94 replies to this topic

[Konohakitten]

As a person, Sai is better, but as a teammate of Sakura and Naruto, I prefer Sasuke.

To me, if the teammate of Kakashi, Naruto, and Sakura is going to end up being Sai, I prefer Kishi didn't introduce him to the manga at all.
It's Sasuke or nobody.

I know Sasuke betrayed Sakura and Naruto, but in part one he genuinely cared for those two. It's that Sasuke, I want back. The Sasuke who protected Naruto from Haku's attack, and who cheered Sakura in his roundabout way on her genjutsu skills when she was feeling down.

If I can have that team 7 back, I wouldn't ask for anything more. I wouldn't mind if NaruSaku doesn't happen. As long as the three are together for ever. As long as there is no NaruHina or SasuSaku.

You really think Sasuke was a better teammate? I always thought he became a somewhat likable character when it was too late. The next thing we knew he had betrayed Konoha and was long gone. He was very self absorbed about his own advances then that of his teammates, or at least I think so. When he got back from his training with Kakashi he thought he was all that, but he soon learned that Naruto was stronger than him. The jealously that he had towards his own teammate was annoying and from then on I've despised him. Sai on the other hand was a social retard yet he's shown more emotion and compassion towards his teammates then Sasuke ever did. I really fell for Sai's character when he confronted Naruto and Sakura about their feelings for each other. He may be a little off sometimes, but I prefer him both as a person and as a teammate. Sadly I dont think the old team 7 will ever come back. I think there's too much bad blood left by Sasuke's careless actions for him to go back to his old life. I dont think Kishi would do that either. It would make the ending too much like a fairy tale, but I guess we'll just see what happens

Edited by Konohakitten, 29 February 2012 - 05:28 AM.

[merryGOflava]

You really think Sasuke was a better teammate? I always thought he became a somewhat likable character when it was too late. The next thing we knew he had betrayed Konoha and was long gone. He was very self absorbed about his own advances then that of his teammates, or at least I think so. When he got back from his training with Kakashi he thought he was all that, but he soon learned that Naruto was stronger than him. The jealously that he had towards his own teammate was annoying and from then on I've despised him. Sai on the other hand was a social retard yet he's shown more emotion and compassion towards his teammates then Sasuke ever did. I really fell for Sai's character when he confronted Naruto and Sakura about their feelings for each other. He may be a little off sometimes, but I prefer him both as a person and as a teammate. Sadly I dont think the old team 7 will ever come back. I think there's too much bad blood left by Sasuke's careless actions for him to go back to his old life. I dont think Kishi would do that either. It would make the ending too much like a fairy tale, but I guess we'll just see what happens

well both sai and sasuke have trouble putting out their emotions really.

sasuke really wanted to be naruto's friend, just like naruto wanted to. but he only pushed him away because hes socially bad at that (its all itachi's fault!!) just like sai.

sasuke TRIES to act cool. but can be childish also.

hes just afraid to drop his guard, because of itachi really. (it kinda made him not trusting of others..seeing as his close brother killed the people he loved)

but he shows he cares through his actions, by risking his life for naruto and sakura.
sasuke was a good guy early on in the zabuza and haku arc.

sai is good also

[ramenanmitsu]

You really think Sasuke was a better teammate? I always thought he became a somewhat likable character when it was too late. The next thing we knew he had betrayed Konoha and was long gone. He was very self absorbed about his own advances then that of his teammates, or at least I think so. When he got back from his training with Kakashi he thought he was all that, but he soon learned that Naruto was stronger than him. The jealously that he had towards his own teammate was annoying and from then on I've despised him. Sai on the other hand was a social retard yet he's shown more emotion and compassion towards his teammates then Sasuke ever did. I really fell for Sai's character when he confronted Naruto and Sakura about their feelings for each other. He may be a little off sometimes, but I prefer him both as a person and as a teammate.

I liked the Sasuke before he betrayed his teammates. And sure he was jealous of Naruto, but Naruto was jealous of him too. Naruto was jealous of Gaara, when he became Kazekage. Lee was jealous of both Naruto and Sasuke. Jealousy is a common trait between Naruto characters.

I use to like how Sasuke pretended he didn't care for his teammates although he was always the first one to jump in front of them and protect them. In my opinion, he was really a hero in early part one.

Sadly I dont think the old team 7 will ever come back. I think there's too much bad blood left by Sasuke's careless actions for him to go back to his old life. I dont think Kishi would do that either. It would make the ending too much like a fairy tale, but I guess we'll just see what happens

I also think it will be too unrealistic if the old team 7 came back and they go on missions together. I'm thinking of something like a Darth Vader ending. Sasuke dying protecting Naruto, maybe using some kind of suicide jutsu to take down Madara with him or something.

[Shadow Wolf]

I agree. Even though I like Sasuke, I think Sai is the teammate Naruto and Sakura always wanted Sasuke to be.

Seconded!

If you think about it, Sasuke's desire is to cut all bonds, while Sai's wish is to strengthen those bonds.

Seeing how Sai went from being an emotionless person to a friend and comrade is enough to make me see him as better than Sasuke, since he corrected Sasuke's mistake.

[CloudMountainJuror]

he can indeed be a jerk but no need to add the cussing.

i like sasuke and i dont like him being bashed. (though i understand hes a villain)

i came here cause i got tired of people bashing sakura everywhere else. sasuke doesnt need so much hate.

*shrugs* Isn't saying he's a "self-absorbed jackass" (quoting someone else here; just clarifying that) the same meaning as "jerk"? Just in a more specific way?

I understand your dislike of cussing, but really, I myself think of them as just other words in the English language. Now, if someone called Sasuke something that's blatantly untrue, perhaps a "manipulative a**hole", then THAT I would not be fine with. Not because it has a cuss word in it. Because it's untrue. When has Sasuke ever been manipulative? He's the one who's been manipulated. If someone called him that, then I would object.

But "self-absorbed jackass"? I think that that's pretty true. He's been obsessed with himself since he was introduced.

[merryGOflava]

*shrugs* Isn't saying he's a "self-absorbed jackass" (quoting someone else here; just clarifying that) the same meaning as "jerk"? Just in a more specific way?

I understand your dislike of cussing, but really, I myself think of them as just other words in the English language. Now, if someone called Sasuke something that's blatantly untrue, perhaps a "manipulative a**hole", then THAT I would not be fine with. Not because it has a cuss word in it. Because it's untrue. When has Sasuke ever been manipulative? He's the one who's been manipulated. If someone called him that, then I would object.

But "self-absorbed jackass"? I think that that's pretty true. He's been obsessed with himself since he was introduced.

and i dont think its true.
i say hes just misunderstood.
and you can try and justify it all you want i still say your bashing a character i like.

[Konohakitten]

well both sai and sasuke have trouble putting out their emotions really.

sasuke really wanted to be naruto's friend, just like naruto wanted to. but he only pushed him away because hes socially bad at that (its all itachi's fault!!) just like sai.

sai is good also

Well Sai didnt even know what emotions were, he was just an empty walking vessel. Sasuke on the other hand knew what emotions were since he had a normal life before everything went down hill for him. Yes Itachi had a part in that but it's like I say pain is inevitable suffering is optional and Sasuke clearly chose to suffer silently. The result was him being the type of person he was to Sakura and Naruto. Plus I think Sasuke thirst for power and never being able to keep up with Naruto is what caused him to be the way he was. Yes at one point they became friends but only for Sasuke to break the bond. Also I feel that Sasuke spent most of his time thinking of himself. Once he actually thought of others his character was already annoying to me. Oh and yes Sai is good as well XD

I liked the Sasuke before he betrayed his teammates. And sure he was jealous of Naruto, but Naruto was jealous of him too. Naruto was jealous of Gaara, when he became Kazekage. Lee was jealous of both Naruto and Sasuke. Jealousy is a common trait between Naruto characters.

Upon thinking things over I found that me using the word jealously in my first post wasn't the word I was looking for. I talked it over with my hubby and we both agreed that envy is a better suited word for Sasuke's feelings. Despite what ppl think jealously and envy dont mean the same thing. Jealously is the fear of losing someone or an object someone is attached to. Where as envy is the feeling of resentment usually because another person has superior qualities or has completed more achievement then the person that's envious. Perhaps Sasuke was jealous at one point because he never really saw Naruto as a rival, however as soon as he saw that Naruto wasn't a nobody and was much stronger things changed. As for Lee and Naruto neither one of them showed the anti social traits that Sasuke did. Instead of getting upset and shutting down they saw their moments of jealously as a way to work harder towards their goals. For Naruto it was to be Hokage, and for Lee it was to win Sakura's love. I never saw them dwell on it or become bitter either.

I'd like to thank my husband and wiki for the proper definitions XD

I agree. Even though I like Sasuke, I think Sai is the teammate Naruto and Sakura always wanted Sasuke to be.

Yeah it's a shame that a new comer like Sai was able to do all the things that Sasuke should have done.

Seconded!

If you think about it, Sasuke's desire is to cut all bonds, while Sai's wish is to strengthen those bonds.

Seeing how Sai went from being an emotionless person to a friend and comrade is enough to make me see him as better than Sasuke, since he corrected Sasuke's mistake.

Yup well said.

*shrugs* Isn't saying he's a "self-absorbed jackass" (quoting someone else here; just clarifying that) the same meaning as "jerk"? Just in a more specific way?

I understand your dislike of cussing, but really, I myself think of them as just other words in the English language. Now, if someone called Sasuke something that's blatantly untrue, perhaps a "manipulative a**hole", then THAT I would not be fine with. Not because it has a cuss word in it. Because it's untrue. When has Sasuke ever been manipulative? He's the one who's been manipulated. If someone called him that, then I would object.

But "self-absorbed jackass"? I think that that's pretty true. He's been obsessed with himself since he was introduced.

I totally agree with you, I feel that Kishi has really gone out of his way to make a good amount of ppl despise Sasuke, myself included. I think what gets me the most is that he's had plenty of opportunities to change but he hasn't taken any of them and that just makes him look even worse. So words are words but I agree that he is a self-absorbed jackass.

Edited by Konohakitten, 29 February 2012 - 06:12 PM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

and i dont think its true.
i say hes just misunderstood.
and you can try and justify it all you want i still say your bashing a character i like.

Misunderstood? How so?

And I'm not trying to justify it, I am justifying it. We shouldn't be censored from speaking the truth just because some people are a little sensitive.

I totally agree with you, I feel that Kishi has really gone out of his way to make a good amount of ppl despise Sasuke, myself included. I think what gets me the most is that he's had plenty of opportunities to change but he hasn't taken any of them and that just makes him look even worse. So words are words but I agree that he is a self-absorbed jackass.

That is exactly the reason why he's a jerk. He has had so many opportunities, but hasn't even tried to take any of them.

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 29 February 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[redkunai66]

I by no means am a sasuke fangirl- but honestly i think you're only focusing on sasuke's bad qualities

Well Sai didnt even know what emotions were, he was just an empty walking vessel. Sasuke on the other hand knew what emotions were since he had a normal life before everything went down hill for him. Yes Itachi had a part in that but it's like I say pain is inevitable suffering is optional and Sasuke clearly chose to suffer silently. The result was him being the type of person he was to Sakura and Naruto. Plus I think Sasuke thirst for power and never being able to keep up with Naruto is what caused him to be the way he was. Yes at one point they became friends but only for Sasuke to break the bond. Also I feel that Sasuke spent most of his time thinking of himself. Once he actually thought of others his character was already annoying to me. Oh and yes Sai is good as well XD

maybe i'm getting something wrong here in what you mean- but I don't think Sasuke had an ulterior motive in befriending Naruto and Sakura- if it was- it would have been a damn stupid move for him to jump infront of naruto in the wave arc:


That's true alturisim no matter how you cut it- he'd gain nothing from potentional death. It was only when he decided he needed Orihimaru's help that he'd cut his bonds- he didn't make bonds to cut them o.o.

As for only thinking of himself- i'd say that was 80% times true. But in his own priggish way- he did think he did think of the team- like he might have put down Sakura here after the wave arc:

but he bounced back when felt that she was acting weird:

and even comended her:


So yeah- he's a jerk- but it wasn't like he didn't care at all about his teammates- he did to an extent. I don't know how it is that him having some decency is annoying :?

Upon thinking things over I found that me using the word jealously in my first post wasn't the word I was looking for. I talked it over with my hubby and we both agreed that envy is a better suited word for Sasuke's feelings. Despite what ppl think jealously and envy dont mean the same thing. Jealously is the fear of losing someone or an object someone is attached to. Where as envy is the feeling of resentment usually because another person has superior qualities or has completed more achievement then the person that's envious. Perhaps Sasuke was jealous at one point because he never really saw Naruto as a rival, however as soon as he saw that Naruto wasn't a nobody and was much stronger things changed. As for Lee and Naruto neither one of them showed the anti social traits that Sasuke did. Instead of getting upset and shutting down they saw their moments of jealously as a way to work harder towards their goals. For Naruto it was to be Hokage, and for Lee it was to win Sakura's love. I never saw them dwell on it or become bitter either.

I'd like to thank my husband and wiki for the proper definitions XD

okay machinations of words aside. Yes Sasuke's jealousy/envy was bitter- the thing is that what he's been turned bitter. its a combination of the uchiha tragedy, Orichimaru's curse seal and his own kitten- baggery personality. Both Naruto and Lee had their teacher's encouragements, as well as a natrual spirit they cultivated into working hard towards their respective goals.
Sasuke did not have either of those things (or rather one got in the way of the other), he doesn't have a positive attitude because of the masacare he's seen his brother do. I don't think its possible to be optimistic about anything after something like that, Itachi's betrayal was a betrayal of everything Sasuke believed in pre-massacre: things like how his brother was what he wanted to grow up into, that the Uchiah was a strong and prestigious Clan. He still tried to hang onto some things though (pride for his name, because of His father's pride in him), but others he's had to abandon to pick up something new:





- that's how he co-oped with living alone- he didn't know anything better:

He might have had Kakashi, but his own personality made it so that he wouldn't open up to the dude, because it'd be another percieved weakness.
Which is a dumb way to think- but that's the way the brat thought- He wanted to kill Itachi that bad. The thing about obsession though- is that you have to recognize it as wrong to get yourself out of it- and you can't if you don't see it as bad thing. Sasuke in that perspective didn't see chasing after his revenge dream as bad, just like naruto and lee did not think their dreams were bad. He's more of a fool than someone who honsetly hated Naruto:/ (the person he actively hated was his brother).

I totally agree with you, I feel that Kishi has really gone out of his way to make a good amount of ppl despise Sasuke, myself included. I think what gets me the most is that he's had plenty of opportunities to change but he hasn't taken any of them and that just makes him look even worse. So words are words but I agree that he is a self-absorbed jackass.

I don't think a writer makes a character just to piss readers off. If a story could be analogous to chess. the Setting would be the game board, the characters would be the chess pieces, and the game play the plot.
The thing is though- characters don't work like chess pieces-they can be killed and brought back, talk and have convictions, act as foils, communicate themes, behave ironically, and they can switch sides between Antagonism and protagonist. The point of a story is to tell a story, and I don't think Kishi is trying to tell us "HATE SAUCSKE!!!!1!!!", with the themes he's tried to bring up, hardwork, achieveing dreams, war and akatsuki, Jinchuriki and Bijuu, it's that animosity can't be solved with more animosity. Success is determined by a positive attitude and willingness to work towards a positive goal. Sasuke has to fail, and he's in the wrong, but whether you hate him or not- that's what you feel as a reader.
Anyways i'm sorry for the big wall o'text- you can still dislike sasuke- I know that when I first read the ending of the Vally of the End arc, I literally hated the brat. Its part of why I still voted for Sai in this poll, because Sai's behaviour has improved as the story moved forwards- Sasuke has moved backwards in developement. I just wanted to explain that part I sasuke wasn't this evil little kid bent on his teammates suffering and why people still like him like the sasusaku'rs *sigh*.

[Fyuria'sLeo]

In this thread people getting hurt cause other's don't like what the other does.

[Konohakitten]

I by no means am a sasuke fangirl- but honestly i think you're only focusing on sasuke's bad qualities

That's true alturisim no matter how you cut it- he'd gain nothing from potentional death. It was only when he decided he needed Orihimaru's help that he'd cut his bonds- he didn't make bonds to cut them o.o.


So yeah- he's a jerk- but it wasn't like he didn't care at all about his teammates- he did to an extent. I don't know how it is that him having some decency is annoying :?

I don't think a writer makes a character just to piss readers off. If a story could be analogous to chess. the Setting would be the game board, the characters would be the chess pieces, and the game play the plot.
The thing is though- characters don't work like chess pieces-they can be killed and brought back, talk and have convictions, act as foils, communicate themes, behave ironically, and they can switch sides between Antagonism and protagonist. The point of a story is to tell a story, and I don't think Kishi is trying to tell us "HATE SAUCSKE!!!!1!!!", with the themes he's tried to bring up, hardwork, achieveing dreams, war and akatsuki, Jinchuriki and Bijuu, it's that animosity can't be solved with more animosity. Success is determined by a positive attitude and willingness to work towards a positive goal. Sasuke has to fail, and he's in the wrong, but whether you hate him or not- that's what you feel as a reader.
Anyways i'm sorry for the big wall o'text- you can still dislike sasuke- I know that when I first read the ending of the Vally of the End arc, I literally hated the brat. Its part of why I still voted for Sai in this poll, because Sai's behaviour has improved as the story moved forwards- Sasuke has moved backwards in developement. I just wanted to explain that part I sasuke wasn't this evil little kid bent on his teammates suffering and why people still like him like the sasusaku'rs *sigh*.

To me personally and let me stress personally Sasuke's bad qualities out way his good qualities, that's why I focused on them.


I didnt mean to say that he became friends with Naruto just to cut his bonds. What I meant to say is that rather then to just forget Naruto he chose to fight and kill him so that he could gain more power by breaking his bonds. So it was horrible to realize that his new bond was just a step latter to gain the upper hand power wise.

To me it's annoying because Sasuke wasn't around long enough to really prove himself more. Everyone likes to point out the few moments he actually did something that wasn't centered around him. To me personally it isn't enough, yes it happened but its a shame he didnt do more. It was disappointing to see Sasuke actually get to be a likable only to turn around and regress. All of this can't be helped since Kishi decided to take Sasuke down that path.

I agree, Sai has done so much more. As for Sasuke I know he wasn't always the charming gentle he is today, but I was explaining why I personally thought he wasn't a better teammate then Sai.

[merryGOflava]

To me personally and let me stress personally Sasuke's bad qualities out way his good qualities, that's why I focused on them.


I didnt mean to say that he became friends with Naruto just to cut his bonds. What I meant to say is that rather then to just forget Naruto he chose to fight and kill him so that he could gain more power by breaking his bonds. So it was horrible to realize that his new bond was just a step latter to gain the upper hand power wise.

To me it's annoying because Sasuke wasn't around long enough to really prove himself more. Everyone likes to point out the few moments he actually did something that wasn't centered around him. To me personally it isn't enough, yes it happened but its a shame he didnt do more. It was disappointing to see Sasuke actually get to be a likable only to turn around and regress. All of this can't be helped since Kishi decided to take Sasuke down that path.

I agree, Sai has done so much more. As for Sasuke I know he wasn't always the charming gentle he is today, but I was explaining why I personally thought he wasn't a better teammate then Sai.

sasuke was on team 7 long enough.

he was there long enough to care about the team and risk his life for them.

-risked his life for naruto against haku
-trained with naruto (the tree climbing exercise specifically)
-cheered up sakura (weird but it happened)
-fought against orochimaru to protect his team (forest of death)
-told naruto to save sakura at all costs (cause he didnt want to see his comrades die again)
-desperately went to look for naruto when he heard itachi was after him (worried)
-even praised naruto for fighting to save sakura's life
-didnt kill naruto when they fought at the waterfall place (he couldnt do it)

he was a good team member. he tired to act cool, by saying naruto was a loser and stuff, but he really respected him and even risked his life for them even though it meant never killing itachi.

really....no matter how you look at it....itachi was the one to mess him up from start to end.

the minute itachi gets on the show sasuke starts thinking of power like crazy. and because of itachi he looks to orochimaru.

[Fyuria'sLeo]

Itachi just said that he didnt want Sasuke to walk this path he wanted him to walk another, Sasuke is the one who didnt accept his brothers wish so its also Sasuke's fault.

[merryGOflava]

Itachi just said that he didnt want Sasuke to walk this path he wanted him to walk another, Sasuke is the one who didnt accept his brothers wish so its also Sasuke's fault.

no. its not sasuke's fault at all.

itachi was the one that killed his family...which
caused him to hate itachi....which
caused him to want revenge for his clan...which
made him want power after itachi kept saying...."hate is all you need" ...which
turned him toward orochimaru.....which
caused him to leave konoha......theeen
after brushing away from the village he finally finds itachi and kills him....but
it was all a lie from itachi....and he ended up killing a brother he loved.....which
caused him to go crazy....and
made him go after the kages....which
failed...so he teamed up with madara....and
now hes trying to destroy konoha for his brother and suffering

see how that worked? itachi caused a good kid like sasuke to go bitter...and just when sasuke was getting better again...itachi comes back and says " you need more hate" and messes sasuke AGAIN!!!

dude its all itachi's fault(ill say MOSTLY instead of all). you can say sasuke made his own path....but itachi practically made the bright yellow arrows for him to follow

sadly itachi's one mistake was keeping sasuke alive to live in pain and suffering.
and hurting his chances of keeping his bonds. (not that i think naruto cant save him)

Edited by merryGOflava, 01 March 2012 - 01:35 AM.

[Fyuria'sLeo]

Still think its both 50% Sasuke's fault and 50% Itachi's fault.

[Konohakitten]

Itachi just said that he didnt want Sasuke to walk this path he wanted him to walk another, Sasuke is the one who didnt accept his brothers wish so its also Sasuke's fault.

Exactly! Even after Sasuke found out the truth about his brother he still went down the wrong path. Itachi's death should have been the moment for Sasuke to look back at everything he had done, and yet he decided to just continue on the awful path he was on.

Still think its both 50% Sasuke's fault and 50% Itachi's fault.

Yup everything isn't Itachi's fault, Sasuke had a part in it as well. Like I said in a previous post pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional and Sasuke chose to dwell and fester in his past instead of picking himself up and moving on.

[merryGOflava]

Exactly! Even after Sasuke found out the truth about his brother he still went down the wrong path. Itachi's death should have been the moment for Sasuke to look back at everything he had done, and yet he decided to just continue on the awful path he was on.



Yup everything isn't Itachi's fault, Sasuke had a part in it as well. Like I said in a previous post pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional and Sasuke chose to dwell and fester in his past instead of picking himself up and moving on.

your not being fair to sasuke here, how can sasuke possible pick himself up when something keeps knocking him down.

he tried getting up boundless times....but theres also something else that pushes him straight down again.

[Cursed Wind]

your not being fair to sasuke here, how can sasuke possible pick himself up when something keeps knocking him down.

he tried getting up boundless times....but theres also something else that pushes him straight down again.

Where are these moments when he is trying to get back up and is being pushed down?

[merryGOflava]

Where are these moments when he is trying to get back up and is being pushed down?

1) when he tires to forget about revenge when kakashi tells him how important friends are
1.5) then those sound ninja beat him up right afterward and tell him hes weak

1) when hes trying to defend naruto and sakura from orochimaru
1.5) then he gets bit by orochimaru and gets the curse mark

1) when he finally feels like hes become powerful through training and hard work(with kakashi)
1.5) itachi has to come and kick his butt sending him to the hospital

1) when he feels he defeated the person that has destroyed his whole clan
1.5) madara goes and tells him itachi loved him

to name a few