hinata too. The manga was a lot about Sasuke too. That doesn't make it any less about Naruto.

 

14- Don't agree. I'm wasn't super pro-NaruHina thus me being on this site. I've listed other things that I felt were good about the film, that weren't about shipping.

 

1- And even so, it still does quite the bad work

It's also fair to say that the ending of the manga wasn't an ending but a prologue to that next generation crap

 

 

2- Many things, but as much as people here say it all of them just don't click it up on your head, mate

 

just to name a few

-the Kage Bushin retcon

-the rivalry retcon

-Naruto's emotions knowledge retcon

-Hinata's little development shows itself meaningless

- Destiny BS with the byakugan princess contradicts one of the early plot points in the story, etc

 

 

3- Then I guess you were never that much of a fan to begin with and you weren't so invested on Naruto...don't get me wrong that's fine

But questions like: what happened to the cycle of hatred? How Naruto handled peace? Did he lived up to his promise with Jiraya back then? 

 

Questions like this were just brushed off, and there are people who liked this part of the story more than the pairing part of it, like me for example. I knew the story was already crap by the point of the war arc but by the time I got back in the fandom to see the ending arc I *at least* expected at least some kind of resolutions to these questions regarding the main plotline, instead we just got a promo for a new generaion and a  movie that made no sense

 

4- Afaik, RtN would make more sense as canon than the last even if it has some stupid things in it too like Kurama getting out of the seal 

 

5- one of the pair falls in love because of a mind rape guilt trip by a plot Mcguffin genjutsu that happened to be in the main villain's headquarters, the other part of the pair plays the typical damsel in distress ( even if by all means she shouldn't be), the moments they have after the guilt trip event are awkward and contrived, things like Hinata failing to make a jump when she is a ninja in the first place, Naruto getting water for her in his hands, why? I don't know...the authors were clearly thinking we need to make them romantic now but how? Then they made these scenes hoping a part of the public would eat the sheer nonsense that it was.

 

Tl,dr; IMO it's childish because it relies on the viewer taking the scene at face value like a child would 

 

6-Watch the guilt trip scene again and Sakura repeteadly saying "she is too good for you", " she was always watching", "she always cared ! "

Honestly I don't see how you don't see that as a way of Naruto being "forced"

 

Picture yourself in his situation, you know a girl, then suddenly you got revealed that this girl always watched and supported you ( even if that's not true in Hinata's case), then one of your friends keeps saying in your ear you should repay her feelings...wouldn't it feel like they re forcing you to love this girl ?

 

7-You know what's the difference about the other movies and the last? 

the last is canon, so Toneri stupid villain's actions are canon too and are a cursed mark in the story itself. 

By the way, a lot of other one time movie villains were better than Toneri, Menma for example just by being Naruto from the other dimension is already far more interesting than Tony could ever wish to be, it's even worse for him that he is forever linked to the worst villain in the manga

 

From the manga itself I'd say that most of them are good (specially Orochimaru during part 1) , with Obito and Madara suffering due to inconsistency and kaguya being the most stupid villain to ever appear the series

 

8- You say it's subective but you don't present arguments to show it is indeed subjective, so how can you say for certain?

 

9- see "5"

 

10- I also don't think it was exactly "brainwashing" more like a guilt trip, the producers then used to guilt trip as a means to make Naruto develop feelings for Hinata during the movie which just destroyed NH fans theories that he was loving her since the war and all.

The last is just a poor excuse of a movie even for NH I'd say, I really don't see how can someone truly enjoy it  if they're not turning their brains off and forgetting about the series as a whole

 

 

11- Kaguya is just awful, it's even worse when you consider she probably only existed to tie in the manga with the last

 

12- About this point, think outside of the meta world. Sasuke didn't appeared because SP couldn't afford Sasuke stealing Hinata's spotlight

 

13-By the way the manga ended up going I'd say that if the manga had been called Sasuke no one would notice a single diference and even so there would be no people advocating for the manga to be called Naruto, like some people still advocate for Sasuke

 

the last is about Hinata, everything centers about her, it's more her movie than Naruto's that's for certain

 

14- animation, direction,, music...what else? 

plot was crap, hero was OOC, the heroine was a damsel most of the time and had asspulled powers from nowhere to be relevant, other characters didn't had enough of a spotlight for the "last" movie, villain was laughable, honestly the movie was okay technically speaking in terms of storyline, it just plainly sucked. You can enjoy it for one reason or other but the truth is that from an objective point of view, it sucked

 

 

Hm. Reading some of the replies, I feel like I may have accidentally put my foot in my mouth. I never meant to insinuate that anyone who disliked the film only hated it because they didn't like NaruHina (although you can't fault me if I think it does play a big part for a percentage of the site based on the theme of the site itself). I apologize if I offended anyone. My point was more, I went into this movie without a strong desire to see anyone specific outcome romantically and found I enjoyed the film and feel it's a good Naruto film and regular anime film. It's my opinion, it's your opinion, you hate it I like it. It's all fine to me. 

 

 

 

 

You can like the movie, mate, you just can't change that it's crap. 

 

I mean it's not like every other person doesn't like a movie that is crap, for example I used to like Batman & Robin even though it sucked horribly , so there is that

 


Edited by Nar123, 14 August 2015 - 03:37 PM.

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#33 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 04:00 AM

Also, Nar, besides Sakura being hypocritical with Ino and Sasuke when they were kids, one could just as easily apply the logic to Naruto with Hinata and Toneri in that Naruto only started "loving" Hinata out of a newfound "rivalry" with Toneri and seeing "winning" Hinata as a way of proving himself better..


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#34 chouzu_tao

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 09:11 PM

*Sigh. I took the weekend to think about how to respond to some of these responses. But it boils down to us just disagreeing. We won't be able to change each other's minds, which is fine. But keep this in mind, especially to those who make comments about things just going over my head, first of all, it's insulting. You're basically saying I'm too dumb to understand why I'm wrong. Me not agreeing with you doesn't mean I don't understand why you feel the way you feel about certain things, it just means I don't feel the same way. To me, it's a good Naruto movie and a good anime movie. As a disappointed NaruSaku fan, I didn't think I'd enjoy the movie and I wanted to voice in a stupor the fact that I liked it. That my passion for the series and the shipping does not run as deep as some of yours does not make my opinion any less valid. 


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#35 RedFaction

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 09:27 PM

*Sigh. I took the weekend to think about how to respond to some of these responses. But it boils down to us just disagreeing. We won't be able to change each other's minds, which is fine. But keep this in mind, especially to those who make comments about things just going over my head, first of all, it's insulting. You're basically saying I'm too dumb to understand why I'm wrong. Me not agreeing with you doesn't mean I don't understand why you feel the way you feel about certain things, it just means I don't feel the same way. To me, it's a good Naruto movie and a good anime movie. As a disappointed NaruSaku fan, I didn't think I'd enjoy the movie and I wanted to voice in a stupor the fact that I liked it. That my passion for the series and the shipping does not run as deep as some of yours does not make my opinion any less valid. 

Everyone's opinion is valid, but come on it's not just shipping and "passion for the series" that made people dislike the movie. My friend, who likes NaruHina, fell asleep half way through the movie because of how slow it is, so it can't just be shipping that's the problem. We just found the movie to be plain boring .

 

I've given the movie a few chances already and I just can't bring myself to like it. Honestly, it could be NaruSaku for all I care and it would still be a snooze fest of a movie, in my opinion. For instance, try comparing it to the latest One Piece movie and I feel like there's just no compeition between the two.

 

If you like the movie of course you have every right to, but you should expect people here not to agree with calling the Last a good movie by any measure.


Edited by RedFaction, 18 August 2015 - 09:30 PM.

 


#36 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 10:54 PM

There's no such thing as solid fact for opinions. People can like the movie, people can hate the movie. To me, I find the movie to be subpar and thought act 2 was pretty boring without anything to keep me up. I didn't fall asleep, but I can see people doing so. Regardless, just because I didn't like it doesn't mean I'm right. It's just opinion. To each of their own.

#37 chouzu_tao

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 11:36 PM

Everyone's opinion is valid, but come on it's not just shipping and "passion for the series" that made people dislike the movie. My friend, who likes NaruHina, fell asleep half way through the movie because of how slow it is, so it can't just be shipping that's the problem. We just found the movie to be plain boring .

 

I've given the movie a few chances already and I just can't bring myself to like it. Honestly, it could be NaruSaku for all I care and it would still be a snooze fest of a movie, in my opinion. For instance, try comparing it to the latest One Piece movie and I feel like there's just no compeition between the two.

 

If you like the movie of course you have every right to, but you should expect people here not to agree with calling the Last a good movie by any measure.

I wasn't frustrated or surprised that the majority didn't agree with me, just offended at how some people became insulting. 


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#38 RedFaction

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 12:05 AM

I wasn't frustrated or surprised that the majority didn't agree with me, just offended at how some people became insulting. 

It does silly to me that some people believe that you have to hate the Last to be a "true" fan of Naruto. Like I said, you have every right to like the movie and that doesn't make you a bad fan at all. You should be welcome to express your feelings about anything without the risk of offensive comments on this board.

 

So, sorry for any offensive comments and thanks for taking the time to give your opinion on the movie.


 


#39 TerrorKing

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 12:28 AM

You are absolutely allowed to like The Last if that's how you feelm just like I'm allowed to dislike it. The whole "You're not a real fan if..." argument has always been rather silly to me. What matters is the merit of your argument and it that regard, I feel that the anti-ending faction has the upper hand. 

 

No matter what I do, I just can't overlook the glaring flaws and false premises present in The Last or how it makes both Naruto, Sakura and Hinata look like horribly selfish people. If this had been an NS movie, I would have been just as, if not more, disappointed.  

 

As for the video, that was just me being silly. I was writing the paragraph about development when I was reminded of that particular Steve Ballmer video and so I just couldn't resist putting it there. That's just how I am. 


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#40 James S Cassidy

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 12:30 AM

.....................................

...............

..........................

 

Anyone who likes this movie, this ending, or any part of it is sexist against men and women. Anyone who loves this movie should be put through therapy and needs to have their morals and their heads examined. I am tired of being nice and "respecting people's opinions" when I get no such recourse in return. When you start denying the facts that are pretty much obvious than you are no longer putting forth an opinion, you are just biased and too stupid to see the differences.

No, that is not my opinion, this is the new age facts now. I don't care if you disagree with me because there is noa rgument you can give to change my mind on any of it.

The women who support NaruHina or Hinata in anyway and think that this movie is pinnacle of a love story are probably the same people who think 50 Shades of Grey is a the ultimate love story as well. Women in this manga are treated as weak, kitten hungry, man slaves who only purpose is to procreate and bend to a man's every whim. If the only way I can describe a female character is by the obsession she has for the man she wants to ride, then she is nothing more than a stargate to create babies. Hinata is by far the BIGGEST offender in being the worst women in manga ever created. She is weak, obsessed, and she purposely suffers for the sake of wanting attention. She is not weak because she can't fight. She is weak because the only reason why she fights is not for the benefit of others, but so "Naruto-kun" can notice her.

Hinata should be the representation of how women should NEVER be and I will NEVER say she is attractive in anyway. My opinion used to be very neutral, but because of her fans, Kishimoto, and Studio Perriot I have come to loathe her with every fiber of my being.

You know how we know NaruHina is a pity kitten? Because Kishimoto said it himself. "If I didn't give her Naruto, I would have felt bad." (paraphrase of course.)

THE AUTHOR HIMSELF CONFIRMS IT IS A PITY PAIRING. It no longer becomes opinion....IT IS  A FACT.

Let's not forget Sakura who basically became the whipping girl of the Naruto series. She is beaten up, torn up, and treated like kitten and everyone is okay with this. "This is only interpretation," NO. NO NO NO NO NO. There is NO interpretation when the so called "love of her life" calls her annoying and refuses to even be with her. She is a pathetic girl who, like Hinata, became a weak women who only cared about fulfilling the wills of a man. The kitten hungry slave that apparently what people believe is what true women should be.

People who say that women should be strong and independent should NEVER praise this series for anything.

Again when you have THE AUTHOR HIMSELF say he has NO CLUE how they ended up, refuses to draw anything showing that love, associates the female love's as a drug addiction, and even says they are not happy. You know something is extremely wrong.

Let's not forget the men though. Naruto and Sasuke. How THEIR feelings got either ignored or changed simply because the girls wanted their kittens. How the hell does a man's feelings just not matter any more? I am INSULTED as a man when people believe that a man's emotions are pointless and or manipulated into believing what he doesn't want to believe. The fact that Naruto needed to be brainwashed into loving Hinata is proof enough. And No, I will not change this word. NARUTO WAS BRAINWASHED INTO LOVING HINATA USING GUILT TACTICS AND A GENJUTSU. Genjutsu in the Naruto world have been used for 2 things. Torture and brainwashing. You know how I know this? BECAUSE ITACHI USED A GENJUTSU TO CHANGE KABUTO'S VIEWPOINT AND SASUKE USED IT TO TORTURE SAKURA INTO UNCONSCIOUSNESS.

That's what Naruto was put through. Torture and brainwashing and it would all end if he loved Hinata so dearly.

I AM INSULTED AS A MAN BECAUSE THE MALE'S FEELINGS IN THIS MANGA WERE COMPLETELY IGNORED. SASUKE NEVER LOVED SAKURA AND NARUTO NEVER LOVED HINATA, BUT THEY WERE FORCED BY A BUNCH OF HORNY JAPANESE MALE FANDOMS BECAUSE THEY PITIED HINATA FOR HER BIG BREASTS AND HER "MOE" ATTITUDE. To think otherwise is insanity.

The Joker said it best: "It's all a joke. It is all one demented gag."

There is not "that's your interpretation" kitten. That was KISHIMOTO'S OWN INTERPRETATION. Hinata is a pity kitten and and Sakura is a drug addict. The men have no clue why they are there and everyone is miserable. There are no opinion when GOD HIMSELF says that this is the way things are. 


Chouzu_Tao. If you don't like what I have to say....GET THE kitten OVER IT. Either shut up and accept that I think this is the biggest mistake in anime history or go sit in the corner and leave me alone, because you're not gonna change my outlook with this "Well, that is just your opinion." No, that is the fact of the situation. I don't care about your opinion because honestly no one cares about mine. No one cared to listen to me or any of the fans who find major fault with this story and insult me every single day telling me to just "accept and move on." I am tired of this garbage logic every single day and the kitten I am fed on a daily bases. I am sick and tired of my opinion being ignored and tired of people getting away with all this crap.

No more.

KISHIMOTO HAS FAILED THIS FANDOM. HE FAILED AS AN AUTHOR. HE FAILS AS A HUMAN BEING AND HE ISN'T EVEN MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT THAT HE IS BASICALLY A SCUMBAG HIMSELF.

The worse part still is the fandoms as of this moment trying to make excuses for all the short comings that this movie and this story have failed in. SCREW THAT. Let the story accept all the criticism it gets. Stop trying to sugar coat it and pat Kishimoto on the head. Stop trying to reinforce this behavior by letting them get away with this. Kishimoto didn't respect me as a fan so why should I respect him as a an author. THE MAN HAS NO BALLS TO OWN UP TO ANYTHING HE HAS DONE AND LET EVERYONE ELSE WRITE THE STORY FOR HIM. He is no author. He is a whore that is forced to do pony tricks for cash.

This is no longer "just a story."

There are no more opinions anymore and the proof is in the very essence of why people love or hate this stuff. Even some of my NH and SS friends think this movie is garbage because it massively retcons a lot of stuff and makes Naruto look to be a scumbag.

Oh and by the way. I don't want to hear anyone talk to me or lecture me on calming down or being respectful. I HAVE TRIED BEING CALM. I HAVE TRIED BEING RESPECTFUL AND I HAVE TRIED TO BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE WERE INTELLIGENT, BUT I WAS INSULTED, TREATED LIKE GARBAGE, AND PROVEN WRONG ABOUT PEOPLE BEING INTELLIGENT.

You didn't give me the same respect so I guess you want none. "Do onto others" as they say....

I am tired of spending hours trying to explain to people my view point only for them to not only ignore it, but just say "That is your interpretation."

No, now, that is the fact of the matter and if you disagree then that is just YOUR interpretation. You're wrong, but that is your interpretation.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 19 August 2015 - 04:56 AM.

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