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Samurai 8 has been axed!


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#41 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 09:29 AM

Wow, so no interview on the cancellation of Samurai 8? What a pity. Wanted to see his how he would respond to the media and fans (not Japan).

 

 

I have a question. Do you think a public announcement for an apology to the fans for the ending will help Masashi to get him back to their good graces? Or is it too little, too late?

 

Little too late. Fans have moved on and mostly likely the majority will like remained indifferent about his apologies. Only fans that is within his reach are the next generation of Japanese readers to come in the future in the next couple of decades to come. For this strategy to work, he needs be off Japan's radar for a while and keep a low profile for a long time that he would be forgotten in time. As mentioned from my advice from my previous posts. Another thing he can try is not to put his name on any of the volumes that will be serialized if it can be done legally.

 

This means he an anonymous author like a ghost writer. Although, the magazine would be gambling with their reputation if the current era of fans learned that of Kishi's identity. Personally, I don't see him going anonymous unless he's desperate for money. 

 

Or he could just temporary stop doing manga and spend time with his family. If Kishi were my age as of now (mid 30's), than he could afford to give up a score of years pave a road for his restart and final series. He does not have that much decades to spare.


Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 26 April 2020 - 09:31 AM.

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#42 Namaenash

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 01:27 PM

 
I have a question. Do you think a public announcement for an apology to the fans for the ending will help Masashi to get him back to their good graces? Or is it too little, too late?

Well, not enough data and fact to backup, so, I frankly don't know. Generally speaking, to re-engage your customers that have already churned would require more effort than to acquire new customers.

WSJ tried to acquire new customers by collaborating Kishi with different illustrators. That doesn't work, albeit heavy marketing effort. It actually backfires, since the readers knew Kishi is behind it. He wanted 10 volumes, he didn't even get half of it. The first two volumes' sales speak loud and clear: people don't wait the next work from Kishimoto.


Manga industry is built upon loyal readers --it's the returning customers that keep manga afloat. For that reason, characters popularity poll is often considered seriously by authors. It's their job to strike the balance of servicing the fans, at the same time ensuring the stories are sound. Whoever made the decision to went with NH/SS clearly had bias. NH/SS were neither popular nor producing good story quality to the franchise. It's a recipe for failure in future projects for this franchise.

I'd recommend Kishimoto to stay away from manga industry for a couple of years. Try to look into other media (e.g. video games, anime, etc). Anything but manga and/or the Boruto Naruto next generation, until at least people 'forget' about Naruto franchise.

Dragon Ball franchise made a good return (commercially) by riding into video games with its new technology. In the meantime, before making comeback, Toriyama was involved in many projects outside of the manga industry. Fans would argue that they milk too much, but hey, all things considered, I'd say they've made a good fortune and keep their fans entertained.

They can kill Boruto series now, and get some chance to make comeback years later like Dragon Ball did. Or they can continue the loss leader game. Selling license just because it has an assumption that people by large are still watch Naruto series.

The proxy metric for Boruto success is simple: how many Boruto movies are made since the ending? I didn't count the first Boruto movie, since it's clearly produced within the same budget as The Last.

Edited by Namaenash, 27 April 2020 - 02:41 AM.

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#43 James S Cassidy

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 06:52 PM

This means he an anonymous author like a ghost writer.

One way he could do this successfully was if it was found out could say he did it because he really wanted to write a meaningful story without the fame. Like how The Masked Singer is allowing people to rate people for their talent and not their fame, Kishimoto could do the same. He wants to show that his talent is not wasted or bad.

Since Shonen Jump and other companies love thinking that just plastering his name on something instantly makes it good, it would be beneficial to not have that pressure on him.

This is why Samurai 8 failed. It was not that the story was necessarily bad, but rather "Oh it is Kishimoto? Well, then it will suck and editors will just influence him to change everything."
 

 

Dragon Ball franchise made a good return (commercially) by riding into video games with its new technology. In the meantime, before making comeback, Toriyama was involved in many projects outside of the manga industry. Fans would argue that they milk too much, but hey, all things considered, I'd say they've made a good fortune and keep their fans entertained.

It's funny because eventually the companies tried cash in on the hype of advertising.

They knew Future Trunks was popular among fans as well as Gohan was...so they used these characters poorly and completely messed with them just for the cash grab. 

Especially Future Trunks and the Goku Black saga where the time travel made NO sense, but they did it all to bring Future Trunks back into the series because he was super popular. Of course, they changed his hair color to blue because supposedly that was the original idea and Toriyama never mentioned it to the anime team until much later.

(Although, the Trunks with purple hair was better.)
 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 26 April 2020 - 06:52 PM.

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#44 RulesofNature

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 07:09 PM

 

I have a question. Do you think a public announcement for an apology to the fans for the ending will help Masashi to get him back to their good graces? Or is it too little, too late?

That would be career suicide. Let me explain.

 

The Japanese have a very different work ethic than Americans do. Rather that working to raise their own status, making themselves look good, they are expected to work in order to make their superiors look good. Doing stuff like whistleblowing sexual harassment isn't going to go the same as it would in the West, they often will say as such to foreign women going over there to work. Often times, bullying will be covered up to protect a school, or the police will claim crimes committed to foreigners were not done by Japanese individuals.

 

If Kishi were to come out and publically apologize for what happened, it would only be because bosses allowed him to. Anything else is, at best, going to be an off the cuft comment that would be hard to verify.

 

That hypothetical apology would not just make Kishi look bad. It would make at editors at SJ look bad for letting it pass when their job is to help refine a manga into a viable product. If his comments point in the direction of SP and the influence of their staff, then he'll alienate a studio who potentially could bring his work to the home screen. Sponsors would be tagged because they helped support a product now said to be below quality, or even make merchandise for it. You get the idea. Everyone connected to creating and distributing the series would now be associated with a product the creator has now denounced.

 

And let's not forget, they are still trying to profit off the IP with the cancerous tumor they grafted onto it.

 

Kishi could very well end up blacklisted within the industry. It happens. Look at any idol who gets wrapped up in a scandal such as smoking or having a boyfriend. There are popular actors in Japan who suffer such a fate.  There was even an isekai anime in production that was pretty much wiped out when it's creator was revealed to be a massive racist when the announcement brought attention to his twitter. The Japanese only apologize when it's safe to do so (this ties into their government denying what happened in WWII, because it would make the people who built modern Japan look bad).


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#45 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 11:26 PM

Here's kind of a if not the problem with Kishimoto coming out and either revealing that the ending was a mandate from the higher ups or he tries to change the ending. Boruto is still ongoing. 

 

If he does anything like what we think he should have done he would be stabbing the people working on it in the back and like Rules said would probably get blacklisted for that alone.

 

The mangaka of shaman king was able to go back and rework the ending because their was no sequel. Kubo is able if he wasn't to use the upcoming Bleach anime to change the ending if he wants to because theirs no sequel or spin off someone else other than him has worked on.

 

Another thing is that since Boruto is still ongoing he can never be completely off the radar because Boruto was his creation before he moved on and let others work on it.

 

Wow, so no interview on the cancellation of Samurai 8? What a pity. Wanted to see his how he would respond to the media and fans (not Japan).

Samurai 8 was just some random flop editorial over-hyped. Why would they want to talk about it instead of just moving on?

 

Manga industry is built upon loyal readers --it's the returning customers that keep manga afloat. For that reason, characters popularity poll is often considered seriously by authors. It's their job to strike the balance of servicing the fans, at the same time ensuring the stories are sound. Whoever made the decision to went with NH/SS clearly had bias.

I'd recommend Kishimoto to stay away from manga industry for a couple of years. Try to look into other media (e.g. video games, anime, etc). Anything but manga and/or the Boruto Naruto next generation, until at least people 'forget' about Naruto franchise.

Dragon Ball franchise made a good return (commercially) by riding into video games with its new technology. In the meantime, before making comeback, Toriyama was involved in many projects outside of the manga industry. Fans would argue that they milk too much, but hey, all things considered, I'd say they've made a good fortune and keep their fans entertained.

They can kill Boruto series now, and get some chance to make comeback years later like Dragon Ball did. Or they can continue the loss leader game. Selling license just because it has an assumption that people by large are still watch Naruto series.

The proxy metric for Boruto success is simple: how many Boruto movies are made since the ending? I didn't count the first Boruto movie, since it's clearly produced within the same budget as The Last.

To be honest I think he did try staying away to let things cool over...but with Boruto ongoing. He can't.

 

As for video games. Naruto had good video games when it was on going the best being Naruto Ninja Storm series. Last game if people would recall was suppose to have a release date pretty close to when Naruto ended, then the backlash happened, they moved the release date back months so it wouldn't effect sales, and once they were done with that game CC2 said they were done with Naruto and wanted to move on to another anime. Their next game was Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot.

 

Oh Toonami took Boruto off the air months back.

 

There have been no movies or ova since The Boruto Movie...other then the Naruto became Hokage ova.

 

If Kishi were to come out and publicly apologize for what happened, it would only be because bosses allowed him to. Anything else is, at best, going to be an off the cuft comment that would be hard to verify.

 

That hypothetical apology would not just make Kishi look bad. It would make at editors at SJ look bad for letting it pass when their job is to help refine a manga into a viable product. If his comments point in the direction of SP and the influence of their staff, then he'll alienate a studio who potentially could bring his work to the home screen. Sponsors would be tagged because they helped support a product now said to be below quality, or even make merchandise for it. You get the idea. Everyone connected to creating and distributing the series would now be associated with a product the creator has now denounced.

 

And let's not forget, they are still trying to profit off the IP with the cancerous tumor they grafted onto it.

 

Kishi could very well end up blacklisted within the industry. It happens. Look at any idol who gets wrapped up in a scandal such as smoking or having a boyfriend. There are popular actors in Japan who suffer such a fate.  There was even an isekai anime in production that was pretty much wiped out when it's creator was revealed to be a massive racist when the announcement brought attention to his twitter. The Japanese only apologize when it's safe to do so (this ties into their government denying what happened in WWII, because it would make the people who built modern Japan look bad).

He kind of already admitted that the editors pressured him for years to change the heroine to Hinata in interviews already. We don't keep track/records of his interview -though honestly we probably should have- but from what I recall now that I trying to recall...he pretty much admitted to a lot of things in slip ups throughout the interviews he had since the ending. Its just often ignored or looked over.

 

The only time Kishimoto can apologies and do the NS ending if he wants to by that point is once Boruto ends.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 26 April 2020 - 11:41 PM.


#46 Gravenimage

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 01:33 AM

 

I have a question. Do you think a public announcement for an apology to the fans for the ending will help Masashi to get him back to their good graces? Or is it too little, too late?

 

Doubt it Kishi has proven he'is a sell out and no one would want to read his works ever again. And if by some miracle he decides to make the NS ending he wanted from the start we can see NH/SS fans kittening saying" the NH SS ending is the true and original one what Kishi did is not canon" :zaru:


Edited by Gravenimage, 27 April 2020 - 01:39 AM.

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#47 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 19 November 2020 - 12:16 AM

This is what happens when you take your fans for granted. Kishi thought he was gonna get 10+ volumes off this crap. No such luck. You destroyed our trust with your last manga. Why should we have trusted you with this one? I've been saying it from the beginning, but what Kishimoto should have done, at least respect to the Naruto pairings was (1) Have Naruto get with Sakura as was intended, (2) Establish that Naruto has infinite timelines and give multiple versions of final chapter (thereby pleasing literally everybody) or (3) make the ending vague and ambiguous. Obviously, I wanted #1 to happen (or else I wouldn't be on this site) and could have lived with #2.

 

Anyways, it looks like Kishi is now back to writing Naruto, er I mean Boruto, but expect that to get canned too. NOBODY likes that crap. Anytime I'm up late and happen to have adult swim on, I'll deliberately change the channel when Boruto comes on. Terrible show. Terrible series. And not just because the show was dead day one with just the premise alone. Boruto is an extremely unlikable protagonist. You know something is bad when you find yourself rooting AGAINST the protagonist. 


Edited by ThroughWithLove, 19 November 2020 - 12:29 AM.

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#48 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 19 November 2020 - 12:22 AM

Well, not enough data and fact to backup, so, I frankly don't know. Generally speaking, to re-engage your customers that have already churned would require more effort than to acquire new customers.

WSJ tried to acquire new customers by collaborating Kishi with different illustrators. That doesn't work, albeit heavy marketing effort. It actually backfires, since the readers knew Kishi is behind it. He wanted 10 volumes, he didn't even get half of it. The first two volumes' sales speak loud and clear: people don't wait the next work from Kishimoto.


Manga industry is built upon loyal readers --it's the returning customers that keep manga afloat. For that reason, characters popularity poll is often considered seriously by authors. It's their job to strike the balance of servicing the fans, at the same time ensuring the stories are sound. Whoever made the decision to went with NH/SS clearly had bias. NH/SS were neither popular nor producing good story quality to the franchise. It's a recipe for failure in future projects for this franchise.

I'd recommend Kishimoto to stay away from manga industry for a couple of years. Try to look into other media (e.g. video games, anime, etc). Anything but manga and/or the Boruto Naruto next generation, until at least people 'forget' about Naruto franchise.

Dragon Ball franchise made a good return (commercially) by riding into video games with its new technology. In the meantime, before making comeback, Toriyama was involved in many projects outside of the manga industry. Fans would argue that they milk too much, but hey, all things considered, I'd say they've made a good fortune and keep their fans entertained.

They can kill Boruto series now, and get some chance to make comeback years later like Dragon Ball did. Or they can continue the loss leader game. Selling license just because it has an assumption that people by large are still watch Naruto series.

The proxy metric for Boruto success is simple: how many Boruto movies are made since the ending? I didn't count the first Boruto movie, since it's clearly produced within the same budget as The Last.

 

Exactly. In the future, he should do well not to let random youtube/twitter/tumblr users influence his writing decisions as the loudest voices seldom represent what the actually MAJORITY thinks. Based on the failure of Samurai 8 and the Boruto series, it's pretty clear at this point that the NH/SS brigade did NOT represent a majority of the fandom. Kishimoto bent over backwards to help them out, but now that Kishi DESPERATELY needs their help and support, they are nowhere to be found. As such, Kishimoto has been left holding the proverbial bag. Don't be surprised if he begins his run with Boruto by throwing in random nods to NS in a DESPERATE attempt to bring us back into the fold. Nope, sorry bucko. Too little too late! Had you listened to us in the first place, you wouldn't be in this situation.


Edited by ThroughWithLove, 19 November 2020 - 12:27 AM.

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#49 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 19 November 2020 - 12:47 AM

I always said that I wouldnt mind him making NH/SS alternates as long as wasnt they canon to story while NS is.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 19 November 2020 - 12:50 AM.

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#50 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 19 November 2020 - 01:09 AM

Exactly. In the future, he should do well not to let random youtube/twitter/tumblr users influence his writing decisions as the loudest voices seldom represent what the actually MAJORITY thinks. Based on the failure of Samurai 8 and the Boruto series, it's pretty clear at this point that the NH/SS brigade did NOT represent a majority of the fandom. Kishimoto bent over backwards to help them out, but now that Kishi DESPERATELY needs their help and support, they are nowhere to be found. As such, Kishimoto has been left holding the proverbial bag. Don't be surprised if he begins his run with Boruto by throwing in random nods to NS in a DESPERATE attempt to bring us back into the fold. Nope, sorry bucko. Too little too late! Had you listened to us in the first place, you wouldn't be in this situation.


The only way I can see him having NS moments in boruto, is if he does a multiverse and we see one where NS got together and boruto and co are somehow transported to that universe for an arc like with fairy tail did with eldos arc.

Edited by BlueStarSaber, 19 November 2020 - 01:10 AM.


#51 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 19 November 2020 - 01:11 AM

The only way I can see him having NS moments in boruto, is if he does a multiverse and we see one where NS got together and boruto and co are somehow transported to that universe for an arc or two like with fairy tail.

 

I was thinking more like just having her bicker with him like she did in the old days, but it wouldn't surprise me if he got that desperate. I STILL wouldn't read Boruto.


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#52 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 19 November 2020 - 01:23 AM

honestly, when he decides to find his balls and make NS happen, I see him going the Infinity Tsukoyomi route, with Naruto waking up just as he is about to die in Boruto or something like that. He left the IT path open ever since Chapter 609: The Dream Begins. Or something like that.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 19 November 2020 - 03:55 PM.

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#53 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 04:35 AM

Sigh. I'll admit that the art work for Samurai 8 was appealing, but it's a bit surprising that it was cancelled so quick. It just proves how little his name holds weight now after the entire Naruto fiasco. The home country just wasn't having it I suppose. I can't imagine having a successful series if it's not successful for the original audience. I wonder if this is considered... embarrassing for him? This man needs to retire and move on from everything. Now that he's taken on Boruto with a more central role, we will see what becomes of it.

This is going to sound harsh but can we please stop with the kumbaya BS with people who have continuously proven that they don't give a flying f*** about the facts? Seriously, this 'they can have an alternative ending' is extremely disgusting because it has several implications. One, that their pairings were legitimate and held significant ground. Second, that their awful actions shouldn't have any damn consequences. Seriously, all of the NH/SS fans put themselves into the positions that they were in. The rest of the entire fandom shouldn't have to suffer because they made the conscious decision to ignore basic facts, they created their own narratives without an inkling of evidence whatsoever and they actively pursued to discredit and destroy the female lead. And for what, a mere secondary character who not only has absolutely no significant relationship with the protagonist but has no relationship with any of the main characters at ALL.

This tone is not directed at you at all, moreso just frustration from seeing this suggestion too frequently. These lunatics refused to accept the original story, so they would have had to deal with their own damn delusions when the time came. It's a problem that isn't on the author but this minority group who obviously lacked reading comprehension skills (amongst other things).


LMAO. They wanted to replace Sakura, the female lead, a main character with a mere secondary character who has no significant relationship with Naruto, any of the main plot lines, or with any of the main characters? Like, whatsoever? I think I can wish a solid f*** you to the obviously had-other-intentions individuals who pushed for such a drastic change to such a critical part of the story. You would essentially have to dismiss Team 7, given that Sakura is the female lead/a main character given her position in the story. That is exactly what they did in TL anyways. They couldn't have made such a story changing move during the manga. Has ANYONE seen such an unprecedented, disgusting move be made in any respectable manga? Roles are signified from day 1. I couldn't imagine a manga that continuously swapped, for example, protagonists (if the structure is meant for it to have one).

Also, I never want to hear that breasts had a factor to do with this. These disgusting a** freaks are not only in the wrong manga, but they are in the wrong genre! I could care less if that's harsh, but that's the truth. Isn't the overwhelming majority of fanservice in the manga from Naruto himself? :sigh:

I swear, I can only hope that karma will bite them in the a**...and nicely.

you and I will get along just fine =D

 

Even though like I said, if he chose to do the NH and SS alternative and make it non-canon to the story while NS is canon to the story,  then I could give a flying kitten. It's when he does the NH and SS alternative  and then tries to make it canon is when he goes on my hitlist.

 

So basically as long as he makes NS canon to the story, I could care less if he chooses to do a non-canon NH and SS alternative, because that would basically be like filler episodes of the Anime: weightless.

 

Though, I don't see why he would make an NH and SS alternative anyways, since we all know that if it was purely up to him, NS would be canon without a doubt.


Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 22 November 2020 - 04:42 PM.

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