178 replies to this topic

[shiroihato]

Reding via cell phone....like, wtf? small print... @_@

No, just about 42 "pages" (way to small to be called a page) per a part and A LOT of scrolling. Although the pictures didn't load.

[Rick (Bonta-kun)]

this was awesome, it actually made me think about quite a few things i missed when i read the manga, mainly about naruto and sakuras interaction in part 1.

i wonder what the NaruHina and SasuSaku fans say when they look at this, probably just outright deny everything like ive seen them do alot.

[Mizura]

Oh ick, 42 pages.

i wonder what the NaruHina and SasuSaku fans say when they look at this, probably just outright deny everything like ive seen them do alot.

They say that it's too long to read.

[Hopestar]

this was awesome, it actually made me think about quite a few things i missed when i read the manga, mainly about naruto and sakuras interaction in part 1.

i wonder what the NaruHina and SasuSaku fans say when they look at this, probably just outright deny everything like ive seen them do alot.

I post that on NS Vs. SS some understood it while others just brush it off as if it was nothing.

[ChibiChan]

i wonder what the NaruHina and SasuSaku fans say when they look at this, probably just outright deny everything like ive seen them do alot.

Yes, yes in fact many of them do
Mizura's essay is GENIUS...it does wonders! She has become a NaruSaku LEGEND with this!
And a lot of the more well-tempered NaruHina/SasuSaku fans even agree with the points made or even convert! Because seriously, everything mentioned is true.

But the more rabid and majority of the fans resort to:
1.) Simple flaming of the NaruSaku community saying how "we don't look at the whole picture" or something like that.
2.) Denial like you mentioned; simple as that xD Just to protect their faith...coz they know in their hearts that the narusaku essay is the truth.
3.) Or...Good HEAVENS, try to replicate it with a counter-attack essay trying to defend their pairing(s).

The "NaruHina Essay" o___o
A Counter to Our Beloved Manifesto

I tried to read these, but it was like pulling teeth o_______o If any of you are up to the challenge, feel free!

[Rick (Bonta-kun)]

Yes, yes in fact many of them do
Mizura's essay is GENIUS...it does wonders! She has become a NaruSaku LEGEND with this!
And a lot of the more well-tempered NaruHina/SasuSaku fans even agree with the points made or even convert! Because seriously, everything mentioned is true.

But the more rabid and majority of the fans resort to:
1.) Simple flaming of the NaruSaku community saying how "we don't look at the whole picture" or something like that.
2.) Denial like you mentioned; simple as that xD Just to protect their faith...coz they know in their hearts that the narusaku essay is the truth.
3.) Or...Good HEAVENS, try to replicate it with a counter-attack essay trying to defend their pairing(s).

The "NaruHina Essay" o___o
A Counter to Our Beloved Manifesto

I tried to read these, but it was like pulling teeth o_______o If any of you are up to the challenge, feel free!

wtf, who makes an anti version of an anti-pairing essay? lol

damn, kinda strange, although the only essay ive read is the NaruSaku one, thats the only thing im interesting in really.

im considering reading that later, but i probably wont

[Fox-And-Flower]

Yes, yes in fact many of them do
Mizura's essay is GENIUS...it does wonders! She has become a NaruSaku LEGEND with this!
And a lot of the more well-tempered NaruHina/SasuSaku fans even agree with the points made or even convert! Because seriously, everything mentioned is true.

But the more rabid and majority of the fans resort to:
1.) Simple flaming of the NaruSaku community saying how "we don't look at the whole picture" or something like that.
2.) Denial like you mentioned; simple as that xD Just to protect their faith...coz they know in their hearts that the narusaku essay is the truth.
3.) Or...Good HEAVENS, try to replicate it with a counter-attack essay trying to defend their pairing(s).

The "NaruHina Essay" o___o
A Counter to Our Beloved Manifesto

I tried to read these, but it was like pulling teeth o_______o If any of you are up to the challenge, feel free!

i read it... all of it, and i died a little inside... but then i read mizura's narusaku essay again and i feel very happy and alive again never reading those again, srry

[Nick Soapdish]

Yes, yes in fact many of them do
Mizura's essay is GENIUS...it does wonders! She has become a NaruSaku LEGEND with this!
And a lot of the more well-tempered NaruHina/SasuSaku fans even agree with the points made or even convert! Because seriously, everything mentioned is true.

But the more rabid and majority of the fans resort to:
1.) Simple flaming of the NaruSaku community saying how "we don't look at the whole picture" or something like that.
2.) Denial like you mentioned; simple as that xD Just to protect their faith...coz they know in their hearts that the narusaku essay is the truth.
3.) Or...Good HEAVENS, try to replicate it with a counter-attack essay trying to defend their pairing(s).

The "NaruHina Essay" o___o
A Counter to Our Beloved Manifesto

I tried to read these, but it was like pulling teeth o_______o If any of you are up to the challenge, feel free!

I'd like you to avoid making assumptions like the "majority" of the fans. I don't think the more rabid fans are the majority.

I was going to ask that you not describe it as a counter-attack essay, but that's actually how the essay describes itself.

But it's not a counter to the NaruSaku Manifesto. It's a counter to Mizura's essay on why she dislikes NaruHina as a Hinata fan.

[ChibiChan]

I'd like you to avoid making assumptions like the "majority" of the fans. I don't think the more rabid fans are the majority.

I was going to ask that you not describe it as a counter-attack essay, but that's actually how the essay describes itself.

But it's not a counter to the NaruSaku Manifesto. It's a counter to Mizura's essay on why she dislikes NaruHina as a Hinata fan.

Yeah sorry I got a little carried away
I've been doing that a lot lately...my god...
And as far as the rabid fan thing, i'm probably wrong, but it's just that the majority of the fans i've talked to are quite rabid :shamefulcry0js:
Okay i'll just declare myself officially owned

[Rick (Bonta-kun)]

I'd like you to avoid making assumptions like the "majority" of the fans. I don't think the more rabid fans are the majority.

I was going to ask that you not describe it as a counter-attack essay, but that's actually how the essay describes itself.

But it's not a counter to the NaruSaku Manifesto. It's a counter to Mizura's essay on why she dislikes NaruHina as a Hinata fan.

just out of curiosity nick, how do those 2 essays fair against each other? or anyone else who has read both can answer this too, atm im too lazy to read the 26k words or whatever it is lol

[Daidoji_Tangen]

just out of curiosity nick, how do those 2 essays fair against each other? or anyone else who has read both can answer this too, atm im too lazy to read the 26k words or whatever it is lol

I read the first a long time ago. I ripped it to shreds and posted the obviously wrong parts and faulty logic (unforuntely, I forgot where). It's bad.

The second one (I read yesterday) is actually pretty decent. There's a couple of logic problems like referring to the first essay like it's not terribly flawed, misunderstanding* of why Naruto likes Sakura, misinterrupts what Mizura means or interrupts something differently with the assumption Mizura is wrong (honestly, from an objective viewpoint, either could be right), and **dirty argueing tricks.

I'll try to find my counter to the first one (I think it's on one of two Threads on tv.com). I'll post on the NaruSaku debate forum if I find it. Of course if it's not on one of those Threads, I'm going to considered lost in the vastness of forums.

Anyways, the first is a poor defense of NaruHina. The second is a decently intelligent counter to Mizura's anti-NaruHina essay. I can't say how good because I'm heavily biased and can't judge fair.

*She thinks Naruto likes Sakura only looking for acknowledgement and ignores the fact that Sakura, like Naruto, was willing to fight for it. Hinata was not. Also, it never answers the obvious question of why Naruto would like Hinata over Sakura if his reason for liking her would be the same reason.

** The dirty tricks are few and far in between. One is she argues Hinata shares or could share as much of or more of Naruto's problems than Sakura can (except Sasuke which she emphasis is temperary). But she never goes into the detailed arguments like Mizura's handy little chart does. She just says it repeatedly and makes vague arguments (I didn't even know what they were and had to refer to her previous arguments to figure out what she was talking about).

The second is saying that Mizura's reasons for NaruSaku are mainly circumstancial. Alot of NaruSaku is circumstancial because of being on the same team. But that's life. You fall for those you actually have contact with. But she ignores Mizura's heavy emphasis on Naruto's and Sakura's personalities be a great fit for each other.

EDIT: Though oddly enough her essay got me thinking NejiHina has a good shot.

[Nick Soapdish]

Anyways, the first is a poor defense of NaruSaku. The second is a decently intelligent counter to Mizura's anti-NaruHina essay. I can't say how good because I'm heavily biased and can't judge fair.

I think that you meant a poor defense of NaruHina.

I think that Darkhope's arguing has improved a bit since she wrote that one. I wouldn't call it "bad" and I know that it's won over at least one fan (who now likes both), but I wasn't terribly impressed.

[Daidoji_Tangen]

I think that you meant a poor defense of NaruHina.

I think that Darkhope's arguing has improved a bit since she wrote that one. I wouldn't call it "bad" and I know that it's won over at least one fan (who now likes both), but I wasn't terribly impressed.

Thanks for catching that. Unfortunely, I couldn't find my counter to it.

[Mizura]

EDIT: Though oddly enough her essay got me thinking NejiHina has a good shot.

Whoo-hoo!

The second is saying that Mizura's reasons for NaruSaku are mainly circumstancial. Alot of NaruSaku is circumstancial because of being on the same team. But that's life.

Indeed, and besides, I think NaruHina is even More circumstantial: given Kishimoto's character design process (start with a theme a character connects to Naruto on First, design character, including background, Later), Hinata's whole background was designed Specifically to connect with that one (but only one) aspect of Naruto's. She was purposely given a past so that she can identify with Naruto. If she were in a family where she wasn't considered a loser etc etc, she'd probably have the same level of interaction with him as say... between Naruto and Tenten or any other character he has no connections to.

NaruSaku, by contrast, does not connect through "zomg! We're the same! We both have [insert tragic background thingy]" The Sasuke aspect and Sakura feeling bad for Naruto's tragic past only came into play Later. In the meantime, Sakura started warming up to Naruto just through normal interactions, like a normal relationship. She wasn't Created just so that she can understand Naruto, on the contrary, she wasn't pre-defined to understand (one aspect of) Naruto. She just came to warm up to him because they interact and get along well. I happen to like that. No shortcuts. ^^

The second is saying that Mizura's reasons for NaruSaku are mainly circumstancial. Alot of NaruSaku is circumstancial because of being on the same team. But that's life.

I think that was the dumbest one yet. I say Hinata isn't relevant to Naruto's current problems because it isn't part of her character purpose.

Her reply: "Zomg, Kishimoto can Make Hinata relevant!" She doesn't say how though, and completely ignores Kishimoto's support character design process, she just assumes that anything can happen when this is not true, since shounen mangas have to follow certain constraints.

No need to say, I lol'ed when Hinata didn't even react more than Kiba and Shino to the revelation that Naruto is a jinchuuriki.

Honestly though, the development will be either NaruSaku or SasuSaku. Especially now that the plots are converging, Naruto and the rest of the main cast will likely increasingly be reserved for the main plotlines, as opposed to interactions with side characters. Naruto's screentime isn't "free:" if he's a major focus, then he has to show something new in order to avoid redundancy, but there's only so many new cards he can pull out, so what remains is likely reserved for his final fight (that would exclude the supporting cast).

[Enermil]

I think that was the dumbest one yet. I say Hinata isn't relevant to Naruto's current problems because it isn't part of her character purpose.

Her reply: "Zomg, Kishimoto can Make Hinata relevant!" She doesn't say how though, and completely ignores Kishimoto's support character design process, she just assumes that anything can happen when this is not true, since shounen mangas have to follow certain constraints.

No need to say, I lol'ed when Hinata didn't even react more than Kiba and Shino to the revelation that Naruto is a jinchuuriki.

Honestly... I just don´t understand some NaruHina and Hinata fans. They kept talking about her as if she was the female lead character of this series and as if she has this deep connection with Naruto that no other has.

She isn´t relevant enough in the plot. Her time was in the chuunins exams (when Kishi developped also others past and characters) and her character was worked so Naruto and Neji fight could be "more" emotional. Her theme (as stated by Kishimoto) was tied closely to tat of Neji and Lee and the three of them were tied to Naruto. But that´s all.

There´s no time for Hinata to have a sudden and large impact on the plot right now. With Sasuke quest for vengeance, Madara wanting the true power of the sharingan, root and Danzo threat to Konoha, Akatsuki capturing the last two bijuus and Sasuke pursuing Naruto... I just can´t see how Hinata can gain that special role that could connect her to Naruto. Her role in part 2 will be the same as Neji and Rock Lee in the best case.

[Mizura]

To my understanding, especially after Pein appeared this arc, some NaruHina fans reasoned that Kishimoto has been purposely holding Hinata back this arc so that next arc (or something), she will confront Blue/Konan.

I don't know. While I do believe that Kishimoto has been holding back the support cast, it is one thing to hold off showing the blunt of 2.5 years of training improvements because the mangaka is running out of ideas so is showing said improvements as slowly as possible, and another to "hold back" development of a relationship that has gone nowhere in 2.5 years and that still needs a hell lot of development, even more than NaruSaku and SasuSaku.

*shrugs*

[Power06]

To my understanding, especially after Pein appeared this arc, some NaruHina fans reasoned that Kishimoto has been purposely holding Hinata back this arc so that next arc (or something), she will confront Blue/Konan.

I don't know. While I do believe that Kishimoto has been holding back the support cast, it is one thing to hold off showing the blunt of 2.5 years of training improvements because the mangaka is running out of ideas so is showing said improvements as slowly as possible, and another to "hold back" development of a relationship that has gone nowhere in 2.5 years and that still needs a hell lot of development, even more than NaruSaku and SasuSaku.

*shrugs*

I dont know how much improvement will be done is such time especially after 2.5 years. Hinata may have grown to be a formidable ninja, but she is still the same around Naruto, always freaking out and fainting when he gets REAL close to her. The thing I always looked at is how she react when Naruto's inner darkness comes alive?

Meh, I think I am just rambling.

[Enermil]

To my understanding, especially after Pein appeared this arc, some NaruHina fans reasoned that Kishimoto has been purposely holding Hinata back this arc so that next arc (or something), she will confront Blue/Konan.

I don't know. While I do believe that Kishimoto has been holding back the support cast, it is one thing to hold off showing the blunt of 2.5 years of training improvements because the mangaka is running out of ideas so is showing said improvements as slowly as possible, and another to "hold back" development of a relationship that has gone nowhere in 2.5 years and that still needs a hell lot of development, even more than NaruSaku and SasuSaku.

*shrugs*

Really? They´re saying that? What´s the matter with these people? Can´t they understand that Hinata is a minor character and only major characters (Shikamaru being someone between the two kinds) fight against the Akatsuki? Is more probably that BH will be Sakura´s final villain so we can see how she has surpassed Tsunade. Like Itachi is reserved to Sasuke and Pein is reserved to Naruto.

Seriously, maybe some of them are heavily influenced by Hinata´s filler moments? She is a minor character, less important that even Lee or Neji, she is on the level of Kiba, Chouji or Ino.

Some NaruHina don´t understand that the main female character is Sakura. As you said, let the manga speak for itself. Boy, how I enjoyed Hinata´s lack of reaction to Naruto being kyuubi´s jinchuuriki. And how the whole Hinata paired with Naruto and Sakura following Sasuke´s scent meant nothing.

[Power06]

I'm sure even as this is a shounen Manga, people can see how Naruto and Sakura's relationship is developing over time. It's not mushy and serious, nor is it bland. I like to call it real and genuine. Going through the hardships together and finding a way to become victorious. I am not putting NaruHina down, but I honestly just can't find the depth it has like NaruSaku. *sigh*

[Mizura]

Really? They´re saying that?

Don't look at me. I lol'ed, then I gaped when I realized that they were serious. :o

I do think Hinata will have a good fight (just... not this arc), but then again I think the entirety of the current-generation supporting cast will have a major fight before the end (the support cast essay I linked to explained it more in detail). Even though I'm a big fan of Hinata, structurally-wise, she isn't that important (and I don't see a problem with that. I like Neji and Lee too, also not That important. And Rin and Shodai, who are dead and staying dead...).

I'm sure even as this is a shounen Manga, people can see how Naruto and Sakura's relationship is developing over time.

Actually, people are calling it "red herring" and "friendship/brother-sister" (strange, I could have Sworn that Naruto/Sasuke has already got the "best friends/siblings" slot filled) only. >.>

But agreed on the real and genuine part!