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#1 jak123

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:43 PM

I don't consider myself a shipper. I'm usually okay with most end pairings in anime/manga. It's very rare for me to hate one and that's usually because I dislike one of the characters that is part of that pairing. My god though, Naruto's ending DROPPED the ball. I do not understand the end pairings at all. The only one that makes any sort of sense to me is Shikamaru and Temari.
 
Ino and Sai? What? - I felt that Ino only ended up with Sai because he took Sasuke's place. 
 
Chouji and "random lightning village girl" - I honestly thought in the end that he would end up with Ino because they were pretty close. To me that would have made more sense honestly because it would have shown Ino to mature and get over her shallow crush of Sasuke. 
 
Naruto and Hinata - Um, in what world does this pairing make sense? All of Hinata's love for Naruto came of as a shallow crush. The same kind of shallow crush that Sakura and Ino had for Sasuke. The Last tried to hamfist all the development they never got in the main story and it still didn't feel like Naruto actually loved her. I'm sure it's been counted, but how many times did they truly interact? Even when Hinata confessed her love for Naruto, it seems like I remember Sakura being the one to embrace him after the fight with Pain. If Hinata was truly supposed to end up with Naruto, she should have been there way more than Sakura was.
 
Sakura and Sasuke - Easily the worst and most dysfunctional pairing of the entire series. Not only did Sasuke show no interest in her, if I remember correctly, one of the most prominent memories (even though that's hardly any) that Sakura has of Sasuke was actually Naruto in disguise. He tried to kill her multiple times and to me the most prominent showing that he didn't care for her is when he "stabbed" her in the heart so she wouldn't interfere with Naruto and his fight. That screams symbolism. Even in that kittenshow that is Boruto, Sasuke basically neglects his family. In the Boruto movie, I remember it showing them together once and they just stood there looking in the distance and not ever actually interacting with each other.
 
I just don't get it. I don't get how anyone who read the 700 chapters could see any plausible end couple besides Naruto and Sakura. The entire second half seemed like she cared more about Naruto and only wanted to bring Sasuke back because he was part of Team 7. Why have all that development between Naruto and Sakura (The embracing, the comparison to his mother, and all the moments they have together) if you aren't going to have them end up together in the end? There's no way that anyone would think that's a good idea unless you are a terrible writer who doesn't know what the kitten they are doing. I usually defend when a writer when they make a choice that's disliked by the reader, but in this case considering how poorly written it was, I just can't.
 
Someone explain this to me.

Edited by jak123, 22 January 2018 - 04:46 AM.


#2 winter-serenade

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 07:03 PM

This is a question many have asked ever since the ending. Honestly, most of us cant figure it out. Kishimoto has set everything up. They had solid development, solid scenes, a solid relationship, and overall solid reason for them to be together. All he had to do was make them canon, or at least imply that their relationship took a bigger step forward.

But he made NaruHina and SasuSaku canon, and people wondered why. Interview after interview, contradiction after contradiction, and before you knew it, The Last released and people were even more confused.

I thought Naruto loved Sakura?

Wait, his feelings were for rivalry?

Hinatas the one with the pale eyes, right?

People were confused. And the people involved with the movie had to bait people to watching it and remove refunds. Kakashi and Sasuke are presented on the movie poster like they are prominent characters in the movie. Why does Sasuke only appear for 30 seconds? Why does Kakashi have less than 5 scenes? Why is a side character getting the spotlight all of a sudden? Kishimoto suddenly claimed Hinata was the heroine and Sakura was Kibas level of importance. The already distorted reliability of Kishimotos, the creator, own words becomes somehow even more distorted.

We know what happened: Kishimoto made a sharp left turn from everything, from the original message of Naruto, from the developed romantic relationship of the hero and heroine, and many more. I think the real question is, why?

Edited by winter-serenade, 20 January 2018 - 07:05 PM.


#3 Nostradamus

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 07:14 PM

The ending wasn't actually the ending.

It was a kickstarter to jump start a new series in order to continue the money coming. It was a business decision done by people who had no idea what they were doing and had no idea what they were selling. They just made a decision that they believed will bring them the most amount of money.

And they believed a new series is the way to go. They wanted to make something as cheaply as possible. So what's the best way to do that? Well just rehash the old stuff with small changes and call it a day. Just look at how little thought went into creating the name for the new cough old cough series. It's just the same with name with two letters changed.


Edited by Nostradamus, 20 January 2018 - 07:22 PM.

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#4 jak123

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 08:29 PM

The ending wasn't actually the ending.

It was a kickstarter to jump start a new series in order to continue the money coming. It was a business decision done by people who had no idea what they were doing and had no idea what they were selling. They just made a decision that they believed will bring them the most amount of money.

And they believed a new series is the way to go. They wanted to make something as cheaply as possible. So what's the best way to do that? Well just rehash the old stuff with small changes and call it a day. Just look at how little thought went into creating the name for the new cough old cough series. It's just the same with name with two letters changed.

I just wish someone would do a doujin series where it was an alternate ending. Hell, you could keep Boruto and Sarada because I have this theory. They were created with only their fathers in mind and their designs have absolutely no input from their mothers. Karin could be Sarada's mother. Which honestly Sarada is the most interesting character in the series, and it would make her more interesting because she would have that connection of being an Uzumaki. Sakura could easily be Boruto's mother. I feel as though Sakura wouldn't be lifeless married to Naruto.



#5 Yyubie

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 08:30 PM

@jak123

First of all , welcome to the forum , we hope you enjoy it here , long ago the forum used to be crowded with lot's of member but as you might guess , when the ending roll in more than half of them decide to forget this thing ever exist , moved on and leave the forum.

 

I agree with you , but i think the fall of Naruto is the combination of many things. Some of the higher ups in SP/SJ see Naruto as gold mine and of course there are some that prefer quality story telling. But ultimately those who see Naruto as a gold mine not as a piece of art wins because they think NH fans outside Japan is more profitable then their own fans in Japan , the editor change and start to feed Kishi this info that Hinata should be heroine and NH should be cannon , of course i believe Kishi might refuse to believe this at first , but then this new editor give him bunch of kitten evidence , like popularity polls or vote and videos of sawyer and forneverworld those two happen to be NH fans. Everything else is pretty much what Winter-Serenade and Nostradamus said above me. They don't want to stop because they thirst and hunger for those time when Naruto during pein arc gave them million of money and they want to repeat that history , so they can't let Naruto franchise end , and that's is why there is his son boruto.


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#6 Kasimir38

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 08:49 PM

Beside the reason why Kishimoto made that decision...I also don't understand how anyone can defend the ending with so much speaking against it. Let us put aside the shippings and concentrate a bit about the main story: Naruto is still after Sasuke even though he tried to kill him (and Sakura and other people he cared for) several times. The complete lack of common sense made Naruto a character that kind of suits no - opinion Hinata. Narutos dream, his famous words: Hokage dattebayo? And what do we get? A severely depressed father of a brat that missed his own ceremony. Ok, maybe I am just angry, but this is not the Naruto that he was before, he is so...shapeless. I don't want to talk about Sakura. Let's move on to Hinata:

 

She was there for him? Where? Show me some evidence.

She loved him before everyone else? She had a CRUSH on him. I also think she is more dependent of him than really loving him.

 

She is like Kushina? Sakura is, like, Kushinas clone, Hinata has also nothing in common with Minato, only their calm attitude. She is weak, has no backbone and totally lacks of character. Hate on me for all I care, but this famous: She is like Kushina - was totally twisted by all that Pro - enders and Hinata - chan - lunatics and made into : She is like Minato and Naruto is like Kushina just to make a comparison to them. Minato and Kushina are nothing like Naruto and Hinata, their relationship is so different. Naruto only started to notice Hinata when they were...20? And they also needed a whole movie to make it more believable. NaruSaku wouldn't have needed a movie, everyone would have understood where this came from.

 

There are just many people that dislike Sakura for whatever reason, so that's why NaruHina became canon. It's not surprising that some authors decide for the end their fans wished for, but there were so many ways to make it more believable. Happily I wasn't reading Naruto anymore, I can picture the faces of all the NS shippers when they read chapter 700.

Don't get me wrong, I don't really hate Hinata as a character, she would have made a nice girlfriend for Shino or Kiba or someone else, but Sakura was the main heroine all along and it's just not right to deny that.


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#7 James S Cassidy

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 11:00 PM

What happened? Fanboys happened.
 

 

She was there for him? Where? Show me some evidence.

She loved him before everyone else? She had a CRUSH on him. I also think she is more dependent of him than really loving him.

One thing that still urks me to this day. Naruto's crush on Sakura is just a crush and he didn't understand love, but Hinata apparently knows exactly what true love is since age 4?

I always love the double standard.

What about Ino who loved Sasuke? "Oh that was just a childish crush"
What about Karin wholoved Sasuke? "Oh that was just a childish crush."
What about Lee who loved Sakura? "Oh that was just a childish crush"
What about Naruto who loved Sakura? "Oh that was just a childish crush"
What about the Lover-nin who loved Sakura? "Oh that was just a childish crush"

What about "this character" who loves Naruto? "Oh that was just a childish crush"

Sasuke and Sakura/Naruto and Hinata? "OMG TRUE LOVE AT IT'S FINEST"


Why is all other love in this series considered "childish crush," but only Hinata's love for Naruto is the purest love there is? Apparently only Hinata knew about true love since day 1. She was born being in love with Naruto apparently and knew more about true love than even most adults. I bet you they would say Kushina and Minato are childish crushes.


"She is like Kushina? Sakura is, like, Kushinas clone, Hinata has also nothing in common with Minato, only their calm attitude. She is weak, has no backbone and totally lacks of character. Hate on me for all I care, but this famous: She is like Kushina - was totally twisted by all that Pro - enders and Hinata - chan - lunatics and made into : She is like Minato and Naruto is like Kushina just to make a comparison to them. Minato and Kushina are nothing like Naruto and Hinata,"

 

Again, just like up above, it only counts when it involves Hinata.

Naruto and Sakura compared to Minato and Kushina? Oh parallels don't mean anything.
Naruto and Sakura compared to Jiraiya and Tsunade? Oh parallels don't mean anything.
Naruto and Sakura are compared to Obito and Rin? Oh parallels don't mean anything.
Naruto and HInata? "Oh they are just like Minato and Kushina. It makes sense. Hinata has long hair, Kushina had long hair....they are exactly alike."

 


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#8 Gravenimage

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:41 AM

What happened? Fanboys happened.
 

 

One thing that still urks me to this day. Naruto's crush on Sakura is just a crush and he didn't understand love, but Hinata apparently knows exactly what true love is since age 4?

I always love the double standard.

What about Ino who loved Sasuke? "Oh that was just a childish crush"
What about Karin wholoved Sasuke? "Oh that was just a childish crush."
What about Lee who loved Sakura? "Oh that was just a childish crush"
What about Naruto who loved Sakura? "Oh that was just a childish crush"
What about the Lover-nin who loved Sakura? "Oh that was just a childish crush"

What about "this character" who loves Naruto? "Oh that was just a childish crush"

Sasuke and Sakura/Naruto and Hinata? "OMG TRUE LOVE AT IT'S FINEST"


Why is all other love in this series considered "childish crush," but only Hinata's love for Naruto is the purest love there is? Apparently only Hinata knew about true love since day 1. She was born being in love with Naruto apparently and knew more about true love than even most adults. I bet you they would say Kushina and Minato are childish crushes.

Again, just like up above, it only counts when it involves Hinata.

Naruto and Sakura compared to Minato and Kushina? Oh parallels don't mean anything.
Naruto and Sakura compared to Jiraiya and Tsunade? Oh parallels don't mean anything.
Naruto and Sakura are compared to Obito and Rin? Oh parallels don't mean anything.
Naruto and HInata? "Oh they are just like Minato and Kushina. It makes sense. Hinata has long hair, Kushina had long hair....they are exactly alike."

 

 

Nothing but hypocrisy at its finest. :zaru:


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#9 jak123

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 03:15 AM

Naruto and Sakura compared to Minato and Kushina? Oh parallels don't mean anything.

Naruto and Sakura compared to Jiraiya and Tsunade? Oh parallels don't mean anything.
Naruto and Sakura are compared to Obito and Rin? Oh parallels don't mean anything.
Naruto and HInata? "Oh they are just like Minato and Kushina. It makes sense. Hinata has long hair, Kushina had long hair....they are exactly alike."

 

See that's another thing that bothered me. He has all these groups of 3 that were exactly like Naruto/Sakura/Sasuke and the "Naruto" ALL lose. 

 

It was implied that Jiraya liked Tsunade, but she chose Dan. Though, it seems like I remember them having a moment before he goes off to fight Pain where it implied that Tsunade had feelings for him as well.

 

The best comparison was Obito/Rin/Kakashi. Kakashi (Sasuke) showed no interest in Rin (Sakura). Rin was googly eyed over the "cool" Kakashi, and Obito (Naruto) was the late starter. At least in the end, Rin was the one to greet Obito when he died. 

 

Makes you wonder. If Sakura dies first, would she be the one to greet Naruto when he died? Probably. XD

 

So another good reason for Naruto and Sakura to end up together from just a writing standpoint would have shown it breaking a cycle that kept occurring.


Edited by jak123, 21 January 2018 - 03:17 AM.


#10 Kasimir38

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 11:23 AM

Isn't it strange that all those Pro - Enders make so much, (awful) fanart showing ideal family scenarios of SasuSaku, NaruHina? I mean, if they have a perfect family and life and everything was foreshadowed, why making SO MANY fanarts about it over and over and over....Fanart is usually, idk, used to show things that aren't canon (yet) or scenarios the creator hasn't shown, so...isn't it irony that they feel the need of shoving that NH and SasuSaku stuff into everyones faces, - lobbyism at it's finest. :th_yeah:

 

And I'm like, why is everyone so determined to show that Naruto and Hinata and Sakura and Sasuke are happy in their marriage? I mean, fanart Sasuke is the best father ever, fanart Hinata is pretty and fanart Sakura kind of, doesn't care for Naruto, because everywhere it's shown that she only calms down when Sasuke interferes or she even beats up Naruto sometimes. Like, wat? And what's the answer? - Only because it wasnt shown in the manga doesn't mean it didn't happen. Talking about twisting the story and hypocrites. I bet everyone that supports the ending actually thinks ^ that line, because "Just because Hinata didn't talk with Naruto it doesn't mean she never did." -WELL YEAH THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS


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#11 jak123

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 04:50 PM

 "Just because Hinata didn't talk with Naruto it doesn't mean she never did."

I mean, I do believe off screen development exists, but usually the important parts are still shown. All the important parts happened with Sakura when they should have happened with Hinata if she is supposedly the female lead. Which if you asked anyone besides Kishimoto, it would be Sakura.


Edited by jak123, 21 January 2018 - 06:28 PM.


#12 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 06:21 PM

I mean, I do believe off screen development exists, but usually the important parts are still shown. All the important parts happened with Sakura when they should have happened with Hinata is she is supposedly the female lead. Which if you asked anyone besides Kishimoto, it would be Sakura.

 

Exactly, man!



#13 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 07:37 PM

I mean, I do believe off screen development exists, but usually the important parts are still shown. All the important parts happened with Sakura when they should have happened with Hinata if she is supposedly the female lead. Which if you asked anyone besides Kishimoto, it would be Sakura.

And good off-screen development is usually preceded by good on-screen development.

In Naruto's case, if they didn't drop the ball (more like hurled it away as hard as they could), and continued with NS the way the narrative was clearly going, then a time skip to years later showing them having gotten married and had kids and such would be good off-screen development because it's simply how the narrative would logically proceed based on what we have already been shown, and so the results are completely believable.


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#14 jak123

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 09:58 PM

And good off-screen development is usually preceded by good on-screen development.

In Naruto's case, if they didn't drop the ball (more like hurled it away as hard as they could), and continued with NS the way the narrative was clearly going, then a time skip to years later showing them having gotten married and had kids and such would be good off-screen development because it's simply how the narrative would logically proceed based on what we have already been shown, and so the results are completely believable.

Exactly.



#15 James S Cassidy

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 09:41 PM

Isn't it strange that all those Pro - Enders make so much, (awful) fanart showing ideal family scenarios of SasuSaku, NaruHina? I mean, if they have a perfect family and life and everything was foreshadowed, why making SO MANY fanarts about it over and over and over....Fanart is usually, idk, used to show things that aren't canon (yet) or scenarios the creator hasn't shown, so...isn't it irony that they feel the need of shoving that NH and SasuSaku stuff into everyones faces, - lobbyism at it's finest. :th_yeah:

 

And I'm like, why is everyone so determined to show that Naruto and Hinata and Sakura and Sasuke are happy in their marriage? I mean, fanart Sasuke is the best father ever, fanart Hinata is pretty and fanart Sakura kind of, doesn't care for Naruto, because everywhere it's shown that she only calms down when Sasuke interferes or she even beats up Naruto sometimes. Like, wat? And what's the answer? - Only because it wasnt shown in the manga doesn't mean it didn't happen. Talking about twisting the story and hypocrites. I bet everyone that supports the ending actually thinks ^ that line, because "Just because Hinata didn't talk with Naruto it doesn't mean she never did." -WELL YEAH THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS

No, not strange at all. Even Analyzer couldn't give an answer for that one. If the ending is so perfect, why are people still making fanfictions and fanart that are counter to what the manga has? You know how many images of Sasuke and Sakura pictures are of Sasuke hoisting her up with a smile on his face and acting all giddty? Meanwhile in the canon manga, Sasuke is seen walking away with Sakura disappointed.

For a group of people that say "accept the canon" they do everything, but  "accept the canon."

Bold: That is my excuse for the SNS affair and the SK affair as well. "Just becaus it doesn't happen on panel doesn't mean it does not happen." The absense of the evidence is not evidence of absence.

Of course, the fandom is like this:

Sasuke: *Breaths* 

SS shipper: Did you SEE that? DID YOU? He inhaled O2 AND exhaled COat an approximately normal rate around s a k u r a which indicates that his mood was NOT necessarily negatively elevated, as would be demonstrated by an increased rate of respiration, and so he is most likely not angered by her presence which means he’s LITERALLY in love with her ohmygod sasusaku is GOALS when will i find the sasuke to my sakura


Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 January 2018 - 09:43 PM.

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#16 jak123

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 04:38 PM

 

No, not strange at all. Even Analyzer couldn't give an answer for that one. If the ending is so perfect, why are people still making fanfictions and fanart that are counter to what the manga has? You know how many images of Sasuke and Sakura pictures are of Sasuke hoisting her up with a smile on his face and acting all giddty? Meanwhile in the canon manga, Sasuke is seen walking away with Sakura disappointed.

For a group of people that say "accept the canon" they do everything, but  "accept the canon."

Bold: That is my excuse for the SNS affair and the SK affair as well. "Just becaus it doesn't happen on panel doesn't mean it does not happen." The absense of the evidence is not evidence of absence.

Of course, the fandom is like this:

Sasuke: *Breaths* 

SS shipper: Did you SEE that? DID YOU? He inhaled O2 AND exhaled COat an approximately normal rate around s a k u r a which indicates that his mood was NOT necessarily negatively elevated, as would be demonstrated by an increased rate of respiration, and so he is most likely not angered by her presence which means he’s LITERALLY in love with her ohmygod sasusaku is GOALS when will i find the sasuke to my sakura

 

Sasuke is super neglectful to his wife and daughter. Sakura is a hollow shell of her former self. When she does interact with Sasuke, it's her giggly shallow crush that she had in part 1. Not genuine love for her husband.



#17 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 05:53 PM

Sasuke is super neglectful to his wife and daughter. Sakura is a hollow shell of her former self. When she does interact with Sasuke, it's her giggly shallow crush that she had in part 1. Not genuine love for her husband.

 

Yeah, while Hinata still is the same, stuff as if she's in amber rather than having grown at all while the Boruto anime keeps adding stuff to her to make it justified she and Naruto were put together, and Naruto has lost so much of what's made him him that it is no wonder people in Japan have called him "the biggest scumbag" over the ending.



#18 jak123

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:20 PM

 no wonder people in Japan have called him "the biggest scumbag" over the ending.

Seriously?

 

It makes me wonder. How did Japan take the ending overall?


Edited by jak123, 04 February 2018 - 08:20 PM.


#19 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:33 PM

Seriously?

 

It makes me wonder. How did Japan take the ending overall?

 

From what I've heard, a lot of people wanted refunds for The Last after finding out what it literally was about when seeing it, but Studio Pierrot wouldn't give them refunds, as well as many of the community there, outside of the minority of NaruHina fans, were generally pissed off. That's at least near as I can tell, Jak, but all in all, the fans in Japan were pretty pissed about the ending and how Kishimoto had tried to justify the ending, like saying Sakura would be a terrible woman if she went with Naruto and gave up on Sasuke (which is hypocritical, since what does that make INO!?), and how they feel the idea of Naruto supposedly loving Sakura due to his rivalry with Sasuke being a reason why he is called the biggest scumbag, because he basically lied to them.



#20 DrK

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:11 PM

how Kishimoto had tried to justify the ending, like saying Sakura would be a terrible woman if she went with Naruto and gave up on Sasuke (which is hypocritical, since what does that make INO!?)

I'm pretty sure that the meaning was actually that Sakura would be a terrible woman for giving up on Sasuke, because he was redeemed and he needs to be rewarded for that. If I'm right, then it's not hypocritical. It's just despicable.


Edited by DrK, 04 February 2018 - 09:12 PM.





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