54175 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

And against opponents who are tailored for fighting Biju / Jinchuriki, no less.

 

Which is even more stupid, and Jiraiya KNEW the Akatsuki were trained to fight Biju and Jinchuriki, even Orochimaru showed it when he and Naruto clashed at the Bridge of Heaven and Earth, since he held his own even when Naruto went berserk with using Kurama's chakra and being consumed by Kurama's rage.

[Kagomaru]

 

Which to me shows how bad Jiraiya was, thinking he could just teach Naruto to control Kurama's chakra and everything would be OK!

And Jiraiya never realized the ramifications that would have on both Naruto's mentality and skill by focusing solely on harnessing Kyuubi's chakra.  After all, the more Naruto depends its chakra, the more the seal degrades, and the more easily Naruto can succumb to Kurama's influence. And of course, having him rely on Kurama's power meant undermining his own strength and abilities, something Naruto himself realized only after Sasuke entered his mind and proved that he could shut off Naruto's connection with Kurama.  Jiraiya did not put much foresight into Naruto's training.

 

Thanks God for Ma and Pa Frog, as well as Killer Bee.

Edited by Kagomaru, 06 December 2019 - 01:23 AM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

And Jiraiya never realized the ramifications that would have on both Naruto's mentality and skill by focusing solely on harnessing Kyuubi's chakra.  After all, the more Naruto depends its chakra, the more the seal degrades, and the more easily Naruto can succumb to Kurama's influence. And of course, having him rely on Kurama's power meant undermining his own strength and abilities, something Naruto himself realized only after Sasuke entered his mind and proved that he could shut off Naruto's connection with Kurama.  Jiraiya did not put much foresight into Naruto's training.

 

Thanks God for Ma and Pa Frog, as well as Killer Bee.

At least until Naruto goes right back to relying on Kurama's chakra...at least after forcibly ripping it out of him and then putting him in a deeper cage.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

And Jiraiya never realized the ramifications that would have on both Naruto's mentality and skill by focusing solely on harnessing Kyuubi's chakra.  After all, the more Naruto depends its chakra, the more the seal degrades, and the more easily Naruto can succumb to Kurama's influence. And of course, having him rely on Kurama's power meant undermining his own strength and abilities, something Naruto himself realized only after Sasuke entered his mind and proved that he could shut off Naruto's connection with Kurama.  Jiraiya did not put much foresight into Naruto's training.

 

Thanks God for Ma and Pa Frog, as well as Killer Bee.

 

 

At least until Naruto goes right back to relying on Kurama's chakra...at least after forcibly ripping it out of him and then putting him in a deeper cage.

 

Exactly, and the fact too that we already have Killer Bee overly relying on Gyuki's chakra. I like to feel a balance is needed for Naruto's use of Kurama's power, which is something I plan to explore in my fanfic, Naruto: The Demon Within. As well as the parallels between Naruto and Killer Bee how they battle. Like how Naruto felt lonely, yet he was able to make himself a better person because of his loneliness and how it's given him empathy for others, while Bee bottled it up to show pride as a Jinchuriki, but came to dislike it deep down due to Ay choosing to keep him locked up after the loss of his father and thinking Bee would only become stronger if he could control a Biju Ball attack, which is why in canon he was so willing to fake his capture at the hands of the Akatsuki to get freedom.

 

I know Fukasaku and Shima, aka Ma and Pa Frog, would play a role too in Naruto undergoing Sage training at some point. Dunno if it's gonna be after Jiraiya dies, or before in TDW, since my co-creator and I haven't talked too much about that, though we know we've altered the canon in many other ways, so it could go either way.

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 06 December 2019 - 05:02 PM.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Today would have been my dad's birthday. He wasn't a anime fan but he was fascinated by it.

[Phantom_999]

My best wishes on your dad’s anniversary

[Nostradamus]

Today would have been my dad's birthday. He wasn't a anime fan but he was fascinated by it.

Like always in such situations I don't know what to say, so I'm just going to keep it simple.

Happy Birthday to your father.

[Phantom_999]

Same with Orochimaru and Kabuto, Sasuke even created his own moves without them knowing. The good teacher teaches you how to think and use what you have learned. Both Sasuke and Sakura used their potential. What advice Jiraiya gave Naruto? "Who needs them seals, let's become 2 trick pony!" and he basicly facerolled enemies, and only got to learn his element far later, falling 2 years behind Sasuke on that part.

 
The depth of Jiraiya's failure to teach Naruto anything useful was already apparent in the VERY first arc of Part II/ Shippuden. Remember when Deidara made off with Gaara's body and Naruto and Kakashi were just chasing him around like hanging a carrot in front of a horse, waiting for Kakashi to charge up his Kamui. Among the many things he DID NOT cover in his lessons with Naruto are range and versatility. I already argued that Odama Rasengan did nothing for Naruto except have the same problems as Chidori in that it drains chakra needlessly and is pointless if you can't hit the target

Edited by Phantom_999, 17 December 2019 - 06:25 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

 

The depth of Jiraiya's failure to tech Naruto anything useful was already apparent in the VERY first arc of Part II/ Shippuden. Remember when Deidara made off with Gaara's body and Naruto and Kakashi were just chasing him around like hanging a carrot in from of a horse, waiting for Kakashi to charge up his Kamui. among the many things he DID NOT coover in his lessons with Naruto are range and versatility. I already argued that Odama Rasengan did nothing for Naruto except have the same problems as Chidori in that it drains chakra needlessly and is pointless if you can't reach the target

Given how far Sakura and Sasuke had come due to their actual training, it makes me think that if Jiraiya had been serious in his training of Naruto, Naruto could've already TRULY mastered the Rasengan (no Kage Bunshin assistance + elemental affinity + throwing it) and WITHOUT needing to rely on outside power to do so (Sage Mode + Kurama chakra). I mean, how could Jiraiya completely forget about the Kage Bunshin's advantage when it comes to training?

[James S Cassidy]

Given how far Sakura and Sasuke had come due to their actual training, it makes me think that if Jiraiya had been serious in his training of Naruto, Naruto could've already TRULY mastered the Rasengan (no Kage Bunshin assistance + elemental affinity + throwing it) and WITHOUT needing to rely on outside power to do so (Sage Mode + Kurama chakra). I mean, how could Jiraiya completely forget about the Kage Bunshin's advantage when it comes to training?

I thought Naruto did learn to do the Rasengan by himself, but chose to do it with clones because that is what he preferred. At least with the RasenShurikan it would make sense to keep the balances.

Anyway, what I am more disturbed is that Naruto did not learn any techniques in wind or Frog Sage. I mean, seriously, I can think of so many ways he could have learned something cool and all he did was "make a bigger Rasengan."

Hell, maybe even learn the Flying Thunder God Technique? Come on. Imagine using his clones combined with it.

Here, SP or Kishimoto, try this: You have the metal from the trees that can be infused with chakra right? Give Naruto a blade like Sasuke like a kodachi and have him use it to manifest wind techniques. Wind shields that block objects, wind attacks like Temari, you know.....USABLE STUFF.

No, what do we get? "Hey guys, I have an idea...let me hit with a Rasengan." That didn't work, Naruto. What else? "A bigger rasengan?" ugh

 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I thought Naruto did learn to do the Rasengan by himself, but chose to do it with clones because that is what he preferred. At least with the RasenShurikan it would make sense to keep the balances.

Anyway, what I am more disturbed is that Naruto did not learn any techniques in wind or Frog Sage. I mean, seriously, I can think of so many ways he could have learned something cool and all he did was "make a bigger Rasengan."

Hell, maybe even learn the Flying Thunder God Technique? Come on. Imagine using his clones combined with it.

Here, SP or Kishimoto, try this: You have the metal from the trees that can be infused with chakra right? Give Naruto a blade like Sasuke like a kodachi and have him use it to manifest wind techniques. Wind shields that block objects, wind attacks like Temari, you know.....USABLE STUFF.

No, what do we get? "Hey guys, I have an idea...let me hit with a Rasengan." That didn't work, Naruto. What else? "A bigger rasengan?" ugh

 

Tell me about it, James. Even for my fanfic, I've had the idea that Naruto ACTUALLY is gonna learn some Wind Style Jutsu before he actually develops the Wind Style: Rasengan and Wind Style: Rasenshuriken. Though you gave me a cool idea about a blade to use with it, like when he used one of Asuma's trench knives as a demo of what to do with Wind Style chakra. It just shows how dumb things are with how Naruto himself turned out as a character and how his fighting abilities turned out. Even someone as close to him among current Shonen Jump heroes, Asta from Black Clover, has grown more significantly in what he can do, and his powers are something that are just nasty if used right in his world.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

No, what do we get? "Hey guys, I have an idea...let me hit with a Rasengan." That didn't work, Naruto. What else? "A bigger rasengan?" ugh

And if that doesn't work? Talk no Jutsu!

BRILLIANT! /s

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

No, what do we get? "Hey guys, I have an idea...let me hit with a Rasengan." That didn't work, Naruto. What else? "A bigger rasengan?" ugh

 

And if that doesn't work? Talk no Jutsu!

BRILLIANT! /s

 

That reminds me of Valve's official Meet The Team videos for Team Fortress 2 with Meet The Engineer when he said "How am I gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing me a superficial new behind? The answer? Use a gun. And if that don't work... use more gun!"

 

But that at least played up for laughs since Team Fortress 2 is more comedy.

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 09 December 2019 - 07:51 PM.

[Phantom_999]

I thought Naruto did learn to do the Rasengan by himself, but chose to do it with clones because that is what he preferred. At least with the RasenShurikan it would make sense to keep the balances.

Anyway, what I am more disturbed is that Naruto did not learn any techniques in wind or Frog Sage. I mean, seriously, I can think of so many ways he could have learned something cool and all he did was "make a bigger Rasengan."

Hell, maybe even learn the Flying Thunder God Technique? Come on. Imagine using his clones combined with it.

Here, SP or Kishimoto, try this: You have the metal from the trees that can be infused with chakra right? Give Naruto a blade like Sasuke like a kodachi and have him use it to manifest wind techniques. Wind shields that block objects, wind attacks like Temari, you know.....USABLE STUFF.

No, what do we get? "Hey guys, I have an idea...let me hit with a Rasengan." That didn't work, Naruto. What else? "A bigger rasengan?" ugh

 

 

And this may be nitpicking on my part since it was so far down the line in comparison to when rasenshuriken was made, but Menma didn't even need clones when he was using his unique looking Rasengan either in Road to ninja. Just wondering why Naruto is always needing "additional help" to create his rasenshuriken with clones or sage/bijuu chakra, but besides the point. Overall there was little to no thought process in Naruto's training compared to Sakura and Sasuke specifically, and it is especially jarring since he is the main character. Now I get that apparently other Main Characters in shonen manga/anime get that treatment too in that they just have a hand full of special attacks/techniques to their name and if that fails they just get this massive power boost and just use the same attack again except that they are hitting way WAY harder but still, how difficult is it to create some new techniques for your main character so they don't feel so limited? Maybe the intent is to emphasize teamwork but guess what, that flew out the window in the early stages of the series already anyway. They were emphasizing how one person has to do something alone with all those typical one vs. one "shonen fights", and there was no emphasis team work since the chuunin exam so that can't even be an excuse anymore.

Edited by Phantom_999, 26 December 2019 - 01:44 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

 

And this may be nitpicking on my part since it was so far down the line in comparison to when rasenshuriken was made, but Menma didn't even need clones when he was using his unique looking Rasengan either in Road to ninja. Just wondering why Naruto is always needing "additional help" to create his rasenshuriken with clones or sage/bijuu chakra, but besides the point. Overall there was little to no thought process in Naruto's training compared to Sakura and Sasuke especially and it is especially jarring since he is the main character. Now I get that apparently other Main characters in shonen manga get that treatment too in that they just have a hand full of special attacks to their name and if that fails they just get this massive power boost and just use the same attack again except that they are hitting way WAY harder but still, how difficult is it to create some new techniques for your main character so they don't feel so limited? Maybe the intent is to emphasize teamwork but guess what, that flew out the window early stages of the series already anyway. They were emphasizing how one person has to do something alone with all those typical one "shonen fights", and there was no emphasis team work since the chunin exam so that can't even be an excuse anymore.

The messages in Naruto that it TRIED to tell were self-defeating at every single step of the way. They talk about underdogs? The only ones to prove anything was Rock Lee and Sakura and yet they got shafted in the end. They talk about Bonds and yet they were immediately abandoned for "lurve" and shallow romantic subplots. They talk about self-worth and yet all that came about was popularity. They talk about forgiveness and yet all they did show was favoritism.

The evil people got rewarded and the good guys got punished.

Neji was right. He was right about everything.

"Oh so you think just anyone can be Hokage?"

That question still rangs true to this day. Get rekted, Naruto.

[Illnevergiveup3]

to be honest, a Rasengan fits Naruto. In my opinion, him having a sword wouldnt fit Narutos fighting style. It fit more with Sasuke. But he could have come up with more tech unique than the Rasengan.

[James S Cassidy]

to be honest, a Rasengan fits Naruto. In my opinion, him having a sword wouldnt fit Narutos fighting style. It fit more with Sasuke. But he could have come up with more tech unique than the Rasengan.

Not a sword. A Kodachi.

These are supposed to be ninja after all. Just saying.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 11 December 2019 - 06:55 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Not a sword. A Kodachi.

These are supposed to be ninja after all. Just saying.

Not your average ninja, but a kodachi would be cool. Or something like what Kakashi's dad Sakumo used in action and what Kakashi briefly used before it was shattered in Kakashi Gaiden would have been fun for Naruto.

[Phantom_999]

The messages in Naruto that it TRIED to tell were self-defeating at every single step of the way. They talk about underdogs? The only ones to prove anything was Rock Lee and Sakura and yet they got shafted in the end. They talk about Bonds and yet they were immediately abandoned for "lurve" and shallow romantic subplots. They talk about self-worth and yet all that came about was popularity. They talk about forgiveness and yet all they did show was favoritism.

The evil people got rewarded and the good guys got punished.

Neji was right. He was right about everything.

"Oh so you think just anyone can be Hokage?"

That question still rangs true to this day. Get rekted, Naruto.

 

Even sadder with the way that one shot was written, it seems Naruto Nardo only became Hokage as a shallow afterthought at best. THAT is how the main character achieves his life long dream. It was was pity handed to him because of favourtism and that he deserves it, not earned it, he over slept on his big day, essentially became the source of slapstick for his kids and he wasn't even present for his office appointment ceremony.

 

 

to be honest, a Rasengan fits Naruto. In my opinion, him having a sword wouldnt fit Narutos fighting style. It fit more with Sasuke. But he could have come up with more tech unique than the Rasengan.

 

I always imagined with a special kunai or knife similar to his father except that he infuses it with wind Chakra instead teleporting with it although space-time jutsu would also be fantastic for him. Think of the possibilities if he combined that with his clones. Range would be no issue for him anymore

Edited by Phantom_999, 11 December 2019 - 11:42 PM.

[totherpage95]

 

 
Even sadder with the way that one shot was written, it seems Naruto Nardo only became Hokage as a shallow afterthought at best. THAT is how the main character achieves his life long dream. It was was pity handed to him because of favourtism and that he deserves it, not earned it, he over slept on his big day, essentially became the source of slapstick for his kids and he wasn't even present for his office appointment ceremony.
 
 
 
I always imagined with a special kunai or knife similar to his father except that he infuses it with wind Chakra instead teleporting with it although space-time jutsu would also be fantastic for him. Think of the possibilities if he combined that with his clones. Range would be no issue for him anymore

Also the sage mode mixed with nine tails you see when he talks to nagato would be cool

Edited by totherpage95, 12 December 2019 - 02:53 AM.